Pretty sure AN was hinting at a new WAUGH actually. I'm expecting our biggest test of dual marches to date. If no problems, we can actually expand north with near impunity till nomads get iron.
I was under the impression that we'd put these trading posts in the territory of other powers and make them protect it in exchange for easier access to trade with us, which will only be even more valuable once we solidify our Salt and Dye dominance and finally create Vineyards and get Wine dominance
Pretty sure AN was hinting at a new WAUGH actually. I'm expecting our biggest test of dual marches to date. If no problems, we can actually expand north with near impunity till nomads get iron.
Definite rumblings, but it might just be a generalized migration not lead by a Warboss. Course if it goes long enough it will self-generate said Warboss...
Pretty sure AN was hinting at a new WAUGH actually. I'm expecting our biggest test of dual marches to date. If no problems, we can actually expand north with near impunity till nomads get iron.
Maybe if they're struggling a bit we can shoot two birds with one stone and set up another March? It'd drop us out of Military overflow for a bit and ensure they don't get swamped
So the revelation that overflowing everything but Econ into Econ leads to taking up Econ slots due to people being so impressed with your civilization that they move here got me thinking. Taking in refugees through CA can lead to stability hits. What about overflow into Econ, with that fluff you'd think there was a possibility. Well coincidentally I've been going through old posts of AN and came across this:
"Make their current economic-cultural systems look less appealing than yours". Am I crazy or is this a way of referring to overflowing Diplo, Art, and Mysticism into Econ? If so, this would answer my question: it doesn't lead to stability hits, because people want to move here SO BAD due to wealth that they are willing to assimilate much easier, presumably leading to no stability loss.
I was under the impression that we'd put these trading posts in the territory of other powers and make them protect it in exchange for easier access to trade with us, which will only be even more valuable once we solidify our Salt and Dye dominance and finally create Vineyards and get Wine dominance
So the revelation that overflowing everything but Econ into Econ leads to taking up Econ slots due to people being so impressed with your civilization that they move here got me thinking. Taking in refugees through CA can lead to stability hits. What about overflow into Econ, with that fluff you'd think there was a possibility. Well coincidentally I've been going through old posts of AN and came across this:
"Make teir current economic-cultural systems look less appealing than yours". Am I crazy or is this a way of referring to overflowing Diplo, Art, and Mysticism into Econ? If so, this would answer my question: it doesn't lead to stability hits, because people want to move here SO BAD due to wealth that they are willing to assimilate much easier, presumably leading to no stability loss.
[X][Temple] Fythhagyna and Crow
[X][Crow] Alien but knowable
[X][Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X][Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X][CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
The king discovered a funny thing while vaguely paying attention to the arguments about the spirits and the gods the shamans were having: the shamans who worked among the common People tended to prefer Fythhagyna as the central god to actually pray and sacrifice to, but the higher level shamans who tended to deal with the more esoteric stuff really liked Crow as their central figure.
Really liked Crow.
Eventually the king had to step in and set a deadline to give an answer or he would choose, just so that the work could continue and he wouldn't have to continue authorizing the deployment of warriors to break up the small but vigorous riots that kept breaking out among red faced elders. Fortunately the rest of the People seemed more bemused than upset by this.
It was then discovered that among some shamans, a day ended at daybreak and among others it ended at sunset, so there was some slight confusion among the delegates for the final debate as to whether or not everyone had arrived at time and then...
So after putting his foot down one last time the king declared, "Fine! Since Crow has clearly set upon you quarrels over this, I declare it divine will that both are to be at the centre of the temple!"
A shaman raised a hand and then asked, "Which one is bigger?"
The other shamans around that man slowly inched away as the king attempted to channel the fury of the gods through his eyeballs and smite the man via glare alone, before he ground out, "Crow is a bird, right? So he'll be smaller but above Fythhagyna."
There was a quiet moment as the shaman considered this before he said, "That sounds fair."
