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Paths of Civilization

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BungieONI said:
Welll I dunno. If we keep the record up through to the modern era, Ymaryn historians may just take it as a fact of life, aside from various possible pieces of evidence.
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It is part of the Ymaryn's character as a paranoid people.

You have to ask yourself: why did they build all that granaries and fortifications, if they never saw the apparent need for it? You know, investments that never seemed to pay off until the Horse's Plague.
 
George said:
I completely disagree. We have charcoal demand, so we construct more efficient kilns to take care of the demand with fewer forests. This is not, at all, 'pure mechanical manipulation' it is the effect of technology on our fuel needs. Please explain to me how this does not make sense.

Also, please read the post I responded to and note that it only mentioned keeping up with demand, so that was all that I addressed.
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It's pretty obvious how it doesn't make sense. You can't continually just make more kilns and hope the increase in efficiency will offset the demand for wood. At some point you are going to need more wood to actually feed into the kiln. Personally, I would rather not even worry about that eventuality and just put a couple policies into forests. We have five four slots open currently and that can be used rediculously fast. I would much rather not have to count on the ability to Main a kiln or expand forest if we find ourselves in a pinch.

The other policy possibilities simply aren't as necessary.
 
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Well our core is ALOT harder to hit than any other great Civ, I mean the closest body of water is a almost completely enclosed sea, and the capital doesn't even border it
 
pbluekan said:
It's pretty obvious how it doesn't make sense. You can't continually just make more kilns and hope the increase in efficiency will offset the demand for wood. At some point you are going to need more wood to actually feed into the kiln. Personally, I would rather not even worry about that eventuality and just put a couple policies into forests. We have five four slots open currently and that can be used rediculously fast. I would much rather not have to count on the ability to Main a kiln or expand forest if we find ourselves in a pinch.

The other policy possibilities simply aren't as necessary.
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I don't see why you thought I meant forever. We have enough real forests for 9 more Mains worth of kilns, and I'm in favor of using kilns rather than passive policies for 2-5 turns while we go for the government upgrade, with an eye towards using a repeated Expand Forest action after that, because I want to take advantage of how our Study Forest action was integrated into that to not just plant more forests but learn about them too. I want our people to actually think about and understand their forests, not just expand them for charcoal, and the best way I know of to get there is to manage our resources towards getting that government upgrade then using the action rather than the passive policy.

I disagree about the necessity of other policy possibilities. Defence is necessary due to the nomad threat; walls are a big deal there. Vassal Support is necessary due to the critically bad cultural divergence and loyalty issues with our colonies. Infrastructure is necessary due to the insistent demands of our factions. City Support is necessary because, as people have remarked, we are extremely urbanized for our era and feeding those cities is very difficult.
 
@Academia Nut Updated stat calcs:

Diplo 24
+0.5 (Disrupted KotH)
+1.5 (Disrupted Games)
+[1-2] (Trade Mission)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
Total: [25-26]

Intrigue 6
-1 (Hunt Troublemakers)
Total: 5

Econ 15
+4 (Colony Taxes)
+18 (Expand Econs)
+1 (New Settlement)
-0 (Cities)
-2 (Great Dam)
-2 (Great Hall)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
-3 (Plant Poppies)
-4 (Expand Snail Cultivations)
-1 (Build Glassworks)
Total: 24

Used Forests 29 {36}
+1 (Build Glassworks)
+{1} (Build Glassworks)
Total: 30 {37}

Available Forests 34

EE 24
-18 (Expand Econs)
-4 (Colony Taxes)
-3 (Plant Poppies)
+3 (New Settlement)
+2 (GD Refund)
+2 (GH Refund)
+2 (IS Refund)
+2 (PP Refund)
+3 (ESC Refunds)
+1 (BG Refund)
Total: 14

Martial 7
Light Cav 3
Naval 1

Wealth 4
+1 (Income/Expenses)
+1 (Efficient Economy)
+7 (Plant Poppies)
+4 (Expand Snail Cultivations)
+1 (Build Glassworks)
-2 (Trade Mission)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
Total: 14

Culture 16
+3 (Free Cities)
+1 (Games + Cities)
-2 (Great Hall)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
+2 (Expand Snail Cultivations)
+2 (Build Glassworks)
Subtotal: 20
+10 (Overflow from Mysticism)
-3 (Overflow to Tech)
Total: 27

Mysticism 25 (+9)
+9 (Pending)
+3 (Temples)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
+1 (Plant Poppies)
+1 (New Settlement)
Subtotal: 37
-10 (Overflow to Culture)
Subtotal: 27
+(+2) (IS Refund)
Total: 27 (+2)

Tech 24
+2 (Pending)
+1 (Arsenals)
-1 (City Support)
-6 (Expand Econs)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
-2 (Build Glassworks)
Subtotal: 16
+3 (Overflow from Culture)
Subtotal: 19
+(+1) (CS Refund)
+(+3) (EE Refunds)
+(+1) (IS Refund)
+(+1) (BG Refund)
Total: 19 (+6)

Prestige 98
+1 (Grand Bazaar)
+[0-4] (Games)
Total: [99-103]

