Dragon Ball: After the End
ChildishChimera
A umbran summon
- Location
- New York
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies
Dang ,you guys argue allot.
Dang ,you guys argue allot.
- Location
- Australia
Which, I argue, Driven also gives us. Training Multiform more has a greater chance of giving us an extra action than style training. Ki Manipulation boosts Multiform learning as well as style and we actually get a slight bonus to it instead of a malus.
We'd only be a real slacker if we slacked out of laziness, which we aren't. We have the world on our shoulders and figuring out how to cope with that with the help of our parents is important and good for our mental health.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Vote tally:
##### 3.19
[X] Plan Andres110
-[X] Slack (1 action): You have better things to do! Slack off on schoolwork to focus on other pursuits. Effect: Possible grade loss. You're smart and this is primary school, you have a decent chance of not dropping a grade.
-[X] Best Fit (1 action): Jaron has been brought into the Misfits, but as reclusive as he is he doesn't seem to know how to make the effort to really push into the group's dynamic. It's up to you and your friends to make him feel welcome, and this is your part in it. Effect: Do your part to make Jaron feel welcome in the group.
-[X]Nosy Little Girl (1 action): You've noticed lately that Maya has been acting...strangely. She's been giving you strange looks, and only recently stopped, starting to act a lot more comfortable around you. Maybe you're being paranoid, but you want to know what's up. Effects: Poke Maya, asking her what's up.
-[X] Train Multiform
--[X] Ask Dad for Seer assistance
-[X] Train Multiform
--[X] Ask Dad for Seer assistance
-[X] Command Training (1 action): You will be expected to lead your Clan if war comes. You may as well be good at it. Effect: Learn the art of battlefield command. Gain Leadership skill and set your starting skill level. Your mindset won't impact you as badly here.
-[X] Train With Sensei (1 action): Nothing for it but time. Effect: Grind your talent in Seer abilities. Sensei tells you that this will be gruelingly hard, and take years to master no matter how much of a prodigy you are.
-[X] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Mind Projection]
-[X] Socialize! (Fennella)
-[X] Family First (Mato)
-[X] A Scion's Duties III (1 action): You have a comprehensive knowledge of the way Clan Goku functions, a general overview of Clan Vegeta, and are an effective and renowned communicator. It's time to finish your theoretical education by completing your knowledge of Clan Vegeta and expanding your training in how to manipulate and mediate between others. Effect: Learn the art of diplomacy and Clan management at the feet of your father, improving your Communication and Intrigue skills and learning about the practical side of managing hundreds upon thousands of Saiyans who all want a fight.
-[X] Get Organized (1 action): Presently your conspiracy is more like two separate plots running in tandem; you and the Senzus, and then whatever Grandma is doing. You need to get everybody in the same room together so that you all can unify your efforts and share all available information. Effects: Figure out just what Grandma has been up to and what assets she can lend to things. Share information and work out a unified plan of action. As this involves you, Grandma, and the Senzus in the same room at the very least even before including anybody you bring in this year, this is highly treasonous and will involve an event series. The possibility of discovery does exist, although with your current precautions is fairly unlikely.
-[X] New Tricks (Telepathy)
No. of votes: 1
Andres110
[x] Plan Aranfan
[x] Maintain Grades (2 actions): You're good where you are. Let's just get the effort in to stick it out and then focus on other things. Effect: Maintain grades.
[x] Best Fit (1 action): Jaron has been brought into the Misfits, but as reclusive as he is he doesn't seem to know how to make the effort to really push into the group's dynamic. It's up to you and your friends to make him feel welcome, and this is your part in it. Effect: Do your part to make Jaron feel welcome in the group.
[x] Nosy Little Girl (1 action): You've noticed lately that Maya has been acting...strangely. She's been giving you strange looks, and only recently stopped, starting to act a lot more comfortable around you. Maybe you're being paranoid, but you want to know what's up. Effects: Poke Maya, asking her what's up.