And there was much grumbling and murmuring and general agreement that they could all live with that.
"Uhhh... which aspect of Crow?" Someone in the crowd asked.
"Will Fythhagyna have clothes, because if she does I find that offensive!" Someone else called out.
The king just sort of stared as a fresh bout of arguments broke out, before he just threw up his hands and started to walk away, glaring daggers at the Spirit Chief. After a moment of just walking and glaring he said, "You know what, my successor can figure this one out. The arrangement of the rest of the idols can be worked out from here, right?"
"Yes," the Spirit Chief answered.
"Good. The design of the central statue can be finalized later, but with everything else ready we can begin construction in earnest while you guys figure out what designs you want for Crow and Fythhagyna," the king said, slowly cooling himself off as he walked.
"Yes," the Spirit Chief agreed.
"I know what the arguments about Crow are going to be, so tell me how the arguments about Fythhagyna are going to shake out. She's always just been a woman in a shift with a sickle and bundle of grain to me," the king asked as he lead the two of them out to a garden where they could sit and talk in relative peace. The two men exiting the building caused birds to take flight, but neither man caught the species and the potential omens of that.
"Well... okay, we didn't realize how divergent things were in some places, but in essence there are a couple of competing ideas. To some she is more of a mother and they thus prefer that she be depicted pregnant and/or breastfeeding. To others she is seen of as being a bit older and wiser and is more of a matronly figure, not an elder but certainly not a young mother either, and depicting her as younger gets under some people's collars. Then there are some who see her as being more about the harvest while others see her more about fertility. The latter group are usually the ones who bring up not liking clothing as they see her as being closer to nature and they feel that depicting her with any more trappings of civilization than a sickle is an interference with her function. Those that seen her as being more matronly are the ones who get into fights with the nudity ones most often," the Spirit Chief explained.
"Right..." the king said, sighing as he considered all of this. Somewhere in the distance a bird could be heard.
Which aspect of Crow?
[] [Crow] Teacher
[] [Crow] Trickster
[] [Crow] Devourer
[] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
Which aspect of Fythhagyna?
[] [Fyth] Mother
[] [Fyth] Matron
[] [Fyth] Harvest
[] [Fyth] Fertility
The king had fortunately listened to the old stories of the hubris and kings and thus did not tempt Crow by asking aloud "What else could go wrong?" and was thus rewarded by the deployment of warriors cleaning up several gangs, found instances of corruption, and generally shaped things up. And the year after the decision on the central figure in the holy site was made, good strong rains came to the north and the rains in the south were less terrible. The northern provinces told the nomads this and while there were a few minor raids, that was to be expected, and the majority seemed to decide that if the grass was growing, the southerners were willing to trade, and the southerners retained large numbers of sharp objects, they were willing to leave things be for the time being.
Meanwhile a fresh pulse of refugees came in from the south, and mixed in among them was a copper worker from the Thunder Horse who had been brought along to help maintain their equipment, only to get left behind during a battle and nearly starved. He revealed the truth behind the stronger version of copper the Thunder Horse were using: it was copper, but if you introduced another ore into the metal when it was liquid it made the copper much harder and stronger. Too much and it would be brittle, too little and it would be closer to regular copper in strength. There were a few other ores that could be used, legends told that the first versions were just like that when the copper was initially smelted, but the best and least toxic results that produced the dark brown metal harder than iron came from introducing dark crystals into the mix. Of course, when the People started working out how much of this material the Thunder Horse had, they realized that while bronze was better than iron, it wasn't so much better that the tiny supplies of tin available made bronze in any way a good choice for the People outside of perhaps some specialist tools or gear for the highest level elite warriors.
Still, a useful metal to have, and perhaps the same principle of adding something increasing strength applied to iron?
In any case, all around definite reasons to celebrate, and the new drink coming out of the vineyards of the north was certainly a great way to improve a party!
