- Location
- Austria
Oh.
Yes, a good reminder. So, it is either Expansion policy and manual trade missions or Trade policy and manual expansion. What is better?
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Yes, a good reminder. So, it is either Expansion policy and manual trade missions or Trade policy and manual expansion. What is better?
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
When is the best time to do mega projects? I'd say when:
- We have good, safe auxilliary stat levels (Stab, Diplo, Mart)
- We have no critical short term needs
- We have no foreign threats
Basically, I think we should rush mega projects till an actual problem arises, or we get a tool to deal with our centralization cap issue. (Building settlements is also a great thing to do, but it doesn't actually fix centralization for us. If we build a province, and then roads to it, we come out with no loss or gain in centralization. If we build a province and put roads elsewhere, we're just playing a shell game, scooting the problem of low accountability to the new area.)
Definitely useful. Defensive Policy is just about the only way to obtain enough Watchtower coverage to discover signaling towers anyways.
Actually, hell, look at modern law. Much of it retains a lot of legal foundation with Roman law, which was inherited by all their successor states and then spun off into variants across all the countries in the area.
A good legal code is expensive to develop, but cheap to copy.
Well, @Academia Nut is the best authority on wasting actions from letting Policy switch on it's own I guess.
I'd point out that if we have a clear goal on the Defense Policy(i.e. Full Coverage watchtowers across our polity), then the policy will preferentially do so. The provinces will try to do what they think we want. No good if you're trying anything too complicated but "I want every mile of Ymaryn land with eyes on it" is clear enough.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Yeah, I thought of that but was arguing with the actual statements of someone else.
+, your stated goal* was "If we leave it on for long enough we'll make walled cities the natural state."
*i.e. not necessarily your actual goal, but the only available approximation.
The provinces can be most trusted to create new provinces, trade policy doesn't make new trails and such, so I'd much prefer expansion policy.
I want watchtowers mostly for the communication technology, defenses secondary.
Also, another article on Roman sanitation and how bad it is.
- Location
- Austria
But trade policy includes Art Patronage and luxuries (snails in our case), which we never do on our own despite them being quite useful.
Also I still do not know what Policies include building boats: I would be all over such Policy because seriously, boats.
Currently we have several solution routes:
1) Using New Provincess to lower Centralization to extend our Main New Trails so the March is connected with the already culturally converted Stonepen, and begins to assimilate.
2) If 1 fails, take a risk while we're at Stability 3 to push Centralization over the cap with EXTRA New Trails, and then play it cautious for a few turns while we work through the resultant event trigger..
3) Spam Watchtowers until we develop early signaling towers, cutting communication distances tremendously. Might be a megaproject once the idea arises to make it a central network thing.
4) Spam More Boats until we hit enough innovation triggers to have boats be built cheaply enough that anyone can use them rather than the very limited passenger capacity currently. Will still require New Trails to back it up. Our entire coast is young settlements full of refugees except for Redshore, so adding more boats will not significantly introduce our culture to the Stallion Tribes
5) Spam More Chariots until we hit enough innovation triggers to use chariot messengers instead of runners. Will still require New Trails to retool the roads for them.
6) Spam New Settlements in Stonepen, put the Stallion Tribes in close contact with settlements full of Traditional Ymaryn people in Stonepen via sheer volume. We'd probably be doing this to pay for the other options anyway...
- Location
- Australia
That is a complete waste of policies. We have no need for signalling towers. Spending that much Econ and actions on something with minimal usefulness instead of actually useful things is a bad idea.
BY signal tower, you mean semaphore towers? That's a quite advanced concept you're asking the Ymaryn to develop.
Otherwise, the towers would be used as rest stops for a runner system.
Signal tower is used for defensive purposes, to rush our troops to a location. However, it doesn't improve communication effectively since you're basically reduced to one bit of information: whenever there's an attack.
