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Still though, shoving enough energy into him so his non existence can no longer not exist is a valid strategy, though I'm gonna say it would require a obscene amount of it.

There's also gaining enough power to effectively neuter his effect on reality.

Or going into high concept stuff and logic bombing him with ayin. Or just transcending the binary of existence-non existence. Which is also high concept.

There also might be something within his backstory.
 
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1)If you're replying to things I had in spoiler, please spoiler them yourself. Poptart can get pretty mad about rp things not be spoiled.

2) You're COMPLETELY missing the point.

ssj4 has been stated by the qm to work differently from canon because GT IS NOT CANON, and so they decided to take the concept and possibly adapt it in a way they like.

The manga is NOT canon to the quest, and the anime has never shown anyone other than a god of destruction using hakai. Even that doesn't matter, because THE QM said that hakai can't be learnt. end of question

IN THE ANIME it seems like the power of the god form doesn't really depend much on what transformations you managed to get before the blue form. We have no idea IF and HOW blue would interact with ssj4, so you can't assume anything for now.

I might be wrong about ultra instinct not being suited to Kakara, but in the end we know absolutely NOTHING about how it would work in terms of quest mechanics. in The anime it also seems like UI basically IGNORES other transformations, so I wouldn't say that goku uses it in Base form, but more that it basically overwrites/supercedes his transformation.

Also you talk about "fully mastered god form", except... we have NO IDEA if there is actually such a thing as a "mastered" form for it. For all we know the god form completely removes the caps in this system, so it's technically without an upper limit. Or maybe there's an even higher form that nobody in canon achieved. We just don't know.


and again, we have NO IDEA how all those different forms and techniques would interact within this quest. and if you're going to quote canon

1) poptart's opinion matters more than canon here.

2) canon never shows any of the 3 things you mention (god form, ssj4 (which is NOT CANON anyway) and Ultra instinct) used at the same time. They might just be not compatible with each other for all we know.

The potara fusion only lasted 5 minutes due to the sheer power of Goku and Vegeta. While no time is stated, the inferior fusion dance would last a even shorter time.
that might or might not be true here. Maybe to lenghten the duration of a more powerfull fusion we need an higher skill in the fusion dance. Maybe an elite talent could fix the lesser duration. We just don't know, and won't know until we get both to try.

Even then, just a minute with such high power might very well be enough as long as we immediately go all in and don't joke around like Gotenks and Vegito tend to do.
wished back Goku(if possible)
not possible. mentioned multiple times.

IF they can work together. I hope so, but we need to unlock them both to actually try.

1) I'm going to assume it functions the same way as GT since most of the other forms function the same way. For those of you that haven't watched GT it's basically a different branch of transformation, it's only called Ssj4 because it's the forth form Goku's managed to manifest even though it has nothing to do with the other transformations. It's described as a condensed more powerful version of Golden Oozaru and its side affects include making Saiyans more aggressive(Extremely aggressive in some cases), while also giving them a massive boost to all parameters with little to no drain.
This has already been talked about multiple times, but the short version is that while Poptart might introduce the ssj4 concept, they have not revealed HOW it will work, and it's completely possible that it won't work like in GT.

It might be a new base form, with the power of the oozaru but the size of a normal saiyan. It might be an ACTUAL ssj4, as in "it requires ssj3/Golden oozaru grade 3 to actually get it", or it might be something else entirely. We don't know, and we won't know until we get it IF we get it.

2) wouldn't Kachin work as a possible substitute though? I'm just suggesting it since it has such high praise.
IT's possible, but I don't think so. Katchin blocks ki because it's a very dense material, but enough Ki would likely go through it, and we just don't know what's the exact limit. For comparison Kakara hid her pl while training with Maya simply by digging deep enough into the ground ( I think she was limiting herself to a few hundreds/thousands. Katchin is better, and We KNOW it can at the very least hide more than 1 billion... but god ki? That would likely go through it, and we have no way to actually test it safely.

3) Maybe we could schedule a trip to hell after attaining Ssj4 doubt there's anything as power as Shin Shenran or Omega Shenran there.
GT is not canon to the quest. We're considering the idea of trying to go to heaven through hell if/when we get both perfect multiform and ssj2. We also hope to be able to charge spirit saiyan before entering, though we're not sure how long we'd be in there and there's a very good chance spirit saiyan might just run out before we're done, simply making us more visible to potential hostiles.

Fusion Dance was Retconned, now it has no drain. What that means is if Vegito last 5 minutes with strain Fusion Dance has no Strain. That means they can last the whole 30 minutes while Vegito can last 15 minutes from the strain, the pay off is the chance of fucking up and becoming weak shit meaning it's a high risk high reward type of gamble. So like, Vegito no roll or training needed but 15 minutes time limit while Gogeta needs training and rolls but 30 minutes time limit.
I really hope it will work like that, but again we'll need to test it in game to be sure of the duration. And if we don't get to test it before whatever battle we use it in then we go all out from the start and make every second count.
spoil the spoilery bits please.

overwhelm him with power is certainly possible, but remember that BEERUS doesn't have enough raw power. ssj god Gohan didn't have enough power. That should worry you, especially as we can't exactly train as openly as the z-warriors of old did, or at least not yet.

