- Location
- Austria
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
We've HALPED pretty much everyone due to our econ vampirism. We want to do good to their people, and hence economically ruin them. And oh, the Spirit Talkers. We HALPED them to death, even if at the end we tried to prevent that and fix our mistake.
Ancient Scholar
Amateur Editor/Beta
- Location
- United States
Going for the farmer build is awesome. Our base is really strong with how important the land is too our people and culture. We also have Iron so we don't depend on bronze, and our Sacred Forest means we can survive things other civs can't.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
OTOH, there are things other civs can survive and we don't: Administration overstraining and tax reforms!
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The Unfallen will totally play as HALPers if you don't get in actual alliance with them. They entwine star systems with a network of mystic vines connected with their home planet, causing any of your planets they attach to to slowly flip over to their control while granting bonuses, and the only way to remove them is to be at war. If you're at peace with the Unfallen they are in the process of stealing your worlds while being nice about it.
- Location
- Austria
Weelll....we did teach Highlanders to farm, so there is that?
Also we teached others about sanitation and boiling water and saline solution and curing cholera, which is huge, but was kind of wasted because they lacked records and lacked salt+honey.
And we are currently helping Lowlanders via assuming direct control.
That's kind of hilarious disbalance.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Whoa. Dude. We were pretty calmly debating last night. Where the heck do I even come into this?
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
he specifically noted you as a positive example, if you read all of the post
- Location
- Austria
Apologies if it came out wrong way; but, well, I mentioned you in, I think that and certainly in other, second (third?) post as an example of good debating; I do not mind defending my position.
I was (not am, I've calmed down it seems) angered largely by accusation of me defending my position as somehow being an attack on other people. To quite smaller degree by my position characterized by @Candesce as, I quote, "being willing to break our civilization", which is ridiculous strawman and yet me being made a monster hunting for any weakness in others' positions.
You were perfectly good debater, and I apologize if I represented you as being a bad influence on the debate, it was not intentional.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
honestly while I'd probably be best at the unfallen I like the Horatio and Vodyani a lot, narratively. The other cultures are kind of boring. The Riftborn have an interesting history but seem kind of boring in this actual reality, time-warp excepting.
Dibs yourselves while we wait for AN.
Dibs yourselves while we wait for AN.
- Location
- Austria
Vodyani are assholes though. Like, "make Imperium look like nice guys" assholes.
Unfallen have my approval beause TREEEEEEEES, Sophons are generic science race which remind me of that one MoO2 race with utterly broken Creative so they get my like too, others are meh.
ES1 had Vaulters aka dwarves IN SPACE with absolutely bullshit defensive capability and Harmony, which is like TREEES but ROOOOCKS so they had my like too (also, the fucking snowballing of them with no-upkeep ships was beyond ridiculous).
In Endless Legend, of course Wild Walkers are the best.
But honestly, Endless games had absolutely crappy AI compared to EU4 or Vic2, so I played them mostly for gorgeous music(probably one of the best OSTs I've heard) and great sleek design more than the gameplay.
Cultural friction
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X][RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)
[X][Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X][Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X][Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X][High] Extra tribute (+2 Prestige, +2 Wealth, probably completes this turn)
[X][RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley
[X][React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X][City] No
[X][Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
"The questions we are asking here are not upon the nature of the divine, but upon the human relationship with the divine. What personal acts are revealed to us as being pleasing to the gods through the emotions they stir? Simple hedonistic indulgence is eliminated quickly enough, as these pleasures are transitory and fleeting. That we may enjoy ourselves in this life is a gift from the divine, but it is not our purpose. To find purpose we seek the transcendental joys, the moments when our souls are able to brush up against the divine. Upon seeking the commonality in these moments, we see ties of preservation and creation: parents with their children, artisans completing a craft, warriors protecting their fellows, priests and shamans uncovering some new facet of the divine. Thus we peel back the purpose the gods have set for us: to preserve and continue forward their creation, with humans being among their finest creations. Thus we find ourselves celebrating the protectors, for their contributions are obvious and moving. But can we go astray? Yes, yes we can. We can say to ourselves, 'The man who lays down his life for the community is committing the greatest good one can commit, so surely this is our purpose? To die for the rest, to die for the gods? But as there is sorrow in the loss of a friend, of a family member, can this purpose not be fulfilled by another? Can we not make the bittersweet less bitter by having another fulfill this purpose?' This is a very human thing to think, for none of us wish to see our friends and family taken from us, but are we not flawed beings? Are we not capable of perverting the divine, turning it vulgar? If we were not, we would not be discussing this here, for we would already know the correct path without requiring guidance. The Priests of Xohyr fell down this path, listening to the whispering of demons and taking the easy road of making someone else have to bear the burdens of the divine. We say no, to do such is to degrade the divine purpose. If a man should fall in service to others, that is his destiny to achieve, and if it is to create a family and tend to the earth, then that is also his destiny to achieve, and to swap one for the other because you know the former better than the latter is acting in defiance of the tasks the gods have set for us."
Thus did the debate wrap up. The priests and worshipers from the south had many answers, but though they were steadfast in them, many of them ultimately fell flat to the priests of the People, frequently lacking in nuance... although the priests of the People admit that they can tell that these are second or third hand arguments and a direct debate against the Priests of Xohyr would have been much harder. As it is, while new gods are acknowledged as having a place within shrines and holy places, the worst or most troubling aspects to come from the south are stripped out. The wealth and power of the People - and the fact that they somewhat ironically ripped the still beating heart out of the priests of the gods they are debating - definitely goes a long way towards convincing people of the rightness of the People's own priests.
