- Location
- Yes.
Ah yes, I think the QMs made it private because Haru's being trained by Mari now instead of us.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Noburi Training Plan
Physique 34 -> 40
Spend 22 Pangolin XP and 203 XP
Making progress towards Sage Mode, which Noburi has also expressed interest in acquiring (so have the QMs...) Also, extra physical stress box which is pretty nice... maybe access to some new stunts as well? It would be really nice if he could drain summons in time for the Conclave since Vampiric Dew is his main trick. We should ask the Toads about this once the training plan is implemented.
After this, he will need another 50 to raise VD to 60. Athletics and Alertness are both excellent choices, especially given that we may need the gang to be punching pretty hard in the near future... Or we could bet on Physique for Sage Mode, since I suspect Physique 40 won't cut it. I think I would rather do Athletics though. Med stats will need to be supported by some new 30s, I would say Hozuki's Mantle and Substitution or something like that. Raising Hiding in the Mist from 10 to 20 for another supporting stat is a cheap and decent option as well.
Also we really need to get him Shadow Clone...
Current plan for Hazou to have a valid pyramid so we can raise resolve:
MedKnow -> 10
Substitution -> 20
Physique -> 30
Calligraphy -> 40
Earthshaping -> 50
Resolve -> 60
Physique 34 -> 40
Spend 22 Pangolin XP and 203 XP
Making progress towards Sage Mode, which Noburi has also expressed interest in acquiring (so have the QMs...) Also, extra physical stress box which is pretty nice... maybe access to some new stunts as well? It would be really nice if he could drain summons in time for the Conclave since Vampiric Dew is his main trick. We should ask the Toads about this once the training plan is implemented.
After this, he will need another 50 to raise VD to 60. Athletics and Alertness are both excellent choices, especially given that we may need the gang to be punching pretty hard in the near future... Or we could bet on Physique for Sage Mode, since I suspect Physique 40 won't cut it. I think I would rather do Athletics though. Med stats will need to be supported by some new 30s, I would say Hozuki's Mantle and Substitution or something like that. Raising Hiding in the Mist from 10 to 20 for another supporting stat is a cheap and decent option as well.
Also we really need to get him Shadow Clone...
PSA: A NEW RULE FOR CHARACTER PYRAMIDS HAS BEEN ADDED
In the Rules, the following rule has been added:
"If your highest level skill has Aspect Bonus N, you must have at least 2 stats at AB N-1, 3 stats at AB N-2, and so on."
This means that you must have a full pyramid beneath your highest AB, though you may have any number of columns once that condition is met.
Examples:
VALID: 1x 60, 2x 50, 3x 40, 4x 30, 5x 20, 6x 10
This is the minimal pyramid that achieves a 60 stat under the new rule.
INVALID: 1x 60, 1x 50, 1x 40, 1x 30, 1x 20, 1x 10
This was the minimal pyramid that achieved a 60 stat under the old rule. Green means necessary and present, red means necessary but not present.
VALID: 4x 60, 4x 50, 4x 40, 4x 30, 6x 20, 6x 10
Columns are still allowed, as long as a full pyramid is somewhere in there. Green means necessary stats, blue means not necessary stats.
INVALID: 1x 60, 1x 50, 3x 40, 3x 30, 4x 20, 5x 10
This is Akane's pyramid.
F.A.Q.:
What will happen to currently invalid characters, like Akane and Kei and all the NPCs that don't quite fit the new rule?
All such characters will be treated the same way. No stats will be lowered, but the character will not be allowed to raise up a new capstone (i.e. increase their maximum AB) until they are valid under the new pyramid rules.
For Akane and Kei, this means you cannot vote in a training plan that raises a stat to the 70s until they are valid under the new pyramid rule.
What about ninja like Rock Lee and Gai, who focused exceptionally hard on one thing only?
Quoting the Rules:
The newly added rule brings mechanics in line with the intended narrative.
- Senior ninja acquire lots of overlapping or flat-out redundant jutsu. Why? Because they need new skills in their skill tree in order to push primary skills higher.
- Senior ninja are good (or at least competent) at everything, not just at "See/Dodge/Punch". (Gai and Lee may be exceptions to this rule, or might simply have hidden depths.)
Won't jounin and S-rankers have ultra-broad bases with many unused stats? For example, under these rules, jounin (60 max) need 15 stats <40 and S-rankers (80 max) need 21!
S-rankers are often exceptions.
Yes, and this level of diversity is expected. In the narrowest case, there is less room at the top of the pyramid than you think and many important stats will be forced into lower tiers (the narrowest jounin has only 6 stats >=40).
This makes people like Jiraiya and Hiruzen the default S-ranker build, rather than being exceptionally diverse. How is that justified?
- All S-rankers are by definition exceptions, and are created bespoke every time. The pyramid rules cover the typical use cases (genin-jounin) best. S-rankers get special jutsu, stunts, etc.
