maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Flat is justice.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Flat is justice.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
@Abby Normal okay I've gone over the math thrice and I think it checks out.
Of note:
We bounce off of -1 Expansion. Not sure what that will do, we have a tolerance of -4.
We hit 0 Wealth for a second.
Is the Games prestige pool 3 or 4?
Of note:
We bounce off of -1 Expansion. Not sure what that will do, we have a tolerance of -4.
We hit 0 Wealth for a second.
Is the Games prestige pool 3 or 4?
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This is the problem with your idea. It's very nice, and I've championed this action since it became available, but the fact is, it isn't something the thread will ever go for.
They haven't for ages, and it isn't unlikely to change. Especially when we would have to pretty much dedicate a main every turn or every other turn to just meet demand. Can you guarantee that the thread will always choose that action? Can you guarantee that there won't be some emergency which pops up and demands our attention? I'm sure the thread would take the action if it were necessary, but it just isn't always possible. If we fall behind it is extremely unlikely that we will catch up, and I don't think we would like what comes out of that bag.
Sustainable Forests is a critical resource. It's our equivalent of oil. Steady, reliable, production is key for that kind of resource because falling behind is just not in the cards.
Edit: The reason I assumed you were thinking forever is because people are generally shortsighted, myself included. Sorry about that.
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Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Flatlands are infertile dustbowls waiting to happen, only bountiful hills are capable of providing all the sustenance that the People need to grow big and strong.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
He's talking about a possible new mechanic AN has mentioned introducing where we donate one of our player actions and then it gets doubled in efficiency while doing one thing. Sec's become Mains, Mains become Double Mains. It comes with the Gov Upgrade.
Forests are incredibly important, but it's not a problem to go over the limit for a turn or (at most) two. If we maintain a minimum forest buffer of 2 there isn't much that will put us over immediately and if we do get pushed over, we lose what, half a forest or so? A loss yes, but not a critical one. Unless we let it lie for multiple turns at least. Doing that would be bad.
If the only risk of running with a low forest buffer is that if we get hit by an unexpected demand and simultaneously a crisis then we start facing easily-stoppable long-term penalties, I see no reason to not keep our buffer low.
Now, we've seen that forests are very useful, and as more things unlock more things might start eating away that buffer faster. It'd be nice to have a larger buffer, just there's a lot more worthwhile things we could do than make one of our stats extra-safe.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well, it's not a crisis, but I definitely agree that it will cause some erosion to values, and we can't quite be certain that we don't have values we're close to losing.
- Location
- Hell
Yes.
Yes, it very much is.
We do not want the people to question the necessity of having a buffer. They do not have the know how to be able to prove it. This is something you do not want them to question.
- Location
- Canada
Saying Ashryn put the world on notice!
- Location
- indeterminate, possibly non-existent
- Pronouns
- Any
The main problem isn't that going over our forest limit might erode a forest or two, it's that a lot of people might go "we logged more than the priest said we should and nothing happened, the gods didn't punish us, so why don't we keep logging that much, the priests must be lying about needing to limit how much we cut, it's not like we could really cut down all our forests" and causing all sorts of problems on top of potentially eroding our values
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Even if we suddenly went full hardcore Roman Cutting, we would still be better off than RL, because we kept such a large quantity of forests and such for so long.
As long as the immediate response to a loss in sustainable forests (due to being over the limit) is an immediate program to get more forests, that's more likely to reinforce our love of forests than harm it.
Also, we have relatively high RA. That makes us resistant to just randomly losing it.
Furthermore, we know both IC and OOC that going over the limit causes the forests to start shrinking. As long as we respond when the outcry is raised, why would the value take damage?
- Location
- United States
I don't want to just be better off than RL.
I want for us to forever have a forest buffer, and for us to never have to worry about deforestation in the first place.
People have been saying the benefits of having a ton of forests for the past several thousand pages, so I don't think I need to mention their importance, both as forests themselves and how they are represented in our values as not rampantly consuming more than can be renewed.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
would rather keep a "plant lots of trees" religion into the modern day, given our modern ooc knowledge
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Especially not with PK churning around.
Imagine some patricians or even worse some priests questioning it?
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Flatlands are breadbaskets that gave birth to civilisation.
Hills are a sore of interest only to beasts and insects, presuming they are not rocky arid wastes. And fertile ones are an artifical, uneven over exaggerated travesty that is a testament of survival despite the odds rather than thriving, and a monuments of how far one can sink before admitting defeat.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Because while we can see the issue, the characters can't. What I am concerned about is it that we would set our selves up for a hidden issue, which yes we may be able to solve with immediately doing more forests, but the act of asking that question would be in our people's minds and it wouldn't go away by just making more. It'd be like the monotheists bad farming practice, but worse in the long run, because it is harder to spot.
- Location
- United States
You do know the Ymaryn made their living off of turning Hills into Fertile Bounties, right?
I would say that the Ymaryn rised, rather than sunk.
- Location
- Hell
Except that is not a point we want to reach in the first place.
The hills have kept Ymaryn safe since time immemorable. The flatlands have been horrible, blood-besotted death traps that give rise to disease and locusts.
Hills have given us full bounty and protection.
Marginal area often overtake their bigger well fed cousins, just like the Ymaryn had done to the Xohyr and the lowland, because we had to overcome the problem of soil infertility, had to move heaven and earth to get the hills working like we want, and all sort of challenges that gave us an advantage over our competitors.
This is a historical pattern that repeated over and over again. We do well to heed its lesson.
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Let them ask. Testing these things is a foundation of our religion. We have the tools and infrastructure to perform those tests now without risking failure. So long as we keep records for multiple generations, the results will be obvious. IC the stats represent the reports the king is receiving. That means we know how to measure our forests. If we start letting them die for no good reason it'd be a risk.
Agreed, but how important is it? Via passives, each forest is worth 4 progress in infrastructure. That's more than an entire project. A baths that could prevent the next plague, or we could get continuous per-turn market income. Forests are important and we don't want to be over the limit for long, but that's no need to have an obsessive need for 5+ free forests at all times.
- Location
- indeterminate, possibly non-existent
- Pronouns
- Any
It will, at best, take multiple generations before we can see the negative effects of over-logging, which is more than enough time to cause massive trouble. Going over our forest cap could potentially be disastrous.
- Location
- Hell
Important enough to never reach that point. Sure we may be more comfortable having a 5+ forest buffer, but that does not mean we are at all comfortable with letting it pass the threshold. We run out of buffer, we are using a secondary or more to regain it. No questions.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, we really shouldn't be letting the forest buffer run out. Of course, i also think we would be better off using Repeated Actions, provided the changes aren't quite as big a nerf as one of the possibilities AN laid out (the one where we get half as many actions, and have to take Invested Action to us repeated, so we'd have to give up literally half of our actions to get a single repeated action)
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
And so Ymar are no longer the marginal.
The time of plains and gentle slopes is nigh!