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Paths of Civilization

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Choices to think about: Longbowmen versus Crossbowmen.

If we want longbowmen, we'll need to train them practically as soon as they can hold a bow, and if we want a large army of archers to field, it required that every Ymaryn male(and hopefully females) to train on weekend. That's an expensive commitment in addition to the acquisition of the material needed to make them.

If we use crossbowmen, we don't have to train as hard, obviously, and farmers can do more farming things, and more time can be devoted into other pursuits. On the other hand, we can't even more badass Elvish archers.
 
tryrar said:
I regards to the March, it might take a Main Enforce Law to really integrate them
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Which we cannot use unless we do it at the expense of the next three provinces, by actually not connecting them to our road network and thus actually worsing the issue that caused the March to drift away from us culturally

If we talk about this, I would like to stay with the constructive actions that actually resolve the problem and don't just mitigate the symtomps


As the core problem is a lack of infrastructure I suggest to either spam boats like there is no tomorrow or to bring down our Cent to 3 so that we can do a Double Main New Trails and leech of the excess roads for the March
 
sidestory said:
Which we cannot use unless we do it at the expense of the next three provinces, by actually not connecting them to our road network and thus actually worsing the issue that caused the March to drift away from us culturally

If we talk about this, I would like to stay with the constructive actions that actually resolve the problem and don't just mitigate the symtomps


As the core problem is a lack of infrastructure I suggest to either spam boats like there is no tomorrow or to bring down our Cent to 3 so that we can do a Double Main New Trails and leech of the excess roads for the March
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I could probably be convinced to put off new trails one turn in favor of doing a double main on them. It could give us a forced evolution on new trails, which could stand a pretty decent chance to help.
 
Karugus said:
Yes, the simpler the laws, the easier it is to read. Our old tax code was so complex we were basically going to invent pseudo-lawyers just to ensure everyone knew what they could or couldn't do.
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Well, no. That's just something that people who didn't want to actually invest in full, whole-population literacy talked about.

Abby Normal said:
So basically since it would cost us an action via the Law not triggering, we'd most likely be better off using one of our actions to switch the policy manually
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Or we'd be better off by not switching and just doing a megaproject... and then switching the policy manually. Sigh.

NB: If we have 4 provincial actions that's 2 mains so The Law likely gives 2 actions. If we don't it's making 3 actions = 4 actions, and changing policy costs 1 action so we lose nothing and gain nothing.
Academia Nut said:
Hmmm... not sure where to put Boat Building at this point. It may simply fall through the cracks for some time.
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I ship putting it with Trade.

bluefur87 said:
I could probably be convinced to put off new trails one turn in favor of doing a double main on them. It could give us a forced evolution on new trails, which could stand a pretty decent chance to help.
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Now:
[Main] Southshore
[Main] Copper Mine
Next:
[Main] Eastern Hills
[Main] The Dam (plz)
Last:
[Main] New Trails
+
[Main] New Trails x2
OR
[Secondary] New Trails
[Secondary] Change Policy (idk if anything gives us New Trails)
 
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Umi-san said:
Well, no. That's just something that people who didn't want to actually invest in full, whole-population literacy talked about.
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Considering there's no way in hell we were ever going to have whole population literacy, I consider this a moot point.
Kiba said:
Choices to think about: Longbowmen versus Crossbowmen.

If we want longbowmen, we'll need to train them practically as soon as they can hold a bow, and if we want a large army of archers to field, it required that every Ymaryn male(and hopefully females) to train on weekend. That's an expensive commitment in addition to the acquisition of the material needed to make them.

If we use crossbowmen, we don't have to train as hard, obviously, and farmers can do more farming things, and more time can be devoted into other pursuits. On the other hand, we can't even more badass Elvish archers.
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See, our recurves are already somewhat comparable with a yew longbow- and we've already got something akin to a professional full time military that can devote the needed time to training to make good use of archery. Combine that with our preexisting militia system and the fact we have an ever growing population advantage and bows are perfectly viable for us. Barring weird developments and dramatic cultural shifts I can't see us transitioning into crossbows.

We're using bows that have nearly as much draw weight as any longbow we're liable to see for a few millennia already, and all our warriors seem to be well trained in their use. Frankly, our biggest military innovations right now are going to be actual formations and concepts like volley fire rather than metallurgical improvements and various equipment improvements. Yeah, we're behind in the latter in a lot of ways, but in the ranged weaponry department we're millennia ahead the only issue is further leveraging that advantage.
 
Quick reminder that yew longbows gain their power mostly from the yew and their size. The actual design is fairly substandard.

Also, crossbows are primarily a product of intensive urbanization as a group leverages superior manufacturing capacity to overcome issues with training.
 
SpeckofStardust said:
no. just no, stop overinflating our abilities.
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lol.

We have composite bows. You know, bows like the infamous Manchu bow? Obviously we're not there yet, but we're on the tech path to bows that are actually superior in terms to draw weight and flight distance to the yew longbow.

It would be far easier to refine and utilize composite bow technology than it would for us to make the leap to yew/elm longbows. Especially since we might not even have the right kind of wood in our region considering we're vaguely mesopotamian.

Simply put, from a sheer technical standpoint- our current bows are already more sophisticated than a yew selfbow. If we were given comparable materials, we could probably make something better if more time/resource intensive to make.

Edit: Although I was wrong in failing to account for the fact our composite bow stave technology could be utilized in crossbows as well.
 
