Dragon Ball: After the End

[Lailoken]

So it gives us bonuses for learning Multi-Form and the Four Witches Technique. The other parts of that - IT, disruption techniques - we already know, as well as already knowing Multiform and training it. Why do we want the life-force technique when we're already Talented with the Kamehameha? All of these things the style gives us are also given by Ki Manipulation (except the FWGT), which for purposes of level-locking is already much further progressed.

Don't get me wrong, I can see the advantages to learning it when we get the Spirit Bomb. But until then, why is it a priority next turn?
EDIT: I mean we'll have to spend actions learning the FWGT anyway, right?

Click to shrink...

I don't think that style training is a priority right now, but I am expecting that a formal style will also make techniques more effective in addition to just helping learn them because they have been incorporated into a coherent and practiced whole. It also may improve the odds of inventing new disruption techniques or applications thereof.

Kamehameha tends to be a long, slow, and a concentrated yet ki-limited attack. You can see it coming, and while it's being used the user is vulnerable to being flanked. That's a problem for somebody who expects to be splitting their ki pool and facing multiple enemies. Tien's blast can be whipped out in a moment with no charge time, devastates an adjustable area which is hard to dodge, lets even a weaker fork hit at high power, and is over just as fast. For somebody who doesn't like hurting people and only really expects to need a ki blast to do it on the rare occasion of a peer or stronger opponent in the midst of mobs of lesser opponents, that's much more useful. That it can also provide a hugely powerful and flexible family of novel attacks with a huge fuel supply and no downsides when combined with spirit bomb is just a (massive) bonus.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

I don't think that style training is a priority right now, but I am expecting that a formal style will also make techniques more effective in addition to just helping learn them because they have been incorporated into a coherent and practiced whole. It also may improve the odds of inventing new disruption techniques or applications thereof.

Kamehameha tends to be a long, slow, and a concentrated yet ki-limited attack. You can see it coming, and while it's being used the user is vulnerable to being flanked. That's a problem for somebody who expects to be splitting their ki pool and facing multiple enemies. Tien's blast can be whipped out in a moment with no charge time, devastates an adjustable area which is hard to dodge, lets even a weaker fork hit at high power, and is over just as fast. For somebody who doesn't like hurting people and only really expects to need a ki blast to do it on the rare occasion of a peer or stronger opponent in the midst of mobs of lesser opponents, that's much more useful. That it can also provide a hugely powerful and flexible family of novel attacks with a huge fuel supply and no downsidse when combined with spirit bomb is just a (massive) bonus.

Click to shrink...

Ah, so you feel that in addition to the training bonuses you feel the explicit combat bonuses of using a style are worth it? That's fair. While Ki Manipulation also helps there, in immediate combat power having an actual style is probably more effective.

Oh, and I missed an obvious one for the Golden Oozaru style: Involved Instant Transmission would of course help with the speed issues, as would flight (which we are specifically noted to love, anyway.)

 

[Aranfan]

Apologies, but I haven't had time to really examine the plans closely to clearly articulate it. had a couple of very busy days. The primary impetus was agreeing with a lot of deathbybunnies logic trains prior to the vote actually opening, I don't believe I have closely examined your plan to know the actual differences and don't have time to go digging at the moment.

Click to shrink...

Considering that you rated a post I made on the dangers of slacking insightful. I don't suppose I could entice you to switch?

@Deathbybunnies having mastered a style gives us massive bonuses to making a style of our own.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

Considering that you rated a post I made on the dangers of slacking insightful. I don't suppose I could entice you to switch?

@Deathbybunnies having mastered a style gives us massive bonuses to making a style of our own.

Click to shrink...

I'm pretty sure any logic trains I was arguing for earlier would have been on the benefits/low risk of slacking.

At what point is a style considered "mastered"? (Though that's a good point.)

 

[PoptartProdigy]

I'm pretty sure any logic trains I was arguing for earlier would have been on the benefits/low risk of slacking.

At what point is a style considered "mastered"? (Though that's a good point.)

Click to shrink...

It is considered "mastered" when your level in that style is "Master."

Vote closes in two hours, everybody! Clarify your positions and make your closing arguments!

 

[Terrabrand]

Considering that you rated a post I made on the dangers of slacking insightful. I don't suppose I could entice you to switch?

@Deathbybunnies having mastered a style gives us massive bonuses to making a style of our own.

