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I am aware that people have great plans for the village and all, but the way that Yoshida Tsukiko is talking about the village council as if we should desperately want to keep on their good side is really ringing some warning bells. I'm reading 'entitled snots are typical' from that.

Perfectly willing to hear Tsukiko out, but I suspect she's going to try to sell us an utterly crap 'bargain' and expect us to be grateful, and we'll end up deciding to just steal the damn scroll and light half the village on fire as a distraction to get out.
I mean, one option is to go to the village elders with a ton of explosive seals and play the high risk game of "who dies first" -- or just figure out who they are, make nice enough with them and the village that we don't have a permanent watch, then go explode their houses, or poison them, or something else like that. I have no idea if Tsukiko is playing this straight (there's disagreement in the leadership), or outright trying to play us (she's been selected to be the good cop), or some combination of the two (because politics). I figure there's two reasons that the village elders don't want us: first, they're isolationist and don't know what to do with us, and second they don't know what we want. I feel like there is little more concerning than a clearly powerful group or party just choosing to hang out around you hidden village without ever declaring their intent. Tsukiko is our first "official" impression chance (though we clearly didn't initiate contact). It's possible that claiming we're looking for the summon scroll will put this to rest, as they'll have an explanation for why we're here. The problem is that if they have some reason to try to prevent us from getting the summon scroll, then we definitely don't want to tell them that. From what we've seen thus far, I don't feel like we really have enough evidence to determine their motives at all.

ETA:
So far, Hazō had fought fifteen genin (and beaten eleven), eight chūnin (and beaten two) and three jōnin (for a sum total of seven seconds). He wasn't sure how much of the village that made now, only that he was getting really, really tired.
This is from when we had 8 Taijutsu. The combat level of Kouta was right around Chunnin ability (based on what a chunnin rolled in The Liberator arc).
 
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Man, the powerlevels of this village just keep jumping up and down. I was pretty convinced that they really were isolationist due to their poor performance but I'm starting to doubt that. I mean, they must be fighting something if even the village bully can get to 12 dice.

I was pretty convinced that 10 dice was already pretty high for a combat skill and that most ninjas never make it that far. With this and the new mass combat rules I feel like we need to adjust our base Taijutsu goal upwards. We will probably want to get MEW higher than 10 too if we want to use it in combat.

Yeah it's super confusing. That bully just matched the Taijutsu score of the entire strike team pre-rule-change.
 
Yeah it's super confusing. That bully just matched the Taijutsu score of the entire strike team pre-rule-change.

...

Maybe he wasn't just an ordinary bully? What if some parts of the village are trying to instigate a confrontation behind the others back? The bully could've been their crack Taijutsu guy with clear mission parameters to "start a fight".
 
...

Maybe he wasn't just an ordinary bully? What if some parts of the village are trying to instigate a confrontation behind the others back? The bully could've been their crack Taijutsu guy with clear mission parameters to "start a fight".

He'd have to have beaten Inoue's awareness with a deception check on that though, or his 'anger' would have been suspicious or something right?
 
Well, it's not like I expect them to try to kill us for using a fake name. Concerns are that if someone tries to track our movements, this village will definitely remember us. We don't know who's going to be retroactively looking for us, and if the village can give them our names, that's bad. Also, while they suspect us of using false names, having confirmation of it will hurt our diplomatic standing -- it gives them another reason to distrust us.
If our concerns are someone tracking us via the ninja village that we are the first outsiders to visit in generations we're clearly doing something right.

More importantly is the seal. Summons are intelligent and they seem to be content here. Are they going to be willing to work with us if we steal the scroll?
 
Yeah it's super confusing. That bully just matched the Taijutsu score of the entire strike team pre-rule-change.
...

Maybe he wasn't just an ordinary bully? What if some parts of the village are trying to instigate a confrontation behind the others back? The bully could've been their crack Taijutsu guy with clear mission parameters to "start a fight".
Yes. This makes me reluctantly increase my estimation that there's some weird improbable conspiracy that's been going on from the start. Also increases my estimation that Kouta is not a normal person. Maybe Kouta is like their equivalent of Sasuke? Some stuck-up protegy that we just disabled for life?