Conceptual effects are mostly a magic thing, so they'd be Jaffur's thing. Still something to work for though, at least for him.

No idea what you mean by "logic bombing him with ayin" and "transcending the binary of SPOILER-SPOILER". what does that even mean?
 
I already agreed above to the fact that canon has been overwritten multiple times, rendering my point moot. Most of what you said can be boiled down to "it's different here" or "it could be different", which fair enough.

Mastered Super saiyan is something vegeta did in the manga.

Surpassing Beerus wouldn't be all too hard (relatively speaking) given the ample amount of material. Significant amount of canon would need to be altered, especially since Goku is already well on his way to permanently surpassing Beerus in super.

Too lazy to explain, but imagine if non existence is a 0 in binary code, and existence is 1, ayin is no code at all. Transcending binary is anything that holds irrelevant of its state of existence or lack thereof. Ergo boundary.
 
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Mastered Super saiyan is something vegeta did in the manga.
This one I knew ( I follow the manga too), it's just that manga and anime are not compatible in a few details, and poptart chose the anime.

This means that if something is manga exclusive (like Goku using hakai), it's not canon to the quest.
Surpassing Beerus wouldn't be all too hard (relatively speaking) given the ample amount of material. Significant amount of canon would need to be altered, especially since Goku is already well on his way to permanently surpassing Beerus in super.

It all depends on how those powers interacts.

Also consider that Beerus actually KNOWS ultra instinct, even if didn't have it mastered by the tournament of power, and it's been a few centuries since then, and he has been training.

He is likely much stronger now.

This isn't to say that surpassing him is impossible, but I think you're underestimating the challenge


Too lazy to explain, but imagine if non existence is a 0 in binary code, and existence is 1, ayin is no code at all. Transcending binary is anything that holds irrelevant of its state of existence or lack thereof. Ergo boundary.

The
existence/non existence transcendence
concept is potentially interesting, but as it's never shown in the anime or hinted in the quest it might simply be something impossible/unrelated to the setting.
 
Hum. The reason for that is that knowledge was actively destroyed by a number of factors throughout history. Unless there was something along those lines, I don't think that line of reasoning quite works. This is further exacerbated by the extreme significance attached to the God form, and the shorter 300 year time frame compared to how Damascus was lost.

I'm going to assume that there's a good reason why we can't just "lol seer" the God form, and given that as I've further read, there's scenes where seering can be blocked, I'm guessing that.

We could always ask Gohan tho
Well...in this case the bottleneck is a bunch of people sprinting for evacuation ship's on an hour's notice and carrying whatever they happened to think was important to bring, with everything else being destroyed by Gohan self-destructing. I think that's fairly, "Along those lines."

The good reason is that people have tried and there's something happening beyond the physical that they can't really get just from looking at it. They're not sure what it is.
Ahhh, validation is so sweet. Especially when I had such a devil of a time figuring out what was supposed to happen in it.

Yes, on reread I noticed that was questionable, but here's my supporting evidence:

Which one can read, with your new confirmation, as "Jaron was mad that he didn't get to fight", but more naturally reads as "Jaron was mad that he didn't get to be part of the Genki Dama, and didn't know that it was because of Jaffur."
So I can delete the sentence that references it, but it might be good to rephrase the quoted section.
(EDIT: Edited. And then on later thought reverted, with 'ki' changed to 'help'. No conflict now.)
Canonized! Bonus to Jaron managing to [???]

;)
Ssj4 is explicitly said to be able to be gained once you reach a high enough power level, and gain control over a golden ozaru. The MC has already achieved the latter.

In a general sense, a fully mastered God Form combined with the super saiyan 1 transformation allows one to equal Beerus. Getting bogged down in what caps are and the whatnot is irrelevant, I am using Beerus as a point of reference.

Ultra instinct is gained through fully submerging yourself within your instinct. I suspect the MC will easily be able to access this (at least compared to other options), given her instinctive grasp of ki, and self reflecting nature.

Ah where is it....

Ah here: Google Image Result for https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCh1LcqXgAAL3d_.jpg

Learning hakai is possible. Linking it to the domain explanation, while they do gain domains over aspects of existence, mortals can still do things that fall under those domains. We just need to mimic its most fundamental expression.

As for raw power, a mastered God Form + super saiyan 4 would be able to defeat Beerus in a single hit. Throwing in ultra instinct, which is such a boost that it lets base Goku equal Beerus when mastered, makes Beerus a rounding error.

Them being legit nonexistent is new, though given the sheer amount of ki we would be throwing around, I'm sure we would smooth it over.

Existence doesn't hard counter non existence, they're a binary and equals. To hard counter you need to transcend. Or just reduce him to ayin.

Thatd be neat, though I can't think of anything that can do that in DB.

Edit:
The potara fusion only lasted 5 minutes due to the sheer power of Goku and Vegeta. While no time is stated, the inferior fusion dance would last a even shorter time.

A double fusion would only exacerbate the time issue.
Please always do spoiler information sourced from the RP, per the spoiler policy on the front page. Could you edit this, please?
 
Fixed.

It would still be in their memory, and they would actively prioritize passing that on, along with writing it down.

