To be clear, your plan is to approach Oro and ask him nicely to help us? I don't think that has a snowball's chance in hell of working. He'll brush us off, he's not interested in working with Hazou, he has demonstrated that multiple times. He doesn't think we can contribute anything.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rational rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Hazou is trained in vastly more advanced math and apparently quite competent at it due to the fact that he isn't dead. He also has a unique talent for lists. There is no reason to believe that he can't construct basic ballistic charts based on simple observations of simple experiments about simple monotonic relationships.
Having the support of an unkillable demigoddess and the Hokage son of his mentior who allowed him to escape alive and the adopted son of the Hokage who was his mentior who helped him escape a short life of pain backing and the kid his brother-in-arms adopted as a son who allowed him to voluntarily repatriate himself at his leisure might convince him to limitedly reveal some things about what he has been researching for decades.
He's a ruthless psychopath, but he'd be dead if he was a stupid ruthless psychopath. He will do whatever is in his best interests in much the same way I engineered his return by credibly threatening a large part of the the accumulated reference material while simultaneously presenting him with the option of securing it and returning to help defend Leaf. He is the most rational, straightforward, and predictable character in the entire setting. If it looks like he isn't it just means that you aren't operating on his level.
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First off, Naruto hates Hazou and won't support him about this. Second, Tsunade will likely think the rez scheme is a waste of time since it's never going to work (from her POV). Same with Asuma, they're not interested in resurrecting anyone, they think it's impossible. I find the prospect of obtaining their support dubious to say the least.
Say we do all of that, get their unwavering support, what are they going to do when Oro blows us off, kill him? We have no leverage and Oro doesn't think our help is of any use.
First, haven't even mentioned Naruto, who would probably have quite the desire to see again the father-figure of his formative years who died saving his life. Second, while original canon isn't canon here, the fact that very skilled GMs who have proven themselves very capable of turning it into a believable representation and that Orochimaru has achieved it before means that we have reason to suspect that somebody at the table has knowledge that it is at least marginally possible and could be improved upon, and that's ignoring the fact that somebody at the table credibly already returned the dead to life full and intact due to it being part of a confession which he knew was almost certain to get him executed.
Oro blows us off over contributing something that costs him nothing which helps himself and one of his very few close trusted friends? Fine, we back off and let the others decide how to deal with it. Waaaay out of our paycheck. -but, the fact that he might not kinda obligates us to make the offer of cooperation to reverse the early demises of his best and most trusted friend and the closest person to a father who personally saved and generously nurtured multiple orphans from a short life of ignominious agony and then couldn't bring himself to justifiably execute him when he betrayed him with the help and support of the closest thing he has ever had to a sister.
If anything can crack the psychopathic shell he's constructed to protect himself, it is that. A chance at redemption.
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MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
Ok question is what exactly is the avenue your guys want to use to raise the dead?
Like lets assume that we want rip a hole in reality a drag jiraya from the aftherlife.
If is dimentionalism you want anyone asside from oro wont be of much help.
What we need is atudy 3D sealing and the sumoning scroll seal to lear on open q portal to a specific phat.
Oro will help us of we have a wokable teory and not come wild guesses.
So step 1 is heal. Step 2 sudy the sumoning scroll and 3D sealing. Step 3 make a teory and see if or help.
Assuma will not be botered with the research as long as it do not endanger leaf, Tsunade may help if oro is convinced otherwise is waste of our time.
Like lets assume that we want rip a hole in reality a drag jiraya from the aftherlife.
If is dimentionalism you want anyone asside from oro wont be of much help.
What we need is atudy 3D sealing and the sumoning scroll seal to lear on open q portal to a specific phat.
Oro will help us of we have a wokable teory and not come wild guesses.
So step 1 is heal. Step 2 sudy the sumoning scroll and 3D sealing. Step 3 make a teory and see if or help.
Assuma will not be botered with the research as long as it do not endanger leaf, Tsunade may help if oro is convinced otherwise is waste of our time.
We have a residue of it actually happening researched by multiple specialized bloodlines and access to many sealmasters and jutsu-hackers. Leaf is allied with more minor and major nations with their own resources than anybody else. Hell, B would probably like to see his brother again, so add in another major power. We might even manage to stave off the burgeoning world war with the prospect of a cooperative Manhattan Project to achieve it.