Click to shrink...

It's a good point but not good enough to convince me to switch without a more comprehensive understanding of the vote differences that I lack time to acquire by searching the thread.

 

[Sucal]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

NO SLACKING

But seriously

If the entire issue about slacking is based around the action economy then Plan Arafan could potentially give us two extra actions next turn AND ensures we have a potential bonus for preparing spirit bomb style shenanigans. By combining it with some goku style training with the family next time, it gives us a solid core to research it.

 

[Langevin]

Hi all. This has been a really interesting quest so far, and I hope I can contribute to it in my own little way.

That said, let's jump right in.

Schoolwork is important (and a cultural value) in real life because it:

• Gives you information important for being a good member of your society
• Trains you in areas that will eventually form the basis of specialized professional knowledge
• Demonstrates to authorities relevant to your future success that you can be valuable to them
• Indicates, and builds, general intelligence + diligence

Kakara is an alien princess. She is a fighter, mage, conspirator, future leader, and sometime demigod. She is comfortable with calculus at the age of ten. Her future career is pretty much set, and since that career is Alien Princess, all the skills and public opinions relevant to it rest far more on her accomplishments in the Saiyan world than those in the Masquerade.

And her parents know this, which is why her dad's spent years being frustrated with her gradual improvement in martial skills but has never once even discussed Masquerade stuff with her onscreen, or in any way we've heard of. He's discussed political judgments, public speaking, and all manner of fighting technique with her, but somehow he doesn't seem too worried that his daughter might get a B in Social Studies.

OK, so she's being observed in-Masque, but I'm guessing that has a lot more to do with safety and Masquerade-preserving than a desire that she spend all her time in the library, especially because she's already kind of coasting. Speaking of which, I think Coast might be a better name for the choice than Slack; Kakara's just going to lean on her innate intelligence and previously-acquired knowledge (e.g. calculus-level math) rather than pore over her fifth-grade schoolbooks, but she's not turning into a cigarette-chewing preteen delinquent or whatever.

I agree that not raising parental suspicions is important, but I think "I was busy training to be an alien princess and also getting ready to be one of our society's leaders and a sizeable portion of our military might during the war that's coming up in three years, sorry" is an incredibly reasonable reason, one that doesn't require a particular improvement to show them. And since we're almost certain to improve somewhere, we can attribute whatever improvement that is to focusing on Saiyan stuff over school.

I'm pretty agnostic on other stuff, so tentatively,
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies.
(Happy to be convinced on other plans.)
(Also, to confirm, the current Deathbybunnies plan is the one in this post, right?)

 

[Aranfan]

@Kairos123, @adaer , @Macros , @KaintukeeBob , @ChildishChimera , @Quest

I don't think any of you have voted yet.

