Remove ads

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Voting is open for the next 2 days, 5 hours
Reader mode
Cariyaga said:
I'm pretty sure that with three months of research we could have the beginnings of proper sealtech blunderbusses.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Can we work on the Actual Earth Wall (Shia LaBeouf!) Seal first?

I trust them to be better at hiding behind large fuck-off granite walls than I trust them to snipe chakra wolves with sealtech weapons.
 
MMKII said:
Can we work on the Actual Earth Wall (Shia LaBeouf!) Seal first?

I trust them to be better at hiding behind large fuck-off granite walls than I trust them to snipe chakra wolves with sealtech weapons.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Do...do we need to?

I'm wondering if we can section off granite walls so that they'd work with our current storage seal capacity...
 
MMKII said:
Can we work on the Actual Earth Wall (Shia LaBeouf!) Seal first?

I trust them to be better at hiding behind large fuck-off granite walls than I trust them to snipe chakra wolves with sealtech weapons.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not talking about for civilian use.

I'm talking about for Hazou's use, in comparison to spending 600-ish XP -- which would take 3 months to earn -- to level a new jutsu to level 40.
 
faflec said:
Do...do we need to?

I'm wondering if we can section off granite walls so that they'd work with our current storage seal capacity...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We could, but they would be extremely thin and brittle, and we would need thousands upon thousands of storage seals.

IIRC this isn't feasible: We did the math when we were doing the retroactive prep for Event 5 Round 2.

Contrast a seal that creates a 10m high, 20m long, 1m thick granite wall in between two seal elements. Now that's cooking with oil!

Cariyaga said:
I'm not talking about for civilian use.

I'm talking about for Hazou's use, in comparison to spending 600-ish XP -- which would take 3 months to earn -- to level a new jutsu to level 40.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We could just create Super Macerators, probably? Hazou can apparently launch granite chunks with decent aim out of macerators as is (this was his counterexample to Jiraiya during the testing of the suit, when J was like "Hmmm that's some friendly fire you got there." )
 
MMKII said:
We could just create Super Macerators, probably? Hazou can apparently launch granite chunks with decent aim out of macerators as is (this was his counterexample to Jiraiya during the testing of the suit, when J was like "Hmmm that's some friendly fire you got there." )
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Is super macerator really within our skillset?
 
MMKII said:
We could just create Super Macerators, probably? Hazou can apparently launch granite chunks with decent aim out of macerators as is (this was his counterexample to Jiraiya during the testing of the suit, when J was like "Hmmm that's some friendly fire you got there." )
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes, that's the idea.
faflec said:
Do...do we need to?

I'm wondering if we can section off granite walls so that they'd work with our current storage seal capacity...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And, as always, storage seals solve all problems. Because they can also be explosives.
 
Adept_Woodwright said:
I present to the audience:
"silent sound cannon"

Note that this is an approximation of physics that does not take into account non-linear acoustics.

- Only bats, mice, and underwater mammals can hear a 100kHz tone. To everything else, this is silent.
- A death region that extends in a cone from the opening, out 2 m distance and .4 m radius, then approximately elliptically capping that cone out to a maximum distance of 4 m
- A Moderate Consequence region (surface level skin burns, busted ear-drums) that extends approximately conically out to 4 m, 1.6m radius, continues almost cylindically to 8m, 1.6 m radius, and elliptically caps off at 10m maximum axial distance
- A pain threshold region that extends out (approximately) to 14 m at 5.6 m radius, then elliptically to 18 m and 3.5 m radius, and elliptically caps off at a maximum axial distance of 20 m
-likely resembles a blow torch near the orifice, as the high local power intensity causes a small region of plasma-air

-A hollow metallic cylinder that is capped on one side. External hole is 1 cm in diameter.
-The metallic cylinder is at least wrapped in a secondary material hand-guard (wood, leather), to prevent sound transmission from hurting the user's hand through high frequency vibration. --The two materials must be sufficiently different in sound transmission coefficient to achieve this (multiple, non-uniform wrappings may be needed, but this does not really matter so long as it is accounted for through testing). Rubber, leather, or wood are likely materials.
- A noise generating seal is produced and attached to/embedded in the cylinder, which generates a pure 100 kHz tone at 192 dB, with initial dimensions such that it fills, but does not exceed, the metallic cylinder. There must be some mechanism to activate the seal, ideally discretely from the handguard. Works if you have a time-delay banshee

Helpful sites
Transducer Beam Spread
Beam Characteristics | Olympus IMS

For half-angle equivalent to dB loss of 6 and 20 dB:
FAQ: What factors influence the beam spread of an ultrasonic probe in the far zone?