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MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
I mean if we must im all for it but right now lets see if we can complete it by ourselves before totaly alter the way ninjas wage war again.
Reminder that there is a snowballing clock on the next world war. Every second counts.
You really need to stop using a voice-to-text system tuned with a corpus overwhelmingly composed of vastly different accents. Some of us can make out the results, but many might not.
Akatsuki is a separate issue and for the very same reason they let Jiraiya die in the first place despite very much not wanting to the GMs aren't going to suddenly hurl a new threat out of nowhere at us just because we jumped the previous hurdle.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Probably nothing, like the rest of our allies, for the moment.
either whatever Orochimaru tells them to do, or waiting to see what they should do (we only just got word Rock is attacking after all)
Update's schedule is every Sunday and Thursday.
- Location
- Yes.
Hm.
@eaglejarl @Velorien Could you possibly list when updates are meant to be posted in a separate section of the info post? I know you list them when introducing yourselves, but putting them seperately could help to alleviate confusion as I recall people coming in to ask when updates drop many times in the past.
@eaglejarl @Velorien Could you possibly list when updates are meant to be posted in a separate section of the info post? I know you list them when introducing yourselves, but putting them seperately could help to alleviate confusion as I recall people coming in to ask when updates drop many times in the past.
That would be double-posting. Spooky.
Chapter 459: Lessons
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
"Good evening, Haru. Please, have a seat," Hazō said, gesturing to the chair across from him.
"Good evening, My Lord." Haru sat, back completely straight and expression attentive.
"We're here to discuss your punishment and under what circumstances it might end. Please speak frankly," Hazō said. "No matter what you say I won't be upset and there won't be any additional punishment."
"Thank you, My Lord."
Hazō looked closely at his subordinate. Had the words been too rote, the face too blank? ...No. No, Haru was masking anger at his current situation but he did seem to appreciate the frankness.
"Haru, why do you think I was disappointed about the Yakuza incident?"
Surprise flickered across Haru's face. "If we're being frank, My Lord, my impression is that you weren't particularly upset. I'm being punished because Lady Akane was upset and you followed her wishes. You were just going to tell me to be more careful, perhaps scold me, but you were doing it because the Hokage ordered you to."
Hazō winced, which earned him a minor jolt of pain from his still-healing collarbone. He breathed through it and massaged his thigh; this morning he had gone out to do seal testing with Kagome-sensei, hiking two hours each way through resentfully drizzling rain and two feet of snow quickly turning to slush. The combination was doing bad things to his injuries. The bones were fused but not completely healed and they still ached sometimes, especially when the weather was cold and wet.
He pushed the thoughts aside and went back to the conversation.
"That's...not entirely wrong, but also not entirely right," he said, choosing his words carefully. He sat back and sighed, twiddling a brush between his fingers. "Haru, you've heard us talk about Uplift but we've never really sat down and gone through it with you, have we?"
"No, My Lord."
"What is the prime duty of a Leaf ninja?"
"To obey the Hokage, My Lord."
"Okay, fair. In an instrumental sense that's correct. But I would argue that the true duty is to protect the people of Leaf—of Fire Country in general, actually—and the reason we are taught to obey the Hokage is because he is best equipped to know how to do that. He has access to more information and better advisors than anyone else. If he issues an order that seems strange then we can safely assume that there's a reason for it based on something we don't know and he does. One that accords with the Will of Fire, which directs us to protect those around us. Would you agree?"
"Yes, My Lord. I hadn't thought of it that way."
"You know you can just call me Hazō, right?"
"Is that an order, My Lord? My understanding is that I am supposed to be a civilian right now. No civilian would address you by your given name without a direct order."
Hazō deflated. "It's fine. Just lay off the 'My Lord', would you? It's weird."
"Yes sir."
"Right. Um...oh, protecting others being the first duty. Okay, what's the best way to protect the people of Fire?"
"Maintain vigilance and exterminate anything or anyone that threatens them so it can't do it again, sir."