The debate, the celebrations of the divine meant to help encourage the priest's point of view, and a contingent of artisans to help explain land improvement methods also goes a long way towards convincing the lowlanders that the People really do have their best interests at heart, so when others are sent to get them to comply with the actual spirit of the laws laid down for them, they actually agree to follow the law more than just begrudgingly and within the most favourable reading of the letter for their own benefit. In particular, while slavery had been "banned" in prior years, now the renamed half-exiles were actually being treated as the People felt they should. Part of this was unfortunately driven by local leaders realizing that they would strip rivals of power by no longer having the "half-exiles" be overseen by individuals or families but by the local chief, and that they could also use the punishment against their rivals. This... wasn't ideal but it definitely was a step in the right direction.
It also revealed the fact that among the different provinces there were differences in opinion on how to "properly" implement the half-exile punishment process. That was probably a discussion for another day, but there was definitely a process at play that the People might find useful in the future.
In less pleasant news, the Highlanders appeared to have decided that the People were being held back in the west and thus they should focus their efforts on the east, leading to significant losses from the fighting there... although this also meant that when the Red Banner were deployed to the west through Hatvalley the limited gains the Highlanders had made were rapidly reversed. Realizing that they weren't winning quickly enough in the east to let them actually sustain the fighting, the next time there was a parley they rapidly acquiesced to demands to cease fighting and pay tribute for starting shit they could not finish. This was probably a good thing as the Swamp Folk were proving a distinctly tough nut to crack and playing merry hell with the lowland villages, and the Thunder Horse looked to be getting their act together enough to take a swing. Fortunately, the Stallions and Hawks both heard this and sent some reinforcements to link up with the king's forces on a permanent basis.
All in all, everything was a bit of a mess, but it could definitely be worse.
[X][Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X][Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X][Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X][High] Extra tribute (+2 Prestige, +2 Wealth, probably completes this turn)
[X][RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley
[X][React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X][City] No
[X][Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
"The questions we are asking here are not upon the nature of the divine, but upon the human relationship with the divine. What personal acts are revealed to us as being pleasing to the gods through the emotions they stir? Simple hedonistic indulgence is eliminated quickly enough, as these pleasures are transitory and fleeting. That we may enjoy ourselves in this life is a gift from the divine, but it is not our purpose. To find purpose we seek the transcendental joys, the moments when our souls are able to brush up against the divine. Upon seeking the commonality in these moments, we see ties of preservation and creation: parents with their children, artisans completing a craft, warriors protecting their fellows, priests and shamans uncovering some new facet of the divine. Thus we peel back the purpose the gods have set for us: to preserve and continue forward their creation, with humans being among their finest creations. Thus we find ourselves celebrating the protectors, for their contributions are obvious and moving. But can we go astray? Yes, yes we can. We can say to ourselves, 'The man who lays down his life for the community is committing the greatest good one can commit, so surely this is our purpose? To die for the rest, to die for the gods? But as there is sorrow in the loss of a friend, of a family member, can this purpose not be fulfilled by another? Can we not make the bittersweet less bitter by having another fulfill this purpose?' This is a very human thing to think, for none of us wish to see our friends and family taken from us, but are we not flawed beings? Are we not capable of perverting the divine, turning it vulgar? If we were not, we would not be discussing this here, for we would already know the correct path without requiring guidance. The Priests of Xohyr fell down this path, listening to the whispering of demons and taking the easy road of making someone else have to bear the burdens of the divine. We say no, to do such is to degrade the divine purpose. If a man should fall in service to others, that is his destiny to achieve, and if it is to create a family and tend to the earth, then that is also his destiny to achieve, and to swap one for the other because you know the former better than the latter is acting in defiance of the tasks the gods have set for us."
Thus did the debate wrap up. The priests and worshipers from the south had many answers, but though they were steadfast in them, many of them ultimately fell flat to the priests of the People, frequently lacking in nuance... although the priests of the People admit that they can tell that these are second or third hand arguments and a direct debate against the Priests of Xohyr would have been much harder. As it is, while new gods are acknowledged as having a place within shrines and holy places, the worst or most troubling aspects to come from the south are stripped out. The wealth and power of the People - and the fact that they somewhat ironically ripped the still beating heart out of the priests of the gods they are debating - definitely goes a long way towards convincing people of the rightness of the People's own priests.
The debate, the celebrations of the divine meant to help encourage the priest's point of view, and a contingent of artisans to help explain land improvement methods also goes a long way towards convincing the lowlanders that the People really do have their best interests at heart, so when others are sent to get them to comply with the actual spirit of the laws laid down for them, they actually agree to follow the law more than just begrudgingly and within the most favourable reading of the letter for their own benefit. In particular, while slavery had been "banned" in prior years, now the renamed half-exiles were actually being treated as the People felt they should. Part of this was unfortunately driven by local leaders realizing that they would strip rivals of power by no longer having the "half-exiles" be overseen by individuals or families but by the local chief, and that they could also use the punishment against their rivals. This... wasn't ideal but it definitely was a step in the right direction.
It also revealed the fact that among the different provinces there were differences in opinion on how to "properly" implement the half-exile punishment process. That was probably a discussion for another day, but there was definitely a process at play that the People might find useful in the future.
In less pleasant news, the Highlanders appeared to have decided that the People were being held back in the west and thus they should focus their efforts on the east, leading to significant losses from the fighting there... although this also meant that when the Red Banner were deployed to the west through Hatvalley the limited gains the Highlanders had made were rapidly reversed. Realizing that they weren't winning quickly enough in the east to let them actually sustain the fighting, the next time there was a parley they rapidly acquiesced to demands to cease fighting and pay tribute for starting shit they could not finish. This was probably a good thing as the Swamp Folk were proving a distinctly tough nut to crack and playing merry hell with the lowland villages, and the Thunder Horse looked to be getting their act together enough to take a swing. Fortunately, the Stallions and Hawks both heard this and sent some reinforcements to link up with the king's forces on a permanent basis.
