Dragon Ball: After the End
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Fundamentally, having a specific Style, and being actually well-trained/versed in it, is a massive advantage in a fight.
No style is perfect, but an example is a Saiyan of the past who used high-end Krillin Style (I think?) to take on multiple newly-transformed Super Saiyan rebels.
Tien Style molded pretty well with several things we wanted and doesn't have any big weaknesses.
Also, agreed with @Akiri that we should at minimum look into Four Witches.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Remind me again just what Four Witches Technique is?
- Location
- Italy
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Yeah one of the big reasons as I recall that people wanted it is, while not the best at everything obviously, it does have a specific and unusual lack of weaknesses as such outright. Other available styles can be penalized for doing Not This Style things. Tien style not so much.
- Location
- Italy
also tien's style had some techniques that allowed us to hit over our power cap.
namely, the kikoho and shinkikoho hit harder than our PL, the Multiform (once we develop Perfect Multiform) allows us to fight 4v1 for short amounts of time, solar flare creates openings, four witches would also be very useful in melee I imagine...
We'll need to create our own style at some point though, to integrate Ki refinement, Ki overcharge and Genkidama/Spirit Saiyan... also instant transmission, actually...
though that's probably too many techniques for a single style? hard to say until we see how developing new styles works
namely, the kikoho and shinkikoho hit harder than our PL, the Multiform (once we develop Perfect Multiform) allows us to fight 4v1 for short amounts of time, solar flare creates openings, four witches would also be very useful in melee I imagine...
We'll need to create our own style at some point though, to integrate Ki refinement, Ki overcharge and Genkidama/Spirit Saiyan... also instant transmission, actually...
though that's probably too many techniques for a single style? hard to say until we see how developing new styles works
There is, as I understand it, a clear advantage in possessing great proficiency in a single style over mild proficiency in many styles, at least barring weird circumstances. So going all-in on one style is basically inevitable. There is a sunk-cost fallacy argument to be made there, but with real advantages to advancing an established proficiency, and the real cost of actions that would be spent to get a hypothetically superior style up to the point that it would be preferable to Tien, sunk-cost is only marginally applicable. Even if another style would result in greater combat ability in fewer actions from our current point, there would still be an opportunity cost during the period in which we would be missing out on Tien upgrades and the new style would be too unrefined to compete with our ability to use Tien.
I wonder if this could be somewhat offset by having a "familiarity" bonus, such that being trained in a style would grant a bonus against users of that style due to knowing how those users are going to fight. This could be broadened by assigning styles to groups, such that one would get a cumulative bonus for all styles in a group. Like, knowing a dozen different no/"tough it out" defence, pure-aggression, close-range/rushing/overwhelming styles would grant the combined total of all dozen against any one of them.
One could add to that with actions to merely study a style without learning how to perform it, which would likely be more efficient for gaining familiarity bonuses, possibly have a lower maximum bonus than actually learning the style could eventually offer, and could also provide bonuses for learning to perform the style later...
Then again, that all sounds like extra workload on keeping track of skills and bonuses, mostly just to make knowing lots of styles somewhat advantageous, which the players likely wouldn't actually make use of.
I wonder if this could be somewhat offset by having a "familiarity" bonus, such that being trained in a style would grant a bonus against users of that style due to knowing how those users are going to fight. This could be broadened by assigning styles to groups, such that one would get a cumulative bonus for all styles in a group. Like, knowing a dozen different no/"tough it out" defence, pure-aggression, close-range/rushing/overwhelming styles would grant the combined total of all dozen against any one of them.
One could add to that with actions to merely study a style without learning how to perform it, which would likely be more efficient for gaining familiarity bonuses, possibly have a lower maximum bonus than actually learning the style could eventually offer, and could also provide bonuses for learning to perform the style later...
Then again, that all sounds like extra workload on keeping track of skills and bonuses, mostly just to make knowing lots of styles somewhat advantageous, which the players likely wouldn't actually make use of.
