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Fair enough, we'll have to wait and see how the update plays out. I am currently in favor of "manage the current crisis, don't make drastic moves, hope Oro goes back to his den lab sooner rather than later".
I think it would be fair to say that regularly hoping Oro just doesn't bother us is part of the reason he's blindsided us. We have 0 ways of dealing with him because thus far our strategy has been "hope he doesn't notice us". So when he does actually notice us, there is no plan of action to turn to.

We (more Kei and Noburi than Hazou) are virtually guaranteed to regularly be in his immediate proximity in the future due to Summon Army duties.
 
I think it would be fair to say that regularly hoping Oro just doesn't bother us is part of the reason he's blindsided us. We have 0 ways of dealing with him because thus far our strategy has been "hope he doesn't notice us". So when he does actually notice us, there is no plan of action to turn to.

We (more Kei and Noburi than Hazou) are virtually guaranteed to regularly be in his immediate proximity in the future due to Summon Army duties.

I mean, he did not notice us, we're the one that invited him into our compound and then Hazoupilot decided to talk to him without our help. He/Mari just needed to:
1) Not scream "I have secret sealing powers, trust me" or "My daughter has indipendent Shadow Clones(Admittedly as a distraction, so Mari is forgiven...kinda)"

EDIT: also, everyone has 0 ways of dealing with him, it comes with being an S-ranker.
 
I mean, he did not notice us, we're the one that invited him into our compound and then Hazoupilot decided to talk to him without our help.
We (more Kei and Noburi than Hazou) are virtually guaranteed to regularly be in his immediate proximity in the future due to Summon Army duties.
I don't think "Just go back to hoping he doesn't notice us" is a workable solution

EDIT: also, everyone has 0 ways of dealing with him, it comes with being an S-ranker.
Ami dealt with him
 
Given the contents of the last update, we have good reason to believe that Orochimaru mainly left us alone not because of forgetfulness or a long to-do list but because he didn't think the Iron Nerve was particularly worth investigation, at least relative to the inconvenience factor.

Also in that update, we gave him reason to be more interested in the Iron Nerve. Not full 'I can download seals' interested, but interested enough that Mari had to press an emergency button to get him away from us.

Hoping for him to just forget about us or for him to have too long a to-do list to get around to us is a fool's errand. If our situation is already too inconvenient for him to pursue us then we don't need to do anything, but as it stands that's a gamble I'm not confident in, and the entire quest is the stakes. It'd be criminally lazy of us to not try and stack the deck in our favour one way or another because we're hoping that if we just ignore the problem it'll go away.
 
To be fair, it took Ami funneling all of Leaf's current and future financially destitute into Orochimaru's basement for Orochimaru to allow her to live. And, tellingly enough, Ami hasn't been eager to interact with Orochimaru a second time.
Ami doesn't have the protections of being a Leaf Clan Head and the Mizukage and Hokage both hate her guts, she's much less inconvenient to kill than Hazou. There would be much greater consequence for Hazou getting basemented, as Ami would probably notify Mist, so Mist/the Kurosawa would throw a fit, meanwhile Clan Heads would be jostling Asuma over it due to the precedent it sets and all that pressure on him would likely force him to tell Tsunade and Naruto to go bap Orochimaru on the head or blow up a floor of his lab or something as punishment. I doubt Leaf would kick him out but he can't literally do whatever he wants (in my model of the world). And if it's more convenient to not kill Hazou than to kill Hazou, then he wouldn't do it. Plus, he has reason to believe the Dragon Crisis is real now, so he would sort of be shooting his immortality in the foot if he removed one of the only people who can help research it for idle curiosity, and while Oro is dumb about many things, I don't think threatening his own immortality is one of them (then again, he constantly undersells other people's abilities so he may not think Hazou would improve the odds of success one way or another...)

Also Orochimaru is a psycho weirdo but he's still fond enough of Hazou in a deranged way to call him nephew

Are there any other deals we can think of besides voluntary vivisection to make him stop mind whammying Hazou whenever he wants? I'm not sure anything really interests him outside of biology or maybe forbidden lore. Damn, if only we'd kept those lion corpses...