I find it HIGHLY improbable that this is a normal genin-level combatant, because man those are some high rolls. If he'd been boosting with a team backing him he probably could have beat Inoue (even with the old rules).

Important things to note: one comment on Kouta before we did anything was in how the villagers didn't care to support him. On their roll it says
"Crowd, emotional state and opinion of challenger:
?d100 => 88"
Which suggests he's not at all popular. Then there's this gem right after Akane critical successes against him:
. The other children laughed, and a few of the adults flashed very brief smiles of satisfaction before quickly schooling their faces. The tapirs growled and leaned forward, but a word from one of the adult ninja had them lying down quietly.

My current estimation: there's some tension between groups, Kouta might be some entitled heir who gets special training and rubs it in other people's faces. Likely has political sway.
 
I was thinking you'd go back and edit the inconsistent bits; they didn't feel like they added anything useful to me.
I appreciate where you're coming from, and am very grateful for the specific feedback, but I don't like this idea. Partly because I hate going back and editing something that people have clear memories of and probably won't re-read, and which continues to inform their understanding of how things are (if you've read HPMOR, I hated the fact that the author did that with the phoenix scene). Partly, the characters thereafter were written based on that understanding - changing it would make all the subsequent updates inconsistent.
 
He'd have to have beaten Inoue's awareness with a deception check on that though, or his 'anger' would have been suspicious or something right?

Deception is rolled against Deception. It was rolled against Awareness in the beginning but QMs changed that because Awareness started to look too OP. It's part of the reason I like leveling Deception, not all assassins will hide in the bushes.

The bully might have actually been angry or he wasn't given a mission but rather manipulated to start the confrontation. If that's the case I don't think it would ping on Inoue's (or Hazou's) Deception.
 
Deception is rolled against Deception. It was rolled against Awareness in the beginning but QMs changed that because Awareness started to look too OP. It's part of the reason I like leveling Deception, not all assassins will hide in the bushes.

The bully might have actually been angry or he wasn't given a mission but rather manipulated to start the confrontation. If that's the case I don't think it would ping on Inoue's (or Hazou's) Deception.
I that this is just a bully who has some privilege which includes top-notch (for this village) Taijutsu training, he thought he could beat up on us, Akane played with him and he lost his cool. But I suspect we can find out more from Yoshida. It should probably be first on our agenda of things to talk with her about. I think this slightly more because Eaglejarl rated the post I made suggesting that insightful (though, to be fair, there were, like, 10 different things I talked about in that post, and I can kinda see Eaglejarl purposefully rating wrong theories as insightful and laughing :p )

If our concerns are someone tracking us via the ninja village that we are the first outsiders to visit in generations we're clearly doing something right.

More importantly is the seal. Summons are intelligent and they seem to be content here. Are they going to be willing to work with us if we steal the scroll?
If Tapirs are the summons. I don't think we gained too much evidence either way for Tapirs being the summons. It's also worth noting that the villagers might not think that summons are odd, and so wouldn't think to hide them from random people they met because they are common practice. There are a lot of things that don't quite add up in this village. If we get past the whole "we're all about to kill each other" part of this relationship, we should have a lot of interesting lore to find out about.
 
We need to drill into Akane the stupidity of prolonging a fight like that especially against someone who is close to your level. Watching her keep rolling again and again when she was barely winning was painfull.
 
I recall that the uzumaki clan all had the same sealing language. So they could all build on each others work. Of course that might be fandom. Anyone around here have red hair?
 
I wasn't a reader at the time that chapter was published, so could you tell me what he did with it? I personally loved the phoenix scene.
Here you go:

Original said:
Thoughts came to Harry's mind, then, elements of the vast stored wisdom and the thousand other lives that lay within his parents' science fiction collection. There might be other reasons why Harry sometimes seemed older than his physical age, but all those fictional lives he'd lived had probably also played a role. Harry might not be able to remember the exact words, like Hermione could, but he remembered the sense.

