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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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faflec said:
Edited to add.
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Ah, so that's what it means. Why are people just not using "EDIT" ? Its meaning is obvious and it has like one more letter in it.

I think I missed some Sealing discussion in my hurry to focus on the immediate plans.

Dictator4Hire said:
As for combat applications, giving our allies the ability to use our techniques is great, but for Hazou himself, what does a sealed version of MEW offer him in practice?
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No chakra cost for throwing up a wall. If it blocks a jutsu enemy had to spend chakra for it's a win-win for us. We can also add things like timers and triggers to it for more elaborate trap setups.
 
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Radvic said:
@Velorien Is there another format I can put the ideas behind Action Plan Diplomacy in which would be easier for you to write from and still get us the level of control over our actions or the expected results that we want? I really appreciate your writing and am totally willing to change the format of my plan to make it easier/more enjoyable for you to write from (but would prefer not to be punished in quest for doing so).
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I don't have an immediate answer to this. On the one hand, from a purely practical perspective, I am only going to write so many scenes per update, and only so many things happening per scene, and some of the things I write will not be directly related to your plan (like a sudden ninja tapir attack). So the fewer items there are on that plan the more likely you are to see them happen. On the other hand, I understand your desire to cover all the bases and be prepared for every contingency, since, y'know, ninja.

I'd be happy to experiment wtih different formats, like the one @RedV suggests, and see what works best. The thing that comes to mind first is that I think it would be better to limit the number of per-update actions, and have more of the information framed in terms of intent, contingencies, practical details etc. That way I could write a few scenes which are more closely in line with your plan, instead of trying to deal with a checklist which has too many points for me to adequately cover. Action Plan Diplomacy is actually pretty good in this respect.
 
So stealing the scroll means attacking a position that multiple seal masters had literally decades to fortify, let's not try that.
 
Jackercracks said:
Technically speaking, sealing can do anything though some things are certainly easier than others. A fort-unmake seal would be doable, but it would have to be customised to the fort in question. ETA: there is also the possibility of the fort containing seals designed to counter such.

Sealing is most useful when setting traps, and when you've got intel and time. Standard Mist doctrine has this to say on attacking a sealmaster in an area they have prepared, and on giving them time to prepare: Don't.
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Sounds good. Next time we have down-time we should make a portable version of our fort-home, so if we're on the road, we can find a clearing and make a defensible fort when we're away. Also a fort-unmake seal so we can leave no trace (which sounds a lot more dangerous when applied to ninjas than hiking).
Sigil said:
So stealing the scroll means attacking a position that multiple seal masters had literally decades to fortify, let's not try that.
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But the alternative is talking! *whines*
Twofold said:
So the reasons we give them for still being here are 1. We are curious and 2. We like being good neighbors. That seems a bit flimsy and if we were on the other side I don't think we would buy it.

I think we should at least hint at sealcraft co-operation. We almost revealed (or possibly revealed) that we can do it already and I'm pretty sure the sealmasters in the village have plenty of gloat and if they actually care about their craft they should be ecstatic to see how rest of the world does it. Or maybe we should ask Yoshida about their probable reaction to such proposal?
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The explanation we provide is very close to the truth, as far as I can tell, the only real difference between it and the truth is that "curious" includes about the summon scroll, and "good neighbors" includes, if necessary takeover or slaughter neighbors. In terms of being able to get Yoshida to talk about the summon scroll and the town's history, this seems like a good start. If suddenly Yoshida starts being overly nice and explaining everything openly to us, then we'd likely reciprocate. Really, the only things I don't want to reveal to Yoshida are our interest in the summon scroll (unless she clearly would be fine with it), and our passing fancy of conquering the village. I figure she's likely to read between the lines of "curious about the village" and some of our actions, and may be able to infer we're after the summon scroll. I'm hoping that this method of discussion will prompt her to talk about the village's history and the summon scroll so we can know more about the general situation and where she, specifically, stands on it, preferably without having committed one way or the other on what we want with it. I'm not sure about sealcraft co-operation. To me, it's the sort of thing we'd be willing to cooperate with them on, but aren't likely to bring up in the first place.

