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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Guys, please stop talking WMDs and help me deal with the glaring problem in the plan that's currently winning. Pretty please?

Rihaku said:
If Jiraiya's contact in Tea doesn't have a means of contacting him even for an emergency-priority message, then we stop to discuss negotiating tactics with Mari while brainstorming other means of potentially contacting him, with the update ending before a day or so has passed in Tea. Once we're actually in a Leaf-adjacent country we'll have a better idea of the factors involved.

If Jiraiya is easily contacted, there's no need to prematurely deal with the Hokage and/or Leaf patrols and risk a misunderstanding. For example, the team could be taken in and Skywalkers seized with no negotiation whatsoever. Rather than selling them for a peerage you'd be reduced to begging for your life.

If Jiraiya is not easily contacted, then Hazou will need MUCH more thorough preparations before the team should feel comfortable interacting with Leaf.

Alternatively, just wait until the Pangolins reach him. Not ideal, but there would still be 3 days to deal with the Condor Summoner situation. Point is, the thread can better decide at that point.
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The main problem with the waiting 11 days thing is that Jiraiya may not be in a position where he can get to the location we need him to quickly, or be able to call in other Leaf support. We'd have to do all the scouting ourselves, which most of the people here are reluctant to do because of how deadly the setting has become. This is why we want to go directly to Leaf itself - even if Jiraiya himself is not available, Hiruzen could still send other assets to aid us or do the mission for us. Time is a resource, and we need as much of it as possible dedicated to mission prep if we're going to go forward with it, and I'd like to salvage my plan as is if it's reasonably possible.
 
Speed of messenger summons becomes very important here, and presumably a known factor (except maybe that Pangolins are out of practice). It also seems to suggest "town a short ways from leaf, with a real messenger summon" is much more likely to succeed than "town outside the border" or anything. And maybe encourages "airdrop a message balloon over hokage tower" a little? :3

Please remember that we did already discuss negotiating generally, including several possible things to want out of it, and got their opinions. This happened before the Panicgolin update as Oliwhail had us decide to go to Leaf then ended it for us so we could redecide on XP (maybe "end here" notes aren't neccessary?) . I don't know that "have another plan to discuss negotiating with Mari" makes sense unless we've significantly changed the topic with new info, if anything some of Enjou's ideas to propose before taking direct to negotation were already covered and thrown out (but can be kept because explicit Overton Window highballing, not real expectation.)
 
Enjou said:
Guys, please stop talking WMDs and help me deal with the glaring problem in the plan that's currently winning. Pretty please?



The main problem with the waiting 11 days thing is that Jiraiya may not be in a position where he can get to the location we need him to quickly, or be able to call in other Leaf support. We'd have to do all the scouting ourselves, which most of the people here are reluctant to do because of how deadly the setting has become. This is why we want to go directly to Leaf itself - even if Jiraiya himself is not available, Hiruzen could still send other assets to aid us or do the mission for us. Time is a resource, and we need as much of it as possible dedicated to mission prep if we're going to go forward with it, and I'd like to salvage my plan as is if it's reasonably possible.
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Canon Naruto had messenger hawks, can't we try to get one of those?
 
OliWhail said:
Note that you guys at least have the option of arguing this counts as a situation where you should use the codes J gave Mari:
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Does Mari consider this an emergency?

I'm actually asking her because we don't know what constitutes one. Like my definition of emergency is "Madara is starting the Moon's Eye Plan", but obviously this code isn't made for that sort of insanity.
 
Cariyaga said:
Assuming I didn't miss it in the last plan, I still wanna do this.
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Hazou studied the history books under "Misc Plans" in the last plan, though they were to be done at GM discretion. @OliWhail, @eaglejarl, @Velorien - did Hazou study the history books?


Kiba said:
Need to make sure those codes aren't out of date as well.
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Given they are emergency codes and not "Hi, are you a fellow agent of our favorite Pervert Sage?" signals, they're probably fine. It hasn't been that long.
 
Re: Jiraya's emergency codes

They're probably the sort of thing that gets you immediately put in a killbox while Leaf goes off to verify your identity and your story; after which point you get vetted to make sure this wasn't a trap.

THEN you get to talk with the Hokage.
 
faflec said:
Re: Jiraya's emergency codes

They're probably the sort of thing that gets you immediately put in a killbox while Leaf goes off to verify your identity and your story; after which point you get vetted to make sure this wasn't a trap.

THEN you get to talk with the Hokage.
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This is why I asked @OliWhail how they're used. There's a big difference if we're going to talk to a border patrol or the gate guards versus using the codes with our contact in Tea. (plus I need the functional difference to put into my plan accordingly)
 
faflec said:
Re: Jiraya's emergency codes

They're probably the sort of thing that gets you immediately put in a killbox while Leaf goes off to verify your identity and your story; after which point you get vetted to make sure this wasn't a trap.