All in all, everything was a bit of a mess, but it could definitely be worse.
Art Patronage - Wealth of the first and second kind can be used to create wealth of the third kind to the benefit of all
* S: -1 Wealth, +2 Art
* M: -1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +4 Art, +1 Prestige, potential innovations
Black Soil - There are many places that could benefit from further black soil, but making more is starting to take up more resources than it is currently returning
* S: -1 Econ, chance of +1 Econ next turn, +2-3 Econ Expansion
* M: +2-3 Econ Expansion
* used 3 times
Build Chariots - The vehicle of the elite, chariots are the most effective way of waging war the People know.
* S: -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, +2 Martial, +1 Art
*M: -1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +4 Martial, +1 Art
Build Docks - With large numbers of ships being built, a new place to store them all, the goods they bring in, and a place to build them might be a good idea
*S: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo, increased trade power
*M: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo, increased potential for new innovations, increased trade power
Build Glassworks - A new material discovered recently, new luxuries and trade goods could be made from relatively cheap materials
*S: -1 Econ, +1 Wealth, +1 Art, small chance of new innvoations
*M: -1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations
Build Mills - By harnessing the power of flowing water, work can be done, freeing up considerable amounts of labour
*S: -2 Wealth, -1 Art, +2 Econ, potential for innovation
*M: -3 Wealth, -1 Art, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation
Build Wall - The practice of building city walls has reached new heights with access to superior tools making the cutting of stone simpler (60% light walls, 30% significant walls, 10% massive walls)
*S: -1 Econ, +5% light walls
*M: -2 Econ, +5% significant walls
*2M: -4 Econ, +5% massive walls
Build Watchtowers - Stone and brick towers for warriors to sit in and scan the horizon for trouble, these towers can help stave off raids and improve response against attacks. (40% coverage)
*S: -1 Econ, +5% coverage
*M: -1 Econ, +10% coverage
Change Policy - Adjust the current Policy to one better fitting the situation
*S: Change Policy to one of the available ones listed below
Balanced - Takes whatever actions seem reasonable. Expand Economy is considered a Policy action for interaction with other effects
Defence - Builds walls and watchtowers
Expansion - Builds new settlements, expands economy, expands forests, and can even create new provinces
Infrastructure - Extended projects
Megaproject Support - Provinces can spend actions in support of a megaproject
Offence - Can recruit warriors and specialists, can send war actions against declared enemies
Progress - Takes studying actions and art patronage
Restoration - Takes stability improving actions
Spirits - Builds temples
Trade - Sends out trade missions, produce art and luxuries
Distribute Land - By reworking the distribution of land, the king can improve tax income and reduce pressures administrative overhead
*S: -1 Centralization, +1 Wealth
*M: -2 Centralization, +3 Wealth
Enforce Justice - The king is a servant of the law, and he can use the army to remind people of that fact [GJ]
* S: 1 Stability, +1-3 Centralization
* M: 1 to 2 Stability, +2-3 Centralization
* the more settlements with walls outside of the capital, particularly large walls, the less effective this action is
*Max Stability: Legitimacy
Expand Economy - Encourage the growth of food producing activities such as farming, pastures, or fishing, depending on where focus is placed
*S: +2 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, potential additional effects
*6 Econ Expansion available (max 12 to keep Sacred Forest True City; max 16 for Valleyhome)
Expand Forests - The People have knowledge of how to regrow and repair forests, which extends to bringing them to places they have never been, with considerable effort. With charcoal now in higher demand, can also provide a sustainable supply (7/8 currently locked up)
* S: -1 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, grows forest, +1 Econ next turn if in settled territory and controlled, potential discoveries
* M: -2 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, grows forest, +2 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory, improved odds of success
Expand Snail Cultivation - While now more reliably grown and harvested, the snail domestication has only managed to hold environmental changes at bay rather than increase production. More investment would increase cultivation
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Wealth
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Wealth, +1 Art, potential additional effects
Expand Vineyard - There is a location in Blackriver that is judged an ideal place to grow the small fruits that are favoured for making a particularly potent drink
*S: -1 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, +2 Wealth next turn
*M: -1 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, +1 Wealth, +1 Art
Expand Warriors - More men can be inducted into the ranks of the warriors every year and not face major food shortfalls
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
* M: -1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +3 Martial, +1 Art, potential additional effects
Found Colony - When a province gets too distant, sometimes it is best to grant it additional autonomy so that they can get down to the business of working the land and gathering resources without needing to talk to the king about every little thing. Current Target: Greenshore
*S: Change Greenshore Trading Post to a Colony
*M: 4 Econ Transfer, -2 Martial, founds colony to produce raw resources
Found March - Sometimes you need an extra buffer between you and hostile powers, or a place to stash excess warriors. Current Target: North-East
*M: -5 Martial, 2 Econ transfer, founds march to take independent martial actions
Found Mercenary Company - With new coinage, those who fight for less than savoury reasons can be bargained with more effectively. Paid well they can enhance your forces, or can be hired out to other groups, but beware of having them sit around without pay!