Yeah, it'd really depend upon what "style" actually means. So far they mostly seem to be named after individual fighters. If a "style" is defined as "how an individual fighter fights", then, well, Kakara is an individual fighter, so however she fights is a style. Then again, styles may need to follow some unifying philosophy, or fit into some sort of item-limit, or not include any elements that are considered to oppose one another...
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
@PoptartProdigy can clarify but I've generally taken Style to mean a codified set of kata, forms, maneuvers, Ki techniques, and approaches to combat.
Like, "fighting styles" is a literal, real thing in the world. People learn them but also likely "tweak" them to themselves. That doesn't invalidate them being an X level master/belt of Y style.
Like, "fighting styles" is a literal, real thing in the world. People learn them but also likely "tweak" them to themselves. That doesn't invalidate them being an X level master/belt of Y style.
- Location
- Italy
from what I remember of poptart's old posts, there was some implications of
new styles can benefit from already known styles (in being made faster, in including more techniques). Similarly, they also benefit from your various skills. So, presumably, once we master Tien-style it should be, if not easy, at least easier to modify it, or make a new style based on it to include more techniques.
but yeah, we definitely don't know the limits of how much we can cram into, and with what limits. Presumably we'll have a pool of point to spend on things based on our various skills, and some kind of plus/cons selection that could give us more points to spend.
Creative Solutions
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Don't try it. The champions are going to be a cut above, and this data was more of a bonus you could take care of during your primary mission. Settle in to watch the show.
Creative Solutions
The Prince's transport fires up its thrusters and zips off, and as Bassoon tenses, you sigh. "...no, not worth it," you say.
He tenses again, nearly lunging...but then relaxes, nodding. "Probably right," he agrees. "Sorry, Snare. One of the Prince's bodyguards just landed right next to us. We can't pursue."
There's a rush of static as Snare sighs. "Damn it. All right. I'll start looking through what I found."
"We'll stay in position for now. Don't want to tip off the champion," says your host, slowly drawing further back behind cover. "Bassoon, out." He mutes his line, settling back on his heels in a crouch. "Wish we could hear what they're saying. Could get something out of this."
"I could listen in," you say. "External gifts aren't my strength, but I can at least do that."
Bassoon grunts, shaking his head. "You never know what abilities the champions have," he says. "If it isn't your specialty, don't risk it."
Dazarel stirs on the ground nearby, peering up into the sky. Then he shakes his head and lays down again.
You raise your eyebrow at him. "Yes?"
'My abilities are sealed,' he says, not opening his eyes. 'If they were not, I could listen in trivially. It is my gift.'
You hum, glancing back up into the projection of the world on the green of Bassoon's skybox. "...could you guide me through it?" You reach out with your psychic abilities to listen in on his thoughts.
Dazarel opens an eye, staring at you. Then he stands, stretching. '...theoretically. You wouldn't really gain anything from it, mind. And it would take an awful lot of trust in me.' He bares his teeth, menacing.
Deliberately so, and emptily. You can hear in his thoughts that there's no malice in it, no gain he can see from sabotaging you that would outweigh the cost of his possible destruction from the champion's retaliation. It's just for the form of it, at this point.
And besides, it leaves him open.
"Then I trust you," you say, simply.
Dazarel freezes, blinking. 'What?'
Clouds streak across the sky as though being painted on by a slashing brush. "WHAT?" booms Bassoon's voice.
"I trust you," says Kakara. "Go ahead and walk me through it."
"I DO NOT THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA!" calls Bassoon, his focus turning sharply inwards.
"Trust me on this one, Bassoon," you say, looking up into the sky. "He's not going to try anything."
'It's fine,' you say, privately. 'I can hear him thinking. He still hasn't gotten used to the idea that his defenses against that don't work anymore. I wouldn't be able to if they still did, but here we are.'
"...IT'S NOT LIKE I CAN STOP YOU," thunders Bassoon. "I'M GOING TO BE READY TO RUN AT A MOMENT'S NOTICE." Then, privately, he says, 'Be careful.'
'I will be,' you reply.