One of the big problems is that Yoshida hasn't actually given us that much reason to trust her on anything yet. She's clearly someone with weight in the village, but that doesn't directly matter to us (yet), and her actions haven't really revealed anything about where she stands. If we determine we can trust her, then we can go a lot further. Hopefully the specifics I mentioned give us enough information that Inoue can make a good judgement of if we should trust her or not, and then from there can proceed to use her for something else. If we can't trust her, just try and make negotiations to lower tensions, if we can trust her, also include stuff about summon scrolls and stuff. This is one of the reasons to have more priority based action plans than actual actions, because right now, we can't really accurately predict that much into the future, but we can state our priorities and contingencies so that if they are needed they are used.

Velorien said:
I don't have an immediate answer to this. On the one hand, from a purely practical perspective, I am only going to write so many scenes per update, and only so many things happening per scene, and some of the things I write will not be directly related to your plan (like a sudden ninja tapir attack). So the fewer items there are on that plan the more likely you are to see them happen. On the other hand, I understand your desire to cover all the bases and be prepared for every contingency, since, y'know, ninja.

I'd be happy to experiment wtih different formats, like the one @RedV suggests, and see what works best. The thing that comes to mind first is that I think it would be better to limit the number of per-update actions, and have more of the information framed in terms of intent, contingencies, practical details etc. That way I could write a few scenes which are more closely in line with your plan, instead of trying to deal with a checklist which has too many points for me to adequately cover. Action Plan Diplomacy is actually pretty good in this respect.
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Alright, then I'll try to reframe some of the information about the Yoshida conversation in particular to make it more in line with contingencies and practical details/suggestions (later today/tonight).
 
Action plan updated. Hopefully it's in a better format for writing, though, it's also kinda longer now..... also added some contingencies and offered sealing cooperation in our "ways we could help each other"

Radvic said:
Edit: 5/3/16, 1200 PST: broke up practical actions into two lists (things we do to achieve goals and reactions). cleaned up some wording, clarified that we don't want to share our names, clarified what of our history we tell, added a couple contingencies (if they don't actually care about summon seal, they recognize we know about it, they sneak near or attack our fort, they request us to leave our fort, paranoid dispelling). Added offering of sealing cooperation if they want it.

[X] Action Plan: Diplomacy!
This plan is composed of four lists. The first list is our overall, actual goals for our interactions with the village. The second list is the goals for the conversation with Yoshida. The third list is practical actions we can/want to take to achieve our above stated goals. The fourth list is contingencies we have prepared in case things happen.