*M: -5 Martial, -1 Wealth per turn in your employ, +1 Wealth per turn if hired out to another group, or 0 Wealth per turn and adds directly to Martial score
Found Trading Post - When doing long distance trading, sometimes having your own infrastructure in place at the other end can be quite useful. Current Target: Far North (dangerous), Near Trelli (risky)
*M: -3 Diplo, -2 Wealth, 2 Econ Transfer, -2 Martial, founds trading post to generate Diplomacy
Influence Subordinate - By transferring specialists and teachers to subordinates they can be nudged into behaving more to the liking of the core provinces
*S: -2 Diplo, Transfer 1 Econ, Wealth, Art and Mysticism; influences subordinate culture
*M: -3 Diplo, Transfer 2 Econ, Wealth, Art and Mysticism; significantly influences subordinate culture
Integrate Colony - Part of the colony of Western Wall or Hatvalley can be integrated into the People more fully, transitioning from a Colony to a province
*M: -6 Diplomacy, gain Econ and Martial from integrating Colony
Integrate March - Better communications and administration means that the Stallion Tribes or Heaven's Hawk can be integrated into the People more fully, transitioning from a March to a province
*M: -6 Diplomacy, gain Econ and Martial from integrating March
Integrate Vassal - Now in contact with the core territories, the lowlanders can be brought more fully into the traditions of the People
*M: -4 Diplomacy, transitions vassal to March or Colony
*2M: -8 Diplomacy, transitions portion of vassal to full province, converts rest to March or Colony
Improve Annual Festival - A festival for every season, but their expansion can help put the People at ease and teach good practices.
* M: -1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +1 Stability, +2 Art, chance for additional effects
* 2M: -2 Econ, -2 Wealth, +1 Stability, +4 Art, chance for additional effects
* Max Stability: Legitimacy - 1
More Blackbirds - Elite scouts and woodsmen, the Blackbirds are a potent force, if not exactly mainline fighters. More of them could prove useful
* S: -1 Mysticism, -1 Wealth, +1 Martial, +1 Art, more Blackbirds
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, -1 Wealth, +2 Martial, +1 Art, many more Blackbirds, additional effects
More Carrion Eaters - Keepers of sacred and profane knowledge, the Carrion Eaters thread a dangerous path but bring valuable knowledge for treating wounds and inspiring courage, greatly bolstering the morale of warriors by ensuring them that their companions are not doomed if they fall. More could prove useful.
*S: -1 Mysticism, -1 Wealth, +1 Martial, +1 Art, more Carrion Eaters
*M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, -1 Wealth, +2 Martial, +1 Art, many more Carrion Eaters, additional effects
More Boats - The things are expensive but oh so useful, so having more of them will increase your capacity for trade, travel, and fishing
* S: -2 Econ; +1 Econ, +1 Econ Expansion, and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects
* M: -2 Econ, -1 Wealth, +1 Art; +1 Econ end of turn, +1 Econ, +1 Econ Expansion and Diplo next turn, additional effects,
* used 6 times
New Settlement - There are a few new sites that could have new settlements placed on them: northern Blackriver, far north-eastern Redhills, south of cataracts
* S: +1 Econ next turn, increases number Econ Expansion depending on environment
* M: +1 Econ and +1 Mysticism end of turn, increases Econ Expansion
Special: Main new settlement in south of cataracts or far north-eastern Redhills can produce new provinces. Far eastern Redhills will also give territorial continuity with your vassal and allow for their integration
New Trails - There are many settlements with only marginal trails, so more could be useful
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, other effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
Plant Poppies - Within some temple grounds there are gardens where the poppy grows, and the milk of the poppy can be harvested. Expanding production should have interesting effects.
*S: -1 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, +1 Mysticism, +1 Wealth
*M: -2 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +2 Wealth, +1 Martial, new trade good
Proclaim Glory - By using art the King can promote people to trust his decisions; modified by Diplomacy skill
* S: -2 Art, +1 Legitimacy
* M: -3 Art, -1 Econ, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
* Max Stability: Legitimacy
Restoration of Order - The people are uncertain, and into that uncertainty bad behaviour can flow. Send in the warriors to reassure people and root out corruption and dissent, restoring the proper function of the People, at the cost of disturbing their confidence that the king has their best interests at heart. Max Stability: Legitimacy-1
* S: Gain 0 to 2 Stability at a cost of -1 Legitimacy
* M: Roll twice, take best result
* modified by Administrative skill
Sailing Mission - Boats have proven themselves capable of exploring long distances, so what else might they discover along the shores of the sea?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Salt Gift - With the saltern, the People have access to tremendous amounts of salt, which can be used to awe outsiders
*S: -5 Wealth, random amount of Diplomacy, Art, and Prestige generated
*M: -5 Wealth, random amount of Diplomacy, Art, and Prestige generated (min. 1 of each) and the possibility of Mysticism generation
Study Alchemy - Materials can be made to transform their form through special treatment. What wonders can be discovered in this process?
*S: -1 Mysticism, -1 Wealth, potential new discoveries
*M: -2 Mysticism, -1 Wealth, -1 Econ, increased chance of new discoveries
Study Health - What secrets of nature can be used to improve the health of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, +1 Mysticism, improved odds of success
Study Metal - Iron and copper, gold and silver, what other secrets are hidden in metal and stone?
* S: -1 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Mysticism, improved chance of new insights
Study Stars - What secrets do the heavens hold when you study the stars and their motions carefully? 10 Uses, 2/4 Uses in a Row
*S: -1 Wealth, +2 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
Cannot be used as a Main action
Support Subordinate - Send resources over to a subordinate state to help prop them up.