In the mirrors of the many judgments, my hands are the color of blood. I sometimes fancy myself an evil which exists to oppose other evils; and on that great Day of which the prophets speak but in which they do not truly believe, on the day the world is utterly cleansed of evil, then I too will go down into darkness, swallowing curses. Until then, I will not wash my hands nor let them hang useless.

Corwin of Amber.

There will always be some that cannot be saved.

If I must sacrifice five hundred to save one thousand -

Then I will abandon one hundred and earn nine hundred.

But still -

I believed someone would be a superhero if they saved everyone even though they thought like that.

It might be an idealistic concept or an impossible pipe dream, but a superhero is someone who tries to save everyone in spite of that.


Emiya Shirou.

No words can prevent all killing. Words are not iron bands. But I taught you to hesitate, to stay your hands until the weight of duty crushed them down.

Anansi the Spider.

Harry took in a breath of the cold night air, and said, quietly into the night, "All right."

Slowly - he'd probably been lying there, looking at the stars, for longer than he'd thought - Harry sat up from the ground. Pushing himself to his feet, the muscles protesting, he walked over to the edge of the stone platform at the height of the Ravenclaw tower. The stone crenellations surrounding the edge of the tower weren't high, not anywhere near high enough to be safe; they were there more as a marker, clearly, than as a railing. Harry didn't approach too close to the edge; there was no point in taking chances. Looking down at the Hogwarts grounds below, he was predictably feeling a sense of dizziness, the wobbly affliction called vertigo. His brain was alarmed, of course, because the ground below was so distant. It might have been fully 50 meters away.

I will make a bargain with myself, Harry said to within himself, to all his parts. I will follow the path of the superhero as far as I can. But if I can't - if anyone dies, not just an Important Character like Hermione or Professor McGonagall but a single nameless innocent bystander who catches a Cutting Curse - then the gloves come off and the villains die as fast as possible; and I won't pretend that real people in real life can go through a war without sacrificing anyone...

...if I fail.

I'll try as hard as I can to save everyone, but if I fail, I'll admit it didn't work, and change policies. Does that satisfy us?


It didn't, really; it didn't satisfy any part of him; Slytherin who was afraid they would lose the war trying to act like a superhero even once, Gryffindor who wanted more than one try.

But all Harry's parts understood that compromises had to be made, and that this was the best compromise they were collectively likely to get; and besides, in the end, Harry himself had the final word.

Turning resolutely upon his heel, the boy strode back toward the gap in the rooftop that was the stairway leading down into the Ravenclaw tower. In the end...

...in the end, he did still have homework due tomorrow.

Changed said:

Slowly - he'd been lying there, looking at the stars, for longer than he'd planned - Harry sat up from the ground. Pushing himself to his feet, the muscles protesting, he walked over to the edge of the stone platform at the height of the Ravenclaw tower. The stone crenellations surrounding the edge of the tower weren't high, not high enough to be safe. They were markers, clearly, rather than railings. Harry didn't approach too close to the edge; there was no point in taking chances. Looking down at the Hogwarts grounds below, he was predictably feeling a sense of dizziness, the wobbly affliction called vertigo. His brain was alarmed, it seemed, because the ground below was so distant. It might have been fully 50 meters away.

The lesson, it seemed, was that things had to be incredibly close by before your brain could comprehend them well enough to feel fear.

It was a rare brain that could feel strongly about anything, if it wasn't close in space, close in time, near at hand, within easy reach...

Before, Harry had imagined that going to Azkaban would require planning and cooperation from a grownup confederate. Portkeys, broomsticks, invisibility spells. Some way of getting to the bottom levels without the Aurors noticing, so he could carve his way into the central pit where the shadows of Death waited.

And that had been enough to put the prospect away, into the future, safely apart from the now.

He hadn't realized until today that it might be as simple as finding Fawkes and telling the phoenix that it was time.

Memories were rising up again, memories that Harry could never manage to forget for long. Though the stones beneath his feet were not smooth like metal, though the moonlit sky stretched all around him, somehow it was very easy to imagine himself trapped in a long metal corridor lit by dim orange light.

