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Dragon Ball: After the End

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PoptartProdigy said:
But it's important to note that in both of the presently-leading plans, two actions, representing significant swathes of your time, are devoted to things that you probably don't want to level with your parents about (namely, "Get Organized," and, "Beg Sensei To Teach You [Mind Projection]," given that the first is openly treasonous and being so insistent about the second one would be highly suspicious). Thus, you have no real alibi for either of those. Your parents will likely point to that time and ask why you didn't use it to keep your grades up, should they slip.
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Bit of a nitpick, but they'll only point to ONE of those action's worth of time. We get an action from Multiform and we've been keeping that we got Multiform a secret, so they won't know we have as much extra time as we really do.

@Aranfan @Deathbybunnies, the reason why King Kai and Piccolo's telepathy were so good wasn't because they were magic or because they had high skill in telepathy, it's because they had antennae. Duh.

@Deathbybunnies, I will vote for your plan if you add a standard Seer training action by taking away either Nosy Girl or Ki Manipulation.

@Aranfan, I will vote for your plan if you slack and put the extra action into something other than style training.
 
Andres110 said:
Bit of a nitpick, but they'll only point to ONE of those action's worth of time. We get an action from Multiform and we've been keeping that we got Multiform a secret, so they won't know we have as much extra time as we really do.
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Oh wow, that's actually really important; it makes any failure to learn telepathy on our part seem much more likely, given that we've supposedly had less time on it.

Andres110 said:
@Aranfan @Deathbybunnies, the reason why King Kai and Piccolo's telepathy were so good wasn't because they were magic or because they had high skill in telepathy, it's because they had antennae. Duh.
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:lol:rofl:

Andres110 said:
@Deathbybunnies, I will vote for your plan if you add a standard Seer training action by taking away either Nosy Girl or Ki Manipulation.

@Aranfan, I will vote for your plan if you slack and put the extra action into something other than style training.
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Oh man, I was about to go to bed. In fact, I still am shortly.

I'm afraid I changed my plan a few times, including specifically taking away the Seer Training for Nosy Girl, and a guy voted for me because of that. I know the two plans are really close, but it would be a real jerk move to change it back now he's offline; I can't do it. Meanwhile, I won't give up Ki Manipulation, given that I'm using it not only to boost our learning of Multiform but also Telepathy, and it's an excellent overall purchase for future training and our combat prowess in general.

Meanwhile I feel pretty confident that, given the pages upon pages of debate we've had over the slacking, @Aranfan wouldn't change his mind on it if you paid him. Sorry.
 
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Andres110 said:
Telepathy is Ki Talents, not Ki Manipulation. Increasing Ki Manipulation thus will not boost our learning of Telepathy.
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Damn. I'm still not willing to give it up, but that's unfortunate. EDIT: Also note that Ki Manipulation is one of the few combat skills that we don't take a malus on learning, due to our prodigy status.
 
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Sucal said:
What's so special about thendragonboxes?

I've seen dbz complete series box sets at 300 Aus
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Having literally just googled that very question, they're a very rare set of DVDs with better quality video with none of the usual Western Censorship in place, since the Japanese company really didn't want to give it to Funimation and, as well as severely limiting the amount the could make/sell, forbade any censorship of blood etc.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
And I maintain there will be very little in the way of scrutiny....
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Huh... so even though we have WoG that lowering grades WILL bring scrutiny, you maintain that there won't be... welp, I know which side I'm on.

Sorry, that was rude. Still gonna say it, though. Might just be that I'm a bit miffed that you never answered my question of how you explain using Grandma, a highly outspoken opponent of the sealing (as well as being a member of our Conspiracy) as our excuse to hide the block of time we're devoting to the Conspiracy from our Dad.

Andres110 said:
Bit of a nitpick, but they'll only point to ONE of those action's worth of time. We get an action from Multiform and we've been keeping that we got Multiform a secret, so they won't know we have as much extra time as we really do.
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Actually, if you really want to get technical, they'll probably know about both. "Get Organized" is our A Cause trait choice. If it was our multiform choice, we'd have to do another Conspiracy choice to make up for it... which would just be another block of time we'd have to justify. And our parents already know we're learning from Sensei... if we try to hide we're there, they can just find out from him... so hiding that with the whole multiform technique seems like a bad idea... moreso since if we use the multiform technique to learn extra stuff from him he can find out and let our parents know, which loses us the advantage of having it as a secret ace in the hole technique.
 