Dazarel is still staring at you, face blank. '...you're sure?' he says.
"Positive," you reply.
He slowly settles down onto his haunches, face flickering between impassivity and just a hint of bewilderment. '...then, fine. Very well. Sit down, and...I'll guide you through this.' He snorts. 'Meditate. You seem incapable of focusing any other way.'
"Exaggeration," you sigh, gracefully sinking down to sit cross-legged in the grass. "But it works."
'Focus!' he snaps, looking uneasy. 'And...reach out. Like you're listening in on somebody unshielded. I'll tell you what to do.'
The dragon talks you through the process, and it fights you at every step. It feel like falling badly, or walking sideways. You can do it, but your gift doesn't thank you for the experience.
But you can do it.
Your normal telepathy is more like listening; Dazarel's feels like actually pushing into things. With his guidance, you push. And...
Dazarel snorts. 'Wasted effort. They're as psi-blind as a child.' You feel his guiding hand withdraw, and suddenly it's just the typical eavesdropping again.
"Thank you even so, Dazarel," you say, smiling at him.
He looks away.
You turn from him and tune back into your target, searching for the mental shadow of spoken words.
"-risk," says the champion, fingers twitching at her side. "There could be anybody in that crowd."
"Yes, ma'am," says the trooper she landed next to. "We're going to keep a close eye out." He hesitated, glancing at her out of the corner of his eye. "...he'd be fine, though, right?"
The champion's head slowly turns to face him.
He snaps his gaze back over to the crowd. "Sorry, ma'am! We're watching, of course."
After a long moment, she turns away again. "He would be fine," she replies. "Normally, he'd be fine. But he's suppressing, now, just putting on a show and keeping any Namekian spies guessing."
"We'd see them, wouldn't we?" asks the soldier. "Green, six feet tall or taller? They'd stick out, here."
"And my eyes are on every tall alien down there," she replies. "But Namekians are not the only tall species out there. If you've seen the Prince's new auxiliary and his troops, you know that there are aliens even larger."
The soldier nods. "What's up with that guy, anyway?"
"He's after a particular Namekian," replies the champion. "We agreed to let him follow along with the assault."
Bassoon sighs. 'Tariq.'
"Still?" you ask.
'Apparently,' he replies. 'I guess he wasn't joking when he said his boss would have him come after me.'
You grimace. "Well, you'll be stronger than him this time."
'Still not a fight I'm looking forward to,' he replies, turning his attention back to the soldiers.
"Namekian adventurers are some of the most talented scouts and skirmishers in the galaxy," says the champion. "Even if His Highness were at full power, I would want you to remain vigilant. You'd be astonished at the places they can end up." She rolls her shoulders and turns away. "That's enough of gossip. Keep your eyes on the crowd. I'm going to get up high and maintain overwatch." She reaches over her shoulder and pulls out a rifle, rocketing up into the sky.
Bassoon settles back on his heels, continuing to watch and wait as the Prince performs for the crowd. Nothing else strikes you as significant, though. Once the crowds start to thin and security moves on with the Prince, Bassoon quietly slips away.
* * *
General Training: 35
Flute pants, kneeling on the floor. "We need...a break," he gasps, air rasping.
You chew on your lip for a moment before nodding. "Yeah, I can see that," you reply. "All right. Go ahead and relax, folks." You push down a little ember of frustration that this is coming up again.
Lyre instantly hits the deck, chest heaving. "Princess, I have never worked so hard in all my life."
Bugle groans, little wisps of smoke rising from his fingertips after all of his target practice. "My fingers feel like they're about to fall off."
You sigh, scratching at your head. "That's saiyan training. You do get used to it eventually."
They all groan, and Bassoon says, "I don't know that we want to get used to it. This is brutal. I know I'm spinning my wheels at this point. I can't keep it up."
You...can't really challenge that. Bassoon has stalled badly. "I get it. It's just...I don't understand how this is hitting you all so hard. You might not get stronger from it, but you heal better than me!"