*S: Transfer 1 Econ and Martial, +1 Econ Expansion
*M: Transfer 2 Econ and Martial, +1 Econ Expansion
Survey Lands - What interesting discoveries are within the People's lands?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success; used 2 times
Terrify - You've killed cities, walls will not keep your enemies safe
*M: -3 Diplo, can force minors to become vassals or integrate, can cause major civilizations to lose Stability
Special: Not applicable to nomads, efficiency greatly improved by performing a War Mission against the target the same turn
Warning: Crit fails can cause backlash, losing Stability
Trade Mission - Sending a major caravan to another large group can bring new opportunities and find out more about the outside world
* S: -1 Wealth, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn;
* M: -1 Wealth, -1 Econ, additional effects depending on target, +1 Diplo end of turn, +1-2 Diplo next turn, +0-1 Wealth next turn
War Mission - You can send raiding parties against groups that have declared themselves hostile. Can only declare war if you have a valid casus belli (currently only if someone declares war first)
* S: Potential loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial and Diplo
* M: Probable loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial, Diplo, and Econ, always has a mid-turn decision point
Extended Projects- Extended Projects are major infrastructure projects that take more than a single Main action to complete but aren't as all consuming as megaprojects
Saltern - Northshore Saltern Expansion (0/10), Southshore Saltern Expansion (0/10). Each {S} committed consumes 2 Econ for 2 Progress. Completion gives additional Diplomacy and every 2 salterns or expansions increases the per turn Diplomacy by +1
Aqueduct - Redshore (0/8), Lower Valleyhome (0/4), Stonepen (0/6), Blackmouth (0/8), Redhills (0/6). Each {S} committed consumes 2 Econ for 2 Progress. Completion adds +4 Econ Expansion and can allow for the formation of another True City
Temple - Progress listed below, each {S} committed consumes 2 Econ and 2 Art for 2 Progress. Completion increases Religious Authority
Library - Any location with a temple and/or True City status can have a library, with each {S} committed consuming 2 Art and 2 Mysticism for 2 progress. Completion grants Mysticism, every 2 libraries past the first increases the Mysticism refund by 1. Sacred Forest (0/4)
Reminder: 2 {S} applied to the same project = 1 {M}
Additionally: 2 Mains may have non-linear effects
Mega-Projects - Mega-Projects can require many generations to complete, take an unknown amount of time to do so, and drain Econ while active, but can produce massive benefits once complete. Once chosen, the occupy the Main Focus slot until either completed or stopped early. Early stopping once started does not refund any of the investments and increases social strife. To reduce confusion, mega-projects are not listed as part of the voting project list and must be "written-in".
The Census - How many People are there anyway? (4-6? action commitment, -2 Mysticism per action) [Reserves + Library]
The Games - Physical competition and prowess are becoming a popular pass time and way for warriors and militia to train. Could a special festival be founded to celebrate this? (4-6? action commitment, -1 Mysticism and Art per action, 2 Econ total commitment) [Elites]
Grand Docks - With the new docks in place, further expansion to something of a more significant scale could be of benefit (4-6? action commitment, -1 Econ per action, will likely require a significant supply of timber)
Grand Palace - The king's palace is not just a dwelling but a place of government, a stockpile for the People's needs, and a symbol of strength to outsiders (5-7? action commitment, -1 Econ and Art per action)
Great Dam - The river can run wild and dangerous when the rains come strong, but could it not be controlled by the same principles by which the water on the hills is channelled and contained, merely on a larger scale? (5-7? action commitment, -1 Econ per action)
Place to the Stars - The shamans have noticed deeper patterns among the stars than they ever imagined, and setting up long term memories of where things should be could be intensely useful, if also labour intensive to get sufficiently durable markers in place (7-10? action commitment, -1 Econ per action, some Mysticism commitment)
[Stewards] special kicker: Pay 1 Stability to double the effort on a megaproject action, consuming twice the required per turn resources but advancing the job faster. If taking a second main action on a megaproject, requires additional Stability payment to double that as well.
* S: -1 Wealth, +2 Art
* M: -1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +4 Art, +1 Prestige, potential innovations
Black Soil - There are many places that could benefit from further black soil, but making more is starting to take up more resources than it is currently returning
* S: -1 Econ, chance of +1 Econ next turn, +2-3 Econ Expansion
* M: +2-3 Econ Expansion
* used 3 times
Build Chariots - The vehicle of the elite, chariots are the most effective way of waging war the People know.
* S: -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, +2 Martial, +1 Art
*M: -1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +4 Martial, +1 Art
Build Docks - With large numbers of ships being built, a new place to store them all, the goods they bring in, and a place to build them might be a good idea
*S: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo, increased trade power
*M: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo, increased potential for new innovations, increased trade power
Build Glassworks - A new material discovered recently, new luxuries and trade goods could be made from relatively cheap materials
*S: -1 Econ, +1 Wealth, +1 Art, small chance of new innvoations
*M: -1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations
Build Mills - By harnessing the power of flowing water, work can be done, freeing up considerable amounts of labour
*S: -2 Wealth, -1 Art, +2 Econ, potential for innovation
*M: -3 Wealth, -1 Art, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation
Build Wall - The practice of building city walls has reached new heights with access to superior tools making the cutting of stone simpler (60% light walls, 30% significant walls, 10% massive walls)
*S: -1 Econ, +5% light walls
*M: -2 Econ, +5% significant walls
*2M: -4 Econ, +5% massive walls
Build Watchtowers - Stone and brick towers for warriors to sit in and scan the horizon for trouble, these towers can help stave off raids and improve response against attacks. (40% coverage)
*S: -1 Econ, +5% coverage
*M: -1 Econ, +10% coverage
Change Policy - Adjust the current Policy to one better fitting the situation
*S: Change Policy to one of the available ones listed below
Balanced - Takes whatever actions seem reasonable. Expand Economy is considered a Policy action for interaction with other effects
Defence - Builds walls and watchtowers
Expansion - Builds new settlements, expands economy, expands forests, and can even create new provinces
Infrastructure - Extended projects
Megaproject Support - Provinces can spend actions in support of a megaproject
Offence - Can recruit warriors and specialists, can send war actions against declared enemies
Progress - Takes studying actions and art patronage
Restoration - Takes stability improving actions