[x] Learn Tenshinhan Style x2
[x] Train Multiform
[x] Command Training
[x] Train with Sensei
[x] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Mind Projection] (1 action)
[x] Family First
[x] A Scion's Duty III
[x] Get organized
No. of votes: 11
Aranfan, Karnax626, veekie, KnightDisciple, ElleonXan, Sucal, Cytokinesis, pianoman, Lupercal, Bakkasama, Gore17
[X] Plan Chi Chi
[X] Raise Grades
[X] Power of Learning
-[X] Medicine
-[X] Quantum Physics
-[X] Rocket Science
-[X] Law
-[X] Archeology
-[X] Thermodynamics
-[X] Psychology
-[X] Accounting
-[X] Neuroscience
No. of votes: 1
Mortifer
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies
No. of votes: 9
GilliamYaeger, The king Chad, anailater, faflec, ChronOblivion, eaglejarl, Nathaniel Wolff, Terrabrand, Cariyaga
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies
[X] Slack (1 action)
[X] Best Fit (1 action)
[X] The Nosy Girl (1 action)
[X] Train Ki Manipulation (2 actions)
[X] Command Training (1 action)
[X] Train Specific Skill (1 action, may be taken multiple times) Multiform
[X] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Write-In Specific Technique] (1 action) Mind Projection
[X] Family First (1 action) Mato
[X] A Scion's Duties III (1 action)
[X] Get Organized (1 action)
[X] New Tricks (1 action) Telepathy
[X] The Examined Life (1 action) Driven
-[X] If we think it'll help, ask our family for their thoughts
No. of votes: 3
Deathbybunnies, Bommelom, ChildishChimera
I feel pretty worthless right now.
##### 3.19
[X] Plan Andres110
-[X] Slack (1 action): You have better things to do! Slack off on schoolwork to focus on other pursuits. Effect: Possible grade loss. You're smart and this is primary school, you have a decent chance of not dropping a grade.
-[X] Best Fit (1 action): Jaron has been brought into the Misfits, but as reclusive as he is he doesn't seem to know how to make the effort to really push into the group's dynamic. It's up to you and your friends to make him feel welcome, and this is your part in it. Effect: Do your part to make Jaron feel welcome in the group.
-[X]Nosy Little Girl (1 action): You've noticed lately that Maya has been acting...strangely. She's been giving you strange looks, and only recently stopped, starting to act a lot more comfortable around you. Maybe you're being paranoid, but you want to know what's up. Effects: Poke Maya, asking her what's up.
-[X] Train Multiform
--[X] Ask Dad for Seer assistance
-[X] Train Multiform
--[X] Ask Dad for Seer assistance
-[X] Command Training (1 action): You will be expected to lead your Clan if war comes. You may as well be good at it. Effect: Learn the art of battlefield command. Gain Leadership skill and set your starting skill level. Your mindset won't impact you as badly here.
-[X] Train With Sensei (1 action): Nothing for it but time. Effect: Grind your talent in Seer abilities. Sensei tells you that this will be gruelingly hard, and take years to master no matter how much of a prodigy you are.
-[X] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Mind Projection]
-[X] Socialize! (Fennella)
-[X] Family First (Mato)
-[X] A Scion's Duties III (1 action): You have a comprehensive knowledge of the way Clan Goku functions, a general overview of Clan Vegeta, and are an effective and renowned communicator. It's time to finish your theoretical education by completing your knowledge of Clan Vegeta and expanding your training in how to manipulate and mediate between others. Effect: Learn the art of diplomacy and Clan management at the feet of your father, improving your Communication and Intrigue skills and learning about the practical side of managing hundreds upon thousands of Saiyans who all want a fight.