ElleonXan said:
Huh... so even though we have WoG that lowering grades WILL bring scrutiny, you maintain that there won't be... welp, I know which side I'm on.

Sorry, that was rude. Still gonna say it, though. Might just be that I'm a bit miffed that you never answered my question of how you explain using Grandma, a highly outspoken opponent of the sealing (as well as being a member of our Conspiracy) as our excuse to hide the block of time we're devoting to the Conspiracy from our Dad.
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She's our Grandma, and outspoken opponent of the sealing or not, we've already been spending time with her. She's family! It is absolutely believable that we asked her to train us in Telepathy, and while she's argued against the sealing there's not been any hint of rebellion - she's just been talking about it, like literally every other ancestor cultist and many others. Remember, they're not expecting and not looking for outright rebellion from us - the scrutiny will be on the level of "How come you haven't put so much time into your studies? Oh, I see - you'll have to make up your grades!"

ElleonXan said:
Actually, if you really want to get technical, they'll probably know about both. "Get Organized" is our A Cause trait choice. If it was our multiform choice, we'd have to do another Conspiracy choice to make up for it... which would just be another block of time we'd have to justify. And our parents already know we're learning from Sensei... if we try to hide we're there, they can just find out from him... so hiding that with the whole multiform technique seems like a bad idea... moreso since if we use the multiform technique to learn extra stuff from him he can find out and let our parents know, which loses us the advantage of having it as a secret ace in the hole technique.
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The Multiform Technique is physically allowing us to be in more places at once (with no restrictions on which action), while A Cause is a mental determination boost to get more done during the day - there's no reason the two can't overlap.
EDIT: Think of it as A Cause making us work harder throughout the day, making each action take an eleventh of the time less, to fit a twelfth action in. Then, double up on one of those shorter actions doing something else with the multiform technique.
 
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Andres110 said:
We have WoG that they will MAYBE get suspicious IF our grades fall and PP probably didn't take into account our secrecy with Multiform.
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First off, I replied to your "Multiform Secrecy" thought, if you'd have read my whole post. That being said, I'll cop to maybe hyperbolizing. The Author said that they would LIKELY point to our blocks of time... so yeah, it's not definite... but still much more likely than the "maybe" you seem to think. And what plan specifically says that we use the multiform secrecy for one of these two blocks?

Deathbybunnies said:
She's our Grandma, and outspoken opponent of the sealing or not, we've already been spending time with her. She's family! It is absolutely believable that we asked her to train us in Telepathy, and while she's argued against the sealing there's not been any hint of rebellion - she's just been talking about it, like literally every other ancestor cultist and many others. Remember, they're not expecting and not looking for outright rebellion from us - the scrutiny will be on the level of "How come you haven't put so much time into your studies? Oh, I see - you'll have to make up your grades!"
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Once again, it's my fault for not making myself clear. But in the interest of not repeating myself, I'm going to just quote myself from earlier.
ElleonXan said:
Again, this is contingent on doing badly at learning Telepathy, but: you're known as a Ki prodigy. Your Grandmother is apparently pretty good at telepathy. If you fail to learn it after spending so much time with your grandmother, mightn't your father wonder if maybe she's trying to do something else... say sway you to admit that the sealing was wrong? I dunno, maybe I'm just paranoid, but if that's something that I can logically connect together (via what we have observed so far) then it's quite possible your "iron-clad" excuse could end up bringing the whole conspiracy down on our heads... and all with a few bad rolls.
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Deathbybunnies said:
The Multiform Technique is physically allowing us to be in more places at once (with no restrictions on which action), while A Cause is a mental determination boost to get more done during the day - there's no reason the two can't overlap.
EDIT: Think of it as A Cause making us work harder throughout the day, making each action take an eleventh of the time less, to fit a twelfth action in. Then, double up on one of those shorter actions doing something else with the multiform technique.
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Fair enough, but here we get back into narrative vs. meta... and since none of the plans specifically mention that we use the multiform to do one of these ...

...

No, you know what? I'm done. I'm tired of going back and forth on this and not getting anywhere. You win. I'm leaving the debate stage. The show's all yours.

But maybe, as a going away gift for me could you do one thing?

Stop pretending that your plan is an Inherently Superior Work of Art with No Flaws Whatsoever and just admit that there are some problems with it? Please? For me? *puppy dog eyes*

So either way though, you win this debate. Congratulations.

