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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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faflec said:
Or we could just reroll and spend our next life lighthousing and getting bonus XP due to not needing overly complicated plans.
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Hm, what's the max xp for plan shortness? If feasible, let's become a shut-in, arrange for jirayia to feed us etc, then for a year have plans that are literally 'eat food Jiraya gives us, sleep, meditate on power', cash in max plan exp, become S-rank in a couple months?

To save the QMs time on writing chapters describing what all other people are doing, we can arrange this to become a timeskip; let's say two days per plan average, 5 exp bonus, lets timeskip a year for 900 bonus exp (and 3/day standard exp)?
 
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Anderkent said:
Hm, what's the max xp for plan shortness? If feasible, let's become a shut-in, arrange for jirayia to feed us etc, then for a year have plans that are literally 'eat food Jiraya gives us, sleep, meditate on power', cash in max plan exp, become S-rank in a couple months?

To save the QMs time on writing chapters describing what all other people are doing, we can arrange this to become a timeskip; let's say two days per plan average, 5 exp bonus, lets timeskip a year for 900 bonus exp (and 3/day standard exp)?
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It maxes at +1 unfortunately
 
Immortal Lurker said:
I get the urge, I feel it too. But thinking back on the disasters that I remember, they were never caused by misinterpretation. They were caused by the hivemind forgetting important details. Details like: Thats a secret, don't let that person in on the secret. Or "We are technically hostile operatives that lots of people in the village hate, don't seem threatening under any circumstances."
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I don't want to bog us down in relitigating the past or anything. I did happen to go back and read the killbox plan recently and it sort of read 'we'd go pretty far to protect our friend if it turned out your guy is a traitor' as 'let's threaten the doctor and kinda disregard the qualifier'. This was probably motivated by a desire to faithfully play out Hazou's foot in mouth character trait.

I doubt the QMs would do something like that now. I think feedback over time has helped them get a better grasp how to implement plans and the sorts of things that will surprise and upset the playerbase because they didn't intend for Hazou to act that way. In particular I think backing off on the foot in mouth syndrome thing will be a big positive for building the kind of trust needed so that the players don't feel like we need to be super detailed to not omit anything and get screwed by the omission or give the wrong impression and have Hazou do something clearly dumb as a result. It was a good idea for building a character but it led to real problems in a forum quest environment where it's difficult to ask what the players meant. It'd work better at a game table.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
I don't want to bog us down in relitigating the past or anything. I did happen to go back and read the killbox plan recently and it sort of read 'we'd go pretty far to protect our friend if it turned out your guy is a traitor' as 'let's threaten the doctor and kinda disregard the qualifier'. This was probably motivated by a desire to faithfully play out Hazou's foot in mouth character trait.

I doubt the QMs would do something like that now. I think feedback over time has helped them get a better grasp how to implement plans and the sorts of things that will surprise and upset the playerbase because they didn't intend for Hazou to act that way. In particular I think backing off on the foot in mouth syndrome thing will be a big positive for building the kind of trust needed so that the players don't feel like we need to be super detailed to not omit anything and get screwed by the omission or give the wrong impression and have Hazou do something clearly dumb as a result. It was a good idea for building a character but it led to real problems in a forum quest environment where it's difficult to ask what the players meant. It'd work better at a game table.
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Um... Hazou didn't really have that character trait, as such, at that point.
 
I actually want Hazou to read the ANBU OPSEC/INFOSEC manual. Or whatever equivalent.

TaliesinSkye said:
I don't want to bog us down in relitigating the past or anything. I did happen to go back and read the killbox plan recently and it sort of read 'we'd go pretty far to protect our friend if it turned out your guy is a traitor' as 'let's threaten the doctor and kinda disregard the qualifier'. This was probably motivated by a desire to faithfully play out Hazou's foot in mouth character trait.

I doubt the QMs would do something like that now. I think feedback over time has helped them get a better grasp how to implement plans and the sorts of things that will surprise and upset the playerbase because they didn't intend for Hazou to act that way. In particular I think backing off on the foot in mouth syndrome thing will be a big positive for building the kind of trust needed so that the players don't feel like we need to be super detailed to not omit anything and get screwed by the omission or give the wrong impression and have Hazou do something clearly dumb as a result. It was a good idea for building a character but it led to real problems in a forum quest environment where it's difficult to ask what the players meant. It'd work better at a game table.
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Unfortunately this character trait was the result of many similar tiny mistakes on the Hiveminds part, and wasnt fullllly formed at that point.
 