"A year ago I would have agreed with that but running the clan has made me think more deeply about it. When the Hagoromo called us out I was forced to react. You're a taijutsu fighter like me; I'm sure you had some grizzled old instructor give you the same advice I got: You always want to be acting, never reacting." He smiled involuntarily at memories of the Academy, and his voice dropped into a grumbling parody of the grizzled old instructor in question: "'What do you think you're doing blocking that attack?! Only losers block attacks, boy! Use your range, your positioning, and control the tempo! Harrass him, don't let him get the attack off in the first place!'"
Haru smiled slightly. "I might remember one or two lectures like that, sir."
"Okay, good. I've started noticing that politics is a lot like taijutsu—it's nice if you're bigger and stronger and have more reach than your opponent but the person who wins is generally the one who chooses the environment, controls the range, and stays within the appropriate engagement category. If you're fighting a striker, grapple. If you're fighting a grappler, strike. That kind of thing. When we went after the Hagoromo we were starting off flat-footed. We needed to do the research on how to hurt them and where the targets were. I should have had plans in place so that we could launch the attack instantly. The same is true of protecting Fire and its people. We're better off preventing threats than reacting to them."
Haru nodded. "That makes sense, sir."
"What made you go after the Yakuza?"
"At first it was because our people were being hurt and we didn't have the manpower to protect them all. The Yakuza have thugs and they make good enough bodyguards against civilian crime."
"And later?"
"Someone, probably the Hagoromo or Hyūga, had attacked us through the bank and we didn't know if another attack was coming. To use your taijutsu metaphor, sir, we were fighting in a dark room and had been punched in the nose. We were reeling and didn't know where the enemy was. We needed to localize them and launch an immediate counter attack in order to jam them up and break their flow."
"Okay, but killing Yakuza opened our flank to a new set of threats: Pissing off the Hokage. It's like you threw out a meia lua in order to clear the zone, but you put your hands on the ground while you did it so you left your head exposed."
"Meia lua, sir?"
Right. Iju-sensei had always been a weird one, his techniques scoffed at by more traditional instructors. Unsurprising that they hadn't made it to Fire. "Sorry, I forgot that's not from here. Meia Lua de Compasso is the full name. One of my instructors made it up and it became his signature move. It's something like a roundhouse but it's done from a side-on stance with the back leg and it covers a full 180. You need to lean down as a counterbalance and there's a tendency to put your hands on the ground for balance. Iju-sensei always told me to keep my hands up and be ready to roll away from an attack."
"I see, sir."
Hazō cursed silently. He'd been making that work until he accidentally pointed up his foreign birth. Damn, if only his leg would stop aching so he could focus.
"Okay, bad example. Anyway, going back to your metaphor: You're fighting in the dark, you've been punched in the nose. You need to find the target so you fire off a spinning backfist but you drop your other hand and leave yourself open. That's what happened when you started killing Yakuza. It was an effective way to get information and get bodyguards for our people, but it meant violating the civilian protection laws. If our enemies, whoever they might have been, had learned you were doing it then they could have brought charges to the Hokage. He would have had to execute you."
"With respect, sir: He found out about it and did nothing. Yakuza are scum, Lord Hokage knows they're scum, and he didn't care."
"Perhaps, but the only reason he could blow it off is because no one actually brought charges. That's why he told me to tell you to cut it out before someone did make a thing out of it."
"I see your point, sir."
"I'm getting a little lost in the weeds. My point was more about unintended consequences and the best way to protect people. The best way to protect people is to prevent them from being attacked in the first place, right? Not to defeat an assassin, but to ensure that an assassin never attacks."
"That makes sense, sir."
"Okay, that's what Uplift is about, at least at a basic level. If everyone has a good life then there's no need for them to try to kill each other. People with a good place to live and plenty to eat generally don't take out loans that they can't repay and end up with broken knees." He raised a hand. "It's oversimplified, I know. Some people are habitual gamblers and get themselves in a hole regardless of how much money they have and some people are greedy for power and so on. Still, the general point is sound."
"Yes sir."
