No justification?
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
No justification?
- Location
- Panama City
Well, I asked because we just plain can't afford to go for the maximum right now. Like I said, just because we can grab 8 annexes doesn't mean that it's wise to.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ok. This is blatantly false. Valleyhome has existed as an entity for ~1700 years. A civilization literally grew up and out from Valleyhome.
You know that expression "all roads lead to Rome?" It is literally true in this case. Valleyhome has more than just manufactured political power. It has the highest population of any single town/city in the kingdom. That means a large part of the trade in the kingdom stops or starts there. I won't dispute that Redshore certainly has more trade pass through it, but...
Valleyhome has a large portion of the arts and skilled manufacturing, sciences you name it.
It's also only an easy week from Redshore a day if pressed. It isn't out in the boonies. Hell, if this were modern day, Valleyhome and Sacred Forest would likely be as close as Minneapolis and St. Paul.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm certainly not mad that double library is winning, and the admin help is a big part of that; i'm just skeptical that the extra mysticism refund is, in and of itself, actually worth as much as some people are saying it is; with soon to be maxed mysticism and 7 soon to be 8 art (that should be 9 soon to be 10 if i'm not missing something*) it's not *urgent* in my opinion, since we should have enough to make it through the Law either way
We got that out of it this turn, even
4-6 actually:
Also, the extra library isn't an issue of "x2", its an issue of "x1", since we already have 1 refund. Gaining the extra refund is a difference of 4-6 mysticism, not "5-7x2"
* on that note... @Academia Nut i'm sorry if i've asked too many times, but i plan to finalize my vote before i make dinner and these two questions are important to what i choose:
1. Shouldn't we have 9 art? 9 art (last turn) - 2 (Palace) + 1 (Carrions) +1 (Blackbirds)
2. Will building (or expanding) a garden annex or expanding the great hall annex after this vote be impossible, or cost more than the usual 2 econ/2art/1 main action, or be less functional, due to the need to redo things more extensively than other annexes?
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
What do you think we use for interior lighting, magic?
- Location
- Australia
@Academia Nut, are we supposed to be using some kind of thread tag for the annexes?
- Location
- Panama City
No, I'm not willing to gamble on that. More likely Redshore overcrowds and we get hit with penalties for that, THEN we might get a midturn reaction to HOLY FUCK PEOPLE ARE DYING LIKE SHEEP GET SOME WATER HERE MAN!
Seriously, assuming things go as planned is NEVER a good idea, and one that requires the city we build the palace in to immediately get an aqueduct is foolish.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
alrdy edited
A good point, it is only 4-6. I still consider it worthwhile considering that we'll be immediately saving as much as we spend.
- Location
- Canada
Still doesn't change my assertion that Redshore is the better choice longterm. I never attacked people for picking Valleyhome but people left and right are jumping at me for saying Redshore is our better longterm prospect and it keeps our subordinates happy.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Or it's age.
All three are the first settlements we had. Then next oldest is Lower Valleyhome which is their junior by something like 700 years.
- Location
- Panama City
Because it's only POSSIBLY better longterm. The reason people are jumping you is because it's actually dubious claim per WOG.
Yes, it's better long term, but it doesn't matter anyway because we are in crisis mode.
Crazy7s1
Excellent
Mainly wanting a kickass palace and an extreme dislike for the minimalist plans.
I don't actually want all 8, I just want to try and insure we don't have a minimalist palace.
Possibly better long term.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, just to be sure i'm getting my point across, i dont think its a bad choice in any respect, even if it didn't also help admin woes. I just don't think that getting the refund is in any way essential, and i value an action now, and an econ we're short on, over 4-6 more mysticism later when we're already doing pretty well on that, especially given how many things we have vying for our time, econ, and actions right now
- Location
- Panama City
We actually won't if the tally is to be believed. We have 3-5 options that are likely.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Obviously magical orbs that give off light and glowing mushroom.
There's different fire hazard rating between torches & fire pit versus forge/kiln.
We aren't foolproof and cities often attract fire.
To fully break down my vote:
[] [Loc] Valleyhome
[] Great Hall Expansion
[] Shrine
[] Library
[] Library x2
[] Gardens
Valleyhome - it saves us ~3 annexes worth of time compared to Redshore (Since running water is nice for the king to have) and keeps the government/religion powerbases separated.
Semi-required:
[] Shrine
[] Library
Both of these have been noted to be so basic that they're almost necessary unless we want to deal with a lot of problems.
Ridiculously useful:
[] Library x2
This pays for itself before we finish the Census, and The Law (Iron Age) is likely going to have a significant Mysticism cost as well.