The night was quiet, quiet enough for memories to be clearly audible.

No, I didn't mean it, please don't die!

No, I didn't mean it, please don't die!

Don't take it away, don't don't don't -


The world blurred, and Harry wiped his eyes with his sleeve.

If Hermione had been the one behind that door -

If Hermione had been put in Azkaban, Harry would have called the phoenix and gone there and burned away every last Dementor and it wouldn't have made a single difference how crazy it was or what else he'd wanted to do with his life. That was just - that was - that was just how it was.

And the woman who was behind that door - wasn't there someone, somewhere, to whom she too was precious? Wasn't it only Harry's distance from her life that was preventing his brain from being driven to Azkaban to save her no matter what? What would it have taken to compel him? Would he have needed to know her face? Her name? Her favorite color? Would he have been driven to Azkaban to save Tracey Davis? Would he have been compelled there to save Professor McGonagall? Mum and Dad - there wasn't even any question. And that woman had said she was someone's mother. How many people had wished for the power to break Azkaban? How many prisoners of Azkaban dreamed nightly of such a miraculous rescue?

None. It's a happy thought.

Maybe he should harrow Azkaban. All he had to do was find Fawkes and tell him it was time. Visualize the center of the Dementor's pit as he'd seen it from the broomstick, and let the phoenix take him there. Cast the True Patronus Charm at point-blank range and to hell with what came after.

All he had to do was go find Fawkes.

It might be as simple as thinking of the flame, calling for the fire-bird in his heart -

A star flashed in the night.

By the time Harry's eyes had jumped with a reflex action trained on meteor showers, another part of him was surprised that the astronomical phenomenon was still there; a faint star whose brightness was slowly visibly waxing. There was a startled moment when Harry wondered whether he was seeing, not a meteor, but a nova or supernova - could you see them getting brighter like that? Was the first stage of a nova supposed to be that yellow-orange color?

Then the new star moved again, and seemed to grow as well as brightening. It looked closer suddenly, no longer so far away that distance became moot. Like what you thought was a star, turning out to be an airplane, a lighted form whose shape you could actually see...

...no, not a plane...

The realization seemed to spread out from Harry's chest in a wave of prickling, sweat preparing to break out.

...a bird.

A piercing cry split the night, echoing from the rooftops of Hogwarts.

The approaching creature trailed fire as it flew, shedding golden flames like sparks from its feathers as the mighty wings beat and beat again. Even as it swooped up in a great curve to hover a few paces away from Harry, even as the flames surrounding its passage diminished, the creature seemed no dimmer, no less bright; as though some unseen Sun shone upon it and illuminated it.

Great shining wings red like a sunset, and eyes like incandescent pearls, blazing with golden fire and determination.

The phoenix's beak opened, and let out a great caw that Harry understood as though it had been a spoken word:

COME!

Not even realizing, the boy stumbled back from the edge of the rooftop, eyes still locked on the phoenix, his whole body trembling and tensed, his fists clutching and releasing at his side; stepping back, stepping away.

The phoenix cawed again, a desperate, pleading, sound. It didn't come through in words, this time, but it came through in feelings, an echo of everything that Harry had ever felt about Azkaban and every temptation to action, to just do something about it, the desperate need to do something now and not delay any longer, all spoken in the cry of a bird.

Let's go. It's time. The voice that spoke came from inside Harry, not from the phoenix; from so deep inside it couldn't be given a separate name like 'Gryffindor'.

All he had to do was step forward and touch the phoenix's talons, and it would take him where he needed to be, where he kept thinking he ought to be, down into the central pit of Azkaban. Harry could see the image in his mind, shining with unbearable clarity, the image of himself suddenly smiling with joyous release as he threw all his fears away and chose -

"But I -" Harry whispered, not even aware of what he was saying. Harry lifted his shaking hands to wipe at his eyes from which tears had sprung, as the phoenix hovered before him with great wing-sweeps. "But I - there's other people I also have to save, other things I have to do -"

The fire-bird let out a piercing scream, and the boy flinched back as though from a blow. It wasn't a command, it wasn't an objection, it was the knowledge -

The corridors lit by dim orange light.