Spirits - Builds temples
Trade - Sends out trade missions, produce art and luxuries
Distribute Land - By reworking the distribution of land, the king can improve tax income and reduce pressures administrative overhead
*S: -1 Centralization, +1 Wealth
*M: -2 Centralization, +3 Wealth
Enforce Justice - The king is a servant of the law, and he can use the army to remind people of that fact [GJ]
* S: 1 Stability, +1-3 Centralization
* M: 1 to 2 Stability, +2-3 Centralization
* the more settlements with walls outside of the capital, particularly large walls, the less effective this action is
*Max Stability: Legitimacy
Expand Economy - Encourage the growth of food producing activities such as farming, pastures, or fishing, depending on where focus is placed
*S: +2 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, potential additional effects
*6 Econ Expansion available (max 12 to keep Sacred Forest True City; max 16 for Valleyhome)
Expand Forests - The People have knowledge of how to regrow and repair forests, which extends to bringing them to places they have never been, with considerable effort. With charcoal now in higher demand, can also provide a sustainable supply (7/8 currently locked up)
* S: -1 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, grows forest, +1 Econ next turn if in settled territory and controlled, potential discoveries
* M: -2 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, grows forest, +2 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory, improved odds of success
Expand Snail Cultivation - While now more reliably grown and harvested, the snail domestication has only managed to hold environmental changes at bay rather than increase production. More investment would increase cultivation
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Wealth
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Wealth, +1 Art, potential additional effects
Expand Vineyard - There is a location in Blackriver that is judged an ideal place to grow the small fruits that are favoured for making a particularly potent drink
*S: -1 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, +2 Wealth next turn
*M: -1 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, +1 Wealth, +1 Art
Expand Warriors - More men can be inducted into the ranks of the warriors every year and not face major food shortfalls
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
* M: -1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +3 Martial, +1 Art, potential additional effects
Found Colony - When a province gets too distant, sometimes it is best to grant it additional autonomy so that they can get down to the business of working the land and gathering resources without needing to talk to the king about every little thing. Current Target: Greenshore
*S: Change Greenshore Trading Post to a Colony
*M: 4 Econ Transfer, -2 Martial, founds colony to produce raw resources
Found March - Sometimes you need an extra buffer between you and hostile powers, or a place to stash excess warriors. Current Target: North-East
*M: -5 Martial, 2 Econ transfer, founds march to take independent martial actions
Found Mercenary Company - With new coinage, those who fight for less than savoury reasons can be bargained with more effectively. Paid well they can enhance your forces, or can be hired out to other groups, but beware of having them sit around without pay!
*M: -5 Martial, -1 Wealth per turn in your employ, +1 Wealth per turn if hired out to another group, or 0 Wealth per turn and adds directly to Martial score
Found Trading Post - When doing long distance trading, sometimes having your own infrastructure in place at the other end can be quite useful. Current Target: Far North (dangerous), Near Trelli (risky)
*M: -3 Diplo, -2 Wealth, 2 Econ Transfer, -2 Martial, founds trading post to generate Diplomacy
Influence Subordinate - By transferring specialists and teachers to subordinates they can be nudged into behaving more to the liking of the core provinces
*S: -2 Diplo, Transfer 1 Econ, Wealth, Art and Mysticism; influences subordinate culture
*M: -3 Diplo, Transfer 2 Econ, Wealth, Art and Mysticism; significantly influences subordinate culture
Integrate Colony - Part of the colony of Western Wall or Hatvalley can be integrated into the People more fully, transitioning from a Colony to a province
*M: -6 Diplomacy, gain Econ and Martial from integrating Colony
Integrate March - Better communications and administration means that the Stallion Tribes or Heaven's Hawk can be integrated into the People more fully, transitioning from a March to a province
*M: -6 Diplomacy, gain Econ and Martial from integrating March
Integrate Vassal - Now in contact with the core territories, the lowlanders can be brought more fully into the traditions of the People
*M: -4 Diplomacy, transitions vassal to March or Colony
*2M: -8 Diplomacy, transitions portion of vassal to full province, converts rest to March or Colony
Improve Annual Festival - A festival for every season, but their expansion can help put the People at ease and teach good practices.
* M: -1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +1 Stability, +2 Art, chance for additional effects
* 2M: -2 Econ, -2 Wealth, +1 Stability, +4 Art, chance for additional effects
* Max Stability: Legitimacy - 1
More Blackbirds - Elite scouts and woodsmen, the Blackbirds are a potent force, if not exactly mainline fighters. More of them could prove useful
* S: -1 Mysticism, -1 Wealth, +1 Martial, +1 Art, more Blackbirds
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, -1 Wealth, +2 Martial, +1 Art, many more Blackbirds, additional effects
More Carrion Eaters - Keepers of sacred and profane knowledge, the Carrion Eaters thread a dangerous path but bring valuable knowledge for treating wounds and inspiring courage, greatly bolstering the morale of warriors by ensuring them that their companions are not doomed if they fall. More could prove useful.
*S: -1 Mysticism, -1 Wealth, +1 Martial, +1 Art, more Carrion Eaters
*M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, -1 Wealth, +2 Martial, +1 Art, many more Carrion Eaters, additional effects
More Boats - The things are expensive but oh so useful, so having more of them will increase your capacity for trade, travel, and fishing
* S: -2 Econ; +1 Econ, +1 Econ Expansion, and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects
* M: -2 Econ, -1 Wealth, +1 Art; +1 Econ end of turn, +1 Econ, +1 Econ Expansion and Diplo next turn, additional effects,
* used 6 times
New Settlement - There are a few new sites that could have new settlements placed on them: northern Blackriver, far north-eastern Redhills, south of cataracts
* S: +1 Econ next turn, increases number Econ Expansion depending on environment
* M: +1 Econ and +1 Mysticism end of turn, increases Econ Expansion
Special: Main new settlement in south of cataracts or far north-eastern Redhills can produce new provinces. Far eastern Redhills will also give territorial continuity with your vassal and allow for their integration
New Trails - There are many settlements with only marginal trails, so more could be useful
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, other effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
Plant Poppies - Within some temple grounds there are gardens where the poppy grows, and the milk of the poppy can be harvested. Expanding production should have interesting effects.
