No, because PS uses its own AB without the Sealing/3 bonus. PS 26 is AB 3. We have 75 Sealing (51 + 24 SSA), giving us +25. This is the short term goal because at that point we arrive at Eff. PS 51, or our current Base Sealing level which the bonus cannot take us beyond. With AB 3 this means Prep 57 as in the quote.
 
Last edited:
...In which case 26 is AB 3.
Ah, I see, I typo'd AB 4 in the post you quoted (but used the correct Eff. 57 number with prep).. Thanks, fixed.

Anyway, what I think is crucial is that if we put all our XP into levelling PS, we will reach the short-term Prep 57 cap in ~47 days (at 12XP/day) and our Severe will heal in ~49 days. So we will be able to start Rune research immediately at full capacity as the first thing we do post-recovery.
 
Last edited:
I can definitely agree that I will be significantly less concerned about low level seals once we hit PS 20, though.
 
I can definitely agree that I will be significantly less concerned about low level seals once we hit PS 20, though.
Note that its 281 XP away atm, or ~24 days, and at that time we'll still have the Severe, which is -2 AB. I'd avoid voting in a plan that raises PS 19 -> 20, since PS 20 is AB 3, being 1 point higher in level but 2 points higher in the penalty. So we most likely want to go 19 -> 22+ directly as thats where the net gain begins. But at PS 19 we'd be rolling at Eff. 40 or Prep 44, which is much safer than right now, yeah.
 
Last edited:
The problem is when one of the seals we're working on is a rune, which might require 3 FP or might require 0 or might require 5.
I don't really understand your meaning here. For starters, difficulty checking with prep requires no FP, which is largely what's being suggested. But otherwise, runes don't need more FP to reroll. In this specific case they might even need less because the "calligraphy" skill here is disproportionately larger, whereas with our paper sealing we may need to reroll sealing or calligraphy. And invokes are worth so little with the AB we have for PS that I don't think we SHOULD use FP on it, it's practically a waste.
 
I don't really understand your meaning here. For starters, difficulty checking with prep requires no FP, which is largely what's being suggested. But otherwise, runes don't need more FP to reroll. In this specific case they might even need less because the "calligraphy" skill here is disproportionately larger, whereas with our paper sealing we may need to reroll sealing or calligraphy. And invokes are worth so little with the AB we have for PS that I don't think we SHOULD use FP on it, it's practically a waste.
'Cause we can't rely on invoking to do a lot so we have to reroll any time we roll low rather than relying on the standard-invoke +8.
 
The problem is when one of the seals we're working on is a rune, which might require 3 FP or might require 0 or might require 5.
Can you explain to me how the rune would require that many FP? I don't see how this is possible outside of some once-in-century bad rolls.

Researching runes planning on triple invoking is something we just don't need to ever do. Invokes are currently worth a +2. Basically useless.
 
I don't see any issue with rerolling the PS roll, for aforementioned reasons - namely, I doubt we'd need to reroll even on a -12 for Earthshaping.
The expected value of rerolling a +0 is about 1 FP

It's even lower for rerolling a -6, which is probably where we want to draw the line. 0.25FP or so although I don't recall exactly. Certainly less than 0.5 FP.

3 FP should be plenty.
 
I basically agree with this, but we can't wait until we're healed to trap the notes. It needs to be done now. Unfortunately that means it's not an option. We can't beat him while injured.



Just how static defenses that Akatsuki put up can be overcome with sufficient firepower. Static defenses that we put up can delay Akatsuki but will never be able to keep them out entirely. They have Deidara. They have Itachi and Ameterasu. They will be able to punch a hole in whatever we do.

I don't think this is a reasonable strategy. Put me down for <1% that it keeps them out permanently.

We could probably shield Leaf for a bit while our essies kill their essies.
I'm sitting here realizing I mathed pretty badly, mainly, I missed that Sasori gets a max of 16 prep, not 8. Woops. Full prep with all of that the same gets them to 132 over our roll of 131, without any fate dice. Agh frigging s rankera
 
I'm sitting here realizing I mathed pretty badly, mainly, I missed that Sasori gets a max of 16 prep, not 8. Woops. Full prep with all of that the same gets them to 132 over our roll of 131, without any fate dice. Agh frigging s rankera
You may have missed this post.
This reply is tentative -- if we later decide that there would be a better way to model things, we would switch to that instead.