THEN you get to talk with the Hokage.
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If they try we sky dance away. I suggest the moonwalk
 
faflec said:
Does Mari consider this an emergency?

I'm actually asking her because we don't know what constitutes one. Like my definition of emergency is "Madara is starting the Moon's Eye Plan", but obviously this code isn't made for that sort of insanity.
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Guuuuuuh. I really don't wanna leave you guys hanging, but I also don't wanna make a unilateral ruling here. My vote would be 'she thinks that even if it's not technically an emergency, it's pretty urgent and Jiraiya is probably enough of a Sealing nerd that he will quickly go from being annoyed to being excited', but one of the other QMs could easily feel that e.g. 'Mari is very wary about treading on Jiraiya's goodwill after what happened last time and doesn't want to use those codes unless someone has suffered grievous bodily harm'; you guys can of course include arguments for or against doing this in your plan, alongside some backup method, and let @eaglejarl figure out her response.

Enjou said:
THANK YOU! Also, just to clarify, where exactly are these codes to be used? Are they to be giving to a patrol, gate guards, or what?
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...fuck it, let's go with 'a patrol' and if I've misunderstood then EJ or @Velorien can yell at me in QM chat.

@Vecht it's probably whatever the surface of fairly smooth glass is
 
OliWhail said:
Guuuuuuh. I really don't wanna leave you guys hanging, but I also don't wanna make a unilateral ruling here. My vote would be 'she thinks that even if it's not technically an emergency, it's pretty urgent and Jiraiya is probably enough of a Sealing nerd that he will quickly go from being annoyed to being excited', but one of the other QMs could easily feel that e.g. 'Mari is very wary about treading on Jiraiya's goodwill after what happened last time and doesn't want to use those codes unless someone has suffered grievous bodily harm'; you guys can of course include arguments for or against doing this in your plan, alongside some backup method, and let @eaglejarl figure out her response.
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H: Well that's easily solved; let's pick a fight with a chakra monster. Hey Kagome, you know where Hidden Depths gets its megalodons?
 
I have updated my plan to have us use the emergency codes we got from Jiraiya instead of doing the Pangolin thing we were doing before. See below. Relevant changes bolded. Someone please go over it and let me know if there's something glaring I missed - I'm kinda sleepy and want to go to bed soon, but I'll be up for a bit longer.

Enjou said:
[X] Action Plan: Go Directly To Leaf, Do Not Pass Go

Goals:
  • Survive
  • Safely negotiate With Leaf for citizenship
  • Get Leaf to assist or handle the Capybara scroll situation
Methods:
Hazou suggests to the team that the lack of information on this mission makes it too high risk to pursue ourselves, and thus we need assistance. This means working with Jiraiya or Leaf in some manner, in which case the existence of Skywalkers will be known to them because the team would likely need to make use of them for the mission. This means that the logical thing to do would be to go ahead and negotiate with Leaf for citizenship, and get their assistance in this matter.