"It's mentally exhausting," says Flute, pushing himself back to his feet. "You have us working nearly non-stop. We're not used to it!"
You slowly let out your breath. "...fair," you say. "I guess that's a culture thing." You reign in your frustration. I'm not even the most training-crazy saiyan they could have gotten. You take another breath. "I'm gonna go into Bassoon's head and keep working. I still have some energy to burn off."
They all groan in acknowledgement as you fade away. The second you rematerialize in your host's mindscape, you blast a trench into the ocean.
Training continues! Teammates are tired.
Bassoon power level 35.9M-->36.4M.
Lyre power level 35M-->36.2M.
Flute power level 43.7M-->45.3M.
Bugle power level 28.1M-->30M.
Ki Control for all increased [Competent-->Talented].
Snare fucks off and plays video games.
Kakara annoyed at culture clashes regarding training.
* * *
Improve a Skill (Dodonpa): 42
Improve a Skill (Kikoho): 44
Improve a Skill (Crowd Fighting): 37
Style Training (Tien Style): 48
Looking Abroad (Tien Style): 67
Bereft of your usual outlet, you hurl yourself into personal training.Improve a Skill (Kikoho): 44
Improve a Skill (Crowd Fighting): 37
Style Training (Tien Style): 48
Looking Abroad (Tien Style): 67
You find yourself...struggling.
It's not the least productive training you've ever engaged in, but it's not your usual pace, either. You're struggling, you can tell.
You hit the dirt again, your other forms standing over you with equal frustration on their faces.
"We can't keep struggling like this," snaps Two.
"Clearly we can," replies Four, crossing her arms. "I don't think we're learning a damn thing here."
"Well, maybe if our team hadn't cut us off-!" begins Three.
Your patience and reserve, already fraying, snaps entirely. You lunge to your feet and scream, waves of power pouring off your body. Grass rips away, earth shatters, and the world darkens in contrast as your aura blazes gold. You float above the crater left by your exertions, snarling.
ping
You whirl on the nearest signature of one of your duplicates and frame her in your fingers. "KIKOHO!" you scream, voice cracking.
The signature winks out, and you feel your power level abruptly spike.
So too do the other forms', and they rapidly recover and charge in. You hear your voice, in stereo, crying out, "Dodonpa!"
You snap your fingers to your forehead-
vip
-kick out, and she's already turning, wincing as your leg slams into her forearm-
vip
-the other flashes in behind you crying, "Dodonpa!" again, and you barely twist aside. You curse yourself even as you raise a hand to blast her. You're trying to get more into the forms of Tenshinhan Style and that was just sloppy and formless-
-before a fist crashes into the back of your skull. Only a frantic spike in your power level keeps you oriented, and you slam into the ground. The impact is strong enough to blast out another crater, overlapping with the first and blanketing the world with ash and debris as the force of the impact superheats the earth. By the time you catch yourself, you're hanging over a roiling lake of molten stone.
vip
Three pops in behind you and swings for your neck, and you feel yourself snap again. Rolling forward mid-air, you kick her in the face and tense.
vip
And, as Four transmits in, you scream, forcing your ki to pulse through your body faster, faster, harder, more-!
The world washes out glow as you go into overdrive.
Four's strike looks like it's moving through molasses. You weave to the side and punch her once. She evaporates, popping in a second under the force of the impact. You turn to Three-
vip
-just in time for her to bail, transmitting far over the horizon.
And while ordinarily, you'd have it in you to pause, and realize what she's doing -- trapping you, baiting you, just trying to keep ahead in the only means she has to keep pace now that you're at such a high level until you burn out -- but you don't have it in you right now. You snap your fingers up to your forehead and-
vip
vip
-the second you arrive, she transmits again. You waste a crucial instant as it registers that she's right behind you, whirl-
-your fists each go through one another's chest as she pushes herself into overdrive as well, and you each dissolve.
You reform amidst the fading wisps of aura, panting with fury.
You scream again, aura blasting out in all directions and stripping grass for miles. Finally, the anger starts to abate. You thread your fingers into your hair, squeezing tightly, struggling to bring your breath back under control.