-[X] Get Organized (1 action): Presently your conspiracy is more like two separate plots running in tandem; you and the Senzus, and then whatever Grandma is doing. You need to get everybody in the same room together so that you all can unify your efforts and share all available information. Effects: Figure out just what Grandma has been up to and what assets she can lend to things. Share information and work out a unified plan of action. As this involves you, Grandma, and the Senzus in the same room at the very least even before including anybody you bring in this year, this is highly treasonous and will involve an event series. The possibility of discovery does exist, although with your current precautions is fairly unlikely.
-[X] New Tricks (Telepathy)
No. of votes: 1
Andres110
[x] Plan Aranfan
[x] Maintain Grades (2 actions): You're good where you are. Let's just get the effort in to stick it out and then focus on other things. Effect: Maintain grades.
[x] Best Fit (1 action): Jaron has been brought into the Misfits, but as reclusive as he is he doesn't seem to know how to make the effort to really push into the group's dynamic. It's up to you and your friends to make him feel welcome, and this is your part in it. Effect: Do your part to make Jaron feel welcome in the group.
[x] Nosy Little Girl (1 action): You've noticed lately that Maya has been acting...strangely. She's been giving you strange looks, and only recently stopped, starting to act a lot more comfortable around you. Maybe you're being paranoid, but you want to know what's up. Effects: Poke Maya, asking her what's up.
[x] Learn Tenshinhan Style x2
[x] Train Multiform
[x] Command Training
[x] Train with Sensei
[x] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Mind Projection] (1 action)
[x] Family First
[x] A Scion's Duty III
[x] Get organized
No. of votes: 11
Aranfan, Karnax626, veekie, KnightDisciple, ElleonXan, Sucal, Cytokinesis, pianoman, Lupercal, Bakkasama, Gore17
[X] Plan Chi Chi
[X] Raise Grades
[X] Power of Learning
-[X] Medicine
-[X] Quantum Physics
-[X] Rocket Science
-[X] Law
-[X] Archeology
-[X] Thermodynamics
-[X] Psychology
-[X] Accounting
-[X] Neuroscience
No. of votes: 1
Mortifer
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies
No. of votes: 9
GilliamYaeger, The king Chad, anailater, faflec, ChronOblivion, eaglejarl, Nathaniel Wolff, Terrabrand, Cariyaga
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies
[X] Slack (1 action)
[X] Best Fit (1 action)
[X] The Nosy Girl (1 action)
[X] Train Ki Manipulation (2 actions)
[X] Command Training (1 action)
[X] Train Specific Skill (1 action, may be taken multiple times) Multiform
[X] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Write-In Specific Technique] (1 action) Mind Projection
[X] Family First (1 action) Mato
[X] A Scion's Duties III (1 action)
[X] Get Organized (1 action)
[X] New Tricks (1 action) Telepathy
[X] The Examined Life (1 action) Driven
-[X] If we think it'll help, ask our family for their thoughts
No. of votes: 3
Deathbybunnies, Bommelom, ChildishChimera
I feel pretty worthless right now.
ElleonXan
Self-Proclaimed King of the Dumpster Fires
- Location
- USA
According to the tally you're only 1 behind Deathbybunnies... and hey, at least you're still fighting the good fight. I gave up, myself. So trust me, you're FAR from worthless.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
I'm going to sleep soon tho.
@ChildishChimera , @Terrabrand
Could you explain why you prefer plan deathbybunnies over plan aranfan?
- Location
- Scotland
Oh get over yourself, it's a vote on a tiny website for a dragon ball fan fiction story, you're hardly some great failure cause some people disagree with you.
See how the votes pan out take the win or loss and move on.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Well I'm sorry for having to take medicine for this shit, but it's not exactly something I can really control or get over.
- Location
- Australia
@Deathbybunnies, pretty much the only sticking point that's preventing me from voting for your plan is that you only have one Seer action, and I reckon that's the same for other people. I urge you to swap either Nosy Girl or Ki Manipulation for standard Seer training.
- Location
- Scotland
Then take your medicine and don't post when you haven't, I don't know what you life is like, but I also shouldn't be expected to know everything about you.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Ah. Comfortably anywhere on the planet once you reach "Talented" levels. At "Competent" you should hit anything within your line of sight. "Unlearned" would get you anything within about fifty miles.