As for them seeing the ritual and not understanding the pure heart bit, it's explained right before the ritual starts that pure heart is required.

This one I knew ( I follow the manga too), it's just that manga and anime are not compatible in a few details, and poptart chose the anime.

This means that if something is manga exclusive (like Goku using hakai), it's not canon to the quest.


It all depends on how those powers interacts.

Also consider that Beerus actually KNOWS ultra instinct, even if didn't have it mastered by the tournament of power, and it's been a few centuries since then, and he has been training.

He is likely much stronger now.

This isn't to say that surpassing him is impossible, but I think you're underestimating the challenge




The
existence/non existence transcendence
concept is potentially interesting, but as it's never shown in the anime or hinted in the quest it might simply be something impossible/unrelated to the setting.

DB operates off of the multiverse theory, making everything officially released, canon (see xenoverse, heroes, shin budokai, and general statements from akira Toriyama). Goku in the anime can pick up hakai if he puts in the effort, he simply just doesn't. A alternative timeline version of him (the manga) does. Ditto for ss4.

Beerus does know ultra instinct, but he hasn't mastered it. Whis has been training him for millions of years, I'm fairly sure 300 wouldn't make much of a difference in his power level.

Given that gods are associated with concepts, any concept that holds regardless of existence or not, would do this. These existing isn't a matter of "oh it was it mentioned in the quest?", it's a matter of metaphysics.

Unless the author decides to start docking metaphysics as well. Which may be possible.
 
You know, it might be interesting to take a closer look at exactly how ki functions. I recall Poptart saying that one implementation idea for PM wouldn't work as it failed to work with their model of ki - so we wouldn't be asking poor Poptart to create a whole system from nothing. If we knew how ki actually functioned at a base level, we'd be much better positioned to both implement new methods of using (Ki Refinement, Overdrive, etc.) and also to come up with novel ways of interacting with the system to create our own techniques.

It'd fit in well with Kakara's acknowledged "Ki Prodigy" trait too.
 
DB operates off of the multiverse theory, making everything officially released, canon (see xenoverse, heroes, shin budokai, and general statements from akira Toriyama). Goku in the anime can pick up hakai if he puts in the effort, he simply just doesn't. A alternative timeline version of him (the manga) does. Ditto for ss4.
I'm not arguing about if Goku can learn hakai in the anime or not. He can in the manga. He might or might not in the anime, and we won't know until he actually tries and manages to do it.

HERE, Goku can't use Hakai. Nobody Except a God of Destruction can use Hakai. That's what Poptart said, so that's how it is. It's as simple as that.

Same for SSJ4. IN THIS QUEST, it's possible that it might work differently. Poptart hasn't said yet, and while we have some hints from the rp there are NO certainties.


TO THIS QUEST Xenoverse 1 is more or less canon, but mostly limited in effects to the RP. shin budokai/heroes are not canon unless Poptart explicitely states they are.


As you can read in the introduction, FOR THIS QUEST ONLY:

This takes takes as canon the full runs of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball Super, any movies that contradict none of the above/are sufficiently cool for me not to care (except for the Hirudegarn movie, which is not canon in this continuity), and very carefully selected redeemable concepts from Dragon Ball GT. I am also changing "Super Saiyan God" to "Saiyan God" and "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" to "Super Saiyan God," for reasons that should be bloody obvious. Everybody enjoy, but before you do:


As for them seeing the ritual and not understanding the pure heart bit, it's explained right before the ritual starts that pure heart is required.
I think that statement implies there's something MORE to it.

Maybe ( IN THIS QUEST) there's some other reuqirement the seer don't understand. Or maybe one or more gods are actually stopping them from understanding.

Once we actually find a way to use the forms without getting the Enemy's attention we can use a vision and try ourselves, and maybe we'll better understand what the problem actually is.
 
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You know, it might be interesting to take a closer look at exactly how ki functions. I recall Poptart saying that one implementation idea for PM wouldn't work as it failed to work with their model of ki - so we wouldn't be asking poor Poptart to create a whole system from nothing. If we knew how ki actually functioned at a base level, we'd be much better positioned to both implement new methods of using (Ki Refinement, Overdrive, etc.) and also to come up with novel ways of interacting with the system to create our own techniques.

It'd fit in well with Kakara's acknowledged "Ki Prodigy" trait too.

Would that be a study action or a Seer 'How does KI operate?' vision?
 
All your points boil down to "but what if its different in this quest". I've already agreed to that when chuck pointed it out, but I'm assuming canon applies by default, until stated otherwise, to spitball ideas.

Hence why super saiyan 4 should be fairly easy to gain, relatively speaking. And the same for the rest of my points. (Besides hakai)

Of course the author has ultimate authority on how these work, you don't need to tell me that multiple times over when I've already acknowledged it.
 
Would that be a study action or a Seer 'How does KI operate?' vision?
Probably a study action. It's also something that would probably be easier at home with access to all the studies that have no doubt be done on this exact subject.

All your points boil down to "but what if its different in this quest". I've already agreed to that when chuck pointed it out, but I'm assuming canon applies by default, until stated otherwise, to spitball ideas.