'...is it safe for me to be near again?' asks Dazarel, miles and miles distant.
You sigh harshly. 'I'm not going to kill you, Dazarel. I've never fought like that against anything that wasn't my own multiform.'
'Better to be cautious, I think,' he says. 'I will take that as a yes, regardless.'
With the anger fading, you just feel tired and vaguely sick. You transmit back to him and sit down, closing your eyes.
You did not get as much as you wanted from that. Not nothing, but not as much as you were hoping.
That's been the case throughout this frustrating, tense wait.
'Not to tempt fate, but perhaps you should shift your focus,' says Dazarel. 'Not abandoning your training regime entirely, but perhaps practicing some other sphere of it.'
You swallow your first response to that and manage to nod. "...probably a good idea," you admit. Taking a deep breath, you settle yourself and muster up your Sight. You've been meaning to look back to Tenshinhan himself for a while now; might as well take the chance since you abruptly lack anything meaningful to do outside of Bassoon's head. You blink, your eyes filming over white, and cast yourself back.
Dazarel glides in to land in front of you as you do, and the last thing you see before the world fades away is him, sitting in front of you with a watchful eye on your face.
Mixed bag this month. Dodonpa and Kikoho make progress but do not tick over, although they're getting close. Missing the mark so closely doesn't help Kakara's frustration. There is good news, though. Crowd Fighting didn't improve by a lot, but you were so close that it has ticked over to Exceptional! Finally, you added 3 to the progress bar on Tenshinhan Style, and are now at 9/10. One point from your manual training, and two from Sight usage.
* * *
Months crawl by in an atmosphere of increasing tension. Unspoken between the members of your team is that if your efforts don't turn up anything substantive, you're going to have to get risky.
Which, itself, tends to justify a fair bit of risk all on its own.
You stare at the sky until your eyes ache with the need to blink as Bassoon, in rags, stands on the side of the street, the Prince walking by. 'Somewhere between 165 and 170 centimeters tall,' he remarks to you and the others. 'Definitely in Form Four. Albeit, all of them always are.'
The armored arcosian struts down the street, visibly luxuriating in the attention. And, as usual, not a scrap of skin is visible.
"It has to be Haila," says Bugle. "Taigan wouldn't bother with this charade."
"Not unless he thought he wasn't going to be able to stop you all finding out about him coming, and wanted to make sure you wouldn't instantly run once you saw it was him," you say. Bassoon swiftly relays it. The argument resumes, and you feel your attention wandering as they start arguing over bits and pieces of the Prince's appearance.
Your gaze slips to the champion wandering in the Prince's wake. Like his boss, and the other elites you've seen, he wears full-body armor, his in black but you can get a little. Bipedal, two arms, a pretty solid human shape, for as little as that means out here in the galaxy. The most notable thing about him is that he seems to be carrying a sword.
-notable.
A sword!
"Bassoon!" you say, jumping up. "Forget the Prince. Every noble has retainers, friends, servants, something. People hang around them. Maybe there's two different people the Prince could be, but what if we look at his elites? How likely do you think it is that every prince has a group of companions around him in that exact combination of shapes and sizes?"
Bassoon goes silent in the middle of a reply to Snare. After a moment, the tech specialist says, "Uh, Bassoon? You still with-?"
Your host remains utterly still as, mentally, he yells, 'SON OF A BI-!'
* * *
"I can't believe we didn't think of this already," growls Bassoon, still fuming hours later.
"We got tunnel vision," says Flute, eyes closed and a muscle in his jaw twitching. "Of course the Prince is the only one that matters. Whether we can even fight or not turns on him, if we engage with him the wrong way we bring his whole family down on our heads, and the timeline of events changes completely depending on if he personally becomes aware of our presence. Of course we got over-focused on him-!" He cuts himself off as his voice starts rising, and he takes a slow, deep breath.
Lyre pats him on the shoulder. "It'll be good, buddy."