Vote tally:
##### 3.19
[X] Plan KISS
[X] No
No. of votes: 1
ChildishChimera
[X] Plan Andres110
-[X] Slack (1 action): You have better things to do! Slack off on schoolwork to focus on other pursuits. Effect: Possible grade loss. You're smart and this is primary school, you have a decent chance of not dropping a grade.
-[X] Best Fit (1 action): Jaron has been brought into the Misfits, but as reclusive as he is he doesn't seem to know how to make the effort to really push into the group's dynamic. It's up to you and your friends to make him feel welcome, and this is your part in it. Effect: Do your part to make Jaron feel welcome in the group.
-[X]Nosy Little Girl (1 action): You've noticed lately that Maya has been acting...strangely. She's been giving you strange looks, and only recently stopped, starting to act a lot more comfortable around you. Maybe you're being paranoid, but you want to know what's up. Effects: Poke Maya, asking her what's up.
-[X] Train Multiform
--[X] Ask Dad for Seer assistance
-[X] Train Multiform
--[X] Ask Dad for Seer assistance
-[X] Command Training (1 action): You will be expected to lead your Clan if war comes. You may as well be good at it. Effect: Learn the art of battlefield command. Gain Leadership skill and set your starting skill level. Your mindset won't impact you as badly here.
-[X] Train With Sensei (1 action): Nothing for it but time. Effect: Grind your talent in Seer abilities. Sensei tells you that this will be gruelingly hard, and take years to master no matter how much of a prodigy you are.
-[X] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Mind Projection]
-[X] Socialize! (Fennella)
-[X] Family First (Mato)
-[X] A Scion's Duties III (1 action): You have a comprehensive knowledge of the way Clan Goku functions, a general overview of Clan Vegeta, and are an effective and renowned communicator. It's time to finish your theoretical education by completing your knowledge of Clan Vegeta and expanding your training in how to manipulate and mediate between others. Effect: Learn the art of diplomacy and Clan management at the feet of your father, improving your Communication and Intrigue skills and learning about the practical side of managing hundreds upon thousands of Saiyans who all want a fight.
-[X] Get Organized (1 action): Presently your conspiracy is more like two separate plots running in tandem; you and the Senzus, and then whatever Grandma is doing. You need to get everybody in the same room together so that you all can unify your efforts and share all available information. Effects: Figure out just what Grandma has been up to and what assets she can lend to things. Share information and work out a unified plan of action. As this involves you, Grandma, and the Senzus in the same room at the very least even before including anybody you bring in this year, this is highly treasonous and will involve an event series. The possibility of discovery does exist, although with your current precautions is fairly unlikely.
-[X] New Tricks (Telepathy)
No. of votes: 1
Andres110
[x] Plan Aranfan
[x] Maintain Grades (2 actions): You're good where you are. Let's just get the effort in to stick it out and then focus on other things. Effect: Maintain grades.
[x] Best Fit (1 action): Jaron has been brought into the Misfits, but as reclusive as he is he doesn't seem to know how to make the effort to really push into the group's dynamic. It's up to you and your friends to make him feel welcome, and this is your part in it. Effect: Do your part to make Jaron feel welcome in the group.
[x] Nosy Little Girl (1 action): You've noticed lately that Maya has been acting...strangely. She's been giving you strange looks, and only recently stopped, starting to act a lot more comfortable around you. Maybe you're being paranoid, but you want to know what's up. Effects: Poke Maya, asking her what's up.
[x] Learn Tenshinhan Style x2
[x] Train Multiform
[x] Command Training
[x] Train with Sensei
[x] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Mind Projection] (1 action)
[x] Family First
[x] A Scion's Duty III
[x] Get organized
No. of votes: 10
Aranfan, Karnax626, veekie, KnightDisciple, ElleonXan, Sucal, Cytokinesis, pianoman, Lupercal, Bakkasama
[X] Plan Chi Chi
[X] Raise Grades
[X] Power of Learning
-[X] Medicine
-[X] Quantum Physics
-[X] Rocket Science
-[X] Law
-[X] Archeology
-[X] Thermodynamics
-[X] Psychology
-[X] Accounting
-[X] Neuroscience
No. of votes: 1
Mortifer
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies
No. of votes: 9
GilliamYaeger, The king Chad, anailater, faflec, ChronOblivion, eaglejarl, Nathaniel Wolff, Terrabrand, Cariyaga
[X] Plan Ultimate Friends
-[X] Slack (1 action)
-[X] Best Fit (1 action)
-[X] Loose Lips Lead To Ultimate Power (1 action)
-[X] Nosy Little Girl (1 action)
-[X] Train Multiform
-[X] Command Training (1 action)
-[X] Train With Sensei (1 action)
-[X] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Mind Projection] (1 action)
-[X] Socialize! (1 action, may be taken multiple times)
--[X] Fenella
-[X] Family First (1 action)
-[X] A Scion's Duties III (1 action)
-[X] Get Organized (1 action)
-[X] Sound Out Sensei (1 action)
No. of votes: 1
Gore17
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies
[X] Slack (1 action)
[X] Best Fit (1 action)
[X] The Nosy Girl (1 action)
[X] Train Ki Manipulation (2 actions)
[X] Command Training (1 action)
[X] Train Specific Skill (1 action, may be taken multiple times) Multiform
[X] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Write-In Specific Technique] (1 action) Mind Projection
[X] Family First (1 action) Mato
[X] A Scion's Duties III (1 action)
[X] Get Organized (1 action)
[X] New Tricks (1 action) Telepathy
[X] The Examined Life (1 action) Driven
-[X] If we think it'll help, ask our family for their thoughts
No. of votes: 2
Deathbybunnies, Bommelom

Click to shrink...

It's a good point but not good enough to convince me to switch without a more comprehensive understanding of the vote differences that I lack time to acquire by searching the thread.

Click to shrink...