Hazou would spend about "a day" to roll Sealing to set the trap. He would get a malus for not having researched the seal. With Mari's assistance, he might add +(her Deceit AB). This would set a TN to discover the trap. Then, if Sasori spent at least one prep day on the seal, he'd be able to roll Sealing to discover the trap by meeting or exceeding the TN.
So prep doesn't matter here so much as raw skill. We'd likely be able to beat him here if we weren't injured because we could invoke once or twice, possibly time-ladder and get Mari to assist.
 
I know we set Mari on buying up defunct mines, especially copper and gold mines
But do we need to do anything more on that front? Will she tell us when we need to go out and play minecraft for a couple days or what

Don't want to get zoinked by bankruptcy while we're doing research speedrun

@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
 
@eaglejarl @Paperclipped @Velorien

Question : Many Seals use Maker's Skill AB for their effects and presumably so would Runes. Is that something we should keep in mind? Or is the intent that it scale with Level/10 or such and PS AB being drastically different from that is an unintended side effect of it scaling off of Sealing lvl? Asking for clarification because the way it is set up currently, we could have PS 26 very very soon, or effective PS 51 without prep, but that would just be AB 3 rather than AB 6, dramatically weakening Rune effects if they scale with AB and not a fraction of the effective level.
We haven't yet set the design principles for rune mechanics.
 
Who wants to attempt multithread researching the same seal in order to learn one of the other jōnin seals in time to trap it?
 
Who wants to attempt multithread researching the same seal in order to learn one of the other jōnin seals in time to trap it?
I don't think we can do that... our Shadow Clones aren't cognitively independent the way that Kei's are, so I suspect that they'd be doing the same math/Sealing/science/research that Hazou Prime is, just on a separate sheet of paper.

There's a reason why Orochimaru was so invested in vivisecting Kei.
 
I don't think we can do that... our Shadow Clones aren't cognitively independent the way that Kei's are, so I suspect that they'd be doing the same math/Sealing/science/research that Hazou Prime is, just on a separate sheet of paper.

There's a reason why Orochimaru was so invested in vivisecting Kei.
Ah, so we should have Kei learn the jonin seal and teach it to us. Good point
 
I don't think we can do that... our Shadow Clones aren't cognitively independent the way that Kei's are, so I suspect that they'd be doing the same math/Sealing/science/research that Hazou Prime is, just on a separate sheet of paper
Don't know that cognitive independence has anything to do with it, more just that if sealing research is performed sequentially you can't get ahead without the previous step completed so there's no way for SC to be researching different things at the same time.

The closest we could do, I suspect, is having SC research related seals for veterancy which would only marginally speed things up
 
The closest we could do, I suspect, is having SC research related seals for veterancy which would only marginally speed things up
It would not be about speed then, but about being able to research the new Seal safely at all and that is not marginal utility. I suspect we might do some of that kind of thing once we cap out our effective PS stat in the next few months, since we will have like a year or so during which we won't be raising it at all and will need to come up with ways to research harder stuff.
 
  • Except at the Poles, air-suspended runes that resist being moved should appear to tilt - in daily cycles - as they fail to move along with the rotation of the planet. Or if they react to the 'chakrasphere,' the rotation of the chakrasphere with the planet.
  • Explosive Runes not tilting hints about underlying principles of drag or the chakrasphere.
We have most of one data point about how drag works. The first rune got buried after brief observation that didn't mention Hazo checking the rune's tilt, and the second rune was immediately activated. We don't (yet) have enough information to figure out what they're remaining stationary in respect to, but I do at least want to note that they're moving along with the revolution of the planet (assuming we've confirmed that a planet exists) since they didn't immediately vanish into a random point of outer space (also assuming that exists here). Which is to say that I agree we could experiment with it but I don't think we've actually confirmed diddly about the details of how drag works, including whether or not runes are observed to tilt.

(Re: planet- A horizon exists and Hazo spent most of his life in a coastal nation, so he should be aware of how ships going over the horizon behave. The curvature of the setting is trivial to establish and only somewhat more difficult to calculate once someone puts their mind to it. Establishing curvature however doesn't guarantee that we're on a planet or that a planet would work the same as we understand astronomy to work in real life.)
 