It felt like a tightening compulsion in Harry's chest, the desire to just do it and get it over with. He might die, but if he didn't die he could feel clean again. Have principles that were more than excuses for inaction. It was his life. His to spend, if he chose. He could do it any time he wanted...

...if he wasn't a good person.

The boy stood there on the rooftop, his own eyes locked with two points of fire. The stars might have had time to shift in their constellations while he stood there, agonizing over the decision...

...that wouldn't...

...change.

The boy's eyes flickered once to the stars above; and then he looked at the phoenix.

"Not yet," the boy said in a voice hardly audible. "Not yet. There's too much else I have to do. Please come back later, when I've found others who can cast the True Patronus - in six months, maybe -"

Without word, without sound, a sphere of fire surrounded the bird's form, crackling and blazing with white and crimson veins as though it meant to consume that which lay within; and when the fire dispersed into grey smoke, no phoenix remained.

There was silence on the top of the Ravenclaw tower. The boy gradually lowered his hands from his ears, pausing only to wipe at his wet cheeks.

Slowly, the boy turned -

Then cried out and leapt back and almost fell off the Ravenclaw tower; though the misstep would hardly have mattered, with that other wizard standing there.

"And so it was done," Albus Dumbledore said, almost in a whisper. "So it was done." Fawkes was on his shoulder, staring at where the other phoenix had been with an indecipherable avian gaze.

"What are you doing here? "

"Ah?" said the ancient man standing on the roof-platform's opposite corner. "I felt the presence of a creature Hogwarts did not know, and came to see, of course." Slowly the old wizard's shaking hand came up to remove the half-moon glasses, his other hand wiped at his eyes and forehead with his robe's sleeve. "I dared - I dared not speak - I knew, I knew this choice above all choices must be your own -"

A strange apprehension was beginning to fill Harry, welling up in him like a sick feeling in his stomach.

"That everything depended on this," Albus Dumbledore said, still in that almost-whisper, "that much I knew. But which choice led into darkness, that I could not guess. At least the choice was your own."

"I don't -" Harry said, and then his voice stopped.

A terrible hypothesis, rising in credibility...

"The phoenix comes," said the old wizard. "To those who would fight, to those would act even at cost of their lives, the phoenix comes. Phoenixes are not wise, Harry, they know no means to judge us, save witnessing the choice. I thought it was to my death I went, when the phoenix took me to fight Grindelwald. I did not know that Fawkes would sustain me, and heal me, and stay by my side -" The old wizard's voice quavered, for a moment. "It is not spoken of - you should realize, Harry, why it is never spoken of - if the one knew, the phoenix could not judge. But to you, Harry, I may say it now, for the phoenix comes only once."

The old wizard walked across the top of the Ravenclaw tower to where a boy stood rooted in dawning horror, in dawning and utter horror.

In my duel with Grindelwald I could not win, only fight him for long hours until he collapsed in exhaustion; and I would have died of it afterward, if not for Fawkes -

Harry didn't even know he was speaking, until the whisper had escaped him -

"Then I could have -"

"Could you have?" said the ancient wizard, his voice sounding far older than his normal tones. "Three times, now, a phoenix has come for my student. One did send hers away, and the grief of it broke her, I think. And the last was cousin to your young friend Lavender Brown, and he -" The old wizard's voice cracked. "He did not return, did poor John, and he saved none of those he meant to save. It is said, among the few scholars of phoenix-lore, that not one in four returns from their ordeal. And even if you did survive - for the life you must lead, Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres - the choices you must make and the path you must walk - to always hear the phoenix's cries - who is to say it would not have driven you mad?" The old wizard raised his sleeve again, drawing it once more across his face. "I had more joy of Fawkes's companionship, in the days before I fought Voldemort."

The boy did not seem to be listening, all his eyes were on the red-gold bird on the ancient wizard's shoulder. "Fawkes?" the boy said in shaking voice. "Why won't you look at me, Fawkes?"