Hence why super saiyan 4 should be fairly easy to gain, relatively speaking. And the same for the rest of my points. (Besides hakai)

Of course the author has ultimate authority on how these work, you don't need to tell me that multiple times over when I've already acknowledged it.
I think they're repeating it since you don't appear to have internalised it at all - SSJ4 is not probably fairly easy to gain when we don't know what form it exists in in this quest, if at all. Or at least, your weighting of the likelihoods is skewed towards non-canon stuff being made canon when it shouldn't be.
 
Given that GT elements have already been introduced, and the general cosmology introduced in super, the movies, and statements by akira mean that ss4 is easy to gain, relatively speaking*. Barring canon alteration, which I've acknowledged can happen, meaning all my ideas are spitballs. As is literally everything else suggested to get stronger beyond God form, going by "it might be different than canon" logic.

*as in it not requiring 5 fellow pure hearted saiyans + such a absurd amount of wards that it boggles the mind so as to not gain the attention of the enemy automatically. Like the God form

Just requires some rather good wards, sealing your power in some manner, and then training up your base power enough to meet the second requirement. Said training would take years of dedication though, which is rather difficult if you consider it from that angle.
 
Given that GT elements have already been introduced, and the general cosmology introduced in super, the movies, and statements by akira mean that ss4 is easy to gain, relatively speaking*. Barring canon alteration, which I've acknowledged can happen, meaning all my ideas are spitballs. As is literally everything else suggested to get stronger beyond God form, going by "it might be different than canon" logic.

*as in it not requiring 5 fellow pure hearted saiyans + such a absurd amount of wards that it boggles the mind so as to not gain the attention of the enemy automatically. Like the God form

Just requires some rather good wards, sealing your power in some manner, and then training up your base power enough to meet the second requirement. Said training would take years of dedication though, which is rather difficult if you consider it from that angle.
In the case of GT especially, Poptart has explicitly said that they will be picking and choosing what they want to take from it. The existence of Golden Oozaru should by no means be considered evidence that SSJ4 will exist, or even that it is more likely to exist.
 
Golden oozaru is a precursor to super saiyan 4, and super saiyan 4 is acknowledged as canon, though under "a alternate timeline" kind of logic.

You are right that ultimately we don't know what the author will pick and choose, I acknowledge this and note that my ideas are spitballs, but I do think ss4 can be achieved in this quest, given pop tarts statements about what they draws from for this quest. Also Kakara giving some pondering at how oozaru can go even further.

There's also the fact that ss4 is generally considered one of the more redeemable concepts from GT by the fandom.
 
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Golden oozaru is a precursor to super saiyan 4, and super saiyan 4 is acknowledged as canon, though under "a alternate timeline" kind of logic.

You are right that ultimately we don't know what the author will pick and choose, I acknowledge this and note that my ideas are spitballs, but I do think ss4 can be achieved in this quest, given pop tarts statements about what he draws from for this quest. Also Kakara giving some pondering at how oozaru can go even further.

There's also the fact that ss4 is generally considered one of the more redeemable concepts from GT by the fandom.

I agree about the SSJ4 being achievable here, based on what we know, but I wouldn't be altogether surprised if it wasn't.

Poptart prefers they.
 
It would still be in their memory, and they would actively prioritize passing that on, along with writing it down.

As for them seeing the ritual and not understanding the pure heart bit, it's explained right before the ritual starts that pure heart is required.
Okay, but why would it be in their memory? When in Super does anybody discuss the ritual? When do they use it on anybody but Goku despite being in constant existential peril? When do they record the mechanics? It's important and potent, yes, but since when has that ever caused the Z Fighters to prioritize the proliferation of knowledge?

And if I meant the pure heart thing, I would've said it.
 
Oh it's the language gap, maybe. Hmm. Learn Japanese from someone then seer the ritual? Or just seer the ritual first, lock the memory in place, to first learn the problems with it, instead of me assuming.

I do remember Goten, and a couple others discussing it a few times. And Vegeta picking it up during the Broly movie.

Reason they didn't use it during the Freiza electric boogaloo 3 arc was cuz Vegeta already picked up his own God Form. Why Gohan never did... I have no clue. Seems like pis.

Goten and Trunks simply weren't relevant.
 
Canon Omake: Majin Vegeta
This omake is set from the perspective of Vegeta during Babidi's attempt to control him, and his subsequent actions under said mind control. This was not a nice version of Vegeta and this was hard to write, what with the mass ending of life that Vegeta commits. If you are okay with reading this from the perspective of the killer, then you may continue. But you have been warned.

Majin Vegeta

As you stand within the confines of this excuse of a ship, arms crossed as you typically are, you feel the splitting pain of a massive headache as someone enters your mind. As you grunt and groan, you grab onto your head and let out pained sounds in your discomfort.

You feel the prodding inside your mind, an internal attack from that freak, Babibi. The agony is unrelenting, hitting at the very fiber of your being, within even your soul.

"Vegeta, hey, what's wrong?!" Kakarot's eldest demands of you.

You can't answer him, you let out a scream of pain as you grab onto your head again, desperately trying to fight it with everything you have. It is one of the most agonizing things you have ever felt. Flashes and visions of your past circle in your mind.

"Vegeta, what's going on?" Kakarot questions you.