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[X] [Main] New Settlement - Southern Shores
[X] [Secondary] Copper Mine
[X] [Secondary] Copper Mine X2
[X] [Kick] The Garden

zamin said:
I'm that over achieving idiot who agrees to take on a dozen projects and finds himself desperately juggling them all at the same time.
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There's a reason I don't really care about missing the trade "opportunities" this turn.

They're seeking shinies, not anything critical or major infrastructure. Even if we couldn't get poppies without the healer priests' help, I'd be fine passing up the opportunity.

And we missed the best chance to influence the Highlanders laws by trading with the Xohyssiri instead. (Not that I regret it. Snek waifu best waifu.)

I'm not willing to burn actions better spent handling our internal issues, seizing proper expansion room, and getting copper off the ground for whatever lesser bonus we'd get this much later into the game. (Or spent on the megaproject or whatever copper unlocks. There's going to be something.)

ctulhuslp said:
Heya, people, we have to spam boats manually if we want them (we really, really, do).
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I want more copper tools before doing more boats, but I'd be happy to after.

As it happens, though, it looks like we're about to have a much higher supply of copper tools...
 
[X][Main] New Settlement - Southern Shores
[X][Secondary] Trade Mission - Highland Kingdom
[X][Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[X][Kick] The Garden
 
zamin said:
- So their capital is about as big as ours, though far less organized. The Bone Wall is still both impressive and terrifying
- They seem to have 3 layers: the "inner" city which is protected by the Bone Wall, the "slums" which is where the slaves and poor people live, and the "farms" where they grow the food needed to feed their city
- Their farms are protected by a small wall meant to stop chariots from getting through. It's an interesting idea, one that we should probably try with our border provinces at some point
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You know I never thought about it until you listed it out. You know what their city reminds me of?

Ba Sing Se
They have the layers,
Academia Nut said:
There were, however, two additional layers of wall around the city
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the outer farm layer
Academia Nut said:
and another, much lower wall that spread out to encapsulate the farmland around the city
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The Middle Ring
Academia Nut said:
one around a vast sprawl of lower class and slave housing
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With its partial slums districts

And it's elite inner circle
Academia Nut said:
who yes, did have a wall studded with skulls around the centre of the city,
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I have no idea where @Academia Nut drew his inspiration from, but it does help conceptualize the city.

...Sure, they have no where near as impressive infrastructure, but it does look like they are headed that way.
 
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Probably we're nowhere near this, but forest+water+earthworks made me think of the Ymaryn.


I suspect realistically more like this.

 
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At some point in the future - probably after we've nabbed our two new provinces and New Trails'd to get better connections to our march - I'd like to set our Policy to Progress and double-main Festivals.

If anything can give our civilization the idea to give people prizes for coming up with interesting things, I think that'd be it.

And most study actions and invention aren't on the same advancement track as our warrior-administrators and don't require the same traits, so we have immediately relevant reasons beyond the faster tech progress to increase our civilization's respect for them.
 
drake_azathoth said:
Probably we're nowhere near this, but forest+water+earthworks made me think of the Ymaryn.


I suspect realistically more like this.

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That actually looks like a mix between Valleyhome and the Xohyssiri's capital since we don't have walls around ours and the Xohyssiri are nowhere near as organized.

@Academia Nut What is the name of the Xohyssiri's capital?
Candesce said:
At some point in the future - probably after we've nabbed our two new provinces and New Trails'd to get better connections to our march - I'd like to set our Policy to Progress and double-main Festivals.

If anything can give our civilization the idea to give people prizes for coming up with interesting things, I think that'd be it.

And most study actions and invention aren't on the same advancement track as our warrior-administrators and don't require the same traits, so we have immediately relevant reasons beyond the faster tech progress to increase our civilization's respect for them.
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If we are dedicated on isolating ourselves, then definitely. We would have little other source to grab new things so we really will have to invest in things ourselves to advance rather than learning from others.
 
[X] [Main] New Settlement - Southern Shores
[X] [Secondary] Copper Mine
[X] [Secondary] Copper Mine X2
[X] [Kick] The Garden

Locked in, and rolled things out and... there is a possibility I will not update tonight. Both because of needing to do other things, and figuring out how to portray these results.
 
Sivantic said:
We would have little other source to grab new things so we really will have to invest in things ourselves to advance rather than learning from others.
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Learning things from others restricts us to learning things that others are interested in.

If we want stuff that other people won't follow up on - keeping an equitable gender balance, say, or maintaining social mobility - we need to do it ourselves.

Also, if we want to go after paper, well, most other civs don't have our forests.
 
Academia Nut said:
[X] [Main] New Settlement - Southern Shores
[X] [Secondary] Copper Mine
[X] [Secondary] Copper Mine X2
[X] [Kick] The Garden

Locked in, and rolled things out and... there is a possibility I will not update tonight. Both because of needing to do other things, and figuring out how to portray these results.
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.....did we get ANOTHER crit? Are you sure we don't need the Sage Dice tag?
 
Candesce said:
Also, if we want to go after paper, well, most other civs don't have our forests.
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I fear we handicapped ourselves with garbage to blacksoil practice, since paper requires rotting fibrous material as base. Shamans and artisans likely are not interested in the pits as it's mixed with all the other crap, like accidental charcoal.

So a hero artisan is most likely source. Wish we have bamboo.
 
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