Don't blame me, I pushed for Study Forest.
Basically a lot of people really like wine. And with the warning that waiting too long will mean that vineyard's land will be taken up by other economic activity, they rallied and pushed it through.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Basically a lot of people really like wine. And with the warning that waiting too long will mean that vineyard's land will be taken up by other economic activity, they rallied and pushed it through.
- Location
- United States
Too late to vote
though occupational won.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
.... what?
expedience. Besides, wine is a helpful bribe to make people stfu.
It is neither of those things, yes.
It's kinda-sorta within the boundaries of the MW, however, and has 1/6 of our total martial force, so it should be quite safe. Furthermore, if it *does* get attacked that will just give us an appropriate casus belli to go and invade that entire area.
As far as I can tell from the Econ and Martial cost, it isn't really an embassy, it's more of a colony with a largely diplomatic goal. So if we just leave it running it will probably/hopefully expand.
It's worthwhile to build it because of the tech gains and steady diplomancy that it performs upon the MW.
- Location
- United States
Well, the diplomacy we get will go towards art...which will overflow to mysticism. Not bad considering the mega project to-do list.
- Location
- Illinois
Inb4 we critted the vineyard action, which means we finished it this turn. This then causes the guy behind nearly starting a war to get so drunk that he spills all his plans to one of our blackbirds that was enforcing justice.
It also causes the formation of the guilds to be smoothed by requiring everyone who votes to be completely drunk before doing so, making it impossible to actually predict who will be chosen to lead.
Our shamans then have a revelation: being drunk solves many problems.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Even in that eventuality it would still need to get stuff back to us and from us to them so...Right, totally forgot that it'll be at GreenMouth. For some reason I thought the trading post would be inside the metal worker's city.
Brilliant.
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Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Good point on the boat tech; i'm rather in favor of this now
Though to be fair, the +1 diplo a turn is neither immediate nor guaranteed:
Questions and changes
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X][CA] Xohyssiri
[X][Clan] Roll back, institute occupational administration within Valleyhome (Possibility of stability loss)
[X][Main] Great Temple
[X][Secondary] Build Vineyard
[X][Secondary] Enforce Justice
Provinces [Main] Expand Econ, [Main] More Boats, [Sec] Study Stars
Stallions [Main] Expand Forest, [Sec] Trade Mission - Eastern Nomads, [Sec] Survey
Wall [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Walls, [Sec] Trade Mission - Northern Nomads
The king decided to disengage from the messy business of his predecessors, withdrawing the changes to just within Upper Valleyhome, where all the problems had been concentrated anyways. Given that a full generation had not yet passed under the new system this went relatively smoothly, with a minimal disruption to the system. Within Upper Valleyhome itself the decision was made to have the artisans basically administer themselves, with the more senior and experienced members of a particular group coordinating to make sure that the junior members were cared for. Overall, the People liked it, as smiths obviously had different infrastructure needs than potters and now they felt like their concerns could be addressed to the king as a cohesive group instead of filtering up through senior clan members who might not understand the situation. The new occupational management also integrated nicely with some of the new ideas circulating from distance trade with the Xohyssiri.
Centre of Trade
By controlling access to resources you can get other people to come to you with their resources, enriching you.
Pros: Gain bonus Diplomacy a turn for dominating certain forms of trade, early access to more advanced mechanics
Cons: Others entering your markets prompts anger and strife
Trade Status
As this new system started to settle in with considerably greater success than the last one, the People also began to tackle a number of deep questions that the construction of the new holy site expansion in Sacred Forest was bringing up. As the foundation was being laid and art to fill the structure with being made, the planners ran into a most peculiar question that they had to address before they went further.
What spirit went at the centre?
It was a rather tricky question to answer, in that while Crow was obviously the most important overall to the People, he wasn't necessarily the most important god to pray to, and that changed the dynamics more than a little. No matter what happened Crow would obviously be among the most important representation - there was a very strong argument that rather than a representation being the centrepiece of the site they should instead paint Crow's image on the ceiling to demonstrate that he was above all other spirits and yet also separated from them. There were three other strong choices however: Gwy and Gyo, who while not typically worshiped as gods would make fine centres as the progenitors of all but Crow; Fythhagyna, the Goddess of the Harvest and obviously a god who could never receive too much veneration but was also perhaps the not most politically important of spirits; and finally the heterodoxy but widely worshiped in one way or another deity of Mathulmyn, God of Kings.
Not - necessarily - the King of Gods though, although some conceptualized the deity in that way. No, Mathulmyn was instead the Greater Spirit the People prayed to in order that the king rule wisely... or at least not be an idiot. Mathulmyn was thus variously conceived of as a king passing on experience, a wizened advisor giving good counsel, or a consort who could rein in the impulses of the king. Discussing among themselves, the shamans had realized that while the forms varied, Mathulmyn was perhaps the most worshiped and prayed to deity among all the People. Sometimes you didn't want Crow's attention, but everyone wanted the king not to do stupid things. It was just that the spirit didn't quite have the age of worship as the others so while always in the People's thoughts, the god was often the second thought when thinking of spirits.