 

[Sucal]

Hi all. This has been a really interesting quest so far, and I hope I can contribute to it in my own little way.

That said, let's jump right in.

Schoolwork is important (and a cultural value) in real life because it:

• Gives you information important for being a good member of your society
• Trains you in areas that will eventually form the basis of specialized professional knowledge
• Demonstrates to authorities relevant to your future success that you can be valuable to them
• Indicates, and builds, general intelligence + diligence

Kakara is an alien princess. She is a fighter, mage, conspirator, future leader, and sometime demigod. She is comfortable with calculus at the age of ten. Her future career is pretty much set, and since that career is Alien Princess, all the skills and public opinions relevant to it rest far more on her accomplishments in the Saiyan world than those in the Masquerade.

And her parents know this, which is why her dad's spent years being frustrated with her gradual improvement in martial skills but has never once even discussed Masquerade stuff with her onscreen, or in any way we've heard of. He's discussed political judgments, public speaking, and all manner of fighting technique with her, but somehow he doesn't seem too worried that his daughter might get a B in Social Studies.

OK, so she's being observed in-Masque, but I'm guessing that has a lot more to do with safety and Masquerade-preserving than a desire that she spend all her time in the library, especially because she's already kind of coasting. Speaking of which, I think Coast might be a better name for the choice than Slack; Kakara's just going to lean on her innate intelligence and previously-acquired knowledge (e.g. calculus-level math) rather than pore over her fifth-grade schoolbooks, but she's not turning into a cigarette-chewing preteen delinquent or whatever.

I agree that not raising parental suspicions is important, but I think "I was busy training to be an alien princess and also getting ready to be one of our society's leaders and a sizeable portion of our military might during the war that's coming up in three years, sorry" is an incredibly reasonable reason, one that doesn't require a particular improvement to show them. And since we're almost certain to improve somewhere, we can attribute whatever improvement that is to focusing on Saiyan stuff over school.

I'm pretty agnostic on other stuff, so tentatively, [X] Plan Deathbybunnies. Happy to be convinced on other plans.
(Also, to confirm, the current Deathbybunnies plan is the one in this post, right?)

Click to shrink...

Coasting would be maintaining her grades and not trying to improve them, not letting them drop off

 

[PoptartProdigy]

Hi all. This has been a really interesting quest so far, and I hope I can contribute to it in my own little way.

That said, let's jump right in.

Schoolwork is important (and a cultural value) in real life because it:

• Gives you information important for being a good member of your society
• Trains you in areas that will eventually form the basis of specialized professional knowledge
• Demonstrates to authorities relevant to your future success that you can be valuable to them
• Indicates, and builds, general intelligence + diligence

Kakara is an alien princess. She is a fighter, mage, conspirator, future leader, and sometime demigod. She is comfortable with calculus at the age of ten. Her future career is pretty much set, and since that career is Alien Princess, all the skills and public opinions relevant to it rest far more on her accomplishments in the Saiyan world than those in the Masquerade.

And her parents know this, which is why her dad's spent years being frustrated with her gradual improvement in martial skills but has never once even discussed Masquerade stuff with her onscreen, or in any way we've heard of. He's discussed political judgments, public speaking, and all manner of fighting technique with her, but somehow he doesn't seem too worried that his daughter might get a B in Social Studies.

OK, so she's being observed in-Masque, but I'm guessing that has a lot more to do with safety and Masquerade-preserving than a desire that she spend all her time in the library, especially because she's already kind of coasting. Speaking of which, I think Coast might be a better name for the choice than Slack; Kakara's just going to lean on her innate intelligence and previously-acquired knowledge (e.g. calculus-level math) rather than pore over her fifth-grade schoolbooks, but she's not turning into a cigarette-chewing preteen delinquent or whatever.

I agree that not raising parental suspicions is important, but I think "I was busy training to be an alien princess and also getting ready to be one of our society's leaders and a sizeable portion of our military might during the war that's coming up in three years, sorry" is an incredibly reasonable reason, one that doesn't require a particular improvement to show them. And since we're almost certain to improve somewhere, we can attribute whatever improvement that is to focusing on Saiyan stuff over school.

I'm pretty agnostic on other stuff, so tentatively, [X] Plan Deathbybunnies. Happy to be convinced on other plans.
(Also, to confirm, the current Deathbybunnies plan is the one in this post, right?)

Click to shrink...