- If you have 1x 80 and 2x 70 for your combat stats, then your 60s and 50s fill out with crucial support stats (Sub, CR, Resolve, Physique, Buff jutsu, Stealth, Deceit, etc), allowing you to leave most skills at chuunin level and below. Hiruzen and Jiraiya with 3 or more 80+ stats and 12 or more 60+ stats, able to compete with jounin in their specialties, are rare.
- S-rankers are defined more by their unique, game-winning abilities than by their raw stats alone. Many S-rankers have jounin stat lines.
Doesn't this mean that we'll need to spend XP on useless jutsu, or that QMs will need to spend spoons on designing useless jutsu, just for pyramid filler?
See the redundant techniques line above. This also creates interesting tradeoffs: learn another element for better (more diverse) techniques there, or learn redundant techniques of your own element?
Also, once it becomes a concern, the QMs are open to the possibility of leveling a placeholder technique to be filled in via Declaration later.
How are we supposed to make it to S-rank if we need to level all these extra stats?
S-rank is more about your unique, game-winning abilities than your stats. It should never have been possible to get a 90 stat with as little as 20k XP. This is correcting that oversight.
Won't a lot of NPCs have to be rebuilt?
First, there's no up-front work, as we're not lowering any stats. Second, almost all NPCs we have already adhere to this rule anyway.
Won't this make all NPC builds basically the same?
Kind of, yes. The room for variation drastically narrows as most NPCs hew close to the optimal pyramid or its variants (ignoring special stunts that may interact with the pyramid rules and such).
Is this a problem? No. Ninja are smart and very dedicated to getting stronger. In a vacuum, most ninja should naturally tend towards very optimal pyramid arrangements, even if specific allocations of XP here and there may be suboptimal.
Said another way, this nerfs Hazou's spreadsheet vision, which was never intended to be a power of his.
Give it to me straight. Are we being nerfed?
Yes and no.
Yes: Almost all NPCs matched the pyramid rules, so comparing the column builds to the pyramid builds, you're being nerfed.
No: Most NPCs are not S-rankers, and once your stats start to cap out, your buffs and hax become crucial. The Gouketsu buff stack is extremely strong and diverse. Comparing the pyramid Gouketsu to pyramid normal ninja, you're being buffed.
Overall, we expect this to have little effect in the short term, be a nerf in the medium term, and be a buff in the long term. We expect the medium term nerf to be balanced out by the more diverse stat arrays you'll need to have, which will hopefully encourage more missions and dynamic gameplay as you search for S-rank tricks (which is now appropriately difficult to reach on stats alone).
I have more questions/I don't like this change!
Please ping @Paperclipped with your questions.
Current plan for Hazou to have a valid pyramid so we can raise resolve:
MedKnow -> 10
Substitution -> 20
Physique -> 30
Calligraphy -> 40
Earthshaping -> 50
Resolve -> 60
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Noburi Training Plan
which is less than two more months with SC and just over 4 months without it
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Part of it is base rate. Part of it is that you get OOC XP. Part of it is that you got Shadow Clone, which allowed you to read Jiraiya's notes faster. By far the biggest part is your Sealing Scroll Acolyte stunt, which added 22 levels in Sealing literally overnight.
Why would she have to be in Leaf? Couldn't she do it in Mist just as well?
- Location
- Liverpool
I'm still not at the point of doing my massive retrospective, so let me just say I have never felt a character lean against the fourth wall, elbowing us to get a clue, as much as this and the calligraphy admission. I genuinely very much enjoy them
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If Ami knows how to securely FOOM in Mist without Asuma exploding and without Mist's various spying clans like those detachable body parts guys observing, she absolutely needs to come with us when we go to Mist for our bloodline secrets.
Also, it belatedly occurs to me that the whole "Leaf jonin are stronger bc shadow clone" is plausibly counterbalanced by Mist jonin all being able to refuel whenever they want for training, something Leaf jonin profusely thanked Noburi for as the extra training saved their lives. Mist has had this for a hundred years and Leaf for like 2
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Escorting the Dogs will take between 2 to 8 weeks from what we know, so he may be nearly done with detour 0 by the time he's back from the Conclave
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
There's a part of me that thinks, despite all the reasons to be worried about resurrection, that rezzing Jiraiya is completely plausible with minimal negative consequences.
See, he's a smart guy, and he knows how to play the sneaky game when he wants to. He most certainly is not going to want to cause the destruction of civilization with careless actions. If we explain the stakes and worries to him before we rez him, I think we can get him to avoid coming back to Leaf for a time. Put on a disguise, keep his power level hidden, work behind the scenes until we can put all the ducks in a row and find a route to "Jiraiya publicly returns to Leaf".
