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Paths of Civilization

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Susano said:
You don't need to go feudalist, though. Rome managed just fine. And as for the palace economy, well, let's see how long we can keep it.
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I'm not really pushing fuedalism. Something closer to Rome is what I think we should go for.

I disagree on the palace economy though; it makes our nation brittle. We need to ease out of command economy as we can, IMO.
 
pblur said:
I'm not really pushing fuedalism. Something closer to Rome is what I think we should go for.

I disagree on the palace economy though; it makes our nation brittle. We need to ease out of command economy as we can, IMO.
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I had argued for secondary distribute land to ease the burden, but we're about to integrate the Stallion Tribe...so...
 
Locking in as

[X][RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)
[X][Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X][Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X][Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X][High] Extra tribute (+2 Prestige, +2 Wealth, probably completes this turn)
[X][RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley
[X][React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X][City] No
[X][Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)​
 
Academia Nut said:
[X][RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)
[X][Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X][Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X][Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X][High] Extra tribute (+2 Prestige, +2 Wealth, probably completes this turn)
[X][RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley
[X][React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X][City] No
[X][Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)​
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No city. :(
 
ctulhuslp said:
That's way too YOLO for the thing nobody in administration had any experience with.
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The thread has been yelling all over how DL is corruption. Well, state Patronage Is bloody corrupt*. Its giving state resources to select persons for being in the states favour.

Double main would raise the option of privitisation, meaning that state corruption and political plays and machinations are removed from the equation. And meaning that the system fundematly changes, vastly reducing the adminstrive burden.



*or not depending on your position and ideology. Would likely be at least hipocritical though.
 
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PrimalShadow said:
Instead, you have private corruption and political plays.
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The private cannot be corrupt or political, that is the domain of the state. It's only so when the state is reaching its tentacles into it.

The private sets its own rules. The breakage of which is theft or blackmail not corruption, as to the rules being unpleasant, that is unrelated.
 
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maximillian said:
As for the ancients, not even thier grandest temples could come close to the sheer majesty and grand architecture of the gothic cathedrals and thier renaissance successors.
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....most European churches were imitating the Hagia Sophia, build by the East Roman Empire. Which was, AFAIK, not feudal in it's setup.

Nevermind that they were all trying to reach the gran projects built by the ancients.

maximillian said:
Secondary is just state Patronage, a double main is required for any measure of privitisation and actual systemic changes.
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Doing Secondaries eases the administration into it so we get to familiarize ourselves with the troubles this newfangled method brings. We already did it to mines and quarries. If the Wealth loss from the Tax Crisis gets too bad, we will probably bite the bullet already and Distribute Land to shore up the treasury.

But by that point we will likely have the palace and Census finished already, which should make it more controllable what happens.
 
ctulhuslp said:
No Support Subordinate and minimal Refugees.
I am not happy about this vote, but we'll see how it turns out.
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you can be as unhappy about is as you like, but get over it.

Seriously, this is why I started ignoring you, you go after everyone to defend their vote and declare said vote to be suboptimal, and when you the vote you don't want wins you get pissy about it. News flash, people can vote for what they want, and are under no obligation to defend their vote. Please knock it off.
 
Maximillan is roleplaying to some extent, so take every claim with a pinch of salt.
Sivantic said:
Minor nitpick, every large settlement has one. Only Main New Settlement have new holy sites.
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I asked before, AN said that every settlement, period, has a clinic staffed by one or two shamans who also do other work(it's unclear if they are trained in larger settlements and sent out to villages to staff them or if they just train suitable youths in their area directly, probably the latter due to shitty roads). Large settlements have a full shrine building with attendants, with dedicated priests to handle the theology and shamans to do the practical work. And then there's the Temple.
ctulhuslp said:
Yes, but one more step is not going to kill us, and some emergency Econ infusion is not going to hurt.
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We already know some seriously hard decisions are coming up. If we had just 2 more Stability going into the last tax crisis we could have 100%'ed it on the hardest mode...not that I advocate trying that particular stunt again, but it's valuable to keep in mind that for want of 2 Stability we couldn't get the perfect ending(2 less Grand Sacrifices, 1 less Expand Econ to pay for sacrifices, 2 more Holy Sites)
ctulhuslp said:
Plus, again, we have some Swamp refugees incoming. If we get at least some of their farming techniquest, we are going to benefit quite a lot from our lands and lowlands in general. And, tangentially, from the hypothetical Dam if we ever get around to building it.
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Incidentally, this is probably Chinampas.