(And just to make clear, this doesn't mean I'm going to vote for you. I still believe Aranfan's plan is the better one.)

EDIT: Before I go, though, I want to put forward one last point on which I disagree on. This isn't to say that you're wrong, it's just to put forward my own view of how A Cause effects our actions. You likened it to a day, with A Cause being a willpower boost that allows us to complete all of our actions faster during the day so that we could get more done in that day. Respectfully, I disagree. I also believe that A Cause is a willpower boost, but believe it works a little differently. A Cause, in my opinion, would be a stirring conviction inside us that lets us forgo other actions we would otherwise be doing but that give us no gameplay advantage, like playing, resting, eating or hanging around, and channel that time to something more productive. It just seems like, to me at least, that better describes what the flavor text is getting across.
 
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Aranfan said:
Didn't you want us to do style training this year anyway? So why not just vote for me on that basis?
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While I do see the appeal of style training, I think there are better things to do than putting full three actions into style training. Better things to do with the free action include training Multiform further, learning telepathy, developing Driven with the help of our parents, developing our relationship with the heir of our house who has "connections" with another heir (and has a possibly canon omake boosting the action), or even doing more Seer training because past/present/futuresight is really useful.

DBB just does more stuff that I want us to do. It's only your emphasis on seer training that makes you compete against him in my eyes.
 
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@Kairos123, @adaer , @Macros , @KaintukeeBob , @ChildishChimera , @Quest

I don't think any of you have voted yet.

Vote tally:
##### 3.19
[X] Plan KISS
[X] No
No. of votes: 1
ChildishChimera
[X] Plan Andres110
-[X] Slack (1 action): You have better things to do! Slack off on schoolwork to focus on other pursuits. Effect: Possible grade loss. You're smart and this is primary school, you have a decent chance of not dropping a grade.
-[X] Best Fit (1 action): Jaron has been brought into the Misfits, but as reclusive as he is he doesn't seem to know how to make the effort to really push into the group's dynamic. It's up to you and your friends to make him feel welcome, and this is your part in it. Effect: Do your part to make Jaron feel welcome in the group.
-[X]Nosy Little Girl (1 action): You've noticed lately that Maya has been acting...strangely. She's been giving you strange looks, and only recently stopped, starting to act a lot more comfortable around you. Maybe you're being paranoid, but you want to know what's up. Effects: Poke Maya, asking her what's up.
-[X] Train Multiform
--[X] Ask Dad for Seer assistance
-[X] Train Multiform
--[X] Ask Dad for Seer assistance
-[X] Command Training (1 action): You will be expected to lead your Clan if war comes. You may as well be good at it. Effect: Learn the art of battlefield command. Gain Leadership skill and set your starting skill level. Your mindset won't impact you as badly here.
-[X] Train With Sensei (1 action): Nothing for it but time. Effect: Grind your talent in Seer abilities. Sensei tells you that this will be gruelingly hard, and take years to master no matter how much of a prodigy you are.
-[X] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Mind Projection]
-[X] Socialize! (Fennella)
-[X] Family First (Mato)
-[X] A Scion's Duties III (1 action): You have a comprehensive knowledge of the way Clan Goku functions, a general overview of Clan Vegeta, and are an effective and renowned communicator. It's time to finish your theoretical education by completing your knowledge of Clan Vegeta and expanding your training in how to manipulate and mediate between others. Effect: Learn the art of diplomacy and Clan management at the feet of your father, improving your Communication and Intrigue skills and learning about the practical side of managing hundreds upon thousands of Saiyans who all want a fight.
-[X] Get Organized (1 action): Presently your conspiracy is more like two separate plots running in tandem; you and the Senzus, and then whatever Grandma is doing. You need to get everybody in the same room together so that you all can unify your efforts and share all available information. Effects: Figure out just what Grandma has been up to and what assets she can lend to things. Share information and work out a unified plan of action. As this involves you, Grandma, and the Senzus in the same room at the very least even before including anybody you bring in this year, this is highly treasonous and will involve an event series. The possibility of discovery does exist, although with your current precautions is fairly unlikely.
-[X] New Tricks (Telepathy)
No. of votes: 1
Andres110
[x] Plan Aranfan
[x] Maintain Grades (2 actions): You're good where you are. Let's just get the effort in to stick it out and then focus on other things. Effect: Maintain grades.
[x] Best Fit (1 action): Jaron has been brought into the Misfits, but as reclusive as he is he doesn't seem to know how to make the effort to really push into the group's dynamic. It's up to you and your friends to make him feel welcome, and this is your part in it. Effect: Do your part to make Jaron feel welcome in the group.
[x] Nosy Little Girl (1 action): You've noticed lately that Maya has been acting...strangely. She's been giving you strange looks, and only recently stopped, starting to act a lot more comfortable around you. Maybe you're being paranoid, but you want to know what's up. Effects: Poke Maya, asking her what's up.
[x] Learn Tenshinhan Style x2
[x] Train Multiform
[x] Command Training
[x] Train with Sensei
[x] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Mind Projection] (1 action)
[x] Family First
[x] A Scion's Duty III
[x] Get organized
No. of votes: 10
Aranfan, Karnax626, veekie, KnightDisciple, ElleonXan, Sucal, Cytokinesis, pianoman, Lupercal, Bakkasama
[X] Plan Chi Chi
[X] Raise Grades
[X] Power of Learning
-[X] Medicine
-[X] Quantum Physics
-[X] Rocket Science
-[X] Law
-[X] Archeology
-[X] Thermodynamics
-[X] Psychology
-[X] Accounting
-[X] Neuroscience
No. of votes: 1
Mortifer
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies
No. of votes: 9
GilliamYaeger, The king Chad, anailater, faflec, ChronOblivion, eaglejarl, Nathaniel Wolff, Terrabrand, Cariyaga
[X] Plan Ultimate Friends
-[X] Slack (1 action)
-[X] Best Fit (1 action)
-[X] Loose Lips Lead To Ultimate Power (1 action)
-[X] Nosy Little Girl (1 action)
-[X] Train Multiform
-[X] Command Training (1 action)
-[X] Train With Sensei (1 action)
-[X] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Mind Projection] (1 action)
-[X] Socialize! (1 action, may be taken multiple times)
--[X] Fenella
-[X] Family First (1 action)
-[X] A Scion's Duties III (1 action)
-[X] Get Organized (1 action)
-[X] Sound Out Sensei (1 action)
No. of votes: 1
Gore17
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies
[X] Slack (1 action)
[X] Best Fit (1 action)
[X] The Nosy Girl (1 action)
[X] Train Ki Manipulation (2 actions)
[X] Command Training (1 action)
[X] Train Specific Skill (1 action, may be taken multiple times) Multiform
[X] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Write-In Specific Technique] (1 action) Mind Projection
[X] Family First (1 action) Mato
[X] A Scion's Duties III (1 action)
[X] Get Organized (1 action)
[X] New Tricks (1 action) Telepathy
[X] The Examined Life (1 action) Driven
-[X] If we think it'll help, ask our family for their thoughts
No. of votes: 2
Deathbybunnies, Bommelom
 