The most important thing, imo, is to get him out of the Pure Lands. I refuse to accept a plan that leaves him there to dissipate into nothing if we can do anything about it. Secondary to that, I want him back in our lives, so we can share all those heartfelt character interactions with each other. Neither of those strictly require he return immediately to Leaf, and if him doing so would cause problems then I'm okay with making that compromise.
Hopefully Naruto is too, because it looks like we aren't getting this done without him, and just like us he'll be very invested in saving Jiraiya. I'm not sure how much of our concerns we can share with Naruto, since we can't exactly share the "We need to do the ultimate treason by rezzing Pain and helping him take over the world" thing, but I'm hoping there's enough Mori doom and gloom to convince him that we're best off keeping Jiraiya incognito for a while.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If we're resurrecting both of them then why would Jiraiya need to stay hidden
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Rezzing Pain is sort of what I mean by 'get our ducks in a row to be ready for the reveal', tbh. Not exclusively, if there are other ways to set things up then that's good too, but I mainly want to dissuade people from putting off the Jiraiya search because we can't afford to let him return to Leaf before we rez Pein or set up other plans or something. Even if we hop through the rift and find him within 30 minutes of searching, I think we can safely pull him out of there.
Doesn't this technically work with all strong Leaf ninja, barring maybe Hiashi? We could perhaps resurrect them and transport them to live on the Seventh Path for a time if we figured out a way to open rifts into that literally without a Scroll. Perhaps by studying our own. Them going there also potentially helps with Dragons. Obviously getting Jiraiya back is a priority, though.
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Litany of Rules
Glanced past these looking for rules. Great Kagome chapters long overdue for a reread.
— Kagome, 2023
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So unless Sasori comes up with an entirely different method to open the rift they're going to have to snag a bijuu to crack it open. Hopefully we can hear about it immediately through AMITY which would let us rush to the rift to ambush them
Eisenhelm
gran dutch of douchery
- Location
- Colombia
Is curious how the foremost leaf sealing specialists is the most selfless person and the foremost mist social expert is among the most selfish ones.
I suppose is a matter of perspective, a successful social opts puts themselves above nations worth of people and beyond any sort of consequences or needs if they play their cards right; meanwhile a successful sealing master is always just a bad roll of the dice away from dead or worse but have power beyond what is posible for anyone else, no wonder Kagome sees politics and scoffs at them, he deals whit worse on a daily basis.
Ami believes danger to her is deterministic, if she does x her opponent is going to do Z every time so she just has to do what gives her the most favorable result, even her improvisation falls under this; to Kagome danger is probabilistic, even a twitch of the hand can get him killed, so he has to stack as many safeguards as he can.
Same whit social situations; who would had tough two students would have wormed their way into Kagome's recluse hearth and give him a family, but now that he has them he must keep them alive and happy. Meanwhile Ami doesn't accept people as they are, she has to understand them but then molds them to her preferences after she find the raw material worthy enough of her attention.
So a person like Jiraiya (and maybe hazo eventually), which is an unholy mix of both is the undesputed master of both hard and soft power.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
There's also precedence for Sannin to come back from death. And he is the most recently dead Leaf S-ranker.
Actually, depending on the conditions that we find the souls in the afterlife in, we could just fairly resurrect all the victims of Nagi island, or all the S-rankers who died there/died since (other than Pain), or whatever else seems like a plausible but limited result. Maybe remaining coherent and savable requires certain qualities and has a time limit. And if it does not, we can lie about it, as long as the souls we bring back don't have a reason to contradict us and the souls we leave behind for now don't know about it in a way that would screw us during a later rescue mission.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Theoretically, yeah. Other than the OPSEC implications, it is an option. Still, requires she be relatively stationary -- it's not really something you can do in the field or while on missions.
- Location
- Texas
We should probably ask Kagome to use that Bio-chakra tracking veterancy to see if he can rig up something with a longer ranger and no assassination orb attached to it. Even if it's only... I don't know, a kilometer range, that still helps out the search in the Pure Land a whole lot.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
We could rescue a limited amount of people including Jiraiya and have everyone agree that the official and unofficial story is that Jiraiya invented a seal that brought him and a group of others back, but it has to be made and used on the other side, cos the Pure Path's sealing is different, so no need to be alarmed, other than a bunch of Leaf-nin being alive again.
- Location
- Fifth Dimension
[X] Noburi Training Plan
- Location
- a
Why can't she just conspire with you know, the literal chakra battery clan that Noburi comes from?
I think you are greatly overestimating our value in relevance to her FOOMING here.......
Yeah, why is it that everything Kei said about the political implications of resurrecting people and everything Kagome said about scaring the normies did not cause the greater ninja community to freak out about Orochimaru? He's just sitting in his lab in Leaf, doing research on who knows what, and no one is concerned?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Because of shadow clone OPSEC. It's something that Asuma would not hesitate to kill her over.