"Somethings… Attacking me!"

"Where!? We can't see anything!" He declares.

"Inside!" You manage to let out through the pain.

You continue to scream, and Babidi continues his attack. He's not letting up, and you never could have prepared for this. You had thought most of what he was now using against you was gone.

"Fight it! Resist!" Supreme Kai begs of you.

"I can't!"

"You must!" He begs once more.

You only continue to scream, fighting this with everything in your power. You think of Trunks and Bulma. Those who you'd never admit to it, but. . .

"That's it! Resist!"

You continue to scream, powering up and transforming, bathing the inside of the vessel with a familiar golden glow. Even with the power of Super Saiyan, Babidi still invades your mind and seeks control over you.

"Don't let him win Vegeta! Don't let him do it! That's it! Fight! Fight it!" The insufferable…. He keeps encouraging you.

You writhe around, trying to hold yourself together. Flashes of who you once were come back to haunt you.

The pain you've caused.

"Supreme Kai, what's happening to him?" Kakarot's question isn't answered straight away.

The people you've murdered.

"Vegeta no! Don't let him! You've changed! You're not that way anymore! Babidi has no claim over you!"

The planets you've enslaved.

"What's Babidi doing!? Trying to kill him!?" Gohan demands an answer.

You never had any mercy for them.

"Worse than that, he's trying to take over his mind and enslave him so that he'll do what Babidi wishes him to do."

They never stood a chance against you, and you killed them.

"Isn't there any way we can help him!?"

You roar and howl in agony and pain as the memories attack you, your own evil used against you. The sins of your past a weapon that Babidi wields with honed expertise.

"He struggles because his heart is impure! He has to choose himself! Don't let him take you Vegeta! Let go! The past is the past. Don't think of it, be innocent and clear."

You manage a response, "How can you say that? I'm not innocent."

Truly, you're not. Everything you've done in your life. Slaughtering and killing innocents in the name of Freeza. Causing the deaths of Kakarot's friends indirectly. Massacring that village on Namek. Allowing Cell to achieve his final form. In search of innocence, only guilt is found.

Your struggle only intensifies, at some point, you had fallen to your knees. You continue to scream as you try to fight this off. Red energy begins to flow around you while you lift off of the ground. You only continue to scream, desperately fighting to keep your old desires from surfacing. You have a family. . .

"No...No way," You only just make out Gohan's disbelief as you rise further, screaming more.

Energy almost explodes from you, washing over the room as your vocal cords are pushed further and further by agonized screams escaping you. Snarls and growls begin to emanate from within you.

That's right, Vegeta…. You'll get what you've always wanted…

"Don't let them do it Vegeta! Don't let them use you! You're stronger than they ar-" Gohan never finishes his sentence, as an arc of red lightning shoots out from your body and sends him careening across the room. Your screams only further.

You'll no longer be second best.

Through your screams, you make out Kakarot crying out to his son, something you . . .

"Gohan! Are you okay!?"

You scream.

"Yeah, I'm fine." You overhear, if only just.

The room begins to shake due to the sheer amount of power you're putting out trying to fight this.

"Vegeta! No!"

"Fight it Vegeta!"

You only continue to scream, desperate for anything to hold onto mentally. You're certain had anyone been around the ship, they'd hear you even this far underground. You know the Earth itself is shaking as you continue to scream.

Your eyes shake as your mind races, something inside you tells you that you want this, and you do. For years you've been second best. That clown has made a fool of you, time and time again. Shame has been pressed upon you every time you so much as think of his name, much less look at him. He's surpassed you in so many ways, and now you finally have the chance to get even.

Finally, you give in.

"What a monstrous power! It's terrible! I can't even approach it!"

Your aura fades, and you land on your feet. At first, the sounds of pain are heard from within, and they soon turn into laughter as you raise your head, revealing the Majin Symbol upon your forehead.

Kakarot, Gohan, and the Supreme Kai gaze upon you, jaws dropped and in shock at the sight. You feel powerful, beyond anything you have ever experienced before.

"It's… Too late!" Supreme Kai exclaims.

You grin before you all hear that voice that once was only inside your head.

"Let's give you a more interesting place to fight, Papparapapa!"

The four of you are transported once more, this time you recognize your surroundings. The World Martial Arts Tournament, in the very center of the ring. The crowd gawks at you, questions abound as to how you got here, what are you doing. Of course, none of that drivel matters. You allowed this to happen for one thing, and one thing alone. Kakarot.

"Hey! We're back at the tournament!" Gohan announces. How astute.

The announcer eventually pipes up, "Excuse me, gentlemen, the championship has already been concluded! You all look very strong but there's always next year."

Before anyone else can pipe in, you make your statement, "We're just here for a little exhibition match."

The Announcer then yells out, ignoring you, "Ahh! Goku, I didn't see you back there! Welcome! I'm afraid you and your friends have arrived a little too late.

This is getting annoying. You glare at the man as he approaches Goku, ill intent fills your body.

Kakarot tries to warn the fool, "Look out!"

Too late, Kakarot. Your surge of power sends the annoying man flying. Fortunately for him, Gohan flies up to catch the useless snot. Kakarot, you've seen, took the blast for the Supreme Kai. That other annoying champion has no one to save him you notice, as he flies into the brick wall and leaves an imprint much the size of his own body. You smile, letting out a small chuckle.