In fact...(and welcome aboard!)

Curiously, NetTally spits out two separate plans under "Plan Deathbybunnies" despite there being no apparent differences between them. Whatever. Merged. Here's the count:

Spoiler: "...of Transylvania?" "No."

Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Dragon Ball: After the End | Page 224 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.5

[X] Plan Deathbybunnies
[X] Slack (1 action)
[X] Best Fit (1 action)
[X] The Nosy Girl (1 action)
[X] Train Ki Manipulation (2 actions)
[X] Command Training (1 action)
[X] Train Specific Skill (1 action, may be taken multiple times) Multiform (Still keeping it a secret)
[X] Beg Sensei To Teach You [Write-In Specific Technique] (1 action) Mind Projection
[X] Family First (1 action) Mato
[X] A Scion's Duties III (1 action)
[X] Get Organized (1 action)
[X] New Tricks (1 action) Telepathy
[X] The Examined Life (1 action) Driven
-[X] If we think it'll help, ask our family for their thoughts
[X] Train Specific Skill (1 action, may be taken multiple times) Multiform
[X] Beg Sensei To Teach You [Write-In Specific Technique] (1 action) Mind Projection
[X] Family First (1 action) Mato
[X] A Scion's Duties III (1 action)
[X] Get Organized (1 action)
[X] New Tricks (1 action) Telepathy
[X] The Examined Life (1 action) Driven
-[X] If we think it'll help, ask our family for their thoughts
No. of Votes: 15
Plan: ◈Deathbybunnies
adaer
anailater
Bommelom
Cariyaga
ChildishChimera
ChronOblivion
Deathbybunnies
eaglejarl
faflec
GilliamYaeger
KaintukeeBob
Lailoken
Nathaniel Wolff
Terrabrand
The king Chad

[x] Plan Aranfan
[x] Maintain Grades (2 actions): You're good where you are. Let's just get the effort in to stick it out and then focus on other things. Effect: Maintain grades.
[x] Best Fit (1 action): Jaron has been brought into the Misfits, but as reclusive as he is he doesn't seem to know how to make the effort to really push into the group's dynamic. It's up to you and your friends to make him feel welcome, and this is your part in it. Effect: Do your part to make Jaron feel welcome in the group.
[x] Nosy Little Girl (1 action): You've noticed lately that Maya has been acting...strangely. She's been giving you strange looks, and only recently stopped, starting to act a lot more comfortable around you. Maybe you're being paranoid, but you want to know what's up. Effects: Poke Maya, asking her what's up.
[x] Learn Tenshinhan Style x2
[x] Train Multiform
[x] Command Training
[x] Train with Sensei
[x] Beg Sensei To Teach You [Mind Projection] (1 action)
[x] Family First
[x] A Scion's Duty III
[x] Get organized
No. of Votes: 13
Plan: ◈Aranfan
Aranfan
Bakkasama
Cytokinesis
ElleonXan
Gore17
Karnax626
KnightDisciple
Lupercal
pianoman
ShadowAngelBeta
strauss
Sucal
veekie

[X] Plan Chi Chi
[X] Raise Grades
[X] Power of Learning
-[X] Medicine
-[X] Quantum Physics
-[X] Rocket Science
-[X] Law
-[X] Archeology
-[X] Thermodynamics
-[X] Psychology
-[X] Accounting
-[X] Neuroscience
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Chi Chi
Mortifer

Spoiler: No-Vote Plans

[X] Plan Ultimate Friends
-[X] Slack (1 action)
-[X] Best Fit (1 action)
-[X] Loose Lips Lead To Ultimate Power (1 action)
-[X] Nosy Little Girl (1 action)
-[X] Train Multiform
-[X] Command Training (1 action)
-[X] Train With Sensei (1 action)
-[X] Beg Sensei To Teach You [Mind Projection] (1 action)
-[X] Socialize! (1 action, may be taken multiple times)
--[X] Fenella
-[X] Family First (1 action)
-[X] A Scion's Duties III (1 action)
-[X] Get Organized (1 action)
-[X] Sound Out Sensei (1 action)
No. of Votes: 0
Plan: ◈Ultimate Friends

[X] Plan Compromise
[x] Maintain Grades (2 actions)
[x] Best Fit (1 action)
[x] Nosy Little Girl (1 action)
[X] Train Ki Manipulation (2 actions)
[x] Learn Tenshinhan Style
[x] Train Multiform
[x] Command Training
[x] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Mind Projection] (1 action)
[x] Family First
[x] A Scion's Duty III
[x] Get organized
No. of Votes: 0
Plan: ◈Compromise

Total No. of Voters: 29

I hope this makes it easier for those on the fence to distinguish the winning plans.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

It is considered "mastered" when your level in that style is "Master."