For absorption coefficient
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Atmospheric_sound_absorption_coefficient_2.svg

For hearing ranges of animals
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Animal_hearing_frequency_range.svg

For damage guidelines
Guidelines for the Safe Use of Ultrasound: Part II - Industrial and Commercial Applications: Safety Code 24

## Damage Geometry ##
The absorption coefficient for a pure 100 kHz tone in standard atmosphere is between .5 and 4 dB/m depending on humidity. Use 3 dB/m to reduce spoon count.

The half-angle of the beam spread equivalent to a 6 dB loss is
half_theta_6dB = arcsin ( .56 * V / ( D* F) ) = 11 degrees
V = 343.2 m/s (speed of sound in air)
D = .01 m
F = 100e3 Hz

For 20 dB loss it is
half_theta_20dB = arcsin ( 1.08 * V / ( D* F) ) = 22 degrees

For the diffraction limit
half_theta_lim = arcsin( 1.22 * V / (D*F)) = 25 degrees (the maximum beam-width. beyond this cone, there is no substantive effect)

According to damage guidelines, eardrums likely burst and thin regions of skin may burn at ~160 dB. Death is likely at ~180 dB. Pain is somewhere around 130 dB. From these guidelines, and the previous loss mechanisms, determine the geometry of the death, consequence, and pain regions.

Along the axial direction of the cylinder
Death = 4 m (192 - 4*3 = 180 dB)
MC =10 m (192-10*3 = 162 dB)
Pain = 20 m (192-20*3 = 132 dB)

Along the 6dB half angle
Death = 2 m (192 - 2*3 - 6 = 180 dB). Radius = tan(theta)*2 = .4 m
MC = 8 m (192 - 8*3 - 6 = 162 dB). Radius = 1.6 m
Pain = 18 m (192 - 18*3-6 = 132 dB). Radius = 3.5 m

Along the 20dB half
Death - not possible
MC = 4 m (192 - 4*3 - 20 = 160 dB), 1.6 m
Pain = 14 m (192- 14*3 - 20). Radius = 5.6 m

## Heating Limit ##
The initial power flux coming out of the orifice is
Pref = 1e-12 W/m^2
P (192 dB) = 10^(19.2) * Pref = 1.58e7 W/m^2
With an orifice diameter of 1 cm, this corresponds to 1244.7 W emitted from the exit of the device

This should pose no problems to the atmosphere over the time scales this device would be activated. Note that the solar pressure at the surface of the Earth is approximately 1e3 W/m^2.

The device likely resembles a blow torch in the vicinity of the orifice.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I posted a while ago about lowering friendly fire and improving OPSEC with banshees by upping the frequency to inaudible ranges.

To do this, would need to be able to modify the frequency of banshee emission, and the radiated intensity - both things we have blueprints for (Chime seals and two variations on banshee power)

(In that regard, changing macerators is also something we have blueprints for)
 
MMKII said:
Hazou is an insufferable momma's boy. Clearly has parental attachment.

Besides, it was the loss of Oro's parents that turned him into a jerk, IIRC.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I thought it was the war. I remember scenes of kid Orochimaru in Team Hiruzen, and he seemed pretty well-adjusted for a Narutoverse orphan.

faflec said:
I'd summarized that this was the plan, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
In regard to this section of the plan in particular and plans in general, bear in mind that if it's not in the plan, it doesn't count. Put another way, I can guess that the objective of the section is to manipulate Akane in a way that's compatible with Hazō's IC motivations, but unless the plan says so, the right thing to do is to write the update as presented, i.e. an honest conversation that probably won't get generate any information that Akane herself doesn't already intend to provide.
 
Velorien said:
In regard to this section of the plan in particular and plans in general, bear in mind that if it's not in the plan, it doesn't count. Put another way, I can guess that the objective of the section is to manipulate Akane in a way that's compatible with Hazō's IC motivations, but unless the plan says so, the right thing to do is to write the update as presented, i.e. an honest conversation that probably won't get generate any information that Akane herself doesn't already intend to provide.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So you're saying we need to get better at manipulating Hazou and the others? :p
 
Velorien said:
In regard to this section of the plan in particular and plans in general, bear in mind that if it's not in the plan, it doesn't count. Put another way, I can guess that the objective of the section is to manipulate Akane in a way that's compatible with Hazō's IC motivations, but unless the plan says so, the right thing to do is to write the update as presented, i.e. an honest conversation that probably won't get generate any information that Akane herself doesn't already intend to provide.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That's fair, and basically what I'd expected to happen. Having Hazou act in a way that's consistent with his character, but actually intended to produce outcomes he can't be aware of due to lack of IC information, is always kind of tough from a planning perspective. I expect that Akane section to yield positive results on average, and maybe clue Hazou in that something's afoot as a longshot.