Fawkes craned his head to peer at the boy curiously, then turned back and resumed gazing at his master.

"See?" said the old wizard. "He does not reject you. Fawkes may not be interested in you in quite that way, now; and he knows -" the wizard smiled wryly, "- that you are not exactly loyal to his master. But one to whom the phoenix comes at all - cannot be one whom a phoenix would dislike." The wizard's voice fell to a whisper again. "There never was a bird seen on Godric Gryffindor's shoulder. Though it is not written even in his secrets, I think he must have sent his phoenix away, before he chose the red and gold for his colors. Perhaps the guilt of it urged him to greater lengths than he ever would have dared otherwise. Or it might have taught him humility, and respect for human frailty, and failure..." The wizard bowed his head. "I truly do not know if your choice was wise. I truly do not know if it was the right thing, or the wrong thing. If I knew, Harry, I would have spoken. But I -" Dumbledore's voice broke, then. "I am nothing but a foolish young boy who has become a foolish old man, and I have no wisdom."

Harry couldn't breathe, the nausea seeming to fill and overflow his whole body, stomach locked solid. He was suddenly and terribly certain that he had failed, in some final sense failed, failed this very night -

The boy whirled and ran out to the curb of the Ravenclaw rooftop. "Come back!" His voice cracked, rising to a shriek. "Come back! "
Now imagine having that first version in your memory, and knowing that Harry has had these experiences, and thinks like this, and has made this important decision... and then having all that ripped away and replaced with something completely different. And then you have to keep reminding yourself thereafter that actually, no, this is canon now, and this is what you are meant to remember whenever you think of Harry's past experiences and motivatinos and decisions, and that the way you interpreted any further scenes based on the old version is now retroactively wrong.

To me, retconning a major scene to this extent (or inserting a major scene, depending on how you want to intepret the edit) is like having a character killed and replaced with a version that is only mostly the same. I would not do it in my own work unless I'd done something really stupid in the original.

I have strong feelings about such things.

(which is not to say that the new version of the scene isn't a good scene on its own terms)

Edit:

I recall that the uzumaki clan all had the same sealing language. So they could all build on each others work. Of course that might be fandom. Anyone around here have red hair?
Fanon, sorry. We know next to nothing about the Uzumaki in canon.
 
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It is possible that this Yoshida is just playing good cop and trying to fish out information from us. It is even possible that she helped to orchestrate the sparring incident, but I think we need to make a leap of faith here.

If we don't start negotiating in good faith here, I don't think we will ever get access to the scroll peacefully.

I would just tell Yoshida that we want the scroll. If she is in the camp that actually cares about the whole village instead of the scroll I think she will be open to dialogue.

If she is some sort of a scroll fanatic or she derives her authority from the scroll somehow (divine mandate or something like that) this will be a bad move.

I'm not really sure how we could suss out her camp without lying our eyes out and that would just poison any further negotiations.

Here's a start of a plan. I don't think we can effectively plan beyond this discussion, there's just too much information to be gained here for us to make longer plans.

Initial Negotiation Strategy:

Confront Yoshida about the life in the village. We noticed that many of the ninja are malnourished. Is life really that rosy in the wonderland that is the Village Hidden in the Mountain?

We have noticed social tension inside the village. The Snot Guy didn't seem to be very popular. Would it be a fair guess that not everyone is happy with the current status quo?

Tell her about our quest, given by a wise sage, to find the summoning scroll and save the world from a coming war.

Impress on her that we are not thieves and want to come to a mutually beneficial agreement about the scroll. We would like to help the village with our skills and contacts in exchange for an access to the scroll.

The sparring incident was unfortunate and we need to deal with it, but we are pretty sure we can move past it and focus on more important matters.
 
Thought: we could probably spin this into a "culture shock" thing. Right now the elder woman thinks Mari went completely off the deep end into unreasonable force.
We can flip that on its head.
We can say that Mari was being unbelievably merciful because in all other hidden villages pulling a stunt like Kouta's would earn immediate summary execution.

They owe us for sparing this little shit's life.

We own them now, and we aren't going to let them forget it.
 
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