Vote closes in two hours, everybody! Clarify your positions and make your closing arguments!

Click to shrink...

D'oh! I was looking at the skill levels, not the style ones.

Closing arguments? I'll link some of my earlier stuff.

Here, I proved that even if you feel that a slight chance of Kakara dropping a grade in Primary School is important, Slacking is still the correct choice in the long run:

Hang on, I just realised that even if you consider primary school grades to actually be a thing we care about (note: you really shouldn't) we should pick Slack anyway. Ironically enough, I used maths!

Let's say we want to maintain our grades over two turns. We can do this one of three ways:

1. We pick Maintain Grades twice, for 2*2=4 actions (dear god please no)
2. We pick Slack, and don't fail the relatively easy roll 1*2 = 2 actions (or 1+2 = 3 actions if we decide to Maintain Grades next turn anyway, but that's dumb because of the same maths that says it's dumb this turn)
3. We pick Slack, fail the skill check, and next turn make up for it by choosing to Raise Grades on a roll we "should almost certainly succeed." 1+3 = 4 actions

So even if we pick Slack, we end up with the same grades - and we have a better than even chance of spending an entire 2 less actions!

Also, not going to lie, if we pick Slack and fail then we can totally decide that since as future Lady we care more about Saiyan stuff than our Masque job and that Bs are perfectly acceptable grades and we won't be forced into degenerate homelessness for not getting straight As. But we'll cross that bridge when we get to it!

MATHEMATICS TRIUMPHS AGAIN!

Click to shrink...

Here, I argued that Slacking is not just the correct choice but the most in-character one:

So I think I've figured out where this disagreement is coming from, at its' core. I've been arguing that not picking slack this turn is objectively the wrong choice, and given that we can spend three actions next turn making up any errors and showing Kakara's commitment to learning, and I stand by that. But many of you have been hearing "well, I think we can metagame best in this way and damn the character!" And that's not the case, and I apologise for giving that impression.

Kakara is a social, intelligent girl who has a love of learning and doesn't like fighting. She's a quirky oddball, thinking outside the box, and she cares about Garenhulders more than most Saiyans seem to, and right now a lot of you guys think we should show this by spending more time learning.

I think differently.

Kakara is a Driven individual, who has spent the last 2 years training herself relentlessly, doing all she can to better herself. She has a Cause, from when she saw her counterpart Jaffur unjustly imprisoned, and swore herself an enemy of Dandeer Vegeta, and that she would do all she could to see him freed. She's a Pacifist, who finds herself facing an invading alien army that will attempt to bring ruin down upon all she knows and loves. She's Compassionate, and this state of affairs threatens all of innocent Garenhuld.

I've been making arguments purely in meta terms, and for that I apologise, for it was not my underlying cause for arguing this much over a single point. I think Kakara Goku is a good person, blessed with great power, who sees all she loves threatened, and I don't think she's okay with that. I think she would do anything in her power to see this, her family and friends safe, to see Jaffur freed.

You've been thinking that Kakara Goku is the sort of person who'd study in school to keep her grades. I think Kakara Goku is a good person in a terrible situation, who's going to do all she can to protect her friends and family. And if she has to blow off some schoolwork to do that, I think she will.

I only hope you think about it, and decide you think so too.

Click to shrink...

I think that Ki Manipulation is important both as a training aid and as a power boost, and will serve us well in the long run.

Since failing to convince Sensei to focus our Seer Training on Mind Projection will result in that action becoming a regular Seer Training action, I chose not to double that up.

I think The Examined Life (1 action) Driven is useful both as a possible source of bonus actions but also willpower, explicitly "the most important stat in the game" that we make background checks on extremely often.
And I think that Telepathy has a number of uses, from covert communications to contacting the

Senzus to learning Mind Delve in the future - and Kakara has noted on a number of occasions she wants to learn it. EDIT: We're also on the verge of a breakthrough in Ki Tricks, and this is a Ki Trick.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

NO SLACKING

But seriously

If the entire issue about slacking is based around the action economy then Plan Arafan could potentially give us two extra actions next turn AND ensures we have a potential bonus for preparing spirit bomb style shenanigans. By combining it with some goku style training with the family next time, it gives us a solid core to research it.