Hazou will talk over the following plan with the team. Barring glaring deficiencies that are not easily corrected in character, execute the plan. If there are glaring problems noted by the team that would necessitate player action, end update for re-planning.
  1. While the team will aim to go directly to Leaf, Keiko will still contract the Pangolin messenger and send him to the Toads with the information available on the situation and a plan to meet Jiraiya in an agreed upon location in Iron or Rice as a contingency for the event that for whatever reason the team is not able to open negotiations in Fire through more direct means.
  2. The team will dismantle the camp and head to Fire.
    1. Before you leave, take some time to test the Deathenators/Youthenizers WMDs testing block if the team doesn't veto it.
    2. Ask Mari and Keiko if it might be a good idea to make a pitstop in Tea and get up to date code signals from our contact with Jiraiya there. If they think so, then do so.
      1. Ask if he has a faster means of contacting Jiraiya/Leaf than what is proposed below.
    3. Hazou suggests that this situation merits the use of the emergency codes that Mari received from Jiraiya, though the ultimate judgement call on that is up to her.
      1. Arguments for this are the time-sensitive nature of the mission, with any and all preparation time gained through direct contact with Leaf and their ability to send assets on the mission increasing the odds of success. Jiraiya himself may also be so pleased with the Skywalkers that he may forgive a slightly improper use of the emergency codes.
      2. Arguments against are that Jiraiya's good will is needed for the negotiations to go through optimally, and that improper use of the codes could result in loss of good will.
      3. Hazou suggests that if the codes are used then the best locations to contact a border patrol to escort us to Leaf might be at the borders of Tea or Iron. He also suggests that peaceful contact be established by setting a signal fire near the border (which side is better he is unsure of) to announce your presence to the patrol and minimizing the chance of accidental violence.
        1. Tea's advantage is that it's closer to where the team is now and the border may be less likely to be watched by enemy agents. It's disadvantage is that it would take longer to go on foot to arrive at Leaf, though if the border patrol is willing to use Nobori's chakra water to keep moving as they escort us it may go faster, though we can't count on that.
        2. Iron's advantage is that it's closer to Leaf itself, so the journey will take less time and may be faster. However, we have been to Iron before recently so the possibility of hunter-nin looking for us is there, however low it might be near the border.
  3. Hazou suggests the following negotiation strategies to the team, but Mari may veto any idea, make changes, or additions as she feels are needed.
    1. Mari does the talking. Keiko possibly as backup as well. Hazou does not speak unless prompted to by Mari.
    2. Hazou suggests highballing to some degree. This could include asking for clan status, knowing that this could be rejected, so as to make it less likely that the more essential requirements the team has are not negotiated down from.
    3. Team Uplift offers Skywalkers, any seal innovations made since our last deal, and Team Uplift itself and all the value that entails (innovative sealmasters, bloodlines, summoning scroll, etc.). The team is also willing to obfuscate their identities within Leaf to any extent that Leaf requires until it becomes pointless to hide it.
    4. Team Uplift asks for... (includes high ball terms to be dropped if needed)
      1. Citizenship with Leaf and all the rights and privileges that entails.
      2. Clan status.
        1. Can be dropped, or negotiated down from.
        2. Suggest maybe that one way to drop down from this at one point without immediately dropping it is Mari's joke that she played on Hazou - Mari offers to marry Jiraiya, Jiraiya adopts the rest of the team and forms a clan with him as clan head.
      3. Leaf will attempt to extract Hazou's mother from Mist at some point in the future.
        1. Mention our possible plan for how this might be done.
      4. Leaf will assist with the Capybara scroll situation.
        1. The team gets the Capybara scroll for one of its members. (negotiable, though note that the Pangolins likely want a member of your team to have it anyways and it would make them happier)
      5. Preference for non-frontline missions in the coming war, and ones not directly against Mist. Acknowledge this will not always be possible, but much of our team is more suited towards back line work anyways (Sealmasters research, Keiko is good at logistics tasks, Noburi is a med-nin and has an interest in pursuing medical research).
      6. The seal information for the cell we were locked in before, as per Kagome's specification, and land to build a secure base on within Leaf that he can secure to his heart's content within its borders. (Jiraiya's land if the marriage offer is accepted?) Note that we need our own research facility anyways.
      7. No mind scans. Ever.
      8. A genin to taste our food for us at random. Suggest the Akimichi kid. He'd enjoy it.
      9. Any other Kagome demands that Mari think should be included for legitimate reasons or highballing.
      10. Promise of fair payment for future developments.
      11. Chakra metal weapons for Keiko.
      12. Anything else the team thinks should be added.
    5. Explaining skywalker utility.
      • +20 to TacMove, +15 to Stealth - Even without the other applications, the raw combat bonus of the Seals alone would justify the asking price and more
      • Untraceable movement
      • Bypass rough terrain - Example: the team moved from middle of the continent to Snow, and then from Snow to a tropical island, in a matter of days, crossing over a dozen borders undetected.
      • Combined with Skytowers, deploy dozens of Jounin to an above-cloud-cover Skybase in the heart of enemy territory
      • Pepper Hidden Leaf & Fire Country with Skybases, enabling 3-dimensional guerilla warfare and turning the country into a quagmire for any nation to invade
      • Exponentially multiply feasible angles of attack and evasion in operations from the single-unit scale all the way up to total war
      • Massive superiority in jounin vs jounin scenarios, allow chunin to fight stalling / defensive battles against jounin
      • More efficient patrols, easy supply of skytowers, faster AND stealthier high-speed couriers for every situation, vastly more effective extraction procedures, easy aerial reconnaissance and bombardment... the applications are as numerous as they are profound
      • Non-obvious economic implications - +20 Tacmove makes all Konoha ninja extremely safe against ninja of the same level, letting all ranks of ninja take missions 1-2 letter ratings higher than before. Faster couriers and 3d movement open up enormous areas of economic innovation space.
      • Usable even by genin
    6. An impressive, but non-threatening demonstration of Skywalker power and versatility.
      • Walking upside-down or sideways; fully exhibiting the entire range of human acrobatic motion - hopping, skipping, jumping, spinning, sprinting, mock combat with full jutsu usage - while sideways or upside-down, doing so for several minutes at a time
      • Jiraiya has a friendly spar against Mari to demonstrate the full power of Skywalker evasiveness & stealth buffs?
    7. Anticipating Jiraiya's tactics.
      • Attack Practicality:
        -> Point Out Supply Bottlenecks
        -> Scarce Sealmaster Time

        Your counter: Mari will state that Hazou & Kagome will agree to produce a reasonable-but-high weekly supply of Skywalkers themselves, will also commit to teaching Skywalker creation to Leaf Sealmasters. Very few of the arguments for Skywalker utility hinge on massive numbers of Skywalkers being produced - if hidden villages only have a few dozen Jounin at most (Leaf may have many dozen), then a few hundred Skywalkers is enough to outfit the entire force.

