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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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huhYeahGoodPoint said:
You know, I just realized we literally have invented a system to make diplo rolls better for us: CCnJ.

Skill: Clear Communication No Jutsu
1*Int, 1*Manipulation

Requires both parties to have skill.
Learning skill requires someone to have previously introduced them to the idea and willingness to learn.
No prerequisites required aside from being alive and able to reason.

Bonding over frustration about inefficient ways to communicate, Hazou and Keiko created a new conversational method in a burst of analytical creativity. When introduced, CCnJ was met with indifference to eager adoption, but Mari sensei has warned that some may not understand and there are definitely situations where it is not okay.
  • Initial Deception roll.
  • Starting level removes best half of deception rolls for the interaction
  • Higher levels of CCnJ remove the highest remaining deception die from both parties, with the party with the least CCnJ being the one to determine how many die are lost.
  • Success will add +3 dice to social interaction(needs to be refined)
  • Actual social interaction will add two thirds of the difference between the lower diplomacy stat and higher diplomacy stat to the lower diplomacy stat rounded down, along with any die gained during Deception roll
    • e.g Hazo CCnJing with Keiko will give Hazo 16 dice and Keiko 21, assuming Hazou doesn't win the deception roll, in which case he gains +3 (arbitrary right now) to make the interaction 19 die vs 21.
  • Using CCnJ on target has a chance to remove two diplomacy die from all interactions within the conversation if the target does not have CCnJ or does not approve of CCnJ in context (read: marriage proposals, etc.
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Seems mechanically complicated and thematically wrong to involve deception, but it is a great idea to turn CCnJ into a skill. I think we could simplify it like this...

CCnJ
Composure*1, Intelligence*3, Resolve*3
If both parties have CCnJ and using it is appropriate for the situation, add CCnJ level to diplomacy roll.
 
I'm pretty sure diplomacy is used in adversarial situations. CCNJ should instead be viewed as a mutual agreement not to make the situation adversarial.
 
OliWhail said:
Personal anecdata: it can also be used to help *prevent* a situation from becoming unintentionally adversarial.
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How do you do that, then, if it's two people rolling against each other? Shouldn't that variety of diplomacy be more, I dunno, rolling against a target number?

e: I guess what I'm getting at is that someone else being good at diplomacy shouldn't prevent you from honestly explaining a situation.
 
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Cariyaga said:
I guess what I'm getting at is that someone else being good at diplomacy shouldn't prevent you from honestly explaining a situation.
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This is true IFF the other party doesn't, ceteris paribus, actively want the situation to become confrontational. You can explain the team's current situation as clearly and honestly as you want to Yagura and he'll still do his honest best to fucking murder you, as an example.
 
OliWhail said:
This is true IFF the other party doesn't, ceteris paribus, actively want the situation to become confrontational. You can explain the team's current situation as clearly and honestly as you want to Yagura and he'll still do his honest best to fucking murder you, as an example.
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Yep, not denying that :p
 
OliWhail said:
This is true IFF the other party doesn't, ceteris paribus, actively want the situation to become confrontational. You can explain the team's current situation as clearly and honestly as you want to Yagura and he'll still do his honest best to fucking murder you, as an example.
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All else equal, I prefer English phrases like "all else equal" to Latin phrases that mean the same thing. ib4 "Ceteris paribus, I prefer Latin phrases like "ceteris paribus" to English phrases that mean the same thing."
 
Opening proposal for Social skill based on Iron nerve
Iron Presence: Manipulation * 2, Presence * 2, Wits * 2
Add half your Iron Presence to diplomacy and deception checks
Iron Presence can not exceed either Diplomacy or Deception
Iron Presence is a Kurosawa skill only taught to potential clan heads
Iron Presence can not be used to determine if deception is being used against you

Currently without this skill it cost 2690 experience to get 40 dice in both deception and diplomacy
With this skill it cost 1874 experience to reach 40 a saving of 30%
It cost 5940 experience to get 60 dice in both deception and diplomacy
With this skill it cost 4575 experience to reach 60 dice a saving of 23%

Currently Hazou has 636 experience invested in leveling socials.
With this skill he would have 692 experience invested in leveling socials.
 
Immediately useful for the war effort:

Semaphore system - light speed communication, especially if secured by cryptography. Even without the cryptography, the ability to communicate across vast distance at increased speed will let us operate faster than the enemy's OODA strategic loop, provided that the leadership don't micromanage the troops at the front.

Long shot:

Airship - If we can make airships that can go faster than ninja speed, we can surprise our enemies by attacking where it is unexpected and exfiltrate faster.
 
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Just to check for hidden gems among the rubbish, did any of my thrown-together-haphazardly-in-an-attempt-to-one-up-Jiraiya social seal ideas appeal to anyone?

MadScientist said:
*cracks knuckles*

Alright expert sealmasters, challenge accepted.

  • A seal that gives an output when it hears a lie. Key this output to a noticeable, but not harmful, amount of heat and stick it in your pocket.
  • A seal that gives an output when it detects a specific emotion in surrounding people. Can't distinguish between targets so would ping off your own emotions, but would help if you aren't feeling an emotion but the only other person within range is, so that's something, I guess. Could shape the detection area as a cone pointed forwards from you so that it only pings off the person in front of you. Could have multiple seals for different emotions hidden under your shirt keyed to a temperature-change output, would have to memorise which positioned seal tracks which emotion, though.
  • A seal that distorts sound passing through its radius while you keep it on, making your voice sound inhuman and terrifying.
  • A seal that harmonises sound passing through its radius while you keep it on, making your voice sound melodic and beautiful.
  • A seal that adds blurring to sound passing through its radius while you keep it on, eliminating distinctive features from your voice and making it harder to detect signs of deception from your tone.
  • A seal that does any other generic intimidating special effect, such as making your shadow writhe with evil images, or surrounding you with a harmless looks-like-fire-but-isn't-really chakra construct.
  • A seal that blurs light slightly in its radius, effectively airbrushing the image of you that others see while you wear it, making you look more attractive.
  • A seal that subtly scents the air around you, cycling different perfume-types, so that you always smell nice and no one can get used to the smell and stop smelling it, but only creating just enough of a scent for the good-smell association with the wearer to be subliminal.