- Location
- Austria
1. Might work, but that would make provinces fairly roadless.
2. I am honestly tempted by this; we've got Centralisation tolerance thingie from doing the same early on, IIRC.
3. Maybe, but after we get widespread copper tools or maybe brass from Salt Gift - Metal Workers.
4. We totally should spam a fuckton of boats; besides, with Channel connecting Valleyhome to the sea, we actually can have a decent cultural drift decrease from making boat travel affordable.
5. Maybe? Think it's a wrong tech tree, because warriors won't really be all over the idea of being couriers. I guess.
6. Expansion Policy, I guess, although it's not controlled.
All in all, I'd say either redlining Centralisation specifically via roads and/or spamming boats are reasonable ways to go.
No, not semaphore. Drum signals carry a long distance, as does fire and smoke signals. They cannot convey complex instructions, but even simple instructions is the difference between a runner going in, and then delaying hours while they rest versus a runner going in, and immediately passing their message bag over to the next runner who heads off immediately.
It works for war best of course, but it has uses logistically just to signal people that "tax caravan is coming, everyone get your wagons out" to bolster efficiency and connectivity.
I'm pretty sure we have no policies that include building boats at the moment, sadly. With Salt Gift and our Saltern our need to increase Art and Diplo as raw stats is not huge, and as much as I want the raw infrastructure and ideas that come with art patronage and expand snail cultivation, we need to establish some trade routes for now. The fact that the policy would allow our provinces to do that means it's all the more likely that they won't establish trade routes first, which is a problem.
Noting that the main challenge is making boat travel affordable. One boat requires a lot of skilled labor and valuable seasoned timber to make, while still being risky, sea travel is one of the most deadly modes of transport for a very long time, which deters travelers aside from warriors and traders
It's mostly about putting a lot of chariots into circulation, so we start finding alternative uses for them.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
I addressed this one. It just moves the core problem to a new province, it doesn't fix it.
This could have seriously bad outcomes, including LOWERING our centralization cap. (Fluff wise, if the central bureaucracy is overloaded for the current tech it becomes ineffective and sluggish. One way that gets resolved in RL is by making it a puppet of the chiefs, essentially setting up a little feudalism. We've already had that situation once before, and its super dangerous)
These are all good ideas for trying to punch through the new tech advance we need. I'd suggest doing:
[] [Main] Megaproject
[] [Secondary] Push Tech Action 2x
That way we get a ton of guaranteed investment into our future with infrastructure (and the associated tech and civic push), along with experimental actions to try for logistics techs.
- Location
- his hidden lair
Depending on what avenues Southshore opens for us, I'd like to consider sending the Southern Hill People a Salt Gift rather than the HK (or at least both). The fact of the matter is anything the HK can offer us in terms of technological developments, the SHP can probably do the same. At the same time, we can play up our mysteriousness in conjunction with the heaping piles of salt to overawe them and earn a reliable trading partner that entirely circumvents the BS going on in the lowlands.
I mean, think about it- we can't just follow our river into the HK's land, it's quicker to follow another. But if we used our canal to ship our trade goods to Redshore than shipped them down to Southshore before trade caravans left for the SHP and the HK we could ensure a line of trade that is both faster than our current one, and less vulnerable to strife as well.
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced waiting until Southshore is up to binge trading is the right call. It just gives us way too many potential options we don't necessarily have now that I feel it would be premature to starting off our trade expeditions before it could factor into things.
I mean, think about it- we can't just follow our river into the HK's land, it's quicker to follow another. But if we used our canal to ship our trade goods to Redshore than shipped them down to Southshore before trade caravans left for the SHP and the HK we could ensure a line of trade that is both faster than our current one, and less vulnerable to strife as well.
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced waiting until Southshore is up to binge trading is the right call. It just gives us way too many potential options we don't necessarily have now that I feel it would be premature to starting off our trade expeditions before it could factor into things.