Save substrate. Prep day to check how much harder rechargeable runes are to research.

HOWS Rune.
  • Based on easy seal.
  • Better at slowing Great Seal deterioration than HOWS seals?
    • Only if runes can be moved to 7th Path.
  • Creates chakra clean room by converting local chakra to light. Bonus to fine chakra manipulations in range?
Create Chakra Metal Rune.
  • Based on conversion of rock to primordial sealing substrate.
  • If anything is, metal substrate is a straight improvement on substrate.
  • Depending on what Orochimaru learned about the Seed, can envision using chakra metal to patch the Great Seal without deactivating it.
  • Better chances with Orochimaru and Naruto on board.
Empowered Drag Rune.
  • Based on pro bono effect of Explosive Runes.
  • Like macerators convert storage stress into an advantage, lean in to drag property of Explosive Runes. How strong is a rune dedicated to dragging?
    • Except at the Poles, air-suspended runes that resist being moved should appear to tilt - in daily cycles - as they fail to move along with the rotation of the planet. Or if they react to the 'chakrasphere,' the rotation of the chakrasphere with the planet.
    • Explosive Runes not tilting hints about underlying principles of drag or the chakrasphere.
    • Is drag what preserved the Great Seal for a millennium and protects it from the Dragons? Is drag through space truly drag through time or something stranger?
    • If any seal was crammed full of multiple functions, would be the Great Seal, but simpler explanations are simpler.
  • Time slowing effects can slow Great Seal deterioration?
    • Only if runes can be moved to 7th Path.
XP Runes.
  • PCJ+.
    • Better armor?
  • YSJ+.
    • Fix wandering wits?
  • ACE+.
    • Faster training, higher max stacks?
  • Shadow Clone+.
    • Stacking potential.
      • Better clone memory integration.
      • Higher clone sickness tolerance.
      • Auras that boost focus during training at the cost of long term health consequences, which clones can ignore.
  • Counting Sheep Rune.
    • In range of rune, sleep until fully rested in half the time.
    • Needs to recover at least 12 hours of sleep to break even with crafting time.
    • Not sure if it would expend charges per sleep or have an aura with a set duration that works on any number of sleepers in range.
    • Need Orochimaru's help.
  • Feel like distractions. Interesting to compare research difficulties with prep days, but less important than runes with abilities that change the game.
  • Different style. Bloody Genius Rune.
    • Stagnation barriers come faster. After 200XP?
    • You can clear more upcoming stagnation stacks ahead of time and staying ahead gives an XP multiplier.
Rune to research Mori Voice.
  • Dimensionalism.
    • Mori brains access a voice from another dimension.
    • After research, runes to map dimensions or power up bloodline?

Isn't background radiation/environmental chakra a thing?

I would hesitate to make a rune that converts local chakra to light... sounds like a good way to destroy the world.

The rune creates a never-ending siphon of environmental chakra (and a lot of it, because runes channel a shit ton of chakra). Slowly, the entire world's chakra is whirlpool-ed into the siphon and converted into light.

That much light produces a lot of heat, over the course of a lot of time, further destabilizing the environment.

And this is assuming that the rune can handle that much chakra, for that that long. It might fail.

And a lithosealing failure... I fear the results.
 
I don't think we've actually confirmed diddly about the details of how drag works, including whether or not runes are observed to tilt.
Might not have been mentioned. Would be surprised if it was not noticed. They observed it for hours - resting on the surface it was infused on - and dug the hole it was slowly falling in deeper more than once. If the planet rotates, the chakrasphere has to rotate with it or chakrascopes would not work. Or they would have to measure chakra residue attached to matter? And if other runes are assumed to have drag, the Great Rune does not tilt. Skyslicers do not fly off in the 7th Path, which could mean the 7th Path is perfectly still or they also rotate with revolution of the 7th Path.
I would hesitate to make a rune that converts local chakra to light... sounds like a good way to destroy the world.
HOWS already do that?
"It's the HOWS seals—Harumitsu's Outstanding Worldsaving Seals. They're basically just longer-lived lantern seals that need a lot more power. We're planting them all around the Great Seal in order to use up the chakra that it's leaking so the Seal itself doesn't erode as quickly.
Rune could be scarier, but an on-off function mitigates most danger.
 
Back
Top