Once again, Babidi seeks his way into your mind, trying to give you a command.

"Vegeta, this is your new master Babidi speaking, it's time for you to have a little fun! You can start by killing your friends!"

You struggle slightly, before overcoming his influence, "I won't, my goal is to fight Kakarot, the others are nothing."

Kakarot's face shows nothing other than betrayal, as he questions you, "Vegeta, how could you?"

Having turned to face him, you stare that pathetic warrior down. He knows what you've done. Even as much of a fool as he, there's still enough of a brain inside of him to know. It's almost impressive. You raise your hand to point a finger at this man.

"It's time, Kakarot."

You open your palm, readying a blast. Kakarot's face goes to one of almost fear, and shock as he watches you.

"Vegeta no!" His words mean nothing.

You chuckle, sending a blast at the fool. He blocks, and you simply turn it into an energy wave that pushes him further back. If he'll only defend, you'll simply overwhelm him.

"Haaaaa!" You yell as you throw more power into the energy wave, enough force to keep pushing Kakarot backward in the ring, towards the very edge of it. Eventually, he concedes and flips out of the way. You don't stop the blast as it careens into the audience.

The wave simply continues, finding little resistance even after exiting the arena wall. Nearby buildings in its path are found wanting for strength, and fall before your power. After the blast subsides, you can make out a mushroom cloud in the distance. It matters little to you how many you've just killed.

You can hear the screams from the audience, and the disbelief as Kakarot and Gohan gasp out in shock. You begin to chuckle once more. Red lighting flickers around your aura.

In the distance, you can barely make out Bulma's shocked words at your actions, "This is, too awful.. .There must be some…"

In any other circumstance, you would pity how much she cares for you.

The panicked onlookers begin to flee in terror, their screams filling the air. This simply causes you to chuckle as you fix your gaze upon Kakarot. He faces you, his face boiling with fury over your attack.

He takes a scolding tone, "Shame on you. The Vegeta I know would never have done this."

You simply grin. Somewhere, Gohan begins to beg you to stop your actions, but you ignore the brat. Kakarot is your only focus.

"Hey! Maniac!" You hear from behind you, "I'm afraid I can't allow you to move another inch! Your crime spree will end at my glorious fists! You've come head to head with the Champion of the World big guy!"

You just begin to laugh and laugh, and laugh. The man next to him mutters something that doesn't matter to you.

"On second thought fighting, you would be too much of a joke, so here's what I think we should do. You seem to have unresolved issues, I say you two fight for an exhausting amount of time and then I'll take over-"

Enough.

"Quiet!"

He cowers in fear.

"How about it? Shall we commence?" You demand from Kakarot.

"This isn't the time, Vegeta."

"You'll fight with me, Kakarot, unless of course, you want more bodies to pile up on your conscience!"

That got his attention.

"Vegeta, certainly you didn't." He understands now.

You chuckle.

His face hardens, "How sad, I didn't think you were weak enough to be controlled."

The other two wear shock on their faces, with Gohan trying to stop his father from antagonizing you further.

"Answer me! Vegeta! Did you let yourself be a slave!?"

You raise your left arm, hand ready for another blast and face your palm to the stands to your immediate left. Your smile never leaves your face. You fire a single blast. Kakarot looks on in horror. The stands explode, and your hair brustles in the wind caused by the shockwave as smoke seeps through the air.

Then, you answer him, "Tell me! Is it slavery when you get what you want?"

You cock your head back as your grin only expands on your face. Screams fill the air once more as panic ensues further. Kakarot transfixes his eyes upon the slaughter, anger welling up inside. Slowly, his eyes return to you. You chuckle once again.

Gohan stands up to you, "Stop it you don't know what you're doing!"

You growl, before yelling at him and sending a shockwave of ki at him, "Stand aside!"

It knocks him away with ease, this was the warrior who bested Cell?

"This does not concern you! It's between me and your circus clown of a father."

"Circus clown? Well, that's a new one."

Kakarot's hair begins to move, almost as if touched by the wind. You know better. Finally, it starts to stand up on edge. He lets out a sound of effort, and transforms into a Super Saiyan.

"No Goku, you musn't! If you fight him here you will be doing precisely what Babidi wishes! Every injury that Vegeta causes will be sent back to the ship, and Buu will be revived!"

"Tell me Vegeta, with that stamp on your head I know Babidi's been giving you orders. Is this one of them? Are you trying to fight me because of him, or is this the same old story between you and me? Which one!?"

Gohan interrupts, "Does it really matter?"

Oh, but it does. Truly, this has always been the case. The humiliation you've suffered must now come to an end, and you know Kakarot understands.

"Not to you, Gohan, but to a warrior it matters greatly. And you know this as well as I do, Kakarot, at the end of the day you'll be back to the dead, and I will not miss this opportunity."

The Supreme Kai still bothers to stick his head into your affairs, looking at you as he speaks, "Who are you people? Don't you see that the Universe matters more than your meaningless squabble?"

That's done it. Your fury begins to take control once more.

