BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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- Lickwidget
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- She/Her
We literally think they are magical and awesome. We are quite cool with them.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Whether this happens because they really think it is for the greater good of all initially or whether power has corrupted who knows.
I prefer to think both.
More importantly than that we have meta knowledge son
Most kingdoms don't have an omniscient hive mind telling it to go for certain shines or that this will work this won't cause reasons we're about 75% sure of.
Well that's one thing out of the way.We literally think they are magical and awesome. We are quite cool with them.
Now when Not Christianity forms lets make sure to keep them out of the way so they don't ruin that.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
misanthropy is self-protective but distance from the outside is difficult to maintain
so what
Anyways, more roads, more gymnasiums, more temples, more study actions, get paper somehow, etc.
It's basically just all tied into general progress.
Kind of more short-term worried about consolidating the outside tbh.
Nothing to do with assholes.Well duh
Humans are ass holes.
Humans back further in time are arguably bigger ass holes, but that's a whole nother rabbit mine, short answer is that humans tend to inherently trend towards greedy git.
Natural selection will favor organizations which acted to protect their own interests aggressively.
Natural selection will eliminate organizations which did not.
Like, the Patricians have people moving in and out of the caste at all because we went to a lot of effort to rig it so that every faction competed with every other faction.
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- Location
- BaWü
But only if one truly can't die other wise you surely die
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Gee a massive all powerful buecracy telling people what they can and cannot do in thier personal life and with thier own skills and knowledge, who would av thought...
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Eh, I don't need that ventricle, really.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Want another perspective? The only path we allow them in society is isolated from the rest of society. We have them run insane asylums and talk to the gods, but not to our sons and daughters.We literally think they are magical and awesome. We are quite cool with them.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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- ꙮ
feudalism is worse
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
The fact the two walk hand in hand is just window dressing really.
Not really.
This would have happened under feudalism too, in fact we have basically gone lite feudalism.
Not as strong as the real thing as the patrician's power doesn't seem to be in law and rather something they have to really bend the rules to do.
Unless of course you go full anarchy, but that doesn't work either.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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- Lickwidget
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- She/Her
Cause reasons is the best reason ever invented.
So much fun to be had!
Yeah they had a hand in that. So did a lot of others too, it's sorta a feature of certain types of cultures which ended up surviving to influence the western world.
It's kinda interesting isn't it, how you can take any particular piece of our system and then turn it around into a bad thing from a certain perspective.
Except for the trees. They just tree.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Depends on the kind of fuedalism, (the eastren branches where the only ones that could be described as dystopian)
There are several subsets in which you have a very great deal of personal liberty.
- Location
- Austria
We don't, really. Historical and socioeconomic forces do.
Screw Gulag Archipelago.
Hyacinthium
Writing about sad cannibals as we speak.
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- Bedroom
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- He/Him
So sheepman actually won even though he didn't win a single battle...
Dutch
Bored Spearman of the Wind
- Location
- CET
Short version?
Because LoA stimulates people into being the best and our Elites to be better. Early education is going to be a thing for the wealthy, elite and maybe later on upper middle class. There's just not going to be enough teachers to teach anyone else. Teachers need the time and money to be able to study. Our traits mean that they are going to be in high demand, which means that they are going to charge high fees. The rich are going to be able to pay those rates, giving them access to better education. This raises the standard non-elites need to adhere to in order to rise in status or be accepted amongst their supposed peers.
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Such as?
I mean I'm sure there are ones out there, but can you really give one that doesn't eventually devolve into the nobles oppressing the peasants like Russia, France, Germany ect. ect.?
Not all those countries had revolutions, but life was hardly nice.
Well we're doing it this time.
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Basically, while it is accelerating social stratification, Life of Arete is also keeping a high churn. Patricians that don't excel get torn apart, and either replenish themselves with ambitious up and comers or disintegrate. This does keep the patricians as a class on top since they naturally absorb the cream of other classes.
Also, while there is some downward pressure, having five or more surviving adult sons almost certainly means you have multiple wives which means you are at the top of the social structure. On the one hand this means that there are more opportunities to place lower order sons, but on the other hand if they are all trained equally well they will compete over the influence networks and fragment them, so not giving them full education in being a patrician is a survival mechanism.
Also, while there is some downward pressure, having five or more surviving adult sons almost certainly means you have multiple wives which means you are at the top of the social structure. On the one hand this means that there are more opportunities to place lower order sons, but on the other hand if they are all trained equally well they will compete over the influence networks and fragment them, so not giving them full education in being a patrician is a survival mechanism.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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- Lickwidget
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Ehh, sorta?
He has described us as redder than the USSR, and our system as is really conflicts with his vision of feudalism. But if you equate feudalism to hereditary, which is not totally accurate, then yes he sorta won.
Inevitable though with our desire for tech and lots of really high skill admin work.
Yep!
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
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- Ranch
We are by no definition of the word even close to fuedalism. Feudalism isn't having nobles or powerful elites, that is the norm for any pre modern system. Feudalism is about the decentralisation and delegation of power, that is its core. Everything else spins around that concept, and you cannot possibly think that the Ymaryn are in anyway decentralised or have a miniscule buecracy.
Military service for land and the power to exploit it for said service is the classical definition of feudalism, albeit not the kind I advocate for.
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On the plus side it does mean a trickle of well educated 5th sons sinking into the artisanry to bolster the quality of those lower ranks, since they'd be educated to a better quality for resource availability compared to non-patrician artisans.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
So then to finish the reasoning chain, these highly in demand teachers would begin to branch out because getting better at administration eventually becomes harder than memorizing literature, and the patricians in charge, aiming to keep their sons in power, shifts the examination procedure to recitations?
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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- Lickwidget
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- She/Her
Which, funnily enough, makes the Romans quite feudal in structure during portions of their history.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Eh?
I mean I know he's been ranting on about Manouralism or something like that for a while for some reason?
Please if he dislikes this then he must hate the Federation.
1 side stepping the question ANSWER IT
Second the definition of feudalism (not fuedalism)
- the dominant social system in medieval Europe, in which the nobility held lands from the Crown in exchange for military service, and vassals were in turn tenants of the nobles, while the peasants (villeins or serfs) were obliged to live on their lord's land and give him homage, labour, and a share of the produce, notionally in exchange for military protection.
Nobles own land in exchange from the king and enact the kings laws and do his Bureaucracy. Do you have any idea how much stuff we have from the dark and middle ages is nothing but endless lists of accounts, laws and authorisations.
About 98%!
It's huge.
I personally think neither would work at the moment and both just end up with the world on fire and everyone being asses.
And yeah compared to us now a days they are decentralised.
Really decentralised.
Not so much compared to some ancient civilisations or some parts of America, but still.
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