Other:
[] Gardens
[] Great Hall Expansion
These two will combo together very nicely (as noted in the update) and make sure that the King can hold large public events, impress others, and is able to go somewhere peaceful and calming. It also reinforces our connection to nature, ties our religion further into real-world benefits (since the gardening will be done by priests) and both have been noted to be hard to add on afterwards.
I wish:
[] Storehouse
This would be useful, but 2/3 of its benefits are already covered (Valleyhome is well-protected against war and Sacred Forest Renewal has made us almost immune to natural disasters). It's also relatively easy to add on afterwards if it turns out we do want it. As such, as much as I'd like it, I'm voting to skip it for now.
Total costs: 7-9 [Main] actions remaining. Switch to Megaproject Support and we can get it done in 3 turns. The Gardens+Great Hall is the most questionable, but they're explicitly hard to add on afterwards, synergize well together, and add slightly under 1 turn to the costs.
[] [Loc] Valleyhome
[] Great Hall Expansion
[] Shrine
[] Library
[] Library x2
[] Gardens
Valleyhome - it saves us ~3 annexes worth of time compared to Redshore (Since running water is nice for the king to have) and keeps the government/religion powerbases separated.
Semi-required:
[] Shrine
[] Library
Both of these have been noted to be so basic that they're almost necessary unless we want to deal with a lot of problems.
Ridiculously useful:
[] Library x2
This pays for itself before we finish the Census, and The Law (Iron Age) is likely going to have a significant Mysticism cost as well.
Other:
[] Gardens
[] Great Hall Expansion
These two will combo together very nicely (as noted in the update) and make sure that the King can hold large public events, impress others, and is able to go somewhere peaceful and calming. It also reinforces our connection to nature, ties our religion further into real-world benefits (since the gardening will be done by priests) and both have been noted to be hard to add on afterwards.
I wish:
[] Storehouse
This would be useful, but 2/3 of its benefits are already covered (Valleyhome is well-protected against war and Sacred Forest Renewal has made us almost immune to natural disasters). It's also relatively easy to add on afterwards if it turns out we do want it. As such, as much as I'd like it, I'm voting to skip it for now.
Total costs: 7-9 [Main] actions remaining. Switch to Megaproject Support and we can get it done in 3 turns. The Gardens+Great Hall is the most questionable, but they're explicitly hard to add on afterwards, synergize well together, and add slightly under 1 turn to the costs.
Feeling ill, will do it when I feel better
Not going to get fully stuck in because sick but:
Important part of using the Palace to mend the cultural and administrative rift.
[] Great Hall Expansion
Hosting foreign dignitaries.
Low priority for now.
[] Shrine
Must have at least one level of shrine. Higher levels of shrine in the palace apparently supports royal authority religiously, which can be double edged, but is largely beneficial unless someone decides to make the Palace a bigger temple than the temple.
[] Library
STRONGLY recommended to have at least one level of Library due to our immense level of bureaucracy. Two levels if we intend to do the Census right after.
People have no idea just how much records that will spawn.
[] Gardens
Stress relief for the king, culturally significant(you don't want to king completely distanced from nature in our culture), and produces a supply of important medical herbs in crisis.
One level is recommended but not essential.
[] Storehouse
At least one level is ESSENTIAL to making a Command Economy sustainable, but this depends on location. Its far less useful in Valleyhome than in Redshore.
[] Arsenal
Helps ties warriors and artisans to the palace.
Relatively low priority. We want this eventually, but have few immediate needs for it so we can just eat the inefficiency later
[] Fortifications
Protects the Palace from attack and rebellion but makes the nobility even more distant`from the people. Pass.
So my vote:
[X] [Loc] Redshore
[X] Shrine
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Storehouse
[X] Gardens
Crisis resolution then:
-Redshore to bind the largest number of provinces together. Reminder that Hathatyn and Western Wall Colonies will be spawning their own breakaway events soon.
-Shrine to avoid causing problems.
-Two levels of library, unless you want 'hilarity' to ensue from the Census. Seriously, don't underestimate how much bookkeeping is needed to USE it.
-One level of storehouse to grease the command economy.
-One level of Garden I'm slightly more iffy on, but it's culturally important for us that the king is tied to nature.
Last edited:
- Location
- Canada
I don't want to debate in circles all day.
Is Redshore certainly a better long term prospect then Valleyhome @Academia Nut
Is Redshore certainly a better long term prospect then Valleyhome @Academia Nut
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
The Palace has always been about the administrative strain part of the problem, not the cultural rift part.
Also enhances festivals/public events, and is hard to add on afterwards.
Also hard to add on afterwards.
It really isn't required.
- Location
- Source of confusion itself.
Unfortunately they couldn't get inside because of the fortifications and many died trying to storm it. The next tried to starve out the residents... only to fall victim to the relief forces, because the storage was to big to be used up quickly. Then they got subjugated and put back under our heel, where they belong.
How unfortunate for them.