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Paths of Civilization

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Alex pears said:
Because people absolutely have the best interests of other people at heart when what they want is on the line?

And yeah as some who's had their life saved by the state I can say that it does, if only because it is being forced to, a government rules by consent of the people even if the people are idiots.

Can governments be stupid fuck the hell yeah is that even a question? It gets even worse as they get older which is why they need to be burned to the ground every once in a while.

Can people be even worse yes again does that need to be a question and can corporations be even WORSE than that well look at pretty much any mega corp.
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And this is were the ideological difference lies, to me governments are a barely tolerable evil, and should stay as marginal as possible lest they become less tolerable.

As for being ruled by the consent of the people, that becomes less and less the more power a state is given, and a powerful centralised state rules by the authority of its self.
And as you said power is liable to abuse, and so it should be diluted as much as possible, so that any abuse that could happend would be miniscule, rather than the totalitarian tyranny of powerful states.

Lastly Mega corps are a product of the increasing power and influence of states, they are fed and sustained by state resources and legal structures. Take away the subsidies, guarantees and the complex legal structures protecting them from compitition/market forces and they collapse.
I find people decrying capitalism duo to corporations rather strange, as its the increased state power and influence that made those corporations possible that they should decry.
 
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Sugnez said:
Then a chief or a patrician somewhere would figure that cast iron skillets are really good, and because of action synergy we end up inventing a police force that same turn equipped with skillets. Because the Ymaryn also aren't afraid to use peaceful inventions for violence, and bludgeoning weapons are good for non-leathal takedowns, which is what law enforcement of that time would be doing.

....That one got a little away from me. Oh well!
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AHhahahahahahahahhh!!!

Frying pan wielding police! Fuuuuhahahahhahahahahah! *wipes eyes*

Crow-damned that's a good one.


However I think that in actuality they'd wield hammers, with which they hit people who are doing stupid shit. And they'd make *BAN* *BAN* noises.

In fact I would not be surprised if our priests have a practice of carrying around hammers for exactly that purpose.
 
DocMatoi said:
I was playing to kick shitty history in the dick and make a civilization of good guys.
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Sure. And you're a voice for the immediately good option in all cases that I can remember.

Whereas I think voting for all the good choices now will slow our tech development and hence significantly decrease good in the long run.

We draw the line different places. You're rejecting the shadow; the shitty history of humanity. I'm attempting to use our shadow in limited ways to force a faster tech development and better-life-sooner on not!Earth.

Neither of us are playing it wrong (and frankly, we represent two different perceptions that the same person could easily struggle choosing between.)
 
Sugnez said:
Ahhhh, now let's see...if we haven't already invented extursion with our pickaxes and axes, we're bound to come up with that soon. Or along those same lines, what if we invented proper chains? Like if we just popped together a ton of chain links? The design on it's own is pretty simple once the setup's there, it just takes a bit of work and repetition.
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If you mean iron chains then it's possible we don't have them, but chains have been a part of jewelry for a very long time. I figure we have the idea of a chain and chain links in play in some form.

*scratches head*

There are definitely things we might be able to do there however.
 
maximillian said:
And this is were the ideological difference lies, to me governments are a barely tolerable evil, and should stay a marginal as possible lest it becomes less tolerable.

As for being ruled by the consent of the people, that becomes less and less the more power a state is given, and a powerful centralised state rules by the authority of its self.
And as you said power is liable to abuse, and so it should be diluted as much as possible, so that any abuse that could happend would be miniscule, rather than the totalitarian tyranny of powerful states.

Lastly Mega corps are a product of the increasing power and influence of states, they are fed and sustained by state resources and legal structures. Take away the subsidies, guarantees and the complex legal structures protecting them from compitition and they collapse.
I find people decrying capitalism duo to corporations rather strange, as its the increased state power and influence that made those corporations possible that they should decry.
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I know so it's probably best for both of us to drop the subject since I doubt bickering over the internet is going to change the others mind.

