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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Magnive said:
Pretty sure her response to that would be to decide that Mari had manipulated Hazou into saying that and basically kidnap him, damn the consequences.
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I agree that it'll take some time, but I don't think she's such a dense character as to believe Hazou is absolutely and fully under Mari's control if he genuinely decides he doesn't like Hana anymore. Hence why I'm advocating for Hazou changing his mindset, not actively telling Hana things right now. There's groundwork to be laid before the killing blow. Largely, begining to make Hana and Hazou fight as Hana continues calling him baby names and mocking his plans. If Hana starts treating Hazou like an adult with agency and goals, and respecting that, that's also fine. If she doesn't Hazou should eventually come around.
 
Maybe Kurosawa do really have a problem with accepting/understanding that other people have agency? Hazou is kind of obvious, he doesn't really stop us from doing it (while he did block a therapy session with Neira pre-Exams), Hana is continuously overprotective and thinks he doesn't know better and Shin did throw Anna at Keiko despite knowing about Anna bullying her.

The Mori have trouble making plans (not that they are incapable of that), the main part of the Nara are apathetic, the Inuzuka seem to be overly loyal, etc. Maybe the Kurosawa just kind of forget that other people aren't just weird puppets?
 
MMKII said:
Does it?

Spherical detection is fairly useless if we have 20 seals stacked onto one Hazou. Especially at this scale. Way too much overlap.
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Cariyaga said:
Yeah, this was why I was going with conic seals. Sufficient overlap between them for sufficiently-close detection for Hazou and it'd work fine, I think?
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The point is the overlap. There would be a ring of seals on Hazou's belt, and Hazou's could tell:
  • Distance by seeing how much the vibration changes magnitude from one side of his body to the other. Things that are close will be much stronger feeling in one side than the other, things that are far away will feel about even on all sides.
  • Direction by seeing which side the vibration is stronger on.
  • Strength by looking at the magnitude of the vibration at the known distance.
Add another belt around his chest and gets all of that in 3D.

Edit: I am making the assumption that the amplitude of sensing follows the inverse square law, but in retrospect it's not clear if it does. We'd have to build the amplitude based ones and see.

If it isn't an inverse square law, then cones are a decent stopgap, but we'd still want spherical ones that change something else based on distance. Like tweak the frequency of the vibration based on distance.
 
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DAKKA! said:
Is skinwaste an actual word IRL? (maybe slang)

I find myself using it in my mind at times.
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So far as I know, I invented it a couple chapters ago as a concise form of "waste of skin", which is a real phrase

Kiba said:
Is this due to lack of farmers or lack of awareness or both?
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HDK

rkyeun said:
@eaglejarl
When my depression hits, I like to read things where depression is depicted well, and not in pithy ways. It's comforting in those dark places to not be shoved or pulled, but to be understood. To look over and see someone nodding somberly from the bottom of the same hole. I've had people try to force the funk out of me like this. So this is real, and hits home, and because of that, I love it.
So please, don't shake the story for fear of the reader. There are real emotions to be expressed, and you do a good job.
Thank you. You've helped.
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Thank you. That means a great deal, and is a real load off my mind.
 
Jello_Raptor said:
The point is the overlap. There would be a ring of seals on Hazou's belt, and Hazou's could tell:
  • Distance by seeing how much the vibration changes magnitude from one side of his body to the other. Things that are close will be much stronger feeling in one side than the other, things that are far away will feel about even on all sides.
  • Direction by seeing which side the vibration is stronger on.
  • Strength by looking at the magnitude of the vibration at the known distance.
Add another belt around his chest and gets all of that in 3D.
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And the same can be true of cones? Just make a real wide cone. Additionally,magical spheres off centered by a few inches stacked on top of each other aren't going to be as efficient as you might think at detecting Chakra whatever with great clarity. I don't think we've gotten it down to such precision yet.

Likewise I don't think this "Vibration Magnitude" feature is something we've implemented yet, either.

Though it looks like our sealing research might be stymied for a bit regardless.
 
Doing a till'n'fill mission takes a lot of our time just traveling. Like, the latest mission had us go an hour out to a farm. Which means that at minimum, it takes Hazō to commute for two hours for about fifty bucks worth of work.

That's two hours we lost not doing any research.
 
For the record, I don't dislike Hana and don't want Hazou to stop loving her.

Hana's caused us problems, and still doesn't completely mesh with our outlook and goals, but I don't think we should discard her just based on that. For one, Mari's emotional troubles were always there, and probably would've come to the fore eventually, so Hana triggered this bout of depression but didn't cause the depression in the first place. Secondly, we're exposing Hana to ideals she's never even heard of before, which go against what she's implicitly assumed her entire life, and she's still willing to not just hear us out, but commit to helping us achieve them.

I believe that if we let things settle down, Hazou will be able to explain to Hana why we care so much about civilians, and Hana will listen to us and come to understand, maybe even agree with us. In a completely detached sense, Hana is a wonderful opportunity for our goals, since she's a powerful Jounin from Mist who will do anything for us. If we ever want to exert influence on the Mizukage, we can ask Hana to help advance our goals. If we ever need help with diplomacy in Leaf, or help with our own social situations, we can ask experienced diplomat Hana for help and she'll give it.

Hazou's love for his mother is also good to have. It is implied that a good part of how Hazou can be so idealistic is the fact that he was raised with the pure unconditional love of Hana, and how the two of them care for each other so much. If we drop that bond, it's quite possible that will be a severe blow to Hazou's idealism or even his conviction in Uplift.

