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Paths of Civilization

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No7sHere said:
Honestly having an extremely competitive and cut throat noble class is actually a fairly good thing as it does ensure that only the competent are able to maintain their power which is honestly the closest we're going to get to a true meritocracy for a very long time.
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Yeah I'm fine with the social mobility in that sector, but I don't see enough mechanisms to go from illiterate parents to literacy, which is a huge problem.
 
No7sHere said:
Honestly having an extremely competitive and cut throat noble class is actually a fairly good thing as it does ensure that only the competent are able to maintain their power which is honestly the closest we're going to get to a true meritocracy for a very long time.
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Mostly eliminate the truly incompetent. Since our Kings are generally average in all skills, they are also better than average.
 
Academia Nut said:
patricians absolutely hoard access to literacy via the charge of "Wasting Resources"...

local council authority to appoint leaders is more of a process of picking from the sons in a small family than lifting up the truly most worthy member of the community...

few who aren't literate know that they can theoretically force the issue, so doing things that cause harm to the local nobility can easily get you killed
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AAAAAAAUGH GODDAMMIT. May the Devourer take every single one of these abusive subhuman shits.

DocMatoi said:
*Foaming at the mouth*
In-information longs to be free....
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Same.

Serious proposal: establish a system of roving town criers to explain these basics of the law to the rural folk?
 
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@Academia Nut , if we still do not get to choose actions with Admin Genius, could you post a new list of options, if there are changes? I assume there is Artisan Competition and Trails -> Roads in changelist, at least.
 
George said:
Yeah I'm fine with the social mobility in that sector, but I don't see enough mechanisms to go from illiterate parents to literacy, which is a huge problem.
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Short order public free education.

Unfortunately if you give it to a private enterprise it will eventually go to shit cause some greedy CEO wanted to increase their profit margins (see charter schools) so you give it to the government, better than nothing.
 
OliWhail said:
AAAAAAAUGH GODDAMMIT. May the Devourer take every single one of these abusive subhuman shits.


Same.

Serious proposal: establish a system of roving town criers to explain these basics of the law to the rural folk?
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They'd need a substantial armed guard if they're going to go into a rural community and share laws the local powers don't want shared, which makes it a significant expense that somehow has to be justified IC to be given to us OOC.
Alex pears said:
Short order public free education.

Unfortunately if you give it to a private enterprise it will eventually go to shit cause some greedy CEO wanted to increase their profit margins (see charter schools) so you give it to the government, better than nothing.
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Luckily we don't truly have private enterprise. Can literally jail people for doing a poor job, as we've seen, so you have to do at least a decent job so your rivals don't have ammunition.
But yeah I envision a rural family bribing the people at a Gymnasium to take their son, then that son going back and teaching a later son of the family.
 
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Alex pears said:
stupidly
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Not stupidly. Dont assign meaning I didn't put there. Idealism isn't stupidity, it's idealism.

Half of this thread is foaming at the mouth over the injustices committed and the hoarding of knowledge. The idea that these things wouldn't be happening is just as idealistic, and just as improbable, IMO, as @maximillian 's vision of feudalism. It's a nice idea and something to strive for. (Not feudalism)
 
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Alex pears said:
On the other hand indoctrination can back fire in isolated areas so who knows.

Eh, lets build the blasted gymnasiums first.


Thank you now convince me we can not blunder into those same flaws and contradictions if not make our own? (In all fairness though thanks. I will however respectfully disagree save for the English Feudalism which was ok, but that was mostly due to the countries small size)


The one you just answered, I think one of us is either a head of the other or behind the other cause you responded to a post I made, but I thought you were responding to a different one I had made.


I haven't read the entire thread nor have I memorised it nor do I know where everything is.
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Well, we the players have the power of intervention and hindsight, as well as a wide range of techniques and concepts that can be applied to eliminate or smooth over the contradictions and flaws inherent in that system.
As for why that system in particular; its because it is the most flexible, most encompassing system, the amount of difference and irregularities it can contain is staggering. It is extremely cost efficient, it is also the closest a system can get to the protection of personal and even professional and organisational liberty. It also allows for representing as many strata as possible, as well as preventing tyranny by the devolving power.

And lastly it is because it's at the heart and center of romanticism.
 