Snare stares at his screen, hammering away at the keys so rapidly it sounds more like a little waterfall. Then, with a decisive, loud tap, he leans back. "Okay. We have two detailed descriptions. Both humanoid. One with white armor, one with black. White armor has a conventionally female body type -- for whatever that means, as many species as there are out there -- around 180 centimeters, carries a rifle. Black armor has a conventionally male body type, maybe 160, 165 centimeters, carries a sword. Accounting for the fact that each observation was taken under less than ideal conditions, and that description potentially gets me long-service retainers with four different princes. Including Haila."
The team all groan. "Of fucking course it couldn't be definitive," growls Bugle.
You express yourself out of Bassoon, folding your arms. "We need more information."
"We do," sighs Bugle, compulsively snapping his fingers to bleed off tension. Little sparks of ki leap with every snap.
Looming large over the conversation is the brick wall you've run into regarding leads on the Prince. Your latest observation has him too tall to be Haila — but depending on how that armor is designed, it might just be the boots giving him a lift. You've heard him speak — but too heavily distorted to give you anything definitive. The disguise is too well-constructed to pierce, even as close as you've dared to get.
And you're running out of time.
"Our deadline is coming soon," says Bassoon. "We need information now or we're going to be forced into a corner."
Bugle nods, snapping his fingers again. "Then fuck it. Let's go loud. If we choose a time when the Prince is otherwise occupied, we're powerful enough to draw out the elites. We'd get close looks at them and we'd see how they fight. That's the best information we could ask for. I'm confident that we could extract if we needed to."
"Are you nuts?!" asks Lyre. "It's seconds at best for the Prince to respond to that, no matter how busy he gets. We'd get stamped out like bugs! No, we need to be careful. Snare can get us enough information if we can get him access to the right security systems. Those elites get out and about plenty."
"If," replies Bugle. "If we get the right access, if we get it fast enough. Take too long and we're taking the risk anyway! Might as well control the risk. Put me in a suit and I can fire off enough beams at the fleet from extreme range to force the Prince to play defense while you all wrap up on the planet."
"Hold on, we're forgetting something," says Bassoon. He turns to you. "Kakara? Can you scry enough of the elites to resolve this for us?"
You mean back, cupping your chin in your hands. "…maybe," you say, tail lashing. "Ordinarily yeah, but I've been running my sight hard lately. It'll be an effort. Easier if I can get close to the them, but we'd be talking really close. Close enough to touch. I don't know if we can keep it subtle." You grimace at the sudden silence, punctuated by the thrum of the ship's engines. "Even if we don't do that, I should at least try. But I can't guarantee I can hold focus long enough to get everything we need." You glance at Snare. "How much information would you need to narrow it down?"
He cracks his fingers and brings up four different lists of names and pictures, side-by-side. "We can drop these two because we know it's either Taigan or Haila just from their aura." He flicks two lists away with his fingers. "Confirm three human males and it's Taigan. Confirm any arcosians and it's Haila. Confirm more women than men, it's Taigan, but if you can do that you have a full count, and if it's over a dozen then it's Haila." He swipes the lists down out of sight, his wrist snapping with barely-restrained annoyance. "That's what I'd like to say, but these are each months out of date. Realistically I'd need to get enough information to identify a group from their core cadre, the ones the princes keep around long-term. So, Kakara, we're gonna need a lot. Start searching. I'll tell you when we get there."
The debate resumes, and your run at your chin, thinking deeply.
There is one other option. If you were to manifest, burst to full power, and search swiftly, you could do a circuit of all the elites before anybody could respond. The prince is keeping himself suppressed. If you were intent on attacking him, that would present a potentially fatal vulnerability, but here it would mean you'd be done and back under cover before he could react.
But there'd be no way to hide it. Their fleet's sensors would pick you up, and they would know that somebody of your strength had just buzzed them. You can't predict their exact reaction to that, but it would almost certainly be something drastic to reassert their control.
But, with the deadline so pressing…well. Sometimes you need to take risks. Is this one of them?