Plus, at the end of the day we've been trying to reach Hana long enough that I empathize with her as a character and want her to succeed and be happy. If we came all this far, bringing Hana up from the depths she sank to and giving her a reason to live again, only to send her back into despair just because she's inconvenient, I will be sad.
 
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Kiba said:
Doing a till'n'fill mission takes a lot of our time just traveling. Like, the latest mission had us go an hour out to a farm. Which means that at minimum, it takes Hazō to commute for two hours for about fifty bucks worth of work.

That's two hours we lost not doing any research.
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We can also make about 10 times that just making some seals to sell in the same time.

(And fund an equivalent amount of these if thats the avenue we wanna pursue. Just saying.)
 
Again people, it's ~3 months in-universe that we joined Leaf, we already changed international politics and created a new mission category (well J-man did). Paticience is needed to change the world. (Or we just kill everyone who disagrees like Dummy).
 
ContextBot said:
Again people, it's ~3 months in-universe that we joined Leaf, we already changed international politics and created a new mission category (well J-man did). Paticience is needed to change the world. (Or we just kill everyone who disagrees like Dummy).
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Isn't that what Akatsuki aiming to do? Kill anybody who disagree and cow everyone else into world peace? They have a fucked up way of achieving their goal.
 
Magnive said:
Pretty sure her response to that would be to decide that Mari had manipulated Hazou into saying that and basically kidnap him, damn the consequences.
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Hmm.

HANA: Time to kidnap you!

HAZOU: Noooo!

HANA: That damn Mari, how could-

A spear of lightning lodges itself in Hana's chest. Hana dies not a second later.

SASUKE: Lets see: Relative of mine, harming another relative of mine... kidnapping a Leaf shinobi...kenjutsu specialist, a prodigy. Meh, close enough for me.
 
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ContextBot said:
Maybe Kurosawa do really have a problem with accepting/understanding that other people have agency? Hazou is kind of obvious, he doesn't really stop us from doing it (while he did block a therapy session with Neira pre-Exams), Hana is continuously overprotective and thinks he doesn't know better and Shin did throw Anna at Keiko despite knowing about Anna bullying her.

The Mori have trouble making plans (not that they are incapable of that), the main part of the Nara are apathetic, the Inuzuka seem to be overly loyal, etc. Maybe the Kurosawa just kind of forget that other people aren't just weird puppets?
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To be fair, I'd bet that a large part of the problem is that she last saw him as a fresh barely-genin about to go on his first real mission two years ago. Especially in childhood/early teens, two years is developmentally huge - Hazou is much more mature than he was, but she didn't see it happen, so almost certainly thinks of him mostly as she did before he went missing-nin. On top of that, those years were spent in constant stress and frequent life-or-death situations where he held a leadership position - exactly the kind of thing to drive maturity (or break someone, but Hazou seems to be as mentally healthy as could be hoped for).

On the subject of Kagome's threats - I think him being prepared to kill someone who's psychologically attacked someone he loves and is insisting on doing more of the same, while they tresspass in his home (as that's what it'd be if she was asked to leave and refused) is actually kinda reasonable, given everything. Not optimal, sure, but not as excessive as it could be (or as excessive as he has been, in the past).

Also, @eaglejarl, bonus points for smoothly including Hazou being sneaky and using that Deceit score to do stuff in the way that has occasionally been said to not happen - I certainly wouldn't want him to be obvious while poking into at least one ninja's personal life :p. Especially if the head of T&I is involved. The update was brutal, but in appropriate ways.
 
Erolki said:
Hazou seems to be as mentally healthy as could be hoped for
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Have you seen some of the stuff posted in this thread? This kid is so uh.... productively insane (like Batman) that its amazing.

OliWhail said:
So what you're saying is...
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Earning a massive fuck-off pile of money should be High Priority, since in this society that should allow us to advance a lot of stuff we want to advance.

Whether we become Super Altruists or anything is up to the thread, but as a Person Who Does Research, I think funding a lot of Medical/Science/Sealing/TheoreticalOtherStuff R&D as well as general educational stuff is probably a decent place to start.
 
I would like to echo that I quite enjoyed Sneaky Spy Hazou, and would support creating more opportunities for this particular skillset to shine through.
 
firestorm440 said:
She's acting perfectly reasonably for the situation she's in, with the facts she has, from her perspective.
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This is never a valid justification for causing harm out of apathy or spite.

Even if it were, Hana is practicing no small amount of willful ignorance to continue to believe her interpretation of reality. She has continually interpreted every observable as evidence in her favor and found cause to dismiss any arguments to the contrary. This is not how a reasonable person operates.

Believable? Yes. Realistic? Yes. Sympathetic, understandable, relatable? Yes. Reasonable? No. Rational? Hell no.

(I hate that this bears mentioning, but this is not a dig at QMs. Not everyone should behave rationally in a rational setting. That would be absurd -- most people IRL don't.)

Inferno Vulpix said:
If we drop that bond, it's quite possible that will be a severe blow to Hazou's idealism or even his conviction in Uplift.
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On the plus side, if there's any relation at all with the IN and the Sharingan...
 
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Vecht said:
On the plus side, if there's any relation at all with the IN and the Sharingan...
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I would laugh myself silly if the Mangekyou Iron Nerve is "Voluntary control over autonomous nervous system." or something.

Wouldnt that be a hoot? I'm sure we could munchkin it to death(literally), but "Hey, you have to beat your heart manually now." would be such a drag!

It's like "You are now breathing and blinking manually." but worse!
 
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