FYI, part of the IC context that didn't make it there due to word count constraints is that when Hazou tells Akane that she should speak out when she's unhappy and that her feelings matter, it's supposed to reference his realization that her not doing this is one of the reasons their relationship ended as it did. This is also not part of the plan, and you're free to ignore it, but I thought it might be helpful.
 
Velorien said:
I thought it was the war. I remember scenes of kid Orochimaru in Team Hiruzen, and he seemed pretty well-adjusted for a Narutoverse orphan.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Darn, I dunno dude. Kishimoto just makes stuff up. I'm pretty sure I saw a manga page somewhere implying this but I could be wrong.
 
eaglejarl said:
Your Sealing is currently 20, meaning an Aspect Bonus of +3. If you spend 3 days preparing and then infuse on the 4th day you will get +6 on your roll. When you bump your Sealing to 30 (AB of +4) you'll be able to prep for 4 days and infuse on the 5th in order to get +8. Spend a few all-nighters to give yourself a Mild physical and a Mild mental consequence (both of which wear off in about 24 hours) before doing your roll and you get another +2.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Is our rolls 1d20 + 3? Trying to understand how sealing research mechanic works.
 
Kiba said:
Is our rolls 1d20 + 3? Trying to understand how sealing research mechanic works.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The dice rolling mechanic is the same as the dice rolling mechanic for everything else: roll four three-sided (because we're not constrained to physical dice) numbered 3, 0, and -3. Sum, adjust the skill value by that number. Aspect Bonuses are equal to skill value divided by ten, plus one. If you want the exact mechanics of sealing research, you're better off looking at the rules.
 
I'm kind of worried about making plans even shorter for bonus XP than they already are, because of the risk of something tersely worded being misinterpreted in a way that we wouldn't want if the resulting text were given to us ahead of time and that resulting in consequences ranging from the inconvenient (like the 'wait Kagome didn't know we were giving Jiraiya the seals he taught us?') to the disastrous. (Like the killbox incident.)
 
TaliesinSkye said:
I'm kind of worried about making plans even shorter for bonus XP than they already are, because of the risk of something tersely worded being misinterpreted in a way that we wouldn't want if the resulting text were given to us ahead of time and that resulting in consequences ranging from the inconvenient (like the 'wait Kagome didn't know we were giving Jiraiya the seals he taught us?') to the disastrous. (Like the killbox incident.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I wouldn't be worried about it. If anything, bigger plans give us more words to shoot ourselves in the foot.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
I'm kind of worried about making plans even shorter for bonus XP than they already are, because of the risk of something tersely worded being misinterpreted in a way that we wouldn't want if the resulting text were given to us ahead of time and that resulting in consequences ranging from the inconvenient (like the 'wait Kagome didn't know we were giving Jiraiya the seals he taught us?') to the disastrous. (Like the killbox incident.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We get an extra hundred words with no penalty, and another hundred if we want to pay one xp.

I think it's a trap to fall into thinking of this as free xp. It's not. It's an incentive to keep plans short, and we're always free to say "no thanks, this is important enough to merit a longer plan."
 
TaliesinSkye said:
I'm kind of worried about making plans even shorter for bonus XP than they already are, because of the risk of something tersely worded being misinterpreted in a way that we wouldn't want if the resulting text were given to us ahead of time and that resulting in consequences ranging from the inconvenient (like the 'wait Kagome didn't know we were giving Jiraiya the seals he taught us?') to the disastrous. (Like the killbox incident.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I get the urge, I feel it too. But thinking back on the disasters that I remember, they were never caused by misinterpretation. They were caused by the hivemind forgetting important details. Details like: Thats a secret, don't let that person in on the secret. Or "We are technically hostile operatives that lots of people in the village hate, don't seem threatening under any circumstances."
 
After the tourny, when this bonus XP is less important, I would prefer that we be less stingy on wordcount in general, if we need to.

Or we can be stingy on some plans, and use that bonus XP on a 500 word plan the next plan. Etc.
 
Or we could stick to the 300 word plans, and more frequently get to use FP on sealing research.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open for the next 2 days, 5 hours
Remove ads
Back
Top