Click to shrink...

My plan does more for the action economy than his does.

Coasting would be maintaining her grades and not trying to improve them, not letting them drop off

Click to shrink...

No, coasting is exactly this - not putting any special effort into extra learning and getting by on your natural abilities and what you already know.

Remember, we're not making our character a slacker - we're focusing her intense workload from a possible grade drop in primary school onto more important things, like the war and the rebellion.

 

[Langevin]

Also, @PoptartProdigy, great quest! I just have one stumbling block I'd like to address.

In the confrontation with Lady V where she called Kakara "Vegeta", was that meant to be read as her having thought of Kakara as being "like Vegeta" all along, and just making a slip of the tongue? Because to me it read way more as her having PTSD with regard to being around angry SSJs, and Kakara triggering that. I get that Kakara might not have understood the exact details (her being a kid, and Saiyans being perhaps not the best psychologists), but it read really weirdly to me to have her assume that the utterance was based on any sort of rational cogitation, or was meant as some sort of accusation, as opposed to being the choked-out fearful cry of a battered, traumatized person who'd had really bad things happen in similar situations before.

 

[Terrabrand]

I'm pretty agnostic on other stuff, so tentatively, [X] Plan Deathbybunnies. Happy to be convinced on other plans.

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As I understand, the tally programs will not catch this, due to it not being at the start of a line.

Hmmmm... Hmmm..

[X] Plan Aranfan

I'm very conflicted but looking closely this seems very slightly overall better.

 

[Bakkasama]

So it gives us bonuses for learning Multi-Form and the Four Witches Technique. The other parts of that - IT, disruption techniques - we already know, as well as already knowing Multiform and training it. Why do we want the life-force technique when we're already Talented with the Kamehameha? All of these things the style gives us are also given by Ki Manipulation (except the FWGT), which for purposes of level-locking is already much further progressed.

Don't get me wrong, I can see the advantages to learning it when we get the Spirit Bomb. But until then, why is it a priority next turn?
EDIT: I mean we'll have to spend actions learning the FWGT anyway, right?

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We want Tienshinhan Style because Oozaru has a lot more life forcé tan normal forms. So attacks like Kikoho and Shinkikoho would be stronger tan normal as a great ape and, since we would have more life forcé, the Golden Oozaru should minimize the side effects of using them.

Between multiform, using life forcé and the taioken to disengage and make a moon it is like Tienshinhan style is designed for those who fight using Oozaru.

Even then, our style should not be entirely focused on fighting as a great ape since it is not what we would do in most fights. It should include how to fight as a great ape but it should also be effective as Kakara.

Except that we won't actually get it at sufficient level before the invasion, and even if we did, it wouldn't matter since Berra will be the one in charge.

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Excuse me but... sufficient level for what? As far as I know, skills give bonus to rolls when performed the involved technique so any training would help and, even if Berra has the overall command, as far as I know he doesn't know multiform so he can't be in several places at once. The skill would probably be used for small groups if he sends us to fight at some place other than the one he is fighting in. Plus, it would probably increase the chance of people doing what we tell them in combat and anything that gives us more control over what happens should be good, right?

 

[Lailoken]

I'll note that the training hall has apartments because there are Saiyans who live their whole lives in Saiyan form because they don't like the masque. Maintaining an active and involved human persona clearly isn't mandatory, or even expected.


Crazy idea, but, speaking of Tien, what about just using a Super-Saiyan-boosted Containment Wave to seal the whole planet inside a rice cooker until the scouts have checked out the system and decided that there's nothing there?

 

[KnightDisciple]

As I understand, the tally programs will not catch this, due to it not being at the start of a line.

Hmmmm... Hmmm..

[X] Plan Aranfan

I'm very conflicted but looking closely this seems very slightly overall better.

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Which puts us at 15/14, Bunnies/Aranfan, at this time.

Seriously, anyone having second thoughts on Deathbybunnies's plan, now's the time.

@Mortifer , any chance you'd be willing to vote for Plan Aranfan, as it's at least close-ish to your plan?