Aranfan said:
I am only putting 2 actions into style training.
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I thought you were talking in the context of removing slacking. Even so, I still judge other actions to be better than 2 actions in style training.
Training Multiform twice instead of training Style twice has a greater chance of increasing our Multiform skill, plus it doesn't run up against our combat malus as hard.
Doing Driven gives us more willpower as well as an action (willpower pushes can be used to counter Dad, especially with my cookies boosting our odds), doesn't run up against our combat malus at all, and we get bonuses to doing it from our willpower bonuses and our family.
Seer training lets us see the future, which as shown in our Great Ape training is useful for increasing our skills. This translates to bonuses to all our actions (style training and Multiform training included), has obvious applicability in combat, and doing additional seer training on top of what you already have in your plan increases the chance that we'll be able to free Jaffur soon.

EDIT: Doing Ki Manipulation instead of any style training also boosts our odds of increasing Multiform skill, increases our ability to fight, we have a slight bonus to it, and it'll help learn the techniques involved in TIen Style.
 
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Aranfan said:
We have no idea if that's true actually. Examining Driven giving us an action is pure speculation by the playerbase.
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It's not a conclusion based on nothing. It makes sense and you have to twist your thinking more to see how it can't be true than how it is. It's a good enough assumption to make that it's worth acting on it, especially since it's a Foundational Trait. Also I edited my previous post.
 
Andres110 said:
It's not a conclusion based on nothing. It makes sense and you have to twist your thinking more to see how it can't be true than how it is. It's a good enough assumption to make that it's worth acting on it, especially since it's a Foundational Trait. Also I edited my previous post.
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I think a massive willpower boost is more likely than an extra action.
 
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