No update tonight, things came up so I didn't end up working for most of the evening, so don't have enough time to finish before I will make myself go to bed.

But yes, the Urban Poor rolled quite well on their quest again, so their desires this time are:

Have 5 Free Cities within 3 turns. Reward: Free Social Value slot
 
No update tonight, things came up so I didn't end up working for most of the evening, so don't have enough time to finish before I will make myself go to bed.

But yes, the Urban Poor rolled quite well on their quest again, so their desires this time are:

Have 5 Free Cities within 3 turns. Reward: Free Social Value slot
5 free cities? o_O i can't tell whether that's supposed to hint to us that its safe to do so, or if my instinct to avoid that many semi independent powerful cities is right...

Also, on the off chance you have enough time for answering questions if not for an update, and wish to do so (rather than, say, playing mario odyssey like i'll probably be doing in the last bit before i go to bed myself :p):

-Periphery Count is off, should be 13
-Not sure where the -1 econ per turn expense comes from, since our city support policy covers the free city's expenses fully?
-All the action sheet errors i mentioned in this post: Paths of Civilization(Also, since i think i forgot it in that post, the gymnasium action lists the wrong bonuses)

-1 What exactly were the enclaves doing wrong farming wise?
-2 Are the Storm People going to the Games? Either way, Western Ymaryn is still listed on the megaprojects listing
-3 Do the Storm People still have PiA?
-4 Since there was some debate on it earlier, is it north-south or east-west, and what exactly would the boundary passage do for us? Would it improve travel between the core and our eastern holdings?
-5 Should we have a march target above the provinces we integrated from teh western wall? I'd thought you said we would have one, but i might be misremembering?
-6 When the traders ability says it lets them add or subtract from innovation rolls, is that just that if their power is negative we get a malus, or can they suppress innovations they don't like? If so, what kind of thing would they suppress? I get the guilds suppressing competing tech, but wouldn't the traders want to have tech that outcompetes existing stuff, to get one over on other traders?
-7 Is it intentional that the trelli are still on teh trade sheet, albeit crossed out, since you've already removed the Mountain Horse?
 
Okay, so we have 3 Free Cities now

These,
-Valleyhome [Capital, Palace, Aqueduct, Baths, Market, Sig. Walls] (20 EE Threshold)
-Blackmouth [Aqueduct, Baths, Governor's Palace, Sig. Walls] (20 EE Threshold)
-Sacred Forest [Aqueduct, Baths, Sig. Walls] (18 EE Threshold)
-Stallion Pen [Aqueduct, Mass. Walls] (14 EE Threshold)
-Lower Valleyhome [Aqueduct] (8 EE Threshold)

are our possible cities, with Valleyhome, Blackmouth, and Sacred Forest coming back this turn. Stallion Pen is a maybe.

Valleyhome and Sacred Forest are a definite no. The others... depend on somehow getting our Economic Expansion Slots low enough...

:/

...yeah, let us just see what comes out next update.
 
I'm thinking that our next two free cities should be Blackmouth and Lower Valleyhome. Once we have the Dam and Canal completed, Valleyhome and Sacred Forest should have blockhousing unlocked.
 
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Who runs the free cities, anyway? I mean, by nature of them being "free," I doubt it's appointed governors... Are they run by a mayor or a local patrician or something?
 
I'm thinking that our next two free cities should be Blackmouth and Lower Valleyguard. Once we have the Dam and Canal completed, Valleyhome and Sacred Forest should have blockhousing unlocked.
Problem is getting our Expansion Slots low enough. As is, we can get a full tank of Economy and still not be low enough
Who runs the free cities, anyway? I mean, by nature of them being "free," I doubt it's appointed governors... Are they run by a mayor or a local patrician or something?
I was under the impression that they were like our provinces, but at a much smaller scale. So yes a Patrician.
 
No update tonight, things came up so I didn't end up working for most of the evening, so don't have enough time to finish before I will make myself go to bed.

But yes, the Urban Poor rolled quite well on their quest again, so their desires this time are:

Have 5 Free Cities within 3 turns. Reward: Free Social Value slot
why do they always want free cities?? Stop trying to make us become a merchant federation.
 
Who runs the free cities, anyway? I mean, by nature of them being "free," I doubt it's appointed governors... Are they run by a mayor or a local patrician or something?
It's mentioned in one of the earlier updates, but they are run by mayors.
They essentially self govern, in that there's a bunch of corruption within the city, but the Mayor keep the corruption or any blatant signs of it from spilling out of the city, thus keeping any administrative headaches from us.

I assume that the more the "trouble" meter builds up, the more blatant the corruption gets.
 
why do they always want free cities?? Stop trying to make us become a merchant federation.
I mean, merchants aren't inherently bad... they just tend to be greedy and shortsighted and can destabilize entire economies and tend to start large fires whenever they feel they need to throw a tantrum. But that's most people in a position of power!
 