"The same applies between countries. If Earth Country wasn't a giant desert then Rock ninja wouldn't be trying to steal our land." He shook his head. "Honestly, part of me wonders if it would make sense for us to take that fertility jutsu and see if we can turn some Earth Country dirt into decent growing land. It's just an idle thought—there's a whole raft of problems with the idea that would need to be ironed out before I would even dream of approaching the Hokage for permission—but I think that if it could be made to work then it might have prevented the Collapse and the current war."
Haru looked surprised. A muscle in his cheek twitched as he started to say something but he kept his mouth closed and simply listened attentively.
"That's the thing, Haru...life is precious." Hazō winced as a spike of pain went through his ankle. He shifted, arranging his legs more carefully to reduce stress on the joints, and then had to think for a moment to remember where he was. "All life, even civilians. If all the civilians die then ninja will go hungry. Shoot, if the wrong group of civilians die then ninja will have no clothes, no tools, no new-build homes. Killing to protect, killing for duty...that's something we all understand. Yes, even me. It should still be avoided when possible. If you truly believed the Yakuza posed immediate risk to the innocent, that's one thing. If it was just convenient then you should have found a better way."
"I understand that, sir."
"You do?"
"Yes sir." His voice remained almost completely calm as he said, "I've had a great deal of time to think since you stripped my ninja status from me, sir. The civilians want nothing to do with me. They know that your wrath might descend at any moment and they don't want to be collateral damage if it does. Also, they still think of me as a ninja even though Lord Noburi is assuring that I'm no stronger or faster than they are and I can't use jutsu against them. Not that I would—they are Gōketsu, even if they treat me like a pariah. My purpose is to protect them and raise them up."
"They treat you like—" Hazō shook his head, flicking the topic away. "Put a pin in that because I'm going to want to come back to it, but I'd like to stay on topic right now. You were saying?"
"The Gōketsu mission is to make life better for everyone, sir. Yakuza might be scum who harm their community but that doesn't mean that killing them accords with the Will of Fire or the Way of the Gōketsu. I should have found a different path." He shrugged. "I could probably just have bribed them, at least in the beginning before I gave all my money to that town."
"Wait, what?"
"You weren't aware, sir? Two, three months ago I withdrew all my money from the clan bank and gave it to the people of Tall Rock. It's a village about twenty miles northeast. I told them to use it for tools, or till'n'fills, or whatever. In retrospect it would have been better to leave them to their own devices and give the money to the Yakuza."
"I didn't know about that. You giving away your money, I mean."
Haru shrugged.
"You gave them all of it?"
Haru shrugged again. "What do I need money for? I've got a nice apartment to myself, there's plenty of good food whenever I want it, and I get clothes and seals and weapons for free. Advantages of being a clan ninja, sir."
"Wow. Good for you."
"Thank you, sir, although apparently I need money for bribes to Yakuza. I'll remember that for next time, sir."
Hazō sat in silence for a moment, digesting the implications. "We need to check on Tall Rock and see what they did with the money and how they're doing in general. It would give good information about how to most effectively help villages in the future."
"I would volunteer to go get that information, sir, but civilians such as myself prefer not to travel during the winter."
Hazō gave his subordinate a bit of side-eye but the tone had been absolutely polite and respectful so there wasn't much to object to. "You said you've been thinking about this?"
"Yes, sir. Life as a civilian pariah means I have a great deal of time to think. Especially while smashing large rocks into small rocks. The repetition of it is very good for numbing the mind and allowing you to focus." He paused, thinking. "First, it was bad to kill the Yakuza. All life is precious and I should have found a different way. Not just because it violated the law and made us vulnerable to the Hokage but because it was wrong. In the future, assuming I ever regain my ninja status, I should find positive methods that rely on things like bribery and favors. I should talk to Lady Mari about that since she is an expert. And I should make restitution of some kind. Do you have suggestions, sir?"
"I think it would be appropriate to apologize to the families of the people you killed. After that I'll make a judgement call on your punishment."
"Very good, sir. Shall I go do that now or is there anything else you'd like to discuss?"
"...No, I think that's it. Gaku should have the list of the families in question. But leave it for the morning. It's dark and raining."
"Thank you, sir. Would you prefer that I do it as a civilian or while wearing the Gōketsu crest?"
"I think the crest would be appropriate. Thank you, Haru."
"Of course, sir. Do I have permission to go?"
"Absolutely. Thank you for coming in."