Art Patronage - Wealth of the first and second kind can be used to create wealth of the third kind to the benefit of all
* S: -1 Econ, +2 Art
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Art, +1 Prestige, potential innovations
Black Soil - Production is now regular and huge amounts of trash are turned to black soil every year, but there's always room for more production [Shapers] [King]
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Econ next turn, additional effects
* M: +1 Econ, additional effects
* used 2 times
Build Chariots - The vehicle of the elite, chariots are the most effective way of waging war the People know.
* S: -1 Econ, +2 Martial
*M: -2 Econ, +4 Martial
Build Docks - With large numbers of ships being built, a new place to store them all, the goods they bring in, and a place to build them might be a good idea
*S: -1 Econ, +2 Diplo, potential for new innovations
*M: -1 Econ, +3 Diplo, increased potential for new innovations, increased trade power
Build Wall - The practice of building city walls has reached new heights with access to superior tools making the cutting of stone simpler (50% light walls, 25% significant walls, 10% massive walls)
*S: -1 Econ, +5% light walls
*M: -2 Econ, +5% significant walls
*2M: -4 Econ, +5% massive walls
Build Watchtowers - Stone and brick towers for warriors to sit in and scan the horizon for trouble, these towers can help stave off raids and improve response against attacks. (40% coverage)
*S: -1 Econ, +5% coverage
*M: -1 Econ, +10% coverage
Change Policy - Adjust the current Policy to one better fitting the situation
*S: Change Policy to one of the available ones listed below Balanced - Takes whatever actions seem reasonable. Expand Economy is considered a Policy action for interaction with other effects
Defence - Builds walls and watchtowers
Expansion - Builds new settlements, expands economy, expands forests, and can even create new provinces
Infrastructure - Extended projects
Megaproject Support - Provinces can spend actions in support of a megaproject
Offence - Can recruit warriors and specialists, can send war actions against declared enemies
Progress - Takes studying actions and art patronage
Restoration - Takes stability improving actions
Spirits - Expands Holy Sites
Trade - Sends out trade missions, produce art and luxuries
Enforce Justice - The king is a servant of the law, and he can use the army to remind people of that fact [GJ]
* S: 1 Stability, +1-3 Centralization
* M: 1 to 2 Stability, +2-3 Centralization
* the more settlements with walls outside of the capital, particularly large walls, the less effective this action is
*Max Stability: Legitimacy
Expand Economy - Encourage the growth of food producing activities such as farming, pastures, or fishing, depending on where focus is placed
*S: +2 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion potential additional effects
* 4 Econ Expansion available (max 11 to keep Valleyhome True City status)
Expand Forests - The People have knowledge of how to regrow and repair forests, which extends to bringing them to places they have never been, with considerable effort. With charcoal now in higher demand, can also provide a sustainable supply (3/4 currently locked up)
* S: -1 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, grows forest, +1 Econ next turn if in settled territory and controlled
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, grows forest, +2 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory
Expand Holy Sites - The current places dedicated to the spirits and wisdom have accumulated interesting objects and tellers of stories, but they could be made a bit better
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Mysticism
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Mysticism, +1 Art, potential additional effects
Expand Snail Cultivation - While now more reliably grown and harvested, the snail domestication has only managed to hold environmental changes at bay rather than increase production. More investment would increase cultivation
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Diplo, potential additional effects
Expand Vineyard - There is a location in Blackriver that is judged an ideal place to grow the small fruits that are favoured for making a particularly potent drink
*S: -1 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, +2 Diplo next turn
*M: -1 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, +2 Diplo
Expand Warriors - More men can be inducted into the ranks of the warriors every year and not face major food shortfalls
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Martial, potential additional effects
Found Colony - When a province gets too distant, sometimes it is best to grant it additional autonomy so that they can get down to the business of working the land and gathering resources without needing to talk to the king about every little thing. Current Target: None
*M: -4 Econ, -2 Martial, +4 Econ Expansion, founds colony to produce raw resources
Found March - Sometimes you need an extra buffer between you and hostile powers, or a place to stash excess warriors. Current Target: North-East
*M: -5 Martial, -2 Econ, +2 Econ Expansion, founds march to take independent martial actions
Found Trading Post - When doing long distance trading, sometimes having your own infrastructure in place at the other end can be quite useful. Current Target: Greenshore River Mouth
*M: -5 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Martial, +2 Econ Expansion, founds trading post to generate Diplomacy
Integrate March - Better communications and administration means that the Stallion Tribes or Western Wall can be integrated into the People more fully, transitioning from a March to a province
*M: -6 Diplomacy, gain Econ and Martial from integrating March
Improve Annual Festival - A festival for every season, but their expansion can help put the People at ease and teach good practices.