-Periphery Count is off, should be 13
-Not sure where the -1 econ per turn expense comes from, since our city support policy covers the free city's expenses fully?
-All the action sheet errors i mentioned in this post: Paths of Civilization(Also, since i think i forgot it in that post, the gymnasium action lists the wrong bonuses)

-Will correct.
-Looking over the math, that is correct.
-I will revise the actions next time they come up, so I will keep that in mind.

-1 What exactly were the enclaves doing wrong farming wise?
-2 Are the Storm People going to the Games? Either way, Western Ymaryn is still listed on the megaprojects listing
-3 Do the Storm People still have PiA?
-4 Since there was some debate on it earlier, is it north-south or east-west, and what exactly would the boundary passage do for us? Would it improve travel between the core and our eastern holdings?
-5 Should we have a march target above the provinces we integrated from teh western wall? I'd thought you said we would have one, but i might be misremembering?
-6 When the traders ability says it lets them add or subtract from innovation rolls, is that just that if their power is negative we get a malus, or can they suppress innovations they don't like? If so, what kind of thing would they suppress? I get the guilds suppressing competing tech, but wouldn't the traders want to have tech that outcompetes existing stuff, to get one over on other traders?
-7 Is it intentional that the trelli are still on teh trade sheet, albeit crossed out, since you've already removed the Mountain Horse?

1. Lots of little things. It was stuff like improper trash disposal so they weren't really generating Black Soil the way they should, not leaving fields fallow correctly, ploughing too early in the season, not planting soil stabilizing species around irrigation ditches, not shoring up irrigation ditches properly, etc., etc. Basically a hundred little to moderate things, plus not properly giving offerings and prayers to the spirits.
2. Yes, will correct now that you have their name.
3. Downgraded, but still Econ drainers.
4. The boundary passage offers increased strategic mobility against the steppes or someone pushing up from the south. You could mass your logistics on one side of the boundary hills and then push through from a direction other than the obvious natural passes. It would also improve connectivity and trade.
5. That's probably correct. If I don't include it next time, ping me again.
6. After rolling out this turn, I am adjusting it slightly, but basically if you cater to the traders they will add their faction power modifier to innovation rolls, where if you suppress them it will tank your innovation. Basically I'm sort of comparing pre-modern Western European and Islamic merchants and Sino-Sphere merchants. The former were more respected in their societies, and a lot of major technological innovations were fueled by demands for trade and seafaring and the ability to protect trade (the merchants were also huge dicks), where in China and related countries they were more looked down upon, and there was a distinct divergence. How these societies treated their merchant classes is obviously not the whole story, but it's a bit of a finger on the scales of society either way.
7. Mistake/IC out of date info, will redo after the next update as trade begins to resume

Who runs the free cities, anyway? I mean, by nature of them being "free," I doubt it's appointed governors... Are they run by a mayor or a local patrician or something?

Local elites. Basically the mayor is a mini-governor with a mandate to keep the population in-line and local tracts of land to assist with the feeding of them all.
 
Anything that gets us closer to Noblesse Oblige gets my vote. I just really like the idea of having someone in a greater position of power actually caring for the people. If we do manage that, then I would go all out for increasing the Aristocratic class if they drilled that into their people...

Would you be interested in feudalism good sir?

The problem is that nobility honour codes, chivalry etc were all about behaviour within that upper class. Chivalry was all about respecting other noblemen; what you did with lowly peasants nobody cared about. That means just having a honour code with obligations for the nobility isn't enough and might even be counterproductive.

There where quite a few codes in regards to behaviour towards the lower classes. Religion inspired codes true, but so was everything at the time.

The peace and truce of God comes to mind. Also the client-patron obligations, and quite a few fuedal structures had codes on being a good master and such.
Especially where the well being of the underclass reflected the status of the upperclass ( " I am so mighty my peasants are richer than that nobleman three villages over" mentality)

No update tonight, things came up so I didn't end up working for most of the evening, so don't have enough time to finish before I will make myself go to bed.

But yes, the Urban Poor rolled quite well on their quest again, so their desires this time are:

Have 5 Free Cities within 3 turns. Reward: Free Social Value slot

Localised governance, reduction of central buecracy, and slots.
I would be crying tears of joy if I didn't have an awful suspicion that the reds would never allow such a thing to pass.
 
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@Academia Nut Updated stat calcs:

Diplo 24
+0.5 (Disrupted KotH)
+1.5 (Disrupted Games)
+[1-2] (Trade Mission)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
Total: [25-26]

Intrigue 6
-1 (Hunt Troublemakers)
Total: 5

Econ 15
+4 (Colony Taxes)
+18 (Expand Econs)
+1 (New Settlement)
-0 (Cities)
-2 (Great Dam)
-2 (Great Hall)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
-3 (Plant Poppies)
-4 (Expand Snail Cultivations)
-1 (Build Glassworks)
Total: 24

Used Forests 29 {36}
+1 (Build Glassworks)
+{1} (Build Glassworks)
Total: 30 {37}

Available Forests 34

EE 24
-18 (Expand Econs)
-4 (Colony Taxes)
-3 (Plant Poppies)
+3 (New Settlement)
+2 (GD Refund)
+2 (GH Refund)
+2 (IS Refund)
+2 (PP Refund)
+3 (ESC Refunds)
+1 (BG Refund)
Total: 14