 

[Sucal]

I'll note that the training hall has apartments because there are Saiyans who live their whole lives in Saiyan form because they don't like the masque. Maintaining an active and involved human persona clearly isn't mandatory, or even expected.


Crazy idea, but, speaking of Tien, what about just using a Super-Saiyan-boosted Containment Wave to seal the whole planet inside a rice cooker until the scouts have checked out the system and decided that there's nothing there?

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How do you get out.

How do you stop the plants from dying?

 

[PoptartProdigy]

Also, @PoptartProdigy, great quest! I just have one stumbling block I'd like to address.

In the confrontation with Lady V where she called Kakara "Vegeta", was that meant to be read as her having thought of Kakara as being "like Vegeta" all along, and just making a slip of the tongue? Because to me it read way more as her having PTSD with regard to being around angry SSJs, and Kakara triggering that. I get that Kakara might not have understood the exact details (her being a kid, and Saiyans being perhaps not the best psychologists), but it read really weirdly to me to have her assume that the utterance was based on any sort of rational cogitation, or was meant as some sort of accusation, as opposed to being the choked-out fearful cry of a battered, traumatized person who'd had really bad things happen in similar situations before.

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You are correct on all points! It was a trigger. Kakara sort of gets that. She doesn't have a great understanding of it, but gets that it wasn't an accusation. The reason she responded as she did was simply because a) she already dislikes Lady Vegeta and is inclined to give her zero charity, and b) she was offended. So her response very much evolved into, "screw you, I'm not like that," as I was writing it.

 

[Langevin]

As I understand, the tally programs will not catch this, due to it not being at the start of a line.

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Thanks! Changed.

Coasting would be maintaining her grades and not trying to improve them, not letting them drop off

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Disagree. Coasting in a literal sense = not putting in additional effort, trusting in your momentum to carry you forward. This is mainly semantics, though, so whatever. I'm just trying to get across the point that human school is currently way below Kakara's ability level, and Saiyan stuff is real school for K in almost every meaningful way, including involving the virtue of hard work for meaningful improvement.

 

[Aranfan]

Damnation I am at work.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

As I understand, the tally programs will not catch this, due to it not being at the start of a line.

Hmmmm... Hmmm..

[X] Plan Aranfan

I'm very conflicted but looking closely this seems very slightly overall better.

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Oh? What about his plan do you like better than mine, then?

Damnation I am at work.

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Well that's fair, I have to leave the thread in a bit.

 

[Terrabrand]

Oh? What about his plan do you like better than mine, then?

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I don't have time to deeply analyze, the plans aren't trying to do the same thing so it's not a clear 'better efficiency' or whatever point.

 

[Lailoken]

How do you get out.

How do you stop the plants from dying?

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You leave somebody outside, or slap a timed C-4 charge on the container.

How do you keep people from starving to death inside? There's clearly some sort of stasis at work.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

I don't have time to deeply analyze, the plans aren't trying to do the same thing so it's not a clear 'better efficiency' or whatever point.

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Fair enough. My plan is trying to balance freeing Jaffur and preparing for the incoming battle, and I think it does a better job of that than his does. I argued why here:

D'oh! I was looking at the skill levels, not the style ones.

Closing arguments? I'll link some of my earlier stuff.

Here, I proved that even if you feel that a slight chance of Kakara dropping a grade in Primary School is important, Slacking is still the correct choice in the long run:


Here, I argued that Slacking is not just the correct choice but the most in-character one:


I think that Ki Manipulation is important both as a training aid and as a power boost, and will serve us well in the long run.

Since failing to convince Sensei to focus our Seer Training on Mind Projection will result in that action becoming a regular Seer Training action, I chose not to double that up.

I think The Examined Life (1 action) Driven is useful both as a possible source of bonus actions but also willpower, explicitly "the most important stat in the game" that we make background checks on extremely often.
And I think that Telepathy has a number of uses, from covert communications to contacting the

Senzus to learning Mind Delve in the future - and Kakara has noted on a number of occasions she wants to learn it. EDIT: We're also on the verge of a breakthrough in Ki Tricks, and this is a Ki Trick.


My plan does more for the action economy than his does.


No, coasting is exactly this - not putting any special effort into extra learning and getting by on your natural abilities and what you already know.

Remember, we're not making our character a slacker - we're focusing her intense workload from a possible grade drop in primary school onto more important things, like the war and the rebellion.

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