Who shall receive central placement within the new temple?
[] [Temple] Crow
[] [Temple] Gwy and Gyo
[] [Temple] Fythhagyna
[] [Temple] Mathulmyn
Another argument that had bubbled over with surprising ferocity was the nature of Crow, with the shamans realizing that they all had somewhat different ideas about the fundamental nature of Crow in all of his forms, and that also influenced the artwork they were getting in. Some saw the trickster and creator as being fundamentally benevolent in nature, with actions having a surface level cruelty leading to lessons with an ultimately good outcome. Others saw Crow as a being whose actions were primarily for his own cruel amusement, with the good beneath the bad being another layer of the joke. Still others conceived of Crow as having inscrutable motives that the People simply could not understand, moving towards goals that were his alone. A final group argued that Crow's true nature was unknown but not unknowable.
The king mostly left them to their slap fights over that and would just nod along when they reached consensus.
What is the nature of Crow?
[] [Crow] Benevolent
[] [Crow] Prankster
[] [Crow] Alien and unknowable
[] [Crow] Alien but knowable
Down south the war over the lowlands continued to be a slap-fest between all contenders, with the Highlanders maintaining a strategy of slowly grinding up the raiding forces sent at them while the Thunder Horse and their vassals were still able to dominate the field via overwhelming numbers, for the most part. Elsewhere the Metal Workers and Hathatyn seemed to be independently working out whatever secret the Thunder Horse had for the weapons their elites used, although they were fairly clearly keeping it secret. Still, more than a few pointed out that the variation on copper seemed to make for extraordinarily useful tools in small numbers, so figuring it out should be rather useful.
Meanwhile, the new push for boat building was producing a new round of ideas among the builders as they had the opportunity to implement some of the ideas that had been circulating for the past few generations with the more sedate constructions. New designs were being tried out, and while many of them didn't work, the builders were settling upon the features they found most useful for this latest generation.
Choose a trait for boats
[] [Boats] Speed
[] [Boats] Size
[] [Boats] Portability
[] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
However, as the seasons rolled on, a change started to settle into the air. The summers got hotter and the rainy season shorter. For a time the People were relatively unconcerned, they had dealt with droughts before, but by the third year of poor rainfall concern began to rise. Harvests were getting increasingly poor, and more and more people from outside were starting to wander into the People's territory looking for help. While the People gave freely, it was fairly obvious that trouble was brewing. The king was already trying to make sure that the various injustices and law violations that had spun out from the ill-fated experiment in changing the clan adoption rules, as the drought deepened and the fields and forests became increasingly stressed, the People grew increasingly anxious. What had happened, what had gone wrong?
Drought!
Payouts delayed, stability lost
While the king was seeking to work out what to do, messengers from the furthest provinces brought troubling news. While they had made some peaceful contact with the new tribes that were filtering into the region vacated generations ago, the drought was pushing far enough north to begin stressing the nomads as well, and when the nomads got stressed their tolerance for peaceful interaction with outsiders plummeted. An increase in raid activity was inevitable, and they pleaded for further fortification of the frontier in preparation. Of course there were other demands upon the resources of the People in these trying times, but they did make a convincing argument that another province in the north that would ensure protection in all directions would be useful.
Drought response?
[] [Drought] Found March in the North-East
[] [Drought] Ensure proper behaviour (Main Enforce Justice)
[] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[] [Drought] Bring more land under cultivation (Main Expand Econ)
Refugee Response?
[] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[] [CA] Open the borders and granaries (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
[] [CA] Bring in as many as possible (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, other effects)
AN: Main page may take a bit longer than usual to update this turn, don't worry about it too much
[X][Clan] Roll back, institute occupational administration within Valleyhome (Possibility of stability loss)
[X][Main] Great Temple
[X][Secondary] Build Vineyard
[X][Secondary] Enforce Justice
Provinces [Main] Expand Econ, [Main] More Boats, [Sec] Study Stars
Stallions [Main] Expand Forest, [Sec] Trade Mission - Eastern Nomads, [Sec] Survey
Wall [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Walls, [Sec] Trade Mission - Northern Nomads
The king decided to disengage from the messy business of his predecessors, withdrawing the changes to just within Upper Valleyhome, where all the problems had been concentrated anyways. Given that a full generation had not yet passed under the new system this went relatively smoothly, with a minimal disruption to the system. Within Upper Valleyhome itself the decision was made to have the artisans basically administer themselves, with the more senior and experienced members of a particular group coordinating to make sure that the junior members were cared for. Overall, the People liked it, as smiths obviously had different infrastructure needs than potters and now they felt like their concerns could be addressed to the king as a cohesive group instead of filtering up through senior clan members who might not understand the situation. The new occupational management also integrated nicely with some of the new ideas circulating from distance trade with the Xohyssiri.