* M: -2 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art chance for additional effects
* 2M: -3 Econ, +1 Stability, +3 Art, chance for additional effects
* Max Stability: Legitimacy - 1
More Blackbirds - Elite scouts and woodsmen, the Blackbirds are a potent force, if not exactly mainline fighters. More of them could prove useful
* S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial more Blackbirds
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +2 Martial, many more Blackbirds, additional effects
More Carrion Eaters - Keepers of sacred and profane knowledge, the Carrion Eaters thread a dangerous path but bring valuable knowledge for treating wounds and inspiring courage, greatly bolstering the morale of warriors by ensuring them that their companions are not doomed if they fall. More could prove useful.
*S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, more Carrion Eaters
*M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +2 Martial, many more Carrion Eaters, additional effects
More Boats - The things are expensive but oh so useful, so having more of them will increase your capacity for trade, travel, and fishing
* S: -2 Econ; +1 Econ, +1 Econ Expansion, and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects
* M: -2 Econ; +1 Econ end of turn, +1 Econ, +1 Econ Expansion and Diplo next turn, additional effects,
* used 6 times
New Settlement - There are a few new sites that could have new settlements placed on them: northern Blackriver, south-eastern Redhills
* S: +1 Econ next turn, increases number Econ Expansion depending on environment
* M: +1 Econ and +1 Mysticism end of turn, increases Econ Expansion
New Trails - There are many settlements with only marginal trails, so more could be useful
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, other effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
Proclaim Glory - By using art the King can promote people to trust his decisions; modified by Diplomacy skill
* S: -2 Art, +1 Legitimacy
* M: -3 Art, -1 Econ, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
* Max Stability: Legitimacy
Restoration of Order - The people are uncertain, and into that uncertainty bad behaviour can flow. Send in the warriors to reassure people and root out corruption and dissent, restoring the proper function of the People. Max Stability: 0 or Legitimacy, whichever is lower * S: Gain -1 to 2 Stability * M: Roll twice, take best result * modified by Administrative skill
Sailing Mission - Boats have proven themselves capable of exploring long distances, so what else might they discover along the shores of the sea?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Salt Gift - With the saltern, the People have access to tremendous amounts of salt, which can be used to awe outsiders
*S: -5 Diplomacy, random amount of Diplomacy, Art, and Prestige generated
*M: -5 Diplomacy, random amount of Diplomacy, Art, and Prestige generated (min. 1 of each) and the possibility of Mysticism generation
Study Forests - The holy site within the sacred forest is the repository of lore on the forests and the things within them, but could the shamans learn more? 1 Use
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Health - What secrets of nature can be used to improve the health of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Metal - Iron and copper, gold and silver, what other secrets are hidden in metal and stone?
* S: -1 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
* M: -1 Econ, -2 Mysticism, improved chance of new insights
Study Stars - What secrets do the heavens hold when you study the stars and their motions carefully? 10 Uses, 4 Uses in a Row
*S: +1 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
Cannot be used as a Main action
Study Tailings - Tailings pits are toxic, but there are some fascinating items within
*S: -1 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
* M: -1 Econ, -2 Mysticism, improved chance of new insights
Support Subordinate - Send resources over to a subordinate state to help prop them up.