MMKII said:
I actually want Hazou to read the ANBU OPSEC/INFOSEC manual. Or whatever equivalent.


Unfortunately this character trait was the result of many similar tiny mistakes on the Hiveminds part, and wasnt fullllly formed at that point.
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Ah, thanks. Perhaps it was a mistake or there was some other motivation.

I doubt the ANBU manual is unclassified, but there's probably something for general leaf ninja consumption, or maybe some sort of guide for new people working in the intelligence department.
 
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What if every time we reroll, the dying PC gets trapped inside a Lovecraftian horror that offers suggestions and temptations to the next character in line?

Said horror spends an inordinate amount of time brainstorming ways to make its avatars wear spandex and date everything under the sun. Hazou is terrified, but this revelation explains so much.
 
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Cariyaga said:
Fine, we'll settle for being a Yamanaka missing-nin, since apparently (see: Akane) Leaf missing-nin aren't unheard of. :p
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I still am mulling over the headcanon that Akane was a plant the whole time, since there's no fucking way a recently-graduated Academy student would have the skills necessary to evade Leaf hunter-nin.
 
faflec said:
I still am mulling over the headcanon that Akane was a plant the whole time, since there's no fucking way a recently-graduated Academy student would have the skills necessary to evade Leaf hunter-nin.
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She doesn't have to be. She's a clanless nobody, they have no real reason to pursue her too hard.
 
Cariyaga said:
She doesn't have to be. She's a clanless nobody, they have no real reason to pursue her too hard.
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eaglejarl said:
In Mist, the first year of ninja school is set up to wash out anyone who isn't going to be able to cut it. It's the non-secret stuff -- physical conditioning, basic taijutsu, very basic weapons, obedience to orders, self-discipline, verifying you have sufficient chakra capacity and control, etc. People who wash out in the first year are basically civilians with some military training -- they can win most barfights, they know some basics about
wilderness survival, and etc but they aren't a danger to their village and no special restrictions are placed on them.

If you wash out AFTER your first year, things are very different. At that point you've started getting special diets, learning real secrets / important things, etc.
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Not saying Mist has the same training as Leaf, but...
 
TaliesinSkye said:
I'm kind of worried about making plans even shorter for bonus XP than they already are, because of the risk of something tersely worded being misinterpreted in a way that we wouldn't want if the resulting text were given to us ahead of time and that resulting in consequences ranging from the inconvenient (like the 'wait Kagome didn't know we were giving Jiraiya the seals he taught us?') to the disastrous. (Like the killbox incident.)
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300 words is more than enough so long as you maintain focus. Stick to 1-3 scenes and you're fine. Spread your wordcount out over nine scenes and you're not.

TaliesinSkye said:
I doubt the QMs would do something like that now. I think feedback over time has helped them get a better grasp how to implement plans and the sorts of things that will surprise and upset the playerbase because they didn't intend for Hazou to act that way.
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We absolutely would do that again.

We don't like having to deal with player salt; it's unpleasant for everyone. That said, all three QMs feel very strongly that the entire point of a rational quest is that bad things can and will happen if the players make mistakes -- exactly the same way that good things happen when y'all make good decisions. Let's review; you invented skywalkers and decided[*] to barter them to Leaf, so:

* The entire political and military balance of the Elemental Nations was upended during the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny -- Hiruzen, Zabuza, Mei, and a major part of the Leaf and Mist jōnin were all killed, Naruto and Yagura were captured. Mist has a toehold on the continent that they previously lacked. Mist and Leaf are growing closer and may well end up as allies, assuming they don't jump straight to stabbing.

* You are now effectively royalty, members of the Hokage's clan and heir presumptive to everything the "world's greatest sealmaster, spymaster, and Sage" knows and has.

* Ninja are going out on Uplift missions (till'n'fills) to help civilians. That entire mission category exists because you talked to Jiraiya about it.

That's just the fallout from one decision. More recently, you utterly destroyed the Chūnin Exams because of good decisions by the players. Everyone with an ounce of sense and knowledge of what happened will recognize that Team Uplift are among the most powerful genin of this generation. You should assume that every chief intelligence officer in the Elemental Nations knows your names and as much of your capabilities as they can tease out of what happened.