End Village Goals (in order of priority):
  1. Find out more about the summon scroll --> acquire it or make a contract if they have it
  2. Have the village willing to shelter us in the future, without hostility
  3. Have the village willing to do missions with or for us
  4. Have someone in the village like us enough (and us them) for us to gain another recruit to our missing-nin team
  5. Have a say in the overarching strategic decisions they make (while not needing to actually stay with them)
Yoshida conversational goals (in order of priority):
  1. Determine the village's political situation --> who is for us, who against us, and why for each
  2. Village history --> how did this village get founded? What's up with the Tapirs? Why so isolationist?
  3. Hide information about ourselves --> specifically, disguise our interest in the summon scroll until we're reasonably certain Yoshida won't care about it. Be willing to offer our true names if it will help towards one of the other five goals.
  4. Detente between us and the village --> we'd prefer not to be further from open combat with them.
  5. Summon Scroll information --> what do they know about it?
Specifics potential actions (to achieve above goals):
  • Attempt a serious, rational tone for our conversation, listen to what Yoshida has to say.
  • Begin by demanding to know what will happen to Kouta, in detail.
    • Use this as an in to find out more about how internal politics in VHitM works
    • We have one traditional response to people who backstab us, and it's worse than broken shoulders (explain what happened to the last person who hurt Akane if it seems like it would help) --> impress that crossing us brings consequences, even if we didn't mind when their initial response was "try to kill us" --> now they should know better.
  • Ask what she meant by "keeping the other elders calm"
    • Find out about the village's hierarchy, who likes us, who dislikes us, what their reasons are
    • Find out things she thinks we could do which would help calm down the others
  • Explain that we are trying to offer the village a mutually beneficial arrangement
    • We've been trying to demonstrate some of the ways we could help them during our stay here --> medical ninjutsu, logistics, diverse taijutsu training, outside information, sealing collaboration etc.
    • To begin, we'd be willing to exchange histories with Yoshida (see contingencies for if they agree).
    • Ultimately, at the very least, we want a friendly relationship with our neighbors, preferably one which benefits us each more than just being isolated would.
  • Ask Yoshida how she thinks we could lower tensions between us and the village --> what we've been trying to do for a few days now.
Contingencies (for reactions to events in line with our above priorities):
  • If called on summon scroll without knowing anything about Yoshida or the village's stance, say we heard a rumor but don't extrapolate until we know more
  • If it becomes clear that Yoshida does not care overly much for the summon seal, reveal our interest and seal expertise.
  • If Yoshida is willing to have a basic exchange of histories, give the following:
    • Explain that we left Mist when the village sent us on a suicide mission, recently been to a couple other countries (Fire and Iron), moved nearby looking for peace, quiet, and stability. We were traveling back from Tonaki in an attempt to learn more about the region (especially its history), and stumbled across the Village Hidden in the Mountains, which intrigued us, so we wanted to find out more. Could they explain their history?
    • Ultimately, we want a friendly relationship with our neighbors, preferably one which benefits both of us more than us just being isolated would. It was clear from our first contact that you were a ninja village, we wanted friendly relations.
  • If pressed about the fake names, shrug and say it'd probably be safer for them if they didn't know our real names.
  • If something requires us meeting someone outside of our mini-fort, then they should wait a few days until Akane is back on her feet.
  • Keep an eye out for people doing sneaky things near our fort. Stinking ninja stinkers. First response non-lethal (if there's an alternative and it's clearly not an attack), second response lethal.
  • Have somebody quietly dispelling. Because ninjas.
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[X] Action Plan: Diplomacy!

Originally I was in favor of full disclosure but I guess it's more prudent to move slower and put it behind conditionals.

The worst thing about this plan is its name. I could swear I was voting for a plan called "Diplomacy" just few updates ago.
 
Twofold said:
[X] Action Plan: Diplomacy!

Originally I was in favor of full disclosure but I guess it's more prudent to move slower and put it behind conditionals.

The worst thing about this plan is its name. I could swear I was voting for a plan called "Diplomacy" just few updates ago.
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If this plan is anywhere close to as effective as the last time we tried diplomacy (Story 20), I think we'll all be happy.
 
Radvic said:
If this plan is anywhere close to as effective as the last time we tried diplomacy (Story 20), I think we'll all be happy.
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Don't remind me about that vote, I'm still salty about it. Thank Jashin-sama we have Akane with us now, she should curb the sort of unyouthfulness and the abject cowardice we demonstrated in that vote.
 
Twofold said:
Don't remind me about that vote, I'm still salty about it. Thank Jashin-sama we have Akane with us now, she should curb the sort of unyouthfulness and the abject cowardice we demonstrated in that vote.
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Hey, Inoue herself called that an excellent judgement call, even though the decisions that led up to that situation could only be the result of a "three-way spontaneous brain death". We managed to get out of that situation with 24,000 yen without having to kill other child soldiers. It was almost literally the optimal outcome, and one we should attempt to repeat if possible.
 
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