        Over time, economies of scale will enable mass-production of Skywalkers, even if not on the scale of storage or explosive seals.

        -> Point Out Skywalker Weaknesses
        -> 60 cm thing, moisture vulnerability, etc

        Your counter: Empirical proof of Skywalkers being field-tested across hundreds of miles from arctic (Snow) climes to tropical (current location) ones. Acknowledgement that Skywalkers are imperfect, but even current-state Skywalkers are good enough to perform virtually all of the tactics listed above. The team is asking for so much precisely in order to ensure the safety & free time to continue improving Skywalkers; Kagome's already improved their reliability since the flight from Snow.

        -> You're missing-nins and can't be trusted

        Your counter: Already trusted as deniable assets (trust the team not to announce that, trust the team to perform sensitive missions like Arikada, etc), Jiraiya already knows the team's priorities and that they are relatively compatible with his, Jiraiya already knows sympathetic circumstances of team's exile from Mist, PR consequences of taking in missing-nins can be avoided / minimized with properly executed Witness Protection Obfuscation Program. War is on the horizon, after war starts no one will believe Mist about Leaf taking in missing-nins anyway, Skywalkers would contribute massively to Leaf's odds in war.
      • Attack Emotionally: What You're Asking For Is Outrageous

        Your counter: Regardless if it sounds outrageous, what matters is the actual value of the strategic asset on offer, and the actual value of Skywalkers is far beyond the asking price. How many S-class missions would he take in order to ensure +20 TacMove, +15 Stealth for every Leaf jounin? Most of what Hazou is asking for is a moderate expense for a Hidden Village (an A-rank witness protection mission, some money, etc) or actively helpful to improving Skywalkers (high-status/resource position, Hana's safety - Hazou more able to develop WMDs if his mother is outside the blast radius).
      • Bluffing That He's Figured It Out
        -> Call the Bluff
        -> Point out futility of exploring a search space that large - even if he thinks he knows how we did it, what if he's wrong and/or intentionally misled by one of Kagome's security features? He would be throwing away a massive opportunity for nothing.
      • Leaf Has the Power In This Situation

        Your counter: Yes, which is why Hazou is selling Skywalkers for relatively cheap, instead of asking for 50 S-Rank and 200 A-Rank missions worth of favors. Also countered by establishing alternative buyers and taking reasonable precautions

      • I Lack The Authority

        Your counter: Okay, go talk with Hiruzen and get back to us
      • Any other tactics Mari thinks Jiraiya might come up with - have her tell us on-screen or at least in an OOC summary so we can plan countermeasures

        (Post-Sale) Buyer's Remorse - "All you did was modify a Seal I gave you"

        Your counter: You had the seal for how long and didn't think of this? Wonder what Hazou could come up with if allowed to look at all of Leaf's Seals...
    4. Provided the team has reached Fire and contacted Leaf successfully, the update will end at enough time before negotiations in order to give the players time to discuss any finalized negotiation strategy that needs to occur based on the team's feedback. (Plus so OliWhail can write the actual negotiation and Jiraiya getting gobsmacked)
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I... think that covers everything? Please give me thoughts and suggestions for improvements.
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Last edited:
Enjou said:
I have updated my plan to have us use the emergency codes we got from Jiraiya instead of doing the Pangolin thing we were doing before. See below. Relevant changes bolded. Someone please go over it and let me know if there's something glaring I missed - I'm kinda sleepy and want to go to bed soon, but I'll be up for a bit longer.
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Deadline is tomorrow 9AM EST IIRC; that's 8 hours and 45+ minutes.

Get to sleep, set your alarm to go off in 8 hours. Then check the thread.

Or, if you have work/school, set it earlier and check it whenever that is.
 
faflec said:
Deadline is tomorrow 9AM EST IIRC; that's 8 hours and 45+ minutes.

Get to sleep, set your alarm to go off in 8 hours. Then check the thread.

Or, if you have work/school, set it earlier and check it whenever that is.
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Well, I probably won't sleep past 8 anyways, and will likely be up before that even without the alarm, but I do like to sleep in if I can. I'll stick around for a few minutes to see if anyone comes up with something I need to change.


OliWhail said:
What kind of heathen has work / school on the Lord's Day smh go 2 church
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People who work in restaurants. I'm not one of them, but just sayin'. :p
 
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