Centre of Trade
By controlling access to resources you can get other people to come to you with their resources, enriching you.
Pros: Gain bonus Diplomacy a turn for dominating certain forms of trade, early access to more advanced mechanics
Cons: Others entering your markets prompts anger and strife
Trade Status
| Resource | Status | Rivals |
| Luxuries | ||
| Fine Pottery | Minor | Xohyssiri |
| Fine Dye | Leading | Hathatyn |
| Fine Textiles | None | Xohyssiri, Swamp Folk |
| Gold | None | Hathatyn, Metal Workers |
| Silver | Moderate | Hath, MW, Xoh |
| Salt | Leading | None |
| Strategic | ||
| Copper | Moderate | Hath, Highlanders, Thunder Horse, MW |
| Bronze | N/A | Non-traded |
| ??? | N/A | ??? |
| Iron | Non-traded dominant | None |
What spirit went at the centre?
It was a rather tricky question to answer, in that while Crow was obviously the most important overall to the People, he wasn't necessarily the most important god to pray to, and that changed the dynamics more than a little. No matter what happened Crow would obviously be among the most important representation - there was a very strong argument that rather than a representation being the centrepiece of the site they should instead paint Crow's image on the ceiling to demonstrate that he was above all other spirits and yet also separated from them. There were three other strong choices however: Gwy and Gyo, who while not typically worshiped as gods would make fine centres as the progenitors of all but Crow; Fythhagyna, the Goddess of the Harvest and obviously a god who could never receive too much veneration but was also perhaps the not most politically important of spirits; and finally the heterodoxy but widely worshiped in one way or another deity of Mathulmyn, God of Kings.
Not - necessarily - the King of Gods though, although some conceptualized the deity in that way. No, Mathulmyn was instead the Greater Spirit the People prayed to in order that the king rule wisely... or at least not be an idiot. Mathulmyn was thus variously conceived of as a king passing on experience, a wizened advisor giving good counsel, or a consort who could rein in the impulses of the king. Discussing among themselves, the shamans had realized that while the forms varied, Mathulmyn was perhaps the most worshiped and prayed to deity among all the People. Sometimes you didn't want Crow's attention, but everyone wanted the king not to do stupid things. It was just that the spirit didn't quite have the age of worship as the others so while always in the People's thoughts, the god was often the second thought when thinking of spirits.
Who shall receive central placement within the new temple?
[] [Temple] Crow
[] [Temple] Gwy and Gyo
[] [Temple] Fythhagyna
[] [Temple] Mathulmyn
Another argument that had bubbled over with surprising ferocity was the nature of Crow, with the shamans realizing that they all had somewhat different ideas about the fundamental nature of Crow in all of his forms, and that also influenced the artwork they were getting in. Some saw the trickster and creator as being fundamentally benevolent in nature, with actions having a surface level cruelty leading to lessons with an ultimately good outcome. Others saw Crow as a being whose actions were primarily for his own cruel amusement, with the good beneath the bad being another layer of the joke. Still others conceived of Crow as having inscrutable motives that the People simply could not understand, moving towards goals that were his alone. A final group argued that Crow's true nature was unknown but not unknowable.
The king mostly left them to their slap fights over that and would just nod along when they reached consensus.
What is the nature of Crow?
[] [Crow] Benevolent
[] [Crow] Prankster
[] [Crow] Alien and unknowable
[] [Crow] Alien but knowable
Down south the war over the lowlands continued to be a slap-fest between all contenders, with the Highlanders maintaining a strategy of slowly grinding up the raiding forces sent at them while the Thunder Horse and their vassals were still able to dominate the field via overwhelming numbers, for the most part. Elsewhere the Metal Workers and Hathatyn seemed to be independently working out whatever secret the Thunder Horse had for the weapons their elites used, although they were fairly clearly keeping it secret. Still, more than a few pointed out that the variation on copper seemed to make for extraordinarily useful tools in small numbers, so figuring it out should be rather useful.
Meanwhile, the new push for boat building was producing a new round of ideas among the builders as they had the opportunity to implement some of the ideas that had been circulating for the past few generations with the more sedate constructions. New designs were being tried out, and while many of them didn't work, the builders were settling upon the features they found most useful for this latest generation.