Romv
A Memory of TREES
[X] [Kick] The Garden
[X] [Main] New Settlement - Southern Shores
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Western Thunder Horse/Thunder Speakers
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highland Kingdom
Was really tempted to for the Dam, but then I remembered I don't actually like the the Dam
[X] [Main] New Settlement - Southern Shores
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Western Thunder Horse/Thunder Speakers
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highland Kingdom
Was really tempted to for the Dam, but then I remembered I don't actually like the the Dam
- Location
- Austria
As stats, not; as techs, quite likely yes. Usage on flags, better ceramics...although we'll probably get those from the next batch of Xohyssiri refugees.
We can just as well send Salt Gift right now to the Metal Miners.
- Location
- Australia
It's a very minor boost to efficiency and connectivity. There are much better things we could be using our actions and Economy for. The Study actions do not cost Econ, we get bonuses to doing them, and they also provide permanent boons. Survey lands gives us entirely new strategic resources to tap into and expand our Econ slots. Expand Holy Sites further increases literacy in our kingdom and increases Mysticism. Art Patronage actually has innovation as a possibility when done as a Main.
There are many things our provinces can be doing that cost as much or less Econ than watch towers, provide benefits equal to or greater than the watch towers, and we do not have to roll as well on the innovation roll to make sure we get even the most minor of advantages as with the watch towers. You have been inflating the usefulness of building watch towers beyond what is reasonable.
It does fix the problem however, as there are fewer geographical barriers between Eastern Hills and Valleyhome than between Stallion Tribes and Valleyhome.
In fact, Eastern Hills already HAS roads. Ancient ones by now.
So by settling them, we utilize roads we've already built.
Historically false.
The last two times this happened we raised our Centralization cap and changed to a more advanced form of government after taking events that cost us...1 Stability.
- Location
- his hidden lair
The SHP/HK technically have more to offer considering it's poppies+metallurgy+other unknown goods. Furthermore, the Metal Miners aren't going anywhere- we've had reliable trade with them for ages. But ensuring we can have more reliable trade even in the event of war would be a ideal.
It's the difference between overawing someone into signing a new and valuable trade deal and simply giving a regular customer a gift for their continued service.
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- Location
- Australia
@Academia Nut, have we done Expand Holy Sites enough that the literacy requirement for the crisis would've been completed?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Asking for the "Flower that dulls pain and makes people sleepy" will eventually find you what you want, although actually getting the flower itself to plant might take multiple missions.
This is actually triggered off of Divine Stewards.
It was actually the skull wall that really drove forward their ceramics tech because they were firing so many bricks that there were serendipitous accidents that they learned from, and then the desire for luxuries by the upper classes drove further development.
Use the outer walls to control where infantry can get in and use their own chariots and infantry to hit those spots hard, otherwise wait enemies out.
Ehhh... you can teach outsiders of the spirits of the people, but don't see why that would be something to focus on.
??? - Concept not applicable to be asked IC
You'll see.
This is correct, if you went a turn without having a megaproject active and did not switch during the main phase, the provinces would bulk up on Econ but wouldn't gain any benefits from the Law and you would get a chance to switch during the midterm.
Yes.
Not yet, no.
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I will point out this is explicitly missing something:
Watchtowers have significant utility that even the chiefs in the provinces that have never seen war want some. You know why? They help with everything. Bandits cannot prey on people where there is oversight. Fires are swiftly spotted so they can be doused. Watchtowers help with learning about flooding and landslides at a distance and getting help sent, which happen with some regularity even with all the care we put to avoiding them. Refugees can be seen from greater distances rather than wander until Blackbirds find their tracks.
All told, it makes the chiefs more responsive to crisis by the power of early warning systems.
The thing is, building lots of watchtowers is cheap. As a Main action it costs as much Economy, but you get a lot more towers. We could get sufficient towers to cover 5 Provinces with a Main action dedicated to each, which we have two of per Policy turn.
As such, this is a good Policy investment with a useful tech behind it.
- Location
- Austria