No dice on the Prince, but you've had a brainwave that looking at his entourage might give you the information you need. How do you want to approach this?
[ ] Bugle's plan. Force the Prince to defend his fleet, then engage the elite and rely on the team's skills to get clear afterwards. Fast, and it would get you the information you need, but if things go wrong, they go wrong fast.
[ ] Lyre's plan. Focus on helping Snare hack public surveillance cameras to get enough information on the elites to identify them. Much slower. If you can't get it done on time, you're bumping up against your deadline.
[ ] Bassoon's plan. Use scrying to divine the information you need directly. You'll need to find a way to get close undetected, but if you succeed, you'll have everything you need. If you fail, Bassoon is in very close quarters with a powerful enemy, and the team needs to act fast to avoid being compromised. Potentially, they'd face the unpleasant dilemma of carrying a prisoner in hostile territory. If this option is not chosen, Kakara will attempt scrying in the blind for the information before anything else. DC of 50, rolled flat, to get enough to identify the Prince.
[ ] Your plan. Personally go out and get those descriptions. You will succeed, and the enemy will know that somebody of your strength just buzzed their elites.
MANUAL MORATORIUM. APPROVAL VOTING. WRITE-INS PERMITTED.
Heya, y'all! It's been busy! Change in job duties, several company shakeups, I have a kid now, and honestly I haven't had spoons to write in quite some time. But it's not over until I hit the bell. I've got the spoons now, and I hope you enjoy the update! See you around the thread!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Great to see this story return. Thank you so much @PoptartProdigy . And congrats on the kid! Also, lesser congrats on making it through so much other stuff.
Given the bolded text in Bassoon's plan, I like Lyre's plan best as it securely leaves the Prince ignorant to what the Namekians have available.
By the same token, I would like to avoid Kakara's plan. Even if I think it has the best chance of zero casualties after Lyre's.
Given the bolded text in Bassoon's plan, I like Lyre's plan best as it securely leaves the Prince ignorant to what the Namekians have available.
By the same token, I would like to avoid Kakara's plan. Even if I think it has the best chance of zero casualties after Lyre's.
Hmmm....no easy pick, thats for sure.
They all have their pros and cons, but I'm inclined to either Lyres plan or Kakaras. For the former, it may pay off to not panic and go at this carefully. Even with an impending deadline, approaching this carefully like Lyre suggests seems the most likely to get what we want without revealing ourselves to our opponents. However, if we're willing to take risks then we might as well just have Kakara go out and find those elites. They'll know someone very strong just buzzed them, yes. However, with the identity of the elites in hand we'll know which prince this is and, in turn, know whether New Namek should stand its ground, or book it.
They all have their pros and cons, but I'm inclined to either Lyres plan or Kakaras. For the former, it may pay off to not panic and go at this carefully. Even with an impending deadline, approaching this carefully like Lyre suggests seems the most likely to get what we want without revealing ourselves to our opponents. However, if we're willing to take risks then we might as well just have Kakara go out and find those elites. They'll know someone very strong just buzzed them, yes. However, with the identity of the elites in hand we'll know which prince this is and, in turn, know whether New Namek should stand its ground, or book it.
I'm inclined towards Kakara's plan, since I don't think it would make much difference for our purposes if they know someone really strong is scoping them out. However, if they freak out badly enough, there are a lot innocent people around who could easily get hurt. So, I think I prefer Bugle's. It does does mean our people are at serious risk, but at least they've all accepted that risk.
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
Wow, I was just thinking about this thread this week! Didn't wind up posting my draft, because I was pretty sure I'd said everything already. Still, cool coincidence.
Oh, and the External Training we should do next time is technique training. Specifically, we should share Instant Transmission, which is massively useful for scouts and skirmishers, and not reliant on insane physical training.
Doesn't the Arcosan Blockade Fleet hate the New Cold Empire? I think Tariq might be planning to betray them, at least as far as sparing Bassoon.