(btw, I am totally just throwing ideas at the wall to see what sticks, I know some of these sound dumb and/or really hard)
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I reckon lie-detector seals are probably either beyond our reach or already in use by T&I, and emotion-detector seals are in a similar position, but the others don't sound too hard for us to make after researching some seals in a similar field to decrease their TNs and could be useful for a +1 or +2 bonus dice each.
 
MadScientist said:
Just to check for hidden gems among the rubbish, did any of my thrown-together-haphazardly-in-an-attempt-to-one-up-Jiraiya social seal ideas appeal to anyone?



I reckon lie-detector seals are probably either beyond our reach or already in use by T&I, and emotion-detector seals are in a similar position, but the others don't sound too hard for us to make after researching some seals in a similar field to decrease their TNs and could be useful for a +1 or +2 bonus dice each.
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I liked the last one, myself.
 
MadScientist said:
Just to check for hidden gems among the rubbish, did any of my thrown-together-haphazardly-in-an-attempt-to-one-up-Jiraiya social seal ideas appeal to anyone?
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I like these
A seal that does any other generic intimidating special effect, such as making your shadow writhe with evil images, or surrounding you with a harmless looks-like-fire-but-isn't-really chakra construct.
A seal that distorts sound passing through its radius while you keep it on, making your voice sound inhuman and terrifying.
A seal that harmonises sound passing through its radius while you keep it on, making your voice sound melodic and beautiful.
 
I'd prefer lie-detection seals, myself. The idea would be to work with Noburi on biodetection seals (i.e., seals that can read heart rate and the like), since having seals with the ability to check important biological functions can be really useful.

Maybe a long-term project, though.
 
Cariyaga said:
I liked the last one, myself.
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Hmn.

If we got 3 different kinds of perfume, we could make three copies of a modded macerator/tunneler's friend hybrid that takes in liquid perfume and then continuously sprays out for twenty minutes a small amount of it that's been macerated into a vapour, then shuts off for forty minutes, before activating again. You then set the second one to activate as soon as the first shuts off, and the third when the second does.

Macerator-based perfume-cycling seals are exactly Hazou's cup of tea.
 
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MadScientist said:
Hmn.

If we got 3 different kinds of perfume, we could make three copies of a modded macerator/tunneler's friend hybrid that takes in liquid perfume and then continuously sprays out for twenty minutes a small amount of it that's been macerated into a vapour, then shuts off for forty minutes, before activating again. You then set the second one to activate as soon as the first shuts off, and the third when the second does.

Macerator-based perfume-cycling seals are exactly Hazou's cup of tea.
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That doesn't sound too hard, actually.
 
Oneiros43 said:
Opening proposal for Social skill based on Iron nerve
Iron Presence: Manipulation * 2, Presence * 2, Wits * 2
Add half your Iron Presence to diplomacy and deception checks
Iron Presence can not exceed either Diplomacy or Deception
Iron Presence is a Kurosawa skill only taught to potential clan heads
Iron Presence can not be used to determine if deception is being used against you
by
Currently without this skill it cost 2690 experience to get 40 dice in both deception and diplomacy
With this skill it cost 1874 experience to reach 40 a saving of 30%
It cost 5940 experience to get 60 dice in both deception and diplomacy
With this skill it cost 4575 experience to reach 60 dice a saving of 23%

Currently Hazou has 636 experience invested in leveling socials.
With this skill he would have 692 experience invested in leveling socials.
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@OliWhail @eaglejarl @Velorien
Another slightly less powerful option would be to split it into 2 skills

Iron Presence 2.0 : Manipulation * 3, Presence * 2, Wits * 2
Iron Manipulation : Manipulation * 2, Presence * 3, Wits * 2
Same as above but with Iron Presence only applying to diplomacy. While Iron Manipulation applies to deception.
To get to 60 dice in both social with those would cost 5415 experience which is a 10% saving
To get to 40 dice in both socials would cost 2280 experience a 15% saving

This version does let us focus on leveling one social track at a time. Though the overall skills are considerably less powerful than my original proposal. Will try to get a version based on the Roki mechanics of opposed dice rolls together by tomorrow.
 
Cariyaga said:
That doesn't sound too hard, actually.
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We could start with a simpler version that just uses one perfume, and once we've got that working we can look at the cycling mechanism.

If needbe we could also have all three seals on at a time, but only outputting at full speed 1/3 of the time, and spending the rest of the time idle. In that case, it's not that the seals are activating each other, they're just all on a periodic timer and synced up.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
If needbe we could also have all three seals on at a time, but only outputting at full speed 1/3 of the time, and spending the rest of the time idle. In that case, it's not that the seals are activating each other, they're just all on a periodic timer and synced up.
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Um... that's exactly what I proposed.

MadScientist said:
If we got 3 different kinds of perfume, we could make three copies of a modded macerator/tunneler's friend hybrid that takes in liquid perfume and then continuously sprays out for twenty minutes a small amount of it that's been macerated into a vapour, then shuts off for forty minutes, before activating again. You then set the second one to activate as soon as the first shuts off, and the third when the second does.
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Why in the world did you guys decide to make Hazō taijutsu speced instead of weapon speced? Like seriously bad optimization there
 
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