"Meaningless, huh!? What do you know of meaningless!?" You power-up, rage flowing through you, "Spend most of your life ruled by another, watch your race dwindle to a handful, and then, tell me what has more meaning than your own strength! I have in me the blood of a Saiyan prince, he is nothing but a joke! Yet I've had to watch him surpass me in strength, my destiny, thrown to the wayside! He's… He's even saved my life as if I were a helpless child! He has stolen my honor, and his debts, must be paid!"

The two of you continue to stare one another down, Kakarot as unyielding as you. Supreme Kai looking between the two of you.

Kakarot snarls, before speaking, "Babidi! Transport us to a place away from people! If you give me that, then I will fight Vegeta."

At last.

"So be it," Supreme Kai steps in front of you and facing towards Kakarot, extending his arms as he does so, "If you truly believe this is the right decision, then you will have to get around me to do it!"

You await Kakarot's choice. It feels like an eternity, time dragging by. You almost respect the Kai for offering to sacrifice his life. Almost

"Don't do this, Supreme Kai."

"Goku, I'm afraid I have no choice."

"Neither do I."

Kakarot raises his palm, and a sphere of blue energy begins to form. You gasp, even for Kakarot, this is… Well, he is a Saiyan after all.

The sphere only continues to grow in power, as Kakarot stares the Supreme Kai down. Kakarot's face is unyielding, you can tell that he's serious about this. There is no doubt in your mind that if that blasted Kai doesn't move that Kakarot will obliterate him.

It was never really a question, as the Kai puts his head and arms down, admitting defeat before he says anything, "Fine, do what you will. I can't stop you."

He then steps out from between the two of you. Despite his admitting defeat, there is still some semblance of respect.

"I'm sorry, Supreme Kai," Kakarot claims, though you, for one, cannot hear the sincerity in his voice.

"So am I."

Kakarot once more turns his attention to you. You smile with glee.

Within an instant, the four of you now stand in a desert, far away from anyone else.

"I trust you'll have no more excuses." You stare him down, firm in what you intend to do.

"None."

"Dad, don't do this!" Gohan yells out.

"It's alright, there's no point resisting what cannot be helped," Supreme Kai speaks to Gohan with an almost eerie calmness, as he walks towards the entrance to Babidi's chamber, he then turns his gaze to Gohan, "We will just have to continue our efforts with a new strategy. While you two fight up here, Gohan and I will break open the ship's entrance and continue our assault against Babidi and Dabura. I believe we still have a chance at stopping them before Buu's revival. If tampering with the ship's entrance ruptures Buu's shell, it will still be better than letting him reach full power from the energy lost by Goku. After all the time I've spent tracking Majin Buu, I will avert him with my own hands."

Supreme Kai raises his fist, readying himself to strike the entryway into Babidi's ship.

Kill him! The only way is to kill the Supreme Kai! Yes, kill him Vegeta!

Once again, you grab at your head as Babidi tries to wear away at your mind and your willpower. Once more, you struggle, and you fight as the others look on in shock. You scream and again fall to your knees as you struggle.

"Babidi's entered his mind."

You can't afford to let him live Vegeta!

Pain, intense pain as you put your face on the ground, holding onto your chest as you writhe in agony.

Kill him Vegeta, kill him!

You begin to rise, the mark on your forehead throbbing with pain as you stare down Kakarot.

"I refuse."

You can hear Babidi's shocked gasp in your mind.

"Your business with the Kai, it means nothing to me. Kakarot is my only objective."

That's amusing Vegeta, but I'm serious. With every fiber in your body, I command you to destroy! Kill! Kill the Kai!

"N-no…. Get out of my head! I already told you, I… Will not be distracted from this anymore! I won't! It will take more than head games to stop me! You may have invaded my mind and my body. . . . But there is one thing a Saiyan always keeps. . . HIS PRIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!"

You surge your power to maximum, shattering Babidi's connection to your mind. The shockwaves of your surge in power shatter nearby mountains, and then you slowly ease yourself out of the second Super Saiyan form, fixing your gaze upon Kakarot. Finally, you will get what you want.
 
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The potara fusion only lasted 5 minutes due to the sheer power of Goku and Vegeta. While no time is stated, the inferior fusion dance would last a even shorter time.
At least in the manga, the potara were interrupted by them going in to Buu's head - something about how Buu's strong victims were represented there as tiny fleshbound copies of themselves, probably; if they were aiming for a place where forcibly-fused characters would be sectioned off, presumably it also applied to their own fusion.
Then Vegeta blew up his potara, because Vegeta is crazy.
Or going into high concept stuff and logic bombing him with ayin. Or just transcending the binary of existence-non existence. Which is also high concept.
This sounds like you've seen these specific ideas in another story. Have you? If so, can you tell me which one? It sounds interesting.
not that you're wrong, but you should probably spoiler those parts in your quote as well
And likewise, you should look at your post immediately previous.
 
A theory on Maya's strange Growth Rate and Strength.
Ight, so how many of you guys think Maya is the reincarnation of Buu/Uub? Just asking because it's been in my head for a while and I felt like I might as well get this thoughts out there. It wouldn't surprise me honestly, she started out with a power level of 900 then Moved all the way to 100,000,000 with only a few months of training using her stupidly fast growth rate, and all those hints future us told us about Maya's power has me super suspicious since the only other Human I know that can reach that power level in such a short time without training is Uub. Also that fight with Kakara reminds me of the fight with Uub were he just got better as they fought her, I honestly felt like if we pushed her in that first fight she would have improved as the fight dragged on.
 