*S: -1 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, +1 Mysticism, +1 Wealth
*M: -2 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +2 Wealth, +1 Martial, new trade good
Proclaim Glory - By using art the King can promote people to trust his decisions; modified by Diplomacy skill
* S: -2 Art, +1 Legitimacy
* M: -3 Art, -1 Econ, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
* Max Stability: Legitimacy
Restoration of Order - The people are uncertain, and into that uncertainty bad behaviour can flow. Send in the warriors to reassure people and root out corruption and dissent, restoring the proper function of the People, at the cost of disturbing their confidence that the king has their best interests at heart. Max Stability: Legitimacy-1
* S: Gain 0 to 2 Stability at a cost of -1 Legitimacy
* M: Roll twice, take best result
* modified by Administrative skill
Sailing Mission - Boats have proven themselves capable of exploring long distances, so what else might they discover along the shores of the sea?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Salt Gift - With the saltern, the People have access to tremendous amounts of salt, which can be used to awe outsiders
*S: -5 Wealth, random amount of Diplomacy, Art, and Prestige generated
*M: -5 Wealth, random amount of Diplomacy, Art, and Prestige generated (min. 1 of each) and the possibility of Mysticism generation
Study Alchemy - Materials can be made to transform their form through special treatment. What wonders can be discovered in this process?
*S: -1 Mysticism, -1 Wealth, potential new discoveries
*M: -2 Mysticism, -1 Wealth, -1 Econ, increased chance of new discoveries
Study Health - What secrets of nature can be used to improve the health of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, +1 Mysticism, improved odds of success
Study Metal - Iron and copper, gold and silver, what other secrets are hidden in metal and stone?
* S: -1 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Mysticism, improved chance of new insights
Study Stars - What secrets do the heavens hold when you study the stars and their motions carefully? 10 Uses, 2/4 Uses in a Row
*S: -1 Wealth, +2 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
Cannot be used as a Main action
Support Subordinate - Send resources over to a subordinate state to help prop them up.
*S: Transfer 1 Econ and Martial, +1 Econ Expansion
*M: Transfer 2 Econ and Martial, +1 Econ Expansion
Survey Lands - What interesting discoveries are within the People's lands?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success; used 2 times
Terrify - You've killed cities, walls will not keep your enemies safe
*M: -3 Diplo, can force minors to become vassals or integrate, can cause major civilizations to lose Stability
Special: Not applicable to nomads, efficiency greatly improved by performing a War Mission against the target the same turn
Warning: Crit fails can cause backlash, losing Stability
Trade Mission - Sending a major caravan to another large group can bring new opportunities and find out more about the outside world
* S: -1 Wealth, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn;
* M: -1 Wealth, -1 Econ, additional effects depending on target, +1 Diplo end of turn, +1-2 Diplo next turn, +0-1 Wealth next turn
War Mission - You can send raiding parties against groups that have declared themselves hostile. Can only declare war if you have a valid casus belli (currently only if someone declares war first)
* S: Potential loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial and Diplo
* M: Probable loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial, Diplo, and Econ, always has a mid-turn decision point
Extended Projects- Extended Projects are major infrastructure projects that take more than a single Main action to complete but aren't as all consuming as megaprojects
Saltern - Northshore Saltern Expansion (0/10), Southshore Saltern Expansion (0/10). Each {S} committed consumes 2 Econ for 2 Progress. Completion gives additional Diplomacy and every 2 salterns or expansions increases the per turn Diplomacy by +1
Aqueduct - Redshore (0/8), Lower Valleyhome (0/4), Stonepen (0/6), Blackmouth (0/8), Redhills (0/6). Each {S} committed consumes 2 Econ for 2 Progress. Completion adds +4 Econ Expansion and can allow for the formation of another True City
Temple - Progress listed below, each {S} committed consumes 2 Econ and 2 Art for 2 Progress. Completion increases Religious Authority
Library - Any location with a temple and/or True City status can have a library, with each {S} committed consuming 2 Art and 2 Mysticism for 2 progress. Completion grants Mysticism, every 2 libraries past the first increases the Mysticism refund by 1. Sacred Forest (0/4)
Reminder: 2 {S} applied to the same project = 1 {M}
Additionally: 2 Mains may have non-linear effects
Mega-Projects - Mega-Projects can require many generations to complete, take an unknown amount of time to do so, and drain Econ while active, but can produce massive benefits once complete. Once chosen, the occupy the Main Focus slot until either completed or stopped early. Early stopping once started does not refund any of the investments and increases social strife. To reduce confusion, mega-projects are not listed as part of the voting project list and must be "written-in".