*S: Transfer 1 Econ and Martial, +1 Econ Expansion
*M: Transfer 2 Econ and Martial, +1 Econ Expansion
Survey Lands - What interesting discoveries are within the People's lands?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success; used 1 time
Trade Mission - Sending a major caravan to another large group can bring new opportunities and find out more about the outside world
* S: -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn;
* M: -1 Diplo, -1 Econ, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of turn, +1-2 Diplo next turn
War Mission - You can send raiding parties against groups that have declared themselves hostile. Can only declare war if you have a valid casus belli (currently only if someone declares war first)
* S: Potential loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial and Diplo
* M: Probable loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial, Diplo, and Econ, always has a mid-turn decision point
Extended Projects- Extended Projects are major infrastructure projects that take more than a single Main action to complete but aren't as all consuming as megaprojects Saltern - Northshore Saltern Expansion (0/10), Southshore Saltern (0/6). Each {S} committed consumes 2 Econ for 2 Progress. Completion gives additional Diplomacy and every 2 salterns or expansions increases the per turn Diplomacy by +1 Aqueduct - Redshore (0/8), Lower Valleyhome (0/4), Stonepen (0/6), Blackmouth (0/8), Sacred Forest (0/4), Redhills (0/6). Each {S} committed consumes 2 Econ for 2 Progress. Completion adds +4 Econ Expansion and can allow for the formation of another True City
Reminder: 2 {S} applied to the same project = 1 {M}
Additionally: 2 Mains may have non-linear effects
Special: Due to acquiring a new luxury, the Improve Festival action is currently twice as action efficient (1S = 1M, 1M = 2M)
Mega-Projects - Mega-Projects can require many generations to complete, take an unknown amount of time to do so, and drain Econ while active, but can produce massive benefits once complete. Once chosen, the occupy the Main Focus slot until either completed or stopped early. Early stopping once started does not refund any of the investments and increases social strife. To reduce confusion, mega-projects are not listed as part of the voting project list and must be "written-in".
The Games - Physical competition and prowess are becoming a popular pass time and way for warriors and militia to train. Could a special festival be founded to celebrate this? (4-6? action commitment, -1 Mysticism and Art per action, 2 Econ total commitment) [Elites]
Grand Palace - The king's palace is not just a dwelling but a place of government, a stockpile for the People's needs, and a symbol of strength to outsiders (5-7? action commitment, -1 Econ and Art per action) Great Temple - With the ability to cut larger and larger blocks of stone and still shape it precisely, fantastically larger complexes to the gods and spirits can be raised (2/5-7? action commitment, -1 Econ and Art per action)
Great Dam - The river can run wild and dangerous when the rains come strong, but could it not be controlled by the same principles by which the water on the hills is channelled and contained, merely on a larger scale? (5-7? action commitment, -1 Econ per action)
The Library - The People need to store ideas, not records [LoW] [King] (4-6? Action commitment, -1 Mysticism and -1 Art per action, 2 Econ total commitment)
The Mountain - What greater display of strength can the People make than to pile stone upon stone so as to create an artificial mountain that all can see? [King] (8-14? Action commitment, -1 Econ per action)
Place to the Stars - The shamans have noticed deeper patterns among the stars than they ever imagined, and setting up long term memories of where things should be could be intensely useful, if also labour intensive to get sufficiently durable markers in place (7-10? action commitment, -1 Econ per action, some Mysticism commitment)
[Stewards] special kicker: Pay 1 Stability to double the effort on a megaproject action, consuming twice the required per turn resources but advancing the job faster. If taking a second main action on a megaproject, requires additional Stability payment to double that as well.