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At least in the manga, the potara were interrupted by them going in to Buu's head - something about how Buu's strong victims were represented there as tiny fleshbound copies of themselves, probably; if they were aiming for a place where forcibly-fused characters would be sectioned off, presumably it also applied to their own fusion.
Then Vegeta blew up his potara, because Vegeta is crazy.

This sounds like you've seen these specific ideas in another story. Have you? If so, can you tell me which one? It sounds interesting.

Talking about dragon ball super Vegito.

Naw I haven't seen them in fiction.

Here's ayin: Ayin and Yesh - Wikipedia

Since the enemy wields the concept of the void, and has made himself it, destroying the concept, returning him whatever predated concepts, would work.

As for the irrespective one, I just thought about what kind of concepts would still work on him, as they have to be ones that hold irrespective of existence or not.

Numbers is one (everything being gone just means there's 0 of something), and boundaries is another (the boundary between existence and non existence, or non existence and other concepts, etc). I'm sure you can think of a few concepts that also have this quality.

We just simply need to become the God of that, or have Jaffur pick up some magic along those lines.
 
Canonized! Bonus to Jaron managing to [???]

;)
At a guess, convince himself not to kill his dad.
I really want to see the rolls from the Unsealing fight, by the way. Particularly the bit where Berra OHKOed Jaffur - I know that blast was like two-and-a-bit times as powerful as Jaffur was, but how did Jaffur nor Kakara notice in time to even try dodging?
(Also, I'm pretty sure Jaffur deciding not to kill his dad - or his mom - was a pretty poignant thing, in his 1v2 fight. I want that flashback, and may be prepared to pay in omakes.)
 
A theory on Maya's strange Growth Rate and Strength.
'Ight, so how many of you guys think Maya is the reincarnation of Buu/Uub? Just asking because it's been in my head for a while and I felt like I might as well get this thoughts out there. It wouldn't surprise me honestly, she started out with a power level of 900 then Moved all the way to 100,000,000 with only a few months of training using her stupidly fast growth rate, and all those hints future us told us about Maya's power has me super suspicious since the only other Human I know that can reach that power level in such a short time without training is Uub. Also that fight with Kakara reminds me of the fight with Uub were he just got better as they fought her, I honestly felt like if we pushed her in that first fight she would have improved as the fight dragged on.
First off, that's not an RP spoiler. Secondly, I'm pretty sure Oob decided to fuse with Buu in this story, at around the same time Buu left earth. Now, maybe someone eventually killed him/some of his components, but I'd actually look at other dead bad guys first.
Maybe Cell?

On another note, I finally have a compelling theory as to who the New Friends are. Namely, the Kanassans. Who else would have a major conceptual link to us, when we've never met them or been friends before?
 
At least in the manga, the potara were interrupted by them going in to Buu's head - something about how Buu's strong victims were represented there as tiny fleshbound copies of themselves, probably; if they were aiming for a place where forcibly-fused characters would be sectioned off, presumably it also applied to their own fusion.
Then Vegeta blew up his potara, because Vegeta is crazy.
he's talking about vegito blue vs zamasu, not the buu fight.

A theory on Maya's strange Growth Rate and Strength.
reincarnation is usually a thing mostly for bad people. If you're in heaven you'd likely prefer to stay there rather than losing all you are by reincarnating. Ub is likely with the rest of the z fighters, watching our fight. I don't think he was EXPLICITELY mentioned, but then again there are A LOT of z fighters to name them all.

Now, this doesn't mean that Maiya isn't SOMEONE'S reincarnation... but it would have to be a bad guy. Like Cell's, for example. Or Frieza's. Or some other unnamed villain in the galaxy.

Or she could simply be a mutant. It happens, we KNOW it happens.

Or maybe she's the reincarnation of the ancient evil that made the garenhulder fear the unknown.

..actually, new possible vision for whenever we're not this busy: pastsight, Why is Maya this strong?
Secondly, I'm pretty sure Oob decided to fuse with Buu in this story, at around the same time Buu left earth.
He didn't. We know Uub died against the enemy, while Bu left Earth to try and get 18 to come back (she left once Krillin died of old age)

On another note, I finally have a compelling theory as to who the New Friends are. Namely, the Kanassans. Who else would have a major conceptual link to us, when we've never met them or been friends before?
Didn't Bardack and friends kill them all?

so, our guesses until now

Those above: heaven and z-fighters

Those below: Hell: possible encounter include pretty much every dead being ever, including Cell, Oni Goku, Frieza if he died (but I don't think so) and many others

-[ ] Old friends. Well, we already met the Namekian :D


-[ ] New friends. The harder to guess, as they'd be NEW by definition

-[ ] Old family. Probably 18

-[ ] New family. Probably Tarble's descendants

-[ ] Old enemies. Probably Frieza

-[ ] New enemies. Probably the fleet directed to Garenhuld, but it might easily be someone else.
 
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