So, yes. Incredible things can happen when the players make good decisions. By the same token, equally bad things can happen if y'all make bad decisions. The killbox didn't happen because the QMs misunderstood anything, it happened because the players made a bad call. Now, after that was over there was a mutual (QM+players) decision to give Hazō some agency in order to smooth out places where he would have access to cultural information that y'all don't. That's not the same as him saving you if y'all vote for something unwise. If another plan like the killbox gets voted in, we will absolutely write you getting thrown into the killbox again, and it's unlikely that you'd get a third chance.
 
[Χ] Post-tournament timeskip
  • 1.5 years of training and sealing research.
  • Hazou starts ANBU training.
  • Join ANBU afterwards, take up the codename "Octopus"
Nothing can go wrong.

eaglejarl said:
300 words is more than enough so long as you maintain focus. Stick to 1-3 scenes and you're fine. Spread your wordcount out over nine scenes and you're not.


We absolutely would do that again.

We don't like having to deal with player salt; it's unpleasant for everyone. That said, all three QMs feel very strongly that the entire point of a rational quest is that bad things can and will happen if the players make mistakes -- exactly the same way that good things happen when y'all make good decisions. Let's review; you invented skywalkers and decided[*] to barter them to Leaf, so:

* The entire political and military balance of the Elemental Nations was upended during the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny -- Hiruzen, Zabuza, Mei, and a major part of the Leaf and Mist jōnin were all killed, Naruto and Yagura were captured. Mist has a toehold on the continent that they previously lacked. Mist and Leaf are growing closer and may well end up as allies, assuming they don't jump straight to stabbing.

* You are now effectively royalty, members of the Hokage's clan and heir presumptive to everything the "world's greatest sealmaster, spymaster, and Sage" knows and has.

* Ninja are going out on Uplift missions (till'n'fills) to help civilians. That entire mission category exists because you talked to Jiraiya about it.

That's just the fallout from one decision. More recently, you utterly destroyed the Chūnin Exams because of good decisions by the players. Everyone with an ounce of sense and knowledge of what happened will recognize that Team Uplift are among the most powerful genin of this generation. You should assume that every chief intelligence officer in the Elemental Nations knows your names and as much of your capabilities as they can tease out of what happened.

So, yes. Incredible things can happen when the players make good decisions. By the same token, equally bad things can happen if y'all make bad decisions. The killbox didn't happen because the QMs misunderstood anything, it happened because the players made a bad call. Now, after that was over there was a mutual (QM+players) decision to give Hazō some agency in order to smooth out places where he would have access to cultural information that y'all don't. That's not the same as him saving you if y'all vote for something unwise. If another plan like the killbox gets voted in, we will absolutely write you getting thrown into the killbox again, and it's unlikely that you'd get a third chance.
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Clearly the solution to the Killbox Problem is to make Hazou immune to being killed.
 
The problem is that this hasn't been hammered home by burning through a couple dozen characters. Fortunately, we already have Kei to take over.

[ ] Load up on explosives and go get blackout drunk in the bar closest to the Hyuuga compound.
 
eaglejarl said:
So, yes. Incredible things can happen when the players make good decisions. By the same token, equally bad things can happen if y'all make bad decisions. The killbox didn't happen because the QMs misunderstood anything, it happened because the players made a bad call. Now, after that was over there was a mutual (QM+players) decision to give Hazō some agency in order to smooth out places where he would have access to cultural information that y'all don't. That's not the same as him saving you if y'all vote for something unwise. If another plan like the killbox gets voted in, we will absolutely write you getting thrown into the killbox again, and it's unlikely that you'd get a third chance.
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FMPOV, I am deeply concerned with the very uneven performance thus far, including all the retcons. I am glad that Hazō is improving and growing as a character, and I approve of the word count limit. That should reduce error rate that comes from a very open quest, as I considered an open-end format to be ways for players to shoot themselves in the foot.
 
Kiba said:
FMPOV, I am deeply concerned with the very uneven performance thus far, including all the retcons. I am glad that Hazō is improving and growing as a character, and I approve of the word count limit. That should reduce error rate that comes from a very open quest, as I considered an open-end format to be ways for players to shoot themselves in the foot.
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Uneven performance of what?
 
Kiba said:
Hivemind's decisions.
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IIRC there's only been two or three large mistakes (Killbox, Minami Incident, maybe Youthsuitgate if you thought that was super duper problematic) over the course of 3 years now. That's pretty good for something on the order of 200 plans.
 
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