Stab 3
Wealth above 10, below 20, no change

Legit 4

Cent 7

RA 7 {9}
Summary:
Diplo [25-26]
Intrigue 5
Econ 24
Forests 30 {37} 34
EE 14
Martial 7
Light Cav 3
Naval 1
Wealth 14

Culture 27
Mysticism 27 (+2)
Tech 19 (+6)
Prestige [99-103]

Stab 3
Legit 4

Cent 7
RA 7 {9}

@PrimalShadow pointed out in a conversation that i missed the efficient economy bonus wealth like i always do :p
Assumptions made:
-The -1 econ/+1 EE on the per turn income is a typo, since our city expenses are fully covered and i'm not sure what else would be causing that expense
-Our trade power for poppies is supposed to still be significant, not leading. (otherwise +1 wealth
-Amber road isn't in contact enough to serve as a gold/salt support yet (otherwise +1 wealth)

@BungieONI can you do a stat calc yourself and compare it to mine, or at least check mine again, please? Primal wont be doing his usual stat calc to compare with mine this time. Same goes for anyone willing
 
Sivantic said:
Priest 3: HERESY! Fythagyna shall go nude as her status demands!

Because never forget the Theology debates :p
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Priest 4: "The One True God is the most beautiful!"

Priest 1, 2 & 3: "..."

ctulhuslp said:
Because I am sure they are thinking of hills in such terms, at least the younger ones.
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We even have proof of this in the Goddess Macra of the Highlanders.

Abby Normal said:
@Academia Nut Updated stat calcs:

Diplo 24
+0.5 (Disrupted KotH)
+1.5 (Disrupted Games)
+[1-2] (Trade Mission)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
Total: [25-26]

Intrigue 6
-1 (Hunt Troublemakers)
Total: 5

Econ 15
+4 (Colony Taxes)
+18 (Expand Econs)
+1 (New Settlement)
-0 (Cities)
-2 (Great Dam)
-2 (Great Hall)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
-3 (Plant Poppies)
-4 (Expand Snail Cultivations)
-1 (Build Glassworks)
Total: 24

Used Forests 29 {36}
+1 (Build Glassworks)
+{1} (Build Glassworks)
Total: 30 {37}

Available Forests 34

EE 24
-18 (Expand Econs)
-4 (Colony Taxes)
-3 (Plant Poppies)
+3 (New Settlement)
+2 (GD Refund)
+2 (GH Refund)
+2 (IS Refund)
+2 (PP Refund)
+3 (ESC Refunds)
+1 (BG Refund)
Total: 14

Martial 7
Light Cav 3
Naval 1

Wealth 4
+1 (Income/Expenses)
+1 (Efficient Economy)
+7 (Plant Poppies)
+4 (Expand Snail Cultivations)
+1 (Build Glassworks)
-2 (Trade Mission)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
Total: 14

Culture 16
+3 (Free Cities)
+1 (Games + Cities)
-2 (Great Hall)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
+2 (Expand Snail Cultivations)
+2 (Build Glassworks)
Subtotal: 20
+10 (Overflow from Mysticism)
-3 (Overflow to Tech)
Total: 27

Mysticism 25 (+9)
+9 (Pending)
+3 (Temples)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
+1 (Plant Poppies)
+1 (New Settlement)
Subtotal: 37
-10 (Overflow to Culture)
Subtotal: 27
+(+2) (IS Refund)
Total: 27 (+2)

Tech 24
+2 (Pending)
+1 (Arsenals)
-1 (City Support)
-6 (Expand Econs)
-2 (Influence Subordinate)
-2 (Build Glassworks)
Subtotal: 16
+3 (Overflow from Culture)
Subtotal: 19
+(+1) (CS Refund)
+(+3) (EE Refunds)
+(+1) (IS Refund)
+(+1) (BG Refund)
Total: 19 (+6)

Prestige 98
+1 (Grand Bazaar)
+[0-4] (Games)
Total: [99-103]

Stab 3
Wealth above 10, below 20, no change

Legit 4

Cent 7

RA 7 {9}
Summary:
Diplo [25-26]
Intrigue 5
Econ 24
Forests 30 {37} 34
EE 14
Martial 7
Light Cav 3
Naval 1
Wealth 14

Culture 27
Mysticism 27 (+2)
Tech 19 (+6)
Prestige [99-103]

Stab 3
Legit 4

Cent 7
RA 7 {9}

@PrimalShadow pointed out in a conversation that i missed the efficient economy bonus wealth like i always do :p
Assumptions made:
-The -1 econ/+1 EE on the per turn income is a typo, since our city expenses are fully covered and i'm not sure what else would be causing that expense
-Our trade power for poppies is supposed to still be significant, not leading. (otherwise +1 wealth
-Amber road isn't in contact enough to serve as a gold/salt support yet (otherwise +1 wealth)

@BungieONI can you do a stat calc yourself and compare it to mine, or at least check mine again, please? Primal wont be doing his usual stat calc to compare with mine this time. Same goes for anyone willing
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Will do!
 
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