Martial 7
Light Cav 3
Naval 1

Wealth 4
+1 (Income/Expenses)
+1 (Efficient Economy)
+7 (Plant Poppies)
+4 (Expand Snail Cultivations)
+1 (Build Glassworks)
-2 (Trade Mission)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
Total: 14

Culture 16
+3 (Free Cities)
+1 (Games + Cities)
-2 (Great Hall)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
+2 (Expand Snail Cultivations)
+2 (Build Glassworks)
Subtotal: 20
+10 (Overflow from Mysticism)
-3 (Overflow to Tech)
Total: 27

Mysticism 25 (+9)
+9 (Pending)
+3 (Temples)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
+1 (Plant Poppies)
+1 (New Settlement)
Subtotal: 37
-10 (Overflow to Culture)
Subtotal: 27
+(+2) (IS Refund)
Total: 27 (+2)

Tech 24
+2 (Pending)
+1 (Arsenals)
-1 (City Support)
-6 (Expand Econs)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
-2 (Build Glassworks)
Subtotal: 16
+3 (Overflow from Culture)
Subtotal: 19
+(+1) (CS Refund)
+(+3) (EE Refunds)
+(+1) (IS Refund)
+(+1) (BG Refund)
Total: 19 (+6)

Prestige 98
+1 (Grand Bazaar)
+[0-4] (Games)
Total: [99-103]

Stab 3
Wealth above 10, below 20, no change

Legit 4

Cent 7

RA 7 {9}
Summary:
Diplo [25-26]
Intrigue 5
Econ 24
Forests 30 {37} 34
EE 14
Martial 7
Light Cav 3
Naval 1
Wealth 14

Culture 27
Mysticism 27 (+2)
Tech 19 (+6)
Prestige [99-103]

Stab 3
Legit 4

Cent 7
RA 7 {9}

For everyone to compare it to.

Possible Reactions this Turn:

1) Make a Free City - Progress toward our Urban Poor quest and gives us an additional culture drip and an AI passive policy.
2) Main Action Great Hall Annex - Gives us 3/4 progress, allowing us to complete next turn.
3) Great Dam progress - Allows us to guarantee the completion of the megaproject next turn if we switch to Megaproject Support and do a Main Dam.
4) Sec raise army + Sec Found March - Finish the March allows us to worry about something else.
5) Trade Mission - Continue diplomacy, probably at Forhurch.
6) Build Roads - Progress toward our connectivity count.
7) <trouble placeholder action here> - Deal with whatever problem that Hunt Troublemakers uncovered.

Possible PSN actions we may want to take.
1) Plant Cotton/Poppies - continue our effort at increasing our trade dominance and provide additional wealth.
2) Expand Econ - Ensure that we have enough econ next turn that we won't cripple ourselves.
3) Expand Forest - Make up for our lack of forestry policies and give us a positive LTE.

@Academia Nut If we overflow the Dam megaproject progress, can that automatically go into the canal that we're probably going to start ASAP anyway?
 
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Many thanks for the answers, AN :)
1. Lots of little things. It was stuff like improper trash disposal so they weren't really generating Black Soil the way they should, not leaving fields fallow correctly, ploughing too early in the season, not planting soil stabilizing species around irrigation ditches, not shoring up irrigation ditches properly, etc., etc. Basically a hundred little to moderate things, plus not properly giving offerings and prayers to the spirits.
I'm sure there are a whole litany of innuendos the People could and probably did make about all this, as part of their diatribes against the enclaves...and hell, after the whole "the governor fucked up, the enclaves are just People who weren't told what to do" bit, i'm sure they just continued with the punchline being targeted at officials not doing their jobs, not heretics metaphorically raping the earth :p
 

Localised governance of major centers fits rather well with parliament however. And it condenses the people that the crown needs to influence via the high court to a smaller figure.

Not to mention all the mechanics benefits. (policies and actions)

And best of all, it'll finally put a fire under the thread's ass to stop chasing glimmers and spend a good few turns on bringing infrastructure to good shape.

Might even become a national myth : how king X was the first to connect Ymar by rediscovering the concept of roads and temples.

None of our kings had the moniker of builder or road builder or X builder afterall.
 
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If the Social Value is something that helps manage free cities...:p
Generally the one attatched to PiA will go in the free slot if compatible.
Division of Power (PiA Linked)
By preventing the accumulation of power into any single person or faction, the damage of someone throwing a tantrum is mitigated... although it also makes breaking up widespread support harder.
Pros: Faction quest failures have a free negation, requiring two completed quests or Support Faction actions to reset. Unsuppressible failure states become Suppressible
Cons: Addition -1 Stability when suppressing factions
As this is a social value, it would fill the slot, then we will have the option to get another one from one of our neighbors.
 
I am sure that nothing will go wrong with reintegrating Free Cities. <sarcasm/>

As for reactions, I am leaning toward another progress for the damn Dam for shinny chaser in me. But I am seeing secondary march and secondary raise army as crucial to protecting the lowland.
 
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