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Paths of Civilization

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TheDanishLord said:
We shoud get to india thos guys are nice
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Sure.

Suddenly, they all start to go full Kali-Ma on us.

Though trade with China would be nice. I've read that the Ming considered Rome to be some sort of western counterpart to the Middle Kingdom, it would be nice if we could actually take that status and run with it. Great trading opportunities along the Silk Road.
 
10ebbor10 said:
Why do we need Temples, Libraries or roads?

Our religious Authority is fine, our mysticism is raising rapidly and our centralization issues were solved by the Palace.

Besides, Temples and Libraries are merely extensions to their megaproject. So, from what I see, the problem is not excessive focus on megaprojects, because we don't. The project is that we're not doing what you want to do.
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Roads raise our centralization cap, which offsets the reduction from true cities. Temples increase our pilgrimage. More libraries are just for redundancy now.
 
10ebbor10 said:
Do we?

When is the last time we intentionally build a wonder. Like, without being forced to do it because not doing it would have caused a societal collapse?
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It is true that it has been a while since we had a chance for that, but that is mainly caused by us having never been without a fire to extinguish within that timeframe.
Reading the discussion when we believe to have a calm moment soon, there is barely any talk about fixing our roads, doing some science, more trade, keeping up with what our neighbours are doing or improving our abysmal defense stuff. It is always just "WONDER, WONDER, WONDER".

10ebbor10 said:
and our centralization issues were solved by the Palace.
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Roads arent about centralization. They are about connectivity, a stat which unfortunately isnt on the frontpage.
All our massive cultural divergence issues are mainly caused by us having ignored roads for centuries and the band aids we have recently applied probably havent actually stopped the bleeding.
 
Palace Annex - Can construct additional palace annexes, with each {S} committed consuming 2 Econ and 2 Culture for a new annex (7/11)
-Arsenal x2
Study Metal - Iron and copper, gold and silver, what other secrets are hidden in metal and stone?
* S: -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Mysticism, +1 Tech, small chance of new insights
Support Artisans - With the growing importance of skilled artisans to the maintenance of society, additional support may sometimes be needed
*S: -1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +3 Tech, +1 Culture, potential innovations
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Total stat costs are 4 econ, 3 culture, 3 wealth, 1 mysticism.
Total stat gains are 4 tech.
Pop explosion + other is providing a massive +14 in stats.
 
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Current Tally:
Adhoc vote count started by gutza1 on Jul 28, 2017 at 7:50 AM, finished with 365 posts and 70 votes.
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SpeckofStardust said:
If it wasn't for this war we be doing a mega project right now, their were in fact people last turn arguing for doing the war while keeping Mega project support on so that a mega project could be started.
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And yet the war plans are supported with devastatingly overwhelming support. You're complaining about a problem that only exists in hypotheticals and what if discussions, not in actual actions.

Killer_Whale said:
Roads raise our centralization cap, which offsets the reduction from true cities. Temples increase our pilgrimage. More libraries are just for redundancy now.
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So, none of the 3 are priorities or in any way urgent.

By contrast, megaprojects are really, really important. Just think about what goodness was unlocked by the Palace, the Census, and all that. Had we accomplished those earlier, we'd have been better of.

CeBrudras said:
It is true that it has been a while since we had a chance for that, but that is mainly caused by us having never been without a fire to extinguish within that timeframe.
Reading the discussion when we believe to have a calm moment soon, there is barely any talk about fixing our roads, doing some science, more trade, keeping up with what our neighbours are doing or improving our abysmal defense stuff. It is always just "WONDER, WONDER, WONDER".
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So you agree that we haven't actually committed too much effort to megaprojects, because we do focus on what is needed when stuff is on fire. In addition, I point to evidence from the recent past (with the Tax Crisis) to show that we are actually spending too little effort on wonders.


As for roads and cultural diverence, I disagree.

For one, I will require evidence that says that roads are the major issue causing cultural divergence, instead of simply the fact that time moves on and so on. Even so, our loyality is in no way in trouble.

For two, we can resolve those issues far easier by annexing, propagating or influencing subordinates.
 