Two secondary actions available, currently working on Great Temple for the next 3-5 turns
[] Art Patronage
[] Black Soil
[] Build Chariots
[] Build Docks
[] Build Wall
[] Build Watchtowers
[] Change Policy
[] Enforce Justice
[] Expand Economy
[] Expand Forests
[] Expand Holy Sites
[] Expand Snail Cultivation
[] Expand Vineyard
[] Expand Warriors
[] Found March
[] Integrate March
[] Improve Annual Festival
[] More Blackbirds
[] More Carrion Eaters
[] More Boats
[] New Settlement
[] New Trails
[] Proclaim Glory [] Restore Order
[] Sailing Mission
[] Salt Gift
[] Study Forests
[] Study Health
[] Study Metal
[] Study Stars
[] Study Tailings
[] Survey Lands
[] Support Subordinate
[] Trade Mission
-Target Options: Highland Kingdom, Thunder Speakers, Metal Miners, Lowland Minors, Hathatyn, Xohyssiri, Thunder Horse, Eastern Nomads, Into the Wild (Eastern Sea), Into the Wild
[] War Mission
-Target Options: Northern Nomads, Eastern Nomads
Provinces for Projects: Valleyhome, Redshore, Stonepen, Sacred Forest, Northshore, Blackriver, Redhills, Southshore
Major Holy Sites: Rainbow Trail, Sacred Forest, Holy Sea, Horse Valley, White Circle, Warrior's Rest, Star Mirror, Sunrise Grove, Skyforest, Bloodgrove, Spiritwell
[X] [Temple] Crow
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Found March in the North-East
[X] [CA] Open the borders and granaries (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
After some thought, I'm going to go with this.
I think there is some concern that if we claim Crow is "alien but knowable" that we open ourselves up to the possibility of a High Priest/High Sham, but this is a vote hoping for merging during this time before the Great Library and things are still in flux. Like the merging of the king and the High Shaman and the merging of Crow and Mathulmyn, the God of Kings. Basically, it's the idea that since the king/high priest is so spiritual, he knows the otherwise unknowable Crow who in turn advises/teaches him.
It essentially gives them a way to rationalize hero units.
[X] [Temple] Crow
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Found March in the North-East
[X] [CA] Open the borders and granaries (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
After some thought, I'm going to go with this.
I think there is some concern that if we claim Crow is "alien but knowable" that we open ourselves up to the possibility of a High Priest/High Sham, but this is a vote hoping for merging during this time before the Great Library and things are still in flux. Like the merging of the king and the High Shaman and the merging of Crow and Mathulmyn, the God of Kings. Basically, it's the idea that since the king/high priest is so spiritual, he knows the otherwise unknowable Crow who in turn advises/teaches him.
It essentially gives them a way to rationalize hero units.
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Found Trading Post - Greenshore River Mouth
[X] [Secondary] Found Trading Post - Greenshore River Mouth x2
"Well... okay, we didn't realize how divergent things were in some places, but in essence there are a couple of competing ideas. To some she is more of a mother and they thus prefer that she be depicted pregnant and/or breastfeeding. To others she is seen of as being a bit older and wiser and is more of a matronly figure, not an elder but certainly not a young mother either, and depicting her as younger gets under some people's collars. Then there are some who see her as being more about the harvest while others see her more about fertility. The latter group are usually the ones who bring up not liking clothing as they see her as being closer to nature and they feel that depicting her with any more trappings of civilization than a sickle is an interference with her function. Those that seen her as being more matronly are the ones who get into fights with the nudity ones most often," the Spirit Chief explained.
[] [Fyth] Mother
Women as a source of babies. Likely to lead to misogyny, not preferable.
[] [Fyth] Matron
Women as a source of knowledge. Likely to emphasize hygiene and caring over time.
[] [Fyth] Harvest
Honestly not really about women, sort of just about harvesting stuff.
[] [Fyth] Fertility
The above but makes it applicable to different things, fights civilizational aspects leading to a Dionysian/maenad flare.
Torn between Matron and Fertility. We've already put her in the woods rather than Valleyhome, though...