I'll just respond to this
1. For all the power a state has until the robot armies appear its armies its bureaucrats ect. are still human eventually things get to the point where they won't support it.
2. That does not fix the issue. Instead of totalitarian tyranny you've instead got termite tyranny, the small every day kind that goes on constantly and will until the end of time unless you force people to not do it.

People make laws and people obey them because they are afraid of the reprisals. Take away that power and the small tyrants don't have to stop they can and will force themselves to the top only this time there's nothing to stop them.

As for Mega Corps not really, take away government protections for people as well as the govs subsidies and suddenly a successful mega corp doesn't have anything to stop it swamping it's competition, building and building and building and with no government you can't sue it or find it in violation of something to make it stop.

The only thing that can make a corp stop is if their products become so bad people stop buying them, but with no protections to stop them apple or micro soft can do what they've wanted to do and make themselves a monopoly on electronics.

Look I've got to go for a birthday party, but I can PM you later with a more detailed, and less rushed, thing on this if you'd prefer
 
We have some really unique and bizarre genetics. For example, we have the full range of skin tones. With pale white from the nomads, and dark brown/black from the Khem mixing in with the browns from the lowlands.
 
DocMatoi said:
I was playing to kick shitty history in the dick and make a civilization of good guys.
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While I agree with the idea that by virtue of us ourselves guiding them, the Yamryn are particularly freed from some of history's constraints, history does not have good guys. Civilizations ebb and flow from 'good' to bad and are often both at the same time. One cannot have a fix it fic for real life unless they want to utterly wank something.

Even at our best, ie the first immigrant pov update, the Yamryn were strange and unapproachable in the eyes of outsiders. Some people thought we ate the people we adopted into our hills.

Right now the Ymaryn are recovering from a moral/ethical slump that's been a long time coming. This is probably our fault in part. We've known about possibilities to prevent some of these things for a long time and have neglected to do them until we had to, or we didn't ask the right questions. And we still haven't enforced our new laws with an action.

We need to be willing to occasionally take actions for a narrative benefit, in order to prevent mechanically obvious decay from popping up. Or more gut/kokoro punching updates like with Naha.
 
Dutch said:
Short version?

Because LoA stimulates people into being the best and our Elites to be better. Early education is going to be a thing for the wealthy, elite and maybe later on upper middle class. There's just not going to be enough teachers to teach anyone else. Teachers need the time and money to be able to study. Our traits mean that they are going to be in high demand, which means that they are going to charge high fees. The rich are going to be able to pay those rates, giving them access to better education. This raises the standard non-elites need to adhere to in order to rise in status or be accepted amongst their supposed peers.
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Ah you meant as some sort of artificial barrier put up to block those who lack education (and are thus not patricians) rather then some sort of Chinese bureaucratic nightmare. Well I'm not too worried there, something which so dramatically impacts our civil service seems like the type of thing that we'd be able to decide on our own rather then have it naturally develop. We're centralized and advanced enough to set the standards for testing in our bureaucracy after all.
 
Rakuhn said:
Our Admin Hero King took a Main Enforce Justice in "Decision Point".
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That turn and this one have been really over shadowed by the comet though. And the update doesn't really touch on it either. I dunno what to say man it just kind of got washed under the huge fuckery that was... the fuckass comet.:V
 
Lilithium said:
Right now the Ymaryn are recovering from a moral/ethical slump that's been a long time coming. This is probably our fault in part. We've known about possibilities to prevent some of these things for a long time and have neglected to do them until we had to, or we didn't ask the right questions. And we still haven't enforced our new laws with an action.
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The things people are most upset about (like patricians hoarding knowledge) are part of the law.
 
Rakuhn said:
Our Admin Hero King took a Main Enforce Justice in "Decision Point".
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Which probably helped bring some of the systemic abuses to light, but we'd probably need to take it a few more times to smack abusers around enough or to make it clear to the King that he needs more people actually go looking for unlawful behaviour.

The beauty of the current cutthroat system is that patricians will happily direct investigations at rival families as everyone tries to weaken the other while hiding their own crimes. So Enforce Justice has certainly become very important narratively and we should get enough procs to lower cent that we can still build Trails regularly.
 
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