If our situation is already too inconvenient for him to pursue us then we don't need to do anything
I mean, no harm in coming up with lines of action even if it's currently too inconvenient for him to pursue us, since that could always change
 
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Are there any other deals we can think of besides voluntary vivisection to make him stop mind whammying Hazou whenever he wants? I'm not sure anything really interests him outside of biology or maybe forbidden lore. Damn, if only we'd kept those lion corpses...
We might see if Kei and Shikamaru might be willing to share information about the five. Not sure that's viable but worth considering
 
We might see if Kei and Shikamaru might be willing to share information about the five. Not sure that's viable but worth considering
y'know I was actually wondering, why does Oro want to dissect a Thinker ninja anyways? I can't imagine that they really have unique physiology that would tell him how they speak to the Five, though I guess the communication from otherworldly entities is heritable, so there's something biological going on...still, not like he is good enough to like discern brain patterns or anything

[X] Tell Orochimaru that he's a bad scientist and doesn't know shit
 
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As I see it there are five basic strategies to make sure we don't end up on a slab in the basement
  1. Make the cost of abducting any of the Goketsu to high for Oro to pay
  2. Cut some sort of deal with Oro
  3. convince Oro that we have no value as experimental subjects
  4. Run away so we are outside of Oro's influence
  5. Kill Oro
If anyone else has ideas for broad strategies to handle keeping us from getting ultra-murdered would love to add them
 
he seems interested in non-bio sealing too. going by his comment not to insult the sealing profession with the great seal replica.
What do we reckon his Sealing Stat is anyways? He wasn't as good as Jiraiya who we ballpark as 80 or so, so would he be about a 70? A 60 even?

If anyone else has ideas for broad strategies to handle keeping us from getting ultra-murdered would love to add them
Get back in favor of Naruto so he protects us :rofl:
Alternatively, find some way to power up Asuma so he can actually pose a threat to Orochimaru. (Seals of some kind, more than likely).
Mari should be capable of handling him in a year or two...
 
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What do we reckon his Sealing Stat is anyways? He wasn't as good as Jiraiya who we ballpark as 80 or so, so would he be about a 70? A 60 even?
If we assume "biosealing" isn't a stat on its own, but is, instead, a category of sealing (such as Dimensionalism and explosives are) then I would propose Orochimaru has a sealing stat of 60-70, a medical knowledge of 80s or so, and the rest of his stats (physique, athletics, etc) being boosted to insane levels as a result of his most successful biosealing creations.

Because I get the feeling that Orochimaru has just as much medical knowledge as Tsunade, it's just that his interest lies in biosealing, whereas Tsunade's is in Med Jutsu (and possibly TH-ing, since her Super Strength Jutsu is a thing in MfD).
 
If we assume "biosealing" isn't a stat on its own, but is, instead, a category of sealing (such as Dimensionalism and explosives are) then I would propose Orochimaru has a sealing stat of 60-70, a medical knowledge of 80s or so, and the rest of his stats (physique, athletics, etc) being boosted to insane levels as a result of his most successful biosealing creations.
One thing to remember is that Oro was taken out during the battle against Akatsuki. So he's not huge levels ahead of all the other elite jounin who survived the battle. He's scary but not pain level scary
 
Reminder: Hazou-pilot exists and can/will act independently to alter or veto details of an action plan. We-the-hivemind have no control over Hazou-pilot's executive decisions.

Reminder: The hivemind can draft a perfect action plan, but Hazou-the-character can fail to perfectly implement it. The Minami Trade Deal Discussion had a damn near perfect action plan, but Hazou-the-character was unable to execute it perfectly due to social stats.
Hazou stood his ground against direct fury of Itachi and Asuma, smoothly navigated his interactions with Hidan, and threw himself at Zabuza because we told him to. Why is Orochimaru being treated as some sort of captial-G God-monster such that merely engaging with the concept of him would be enough to turn Hazou into a helpless puppet? How exactly would the submit-plan-in-written-form approach fail, Hazou gets so nervous thinking about Oro he accidentally misspells the entire thing as "I submit to your eternal servitude"?
I would suggest that we include Oro providing some Collateral to be held by a trusted party
Sure. His Leaf resources (the Basement, etc.) already sort of serve in that capacity here, though, since Asuma (as per 4.3) would probably oust him if Hazou dies. Or, well, do whatever it is that makes Oro more or less stay in line.
This is really solid. My only concern is making it a... continuous deterrent, I guess? May need to include a stipulation for how frequently Oro can do this kind of procedure so he doesn't try to pressure for more
Sure, sounds good.
There exists no force in Leaf that would actually deter Orochimaru from breaking the deal if he chooses to. Tsunade is his comrade(?), and Naruto doesn't care about Hazou enough to risk his life punishing Orochimaru. Asuma isn't strong enough without their support.
Well then Oro can very well just do it right now, no? He'd probably really like to study the Sharingan, why's Sasuke still alive? Why is anyone still alive, why didn't he vivisect all of Leaf yet?

Naruto might not care about Hazou personally, but he would obey Asuma's orders.
I've said as much previously. But say Oro claims that a tragic accident occurred and Hazou died on the table because of an unexpected allergic reaction (or whatever). By doing so he presents any enforcer with a fait accompli, accept what happened and move on, or destroy 1/3 of Leaf's S-Rankers with no guarantee of victory.