Haru stood up and bowed to exactly the right degree, then turned and left without a word.
Hazō sat back in his chair and put his legs up on the pair of little sling stools that was placed there for the purpose, one under the lower thighs and one under the calves. It wasn't something he would do during a formal meeting since it made him look goofy, but it was a lot more comfortable. He even went so far as to pull the jar of Lady Tsunade's pain medicine out of his drawer and take a swig. He deserved it after how well that had gone, and there wasn't enough on the docket that it would matter if he was a little fuzzy-headed. Perhaps he would even drift off for a bit...
Author's Notes: It's getting late and I don't have another scene in me so I'm going to summarize the results with Kagome. You got on your heavy weather gear and hiked two hours away from the estate. This was challenging for Hazō since it was raining constantly, very cold, there's snow (rapidly becoming slush in the rain) on the ground, and he needs a cane right now. It took two hours each way and time was spent on making a MEW shelter when you got there. Results were as follows:
- Combine PMYF with stupid boxes (ranged, time-delayed massive explosion).
This doesn't work because a PMYF is a storage seal with a timer and a stupid box is a storage seal with an about-to-explode box in it. You can't put a seal in a seal. - PMYF Macerator.
No idea what this means so Hazō did not try it. - SIN-13 seemingly failed because air couldn't escape correctly. Does Kagome think SIN-10 are safe? If not, what highest SIN stack is?
Back in chapter 287 when you were experimenting with SIN stacks, you didn't start with a SIN-13. You started with a SIN-1 then 2, 3, and on up until things failed at 13. Clearly a SIN-10 is safe at least sometimes. Kagome-sensei has no evidence for or against the idea that it's safe all the time. - Tunneler's Friend/SIN-1 with youthenizer. Fire needs air, so a paired seal releasing air may magnify the fireball. If SIN-1 works, try SIN-2 and SIN-3.
I'm not 100% sure what you're looking to try with this so I'm taking my best guess. You strapped a youthenizer seal and an implosion seal to the same kunai and threw it. You ran the experiment multiple times. Sometimes the youthenizer went off first and destroyed the implosion seal before it fired. Sometimes the implosion seal went off first and destroyed the youthenizer before it fired. - Macerating acid.
You weren't able to get any strong acid in the time available. You'll have it the day after tomorrow. - Macerating molten glass/metal.
Your macerators cannot grind up strong woods, let alone metal. There is no way to safely put molten material into a container that can be macerated with your current version. - You did not do the following because constant cold rain makes using skywalkers unsafe:
- Using Shadow Clone, investigate safest height Skywalkers can climb to, use Tunneler's Friend for air when necessary.
- Investigate sending Earth Clones to dive bomb targets from Skytower. If successful, give them explosive tags, test delivering seal payloads with precision from skytowers.
- Test high altitude boulder strikes ridden by earth clones that cast MEW within 30 seconds of impact for increased mass.
- Verify if permanent MEW can be produced with 10,000kg of rock on skytower 10 feet up.
You ordered the estate ninja to load 100 storage seals with dirt so that you can try this. They can't easily do it in the rain but they'll get it done tomorrow.
XP AWARD: 1 (Very good plan but the scene was too short for more than 1 XP.)
Brevity XP: 1
"GM had fun" XP: 1
It is now about 11am.
Vote time! What to do now?
Voting ends on Wednesday, August 25, 2021, at 12pm London time.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
- Location
- United States
I wonder how much of that was genuine and how much of that Hazou didn't catch because he's currently distracted by immense pain? Regardless, very good update EJ 
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Were Haru attempting to deceive Hazō I would have run a social combat with dice to see if Hazō noticed.I wonder how much of that was genuine and how much of that Hazou didn't catch because he's currently distracted by immense pain? Regardless, very good update EJ
Eisenhelm
gran dutch of douchery
- Location
- Colombia
i see, Haru has learned the deception by omission hability, I guess there are worse things to do whit some downtime.
- Location
- Yes.
But we could...put the physical materials (oil, coals, etc.) in a PMYF instead of a storage seal?
This is a seal (which Hazou has not yet researched) which combines the time-delayed effects of a PMYF with a Macerator seal.