The Census - How many People are there anyway? (4-6? action commitment, -2 Mysticism per action) [Reserves + Library]
The Games - Physical competition and prowess are becoming a popular pass time and way for warriors and militia to train. Could a special festival be founded to celebrate this? (4-6? action commitment, -1 Mysticism and Art per action, 2 Econ total commitment) [Elites]
Grand Docks - With the new docks in place, further expansion to something of a more significant scale could be of benefit (4-6? action commitment, -1 Econ per action, will likely require a significant supply of timber)
Grand Palace - The king's palace is not just a dwelling but a place of government, a stockpile for the People's needs, and a symbol of strength to outsiders (5-7? action commitment, -1 Econ and Art per action)
Great Dam - The river can run wild and dangerous when the rains come strong, but could it not be controlled by the same principles by which the water on the hills is channelled and contained, merely on a larger scale? (5-7? action commitment, -1 Econ per action)
Place to the Stars - The shamans have noticed deeper patterns among the stars than they ever imagined, and setting up long term memories of where things should be could be intensely useful, if also labour intensive to get sufficiently durable markers in place (7-10? action commitment, -1 Econ per action, some Mysticism commitment)
[Stewards] special kicker: Pay 1 Stability to double the effort on a megaproject action, consuming twice the required per turn resources but advancing the job faster. If taking a second main action on a megaproject, requires additional Stability payment to double that as well.
[] Art Patronage
[] Black Soil
[] Build Chariots
[] Build Docks
[] Build Glassworks
[] Build Mills
[] Build Wall
[] Build Watchtowers
[] Change Policy
[] Distribute Land
[] Enforce Justice
[] Expand Economy
[] Expand Forests
[] Expand Snail Cultivation
[] Expand Vineyard
[] Expand Warriors
[] Found March
[] Found Mercenary Company
[] Found Trading Post
[] Influence Subordinate
[] Integrate Colony
[] Integrate March
[] Integrate Vassal
[] Improve Annual Festival
[] More Blackbirds
[] More Carrion Eaters
[] More Boats
[] New Settlement
[] New Trails
[] Plant Poppies
[] Proclaim Glory
[] Restore Order
[] Sailing Mission
[] Salt Gift
[] Study Alchemy
[] Study Health
[] Study Metal
[] Study Stars
[] Survey Lands
[] Support Subordinate
[] Terrify
[] Trade Mission
-Target Options: Highland Kingdom, Thunder Speakers, Metal Miners, Lowland Minors, Northern Nomads, Into the Wild (Eastern Sea), Into the Wild
[] War Mission
-Target Options: Northern Nomads, Highlanders (Treachery), Thunder Speakers (Treachery), Thunder Horse, Swamp Folk
Provinces for Projects: Valleyhome, Redshore, Stonepen, Sacred Forest, Northshore, Blackriver, Redhills, Southshore, Hatriver, Ironshore
Major Holy Sites: Rainbow Trail (0/4), Sacred Forest (Temple 0/8), Holy Sea (0/4), Horse Valley (0/4), White Circle (0/4), Warrior's Rest (0/4), Star Mirror (0/4), Sunrise Grove (0/4), Skyforest (0/4), Bloodgrove (0/4), Spiritwell (0/4), Moonwell (0/4), Sparkling Cave (0/4)
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- Location
- Staring into the void
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- Location
- Leeds
We're going to need to prune down that list of actions at some point.
Its just out of hand.
Its just out of hand.
Da Boyz
The Cutest Apocalypse.
You know this is nice and provides an interesting outlook into the theology of the people...but the sheer wall-of-textness makes my eyes glaze over midway through the speech.
- Location
- Staring into the void
[X][Main] Grand Palace
[X][Secondary] Integrate March - Stallion Tribes
[X][Secondary] Integrate March - Stallion Tribes x2
We're still on offense policy
Edit: switched the order around, as this is the format that is being used by everyone else.
Edit 2: This is the other main vote.
[X][Main] Grand Palace
[X][Main] Grand Palace x2
[X][Secondary] Expand Econ
[X][Secondary] Integrate March - Stallion Tribes
[X][Secondary] Integrate March - Stallion Tribes x2
We're still on offense policy
Edit: switched the order around, as this is the format that is being used by everyone else.
Edit 2: This is the other main vote.
[X][Main] Grand Palace
[X][Main] Grand Palace x2
[X][Secondary] Expand Econ
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- Location
- Austria
Okay, soo, before any voting let's discuss our options.
As far as I can see, we can either double Main War Mission and switch to megaproject support for 2-turn Palace or leave Policy: Offensive and double Main Palace manually for 3-turn Palace, with Secondary reserved for, hm...ohhh.
Opinions?
As far as I can see, we can either double Main War Mission and switch to megaproject support for 2-turn Palace or leave Policy: Offensive and double Main Palace manually for 3-turn Palace, with Secondary reserved for, hm...ohhh.
oh fuck yes
Opinions?
Hyacinthium
Writing about sad cannibals as we speak.
- Location
- Bedroom
- Pronouns
- He/Him
bless
<3
bless
<3
bless
- Location
- United States
Can we finally get around to integrating the Stallions? I would hate for them to break away now that they're starting to get developed.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I only played Endless Legend and Dungeon of the Endless because the space 4x games I've played badly outclassed ES. EL had crappy AI but I'm a weak turtle of a player so I didn't mind.
My vote:
[X] [Main] Grand Palace
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Swamp People
[X] [Secondary] Build Temple - Sparkling Cave (if that's the dragonstone temple)
I figure that we just need to start heading off this tax thing and boosting our infrastructure. However, we also need to head off the northern split. The required war mission prevents us from doing both of these, and I prioritize the Palace because it will make administrating the shitton of land that integrating the ST will give us a lot easier. Thus, I want to head off the ST building their own temple.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
New subordinate actions, excellent. I'd like to transition the lowlanders to a Colony when we get a moment. If they're more geared to peaceful expansion it means we have to defend them more but it also means they're less likely to start shit on their own. Also, 3 colonies will give us a legacy focused on them.
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
it costs 11 stats for the main
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
quick get the stallions
- Location
- United States
Would this except Integrate March instead of Build Temple work?