Oro doesn't need an ironclad story, all he needs to do is create enough doubt that Asuma can let things go without too much of a fuss.
I specifically ruled out this sort of outcome with point 4.3. Edited for clarity now:
Asuma agrees that, if the outcome of the procedure is that Hazou suffers one of the conditions outlined under point 2.1, Asuma will treat it the same way he would treat Orochimaru kidnapping and non-consensually dissecting a Clan Head for the purposes of stealing their clan's clan secrets, regardless of any explanations and justifications Orochimaru or Tsunade may provide.
 
Well then Oro can very well just do it right now, no? He'd probably really like to study the Sharingan, why's Sasuke still alive? Why is anyone still alive, why didn't he vivisect all of Leaf yet?
We actually probably should talk to Sasuke about Orochimaru, cuz even here the dude is kinda obsessed with the Sharingan. Even made a point to say when he first met Hazou that the Iron Nerve is important to have since there's so few Sharingan users left. The fuck did Sasuke say to him that made him buzz off?
 
Why is Orochimaru being treated as some sort of captial-G God-monster such that merely engaging with the concept of him would be enough to turn Hazou into a helpless puppet? How exactly would the submit-plan-in-written-form approach fail, Hazou gets so nervous thinking about Oro he accidentally misspells the entire thing as "I submit to your eternal servitude"?

Severe consequences. Any time dice roll, we fail and Orochimaru gets to pick what comes next.

In a month we could probably have a conversation with him. Maybe.
 
Severe consequences. Any time dice roll, we fail and Orochimaru gets to pick what comes next.

In a month we could probably have a conversation with him. Maybe.
But the entire point is that we don't have to talk to him. We can have Mari or Ami deliver the message. We can do it by sending summons. We aren't talking to him we are delivering contracts to be negotiated. If Orochimaru has any objections he can send them to us in writing
 
Severe consequences. Any time dice roll, we fail and Orochimaru gets to pick what comes next.
Noumero was explicitly saying we don't talk to him, merely draft the proposed deal and have someone else arbitrate it.
How exactly would the submit-plan-in-written-form approach fail, Hazou gets so nervous thinking about Oro he accidentally misspells the entire thing as "I submit to your eternal servitude"?
 
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he seems interested in non-bio sealing too. going by his comment not to insult the sealing profession with the great seal replica.
I don't remember when exactly it was said, but you don't become a bio-sealer without first getting really good at the fundamentals of sealing. It makes logical sense too - people who try get a seal failure inside them.
 
A thought: Orochimaru should be at least as interested in the Byakugan as the Iron Nerve. It's literally an X ray, and would catapult his physiology research forward.

This suggests that either he already has dissected some Hyuga back when he was in leaf and created an acceptable alternative, or that he really really wants to (at least as much as he wanted to study Hazō when he thought we could do 3D scanning).

Oro sucks at any social that requires getting along with people. Assuming he hasn't already created a Byakugan alternative, he's not going to be able to get any Hyuga to willingly work with him to do research even though it would really help him. If we could somehow work as a sort of hiring manager for him, then he wouldn't need to study the iron nerve and we would at the same time become incredibly useful to him.

And if he already has a Byakugan alternative, then he has a way to study Hazō non-invasively. We just need to figure out which it is.




It's also worth noting that Ami isn't the only non-essie who can somewhat deal with Oro. Asuma can too. We should think about how he does that, there might be a few things we can use to avoid dying.
  • First off, Asuma has Naruto and Tsunade, who Oro probably doesn't particularly want to fight since it would be annoying and might even jeopardize his immortality. We've already considered using this angle.
  • Next, Asuma officially has authority as Hokage over Oro. I doubt this contributes much.
  • Third and I think most importantly, the power of the purse. Asuma gives Tower funding to Oro's research. He can incentivize Oro to do things by offering more funding, or give him slaps on the wrist by decreasing funding. We're dirt poor, so we can't do this yet, BUT in the future this is something we should consider once we fix our finances.
 
Maybe....Oro isn't just kidnapping people anymore and wouldn't kidnap Hazou either. Maybe we're overreacting. All signs point to Oro not kidnapping even normal bloodlined individuals, and thus him kidnapping a head of a clan seems unlikely.
 
Maybe....Oro isn't just kidnapping people anymore and wouldn't kidnap Hazou either. Maybe we're overreacting. All signs point to Oro not kidnapping even normal bloodlined individuals, and thus him kidnapping a head of a clan seems unlikely.
People thinking he's still willing to do it definitely benefits Orochimaru more than anyone else
 
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