In hindsight, the most likely way for the Xohyssiri to learn how to make Chinampas would be to copy it from their Swamp Folk vassals, where rice paddies are the norm.
 
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veekie said:
Maximillan is roleplaying to some extent, so take every claim with a pinch of salt.

I asked before, AN said that every settlement, period, has a clinic staffed by one or two shamans who also do other work. Large settlements have a full shrine building with attendants, with dedicated priests to handle the theology and shamans to do the practical work. And then there's the Temple.

We already know some seriously hard decisions are coming up. If we had just 2 more Stability going into the last tax crisis we could have 100%'ed it on the hardest mode...not that I advocate trying that particular stunt again, but it's valuable to keep in mind that for want of 2 Stability we couldn't get the perfect ending(2 less Grand Sacrifices, 1 less Expand Econ to pay for sacrifices, 2 more Holy Sites)

Incidentally, this is probably Chinampas.

In hindsight, the most likely way for the Xohyssiri to learn how to make Chinampas would be to copy it from their Swamp Folk vassals, where rice paddies are the norm.
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Well naturally.
I mean let's be honest here, the folks at the thread argue and analyse and debate and get into pissing matches where the winner gets the salt bucket as opposed to the losers silo.

Tis only the roleplayers, those who make a persona and stick with it to the very end who are the true winners of forums. For to them, win or lose, the ensemble plays and the masquerade continues in all its bueaty. The intriguing questions of what lies behind the mask only enhancing the performance.

Hence why we should all don the masks of the beasts, and with vim and vigour play for the sake of the game rather than the details or outcomes! Let us be free from the shackles of sanity, and with a resounding Baaaaaa! Commence the dance!
 
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@veekie - is your current plan to start the Palace Megaproject next turn, or were you thinking of doing the Library first? Or maybe even a resource gathering action or a stability improvement?
 
maximillian said:
Well, I am doing ideologue speak.
More seriously, I may very well be missusing words. Can you explain a bit?
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Corruption is any unethical or dishonest behavior by a person with authority. Personally, I think that the definition should include a line about it being in relation to said authority since the reason we use the word "corruption" is that is literally turns something that is supposed to be a net good into an evil, thus corrupting it, but the dictionary writers don't agree with me.

Regardless, while governmental corruption is easy to point out, that does not mean that a private person is incapable of it. The CEO that raids his company's pension account is a form of corruption. The security guard that deals drugs on his night shift is guilty of corruption. The (in this case private school) teacher that fudges her student's grades is practicing corruption. The employee that uses the company car to go on vacation is corrupt. The priest that advocates things they do not believe is corrupt. Corruption is pervasive and all encompassing. All it requires is some form of authority and unethical/dishonest behavior.

Frankly, if there weren't private forms of corruption, I would need a new job.
 
PrimalShadow said:
@veekie - is your current plan to start the Palace Megaproject next turn, or were you thinking of doing the Library first? Or maybe even a resource gathering action or a stability improvement?
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Library first personally if I can move it. It's easier to do simultaneous to the Stallion Integration, and if the stars don't align we can just drop it to a Secondary action(leaving us to finish it on the mid turn or at leisure with another secondary) and give us a secondary action to do a policy switch or something.
This gives us some freedom to pop Sacred Forest by gaining lots of Econ slots if that happens, since the library would keep running.

Still, going to sleep now. Odds are the update will be out 3 hours before I wake. So toodles~
 
pblur said:
I'm not really pushing fuedalism. Something closer to Rome is what I think we should go for.

I disagree on the palace economy though; it makes our nation brittle. We need to ease out of command economy as we can, IMO.
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This. So much this.

We need to move away from command economy.
Honestly, there is no reason why we can't have things the way we currently have, minus the dependency on the King.
 
2xMachina said:
This. So much this.

We need to move away from command economy.
Honestly, there is no reason why we can't have things the way we currently have, minus the dependency on the King.
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There kinda is? It is not just "dependency on the king". The issue is rather that currently, people work for the state, and the state in turn feeds them. We have guaranteed food for everyone in the population, to be distrubuted by the state. That is the base for our massive (and now straining) administration apparatus. So it isn't just "the King". It's our entire economy, our entire administration apparatus, our entire social order - our entire everything.
 
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