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George said:
They'd need a substantial armed guard if they're going to go into a rural community and share laws the local powers don't want shared, which makes it a significant expense that somehow has to be justified IC to be given to us OOC.
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If we get our priests at it (love of Wisdom being a highly priestly valued... well, Value, for our religion) to rail against sabotaging spreading wisdom, we might actually get some push-back against the patricians that way.
 
ctulhuslp said:
@Academia Nut , if we still do not get to choose actions with Admin Genius, could you post a new list of options, if there are changes? I assume there is Artisan Competition and Trails -> Roads in changelist, at least.
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huh...i didnt even notice it said roads instead of trails... i think that its the same action and AN just forgot the wording like i do sometimes, but... @Academia Nut is there any difference in "Build Roads" vs "New Trails"?
 
No7sHere said:
Honestly having an extremely competitive and cut throat noble class is actually a fairly good thing as it does ensure that only the competent are able to maintain their power which is honestly the closest we're going to get to a true meritocracy for a very long time.
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I'm perfectly fine w/ them being competitive and cutthroat WITHIN THEMSELVES. But as soon as they're oppressing literacy and the opportunities for people below them to develop, no. That's just hampering the development of our people as a whole for petty, fear-based reasons.

@Alex pears Some charter schools are actually okay. The main issue is when they suck away students and thus funds from the free public schools around them which hampers education for those who can't afford the charter schools, as is happening in central LA.
 
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pbluekan said:
His vision of it is also a bit of an idealized dreamland where those in power don't abuse it mercilessly.

What we have is more similar to the Roman senate than anything else, let alone medieval feudalism.
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Indeed it is idealised, but again am not advocating exact historical feudalism, am advocating a modified version.

And speaking of power and abuse, am not the one advocating for giving ever more power to the state, am advocating having as little power as possible at each step of the ladder in fact.
 
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From what I'm seeing our biggest problems are inconsistency in the half exile system and a lack of education allowing the patricians to monopolize it, the first can be improved with better communication, the second through better education systems, both things we can start working on.
 
George said:
significant expense that somehow has to be justified IC to be given to us OOC.
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Genius clerk realizes things would go so much quicker if everyone knew the law, and they/their minions didn't have to explain things to every Freeman they had to talk to.
 
No7sHere said:
From what I'm seeing our biggest problems are inconsistency in the half exile system and a lack of education allowing the patricians to monopolize it, the first can be improved with better communication, the second through better education systems, both things we can start working on.
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roads are the solution to everything
 
pbluekan said:
Not stupidly. Dont assign meaning I didn't put there. Idealism isn't stupidity, it's idealism.

Half of this thread is foaming at the mouth over the injustices committed and the hoarding of knowledge. The idea that these things wouldn't be happening is just as idealistic, and just as improbable. It's a nice idea and something to strive for.
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Idealism is fantastic and it gives me the hope to get out of bed in the morning, but if they're really going to get foaming at this they need to get off the pride goggles and look at things objectively.

Are things good for everyone? God no and welcome to human past human present and human future.

Are things better than is usually imaginable at this stage... probably.

It's depressing, but as a Historian it really is, no major plagues, constant food, smaller amounts of racism as far as I can tell, a religion that isn't constantly bashing you over the head and a chance of moving up in society.

maximillian said:
As for why that system in particular; its because it is the most flexible, most encompassing system, the amount of difference and irregularities it can contain is staggering. It is extremely cost efficient, it is also the closest a system can get to the protection of personal and even professional and organisational liberty. It also allows for representing as many strata as possible.
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Which of course is why the only example of it I can think of off the top of my head is currently collapsing in flames ATM and the same can be said of almost any well done government... ya know before it gets really old.

I will also argue that an excellent dictator would be even better, but I'm far from believing that would ever happen.

maximillian said:
And lastly it is because it's at the heart and center of romanticism.
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:eyebrow: eeeerm, ok.

Not much to really say about that just go you...
 
Alex pears said:
Short order public free education.

Unfortunately if you give it to a private enterprise it will eventually go to shit cause some greedy CEO wanted to increase their profit margins (see charter schools) so you give it to the government, better than nothing.
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Yes because the government is a living saint and has nothing but the interest of the people at heart.....
 
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