Choose a trait for boats
[] [Boats] Speed
[] [Boats] Size
[] [Boats] Portability
[] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
However, as the seasons rolled on, a change started to settle into the air. The summers got hotter and the rainy season shorter. For a time the People were relatively unconcerned, they had dealt with droughts before, but by the third year of poor rainfall concern began to rise. Harvests were getting increasingly poor, and more and more people from outside were starting to wander into the People's territory looking for help. While the People gave freely, it was fairly obvious that trouble was brewing. The king was already trying to make sure that the various injustices and law violations that had spun out from the ill-fated experiment in changing the clan adoption rules, as the drought deepened and the fields and forests became increasingly stressed, the People grew increasingly anxious. What had happened, what had gone wrong?
Drought!
Payouts delayed, stability lost
While the king was seeking to work out what to do, messengers from the furthest provinces brought troubling news. While they had made some peaceful contact with the new tribes that were filtering into the region vacated generations ago, the drought was pushing far enough north to begin stressing the nomads as well, and when the nomads got stressed their tolerance for peaceful interaction with outsiders plummeted. An increase in raid activity was inevitable, and they pleaded for further fortification of the frontier in preparation. Of course there were other demands upon the resources of the People in these trying times, but they did make a convincing argument that another province in the north that would ensure protection in all directions would be useful.
Drought response?
[] [Drought] Found March in the North-East
[] [Drought] Ensure proper behaviour (Main Enforce Justice)
[] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[] [Drought] Bring more land under cultivation (Main Expand Econ)
Refugee Response?
[] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[] [CA] Open the borders and granaries (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
[] [CA] Bring in as many as possible (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, other effects)
AN: Main page may take a bit longer than usual to update this turn, don't worry about it too much
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Probably not ships, but better construction methods so our boats can go into deeper water more safely. Possible sail innovations are also possible.
- Location
- Philippines
Greater Good NOOOOO!
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
K we need to make more snails and do Study Forest to fuck over the Hathatyn on dyes. We should also try to invade them at some point, and expand the saltern so that we're the overwhelmingly dominant group, making it inadvisable for others to compete.
[X] [Temple] Crow
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Found March in the North-East
[X] [CA] Open the borders and granaries (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
First god; first temple.
Someone else brought up the point that this makes him the laws of nature.
*shrug* It just sounds better. Likely develops shipyards.
Brings down martial; protects against attacks from nomads and the TS; fights off impact of Econ increase from taking in people; we can integrate the ST after we send this new march some supplies, both to increase the # of provinces and let us make the Trading Post.
Brings us to -2 Stability... but fits our traits the best. Will also likely reduce the impact of nomad raids upon us.
N.B. Dam(n)
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- Location
- his hidden lair
So, I actually like the idea of giving more credence to Mathulmyn because it cements fallibility of monarchs while emphasizing the need to support and have faith in them. And frankly, the idea that our god of kings is essentially the concept of a vizier is pretty damn cool. It legitimizes the idea of King and Council, of the wisest kind of king being the one who's willing to seek advice.
As for boats, size is what I'm more inclined to improve. More storage for cargo, more room for supplies in terms of exploration, and more room for 'marines' with bows to drive off trouble makers.
Edit: Centre of Trade is also pretty hilarious for us considering we have a few near monopolies on certain things and a glut of diplo regardless.
As for boats, size is what I'm more inclined to improve. More storage for cargo, more room for supplies in terms of exploration, and more room for 'marines' with bows to drive off trouble makers.
Edit: Centre of Trade is also pretty hilarious for us considering we have a few near monopolies on certain things and a glut of diplo regardless.
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- Location
- Philippines
[x] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
This is the only vote I am sure of we can get the other upgrades in time if we take this and it woukd allow more boats to be constructed
This is the only vote I am sure of we can get the other upgrades in time if we take this and it woukd allow more boats to be constructed
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Say no to the King of Gods and Crow erasure.
Edit: Best temple schedule:
Crow because he's the first and sets up gods as p cool and tied to nature.
The G twins cus duality and balance is important.
The Fertility/harvest goddess cus we love farming.
The God of Kings cus he deserves to wait, smug bastard.
Edit: Best temple schedule:
Crow because he's the first and sets up gods as p cool and tied to nature.
The G twins cus duality and balance is important.
The Fertility/harvest goddess cus we love farming.
The God of Kings cus he deserves to wait, smug bastard.
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keenscythe
No longer NEET
- Location
- WA, USA
[X] [Temple] Mathulmyn
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
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- Location
- United States
Since there's another modifier for Crow, I think he's the one we should place as the center piece. Mathulmyn is nice, but it kinda brings the Church and State closer together.
Restoration of Order seems good, as our martial is awesome and our weapons make us even better. Having another colony will just demand more resources to get them up and running....though i'm open to the idea.
I have absolutely no idea about boats. I'd definitely appreciate it if someone did a break down of that option.
Restoration of Order seems good, as our martial is awesome and our weapons make us even better. Having another colony will just demand more resources to get them up and running....though i'm open to the idea.
I have absolutely no idea about boats. I'd definitely appreciate it if someone did a break down of that option.