Just a hunch, but I think we should instead try scrying for New Enemies. The New Cold Empire is the obvious interpretation of that, and all the hosts would have plothooks and useful resources - in this case, probably meaning leverage on the invasion fleet.
Oh, and the External Training we should do next time is technique training. Specifically, we should share Instant Transmission, which is massively useful for scouts and skirmishers, and not reliant on insane physical training.
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HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
Darn shame they don't know Instant Transmission yet. That would help enormously.
- Location
- Italy
So next turn we could (hopefully) rank up dodonpa, kikoho and Tien style at least.
...I can't wait for the chance to train again under the katchin dome and maybe hopefully reach for ssj2...
We could have thought of it earlier... Still, we're still in time.
Keep in mind it's one of the most difficult techniques the exiles have.
Karara is doing very complicated math in her head. Goku had a more "instinctive" version, I think.
I suppose we might as well check if any of the Namekians is especially talented/suited to it, but I don't have much hope.
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
I don't think that entirely matters? It's far more suited to their talents (no zenkais mean they need less physically intensive training routines) and chosen roles in life (teleportation is invaluable for an adventurer/scout-skirmisher-saboteur) than "just Lift until you can beat up ki mutants".
I think Bugle's plan is the best, if we can make sure both groups have Instant Transmission. And we should see if we can hack together some kind of telepathic technique for transmitting the skill at it. Even if it boils down to "send a multiform to Flute's mindscape".
We should be doing a lot more experimenting with how the host bond thing works, by the way.
- Location
- Italy
no zenkai makes a differnce for power level training. But they also complained about mental fatigue, and if there's mentally tiring technique to learn that would probably be Instant Transmission most of any we know.
Well, Spirit Bomb/Genkidama is obviously harder, but it's a different kind of difficulty.
and having them learn the technique in days is just unrealistic. It took Goku a year, and even if the exiles have perfected and improved training methods, I'd expect them to take weeks at the very least.
We also can't just move to other people's mindscapes! I think the implication was we can only do this with mages, though I might remember wrong, and in any case to move to their mindscape we'd probably have to leave this one.
...that said, we CAN materialize for shortish periods of times, so we might be able to leave a multiform with them to teleport them? But I think there was a max distance between multiform...
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
It took him about a year to get interstellar teleporting, which is apparently an Elite talent. This quest ranks it about even with Kaio-Ken in difficulty, which took him less than six months while at a way lower subjective time ratio than this quest's speed/powerlevel link gives our crew.
Have we tried? It might take manifestation time, I guess, but we were going to Jaffur's mindscape no problem from our own body.
And I'm reasonably certain Lapis isn't a mage, unless she wished herself that way. I guess we could be going to Buu?
Speaking of which, we won't have to run or reveal Saiyans if we can, just, go recruit Buu for this. So on the subject of escaping tunnel vision...
[X] Go visit Lapis and Lazuli. Scouting with Bassoon isn't actually your comparative advantage; diplomacy is.
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- Location
- Italy
If I understood it correctly, distance just doesn't matter. Skill with IT regards the ability to reliably teleport, and most importantly the speed and how much concentration it takes.
There's a big difference between "take a few minutes of concentration to teleport" and "it takes a fraction of a second, to the point you can do it out of combat".
ah, also I don't think that interstellar teleporting is an elite talent? From what I understand distance doesn't matter. I think the limiting factor is simply that you can only feel really strong ki sources that far away, so usually you just don't have a "beacon" to teleport to.
this is the WORST moment for that.
It's not necessarily a bad idea to try and reach out to Lapis, Lazuli and Buu. But we should FIRST finish with this mission, as there was an heavy implication that reaching out to them would require leaving Basson for a bit. We could leave while he's traveling back to Namek on his ship, maybe. That would likely take weeks, weeks we could use with the Androids.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I'll add it to the character sheet; at the moment you are somewhat tethered to Bassoon. You can project out quite some distance, and physically go as far as you can during manifestation time, but those are both temporary, and you snap back to Bassoon when time expires. If there's a way to wholesale jump hosts, you've not found it yet.