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[X] [Main] Build Annex - Arsenal
[X] [Secondary] Study Metal
[X] [Secondary] More Blackbirds
 
SpeckofStardust said:
an Arsenal is for the storing and organization of weapons, if you want to get steal you be better off simply focusing on Metal research.
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The Arsenal annex for the production of weapons, by gathering the best artisans in the kingdom to outfit the king and the court.
Academia Nut said:
Sixth were proposals to have artisans brought in to live within the palace, producing warrior goods. This would ensure that the king would have the best equipment available and that the best warriors would always come to the palace for their gear, rather than potentially going elsewhere. Many of the association members also suggested that having such an annex would also help tie the king more closely to the artisans by having them live in association with each other.
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Academia Nut said:
Oh, and of course, there were the interactions that might emerge from having different annexes with each other. An arsenal, stores, and fortification all together would make the palace an impressive internal hard point. Especially large great halls that lead in part to gardens had the potential to be quite impressive, and what wonders might a large library, temple, and arsenal produce when all in close association with each other and with access to the king? It was a complex question with many proposals that the king and council would have to sort out.
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[X] [Main] Build Annex - Arsenal
[X] [Secondary] Study Metal
[X] [Secondary] Support Artisans
 
10ebbor10 said:
For one, I will require evidence that says that roads are the major issue causing cultural divergence, instead of simply the fact that time moves on and so on. Even so, our loyality is in no way in trouble.
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Not bearing on the argument itself, but roads are important. You say our loyalties are in no trouble? How do you know?

I presume you have this opinion because the stat screen says so. A while ago we thought that we had high centralisation too, because the stat screen said so. The first time we built a road in recent memory we found out that the stat screen lied and the centralisation was lower than shown.

As such we know that roads are important in connecting our people and providing us information in a timely manner. It also narratively allows us to move our troops quickly, and well maintained roads mean that people can easily travel to a different polity. This cuts down on exploitation as people can simply leave, and it also cuts down on cultural divergence due this same fact as people interact with each other more and aren't isolated.

Furthermore this very same example shows why infrastructure is important. Focusing on megaprojects is nice, but we wouldn't even have known about the crisis if our roads hadn't been built.

Who knows what other problems are hidden within our society, that we just can't tell because we don't have good infrastructure.

For a modern day society, it's the same as trying to get a man on the moon instead of working on public education, when the latter is significantly lagging.
 
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[X] [Main] Build Watchtowers
[X] [Secondary] More Blackbirds
[X] [Secondary] New Trails

Also didn't we already turn Greenshore into a colony? *looks at front page* Yes we did. @Academia Nut you might want to correct that.
 
To put things into perspective - we have ten completed megaprojects, two of those Tier 2, so let's say we have twelve.
Out of those, six were built in response to a crisis (Both tiers of Sacred Forest, both tiers of Law, Palace, Census).
Four were actually prototype extended projects, so pretty essential for infrastructure purposes (Saltern, Garden, Temple, Library).
One was a super unique opportunity thanks to a Heroic Mystic (Sacred Warding).
And we are left with grand total of one megaproject, Canal, which I think was build in ancient days before we even knew what megaprojects are (though maybe Sacred Forest was the first?), and also in response to a big challenge, if not exactly to a crisis. And maybe it's also prototype extended project? Pretty situational one, then, so doesn't really count.

So no, I don't think we were building too many.

SpeckofStardust said:
Arsenal is for the storing and organization of weapons
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No, Arsenal and armory is not the same thing. Arsenal is a research and production facility, built to equip king's armies with best gear possible. Exactly what we need for steel.
 
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As the people are the divine stewards of the land i vote to call our head priest steward of the people.
 
The whoresons! In the update with what's her name, she mentioned giving up children for the priests to raise. She was meant as a model for the general conditions of our slums. Now, think about it. We have a shadow organization in our society. Our Blackbirds are compromised in their entirety. How? Well, we have entire generations of people raised by priests, who we draw our Blackbirds from, with very few other connections. If they then recruit the best and brightest as Blackbirds while spreading everyone else throughout society, just like they're supposed to, well, you have an integrated and near invisible domestic spy organization. Raised from birth to be loyal, sympathies with our lower classes, and with a constant replacement mechanic since the lower classes of a society tend to have more kids. Children that have a good chance of living, given our better than average health system.

We've got a straight up mystical secret society going here!

@Academia Nut confirm, deny, or no comment?
 
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