No. I can see why you'd think it might, but the need isn't there.
I think perhaps we need to step it down a bit. Neither of you are doing something particularly wrong with these posts, but at the same time we're verging into very personal territory where it's very easy to say something hurtful, and I know that none of us want that.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
So what you're saying is that if we took SSJ2 and The Examined Life: Driven, they would synergize well and give a bonus to SSJ2 succeeding?
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
It occurs to me that this hasn't been stated in-thread yet: in BOD, which I'm sure you all remember is the basis for my system here, achieving the form of Super Saiyan 2 requires not merely power, extreme emotion, and dire need, but a moment of epiphany as well. So taking "The Examined Life" for one of your foundational traits would be a great way to ease the SSJ2 check, yes. Of course, the nature of epiphany is change, and thus the trait you'd gain in response to this course of action would change from its predecessor in some way -- not necessarily negatively, but it would require a sea change in the way Kakara views the world. And I will say that you absolutely do need SSJ2 if you want to achieve it.
- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies
Going with this because getting great grades is not a priority for me right now, and because I enjoy reading things from the POV of a telepath.
@PoptartProdigy This may have been asked before, but does telepathy interact in any interesting ways with the multiform technique? (specifically, would it allow for constant communication between ourselves?) If so, that could be the basis of a pretty unique fighting style.
Going with this because getting great grades is not a priority for me right now, and because I enjoy reading things from the POV of a telepath.
@PoptartProdigy This may have been asked before, but does telepathy interact in any interesting ways with the multiform technique? (specifically, would it allow for constant communication between ourselves?) If so, that could be the basis of a pretty unique fighting style.
- Location
- Australia
I hate this. This really sucks. It forces character development out of our hands, making it so we HAVE to see things in a different way even if the way we were seeing things before was just fine and was right. It's also antithetical to what Super Saiyan 2 - and indeed the whole line of Super Saiyans - is supposed to be: immense power, immense rage, and need tied together. Epiphany is enlightenment and Super Saiyan 2 is the exact opposite of enlightenment - it clouds one's mind with uncontrollable rage.
When Gohan transformed into a Super Saiyan 2, it wasn't because he finally realised he needed to defeat Cell, it was because he "let it go" as Android 16 told him. He let go of all his restraints, all the things which made him calm and not hateful. He'd let go times before in DB (Raditz, Saiyan saga, Frieza saga), this time just completely. All he did was stop hesitating and let himself be angry. Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta didn't realise something about the world. Their world views didn't change in the slightest.
This idea of epiphany as the gate to Super Saiyan 2 is abomination. It means that either we've been seeing the world wrong or we have to see the world in a wrong way. If the mind-clouding anger of the transformation was what was making us see the world differently/wrong, and that we'd go back to normal when we dropped out of it, that would be an understandable interpretation, but the way it's written it's implied that the epiphany has to be a true one, one that Kakara believes in even outside the transformation. I despise the notion.
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ElleonXan
Self-Proclaimed King of the Dumpster Fires
- Location
- USA
I know I said I was done, but congratulations you pulled me back in.
Now, aside from your arrogance in saying you know the best and that the author is wrong... honestly, epiphany makes the most sense as to the trigger for Gohan's Super Saiyan 2... the only transformation to this level that we see. It wasn't anger that triggered the transformation, or Vegeta could have hit SSJ2 during the cell games as well with how angry he got. It was the epiphany that it was okay to give into his darker feelings and that it didn't (in fact) make him a bad person that gave Gohan the impetus to transform.
Also... "the supersaiyan line is all about need, power, and rage tied together"? If this is true... where the flying f**k did Super Saiyan 3 come from? There was no need, unlikely any rage... and if I recall correctly, Goku was already the most powerful thing in the afterlife at the time. Or... better yet, how do you explain Goten and Trunks becoming Super Saiyans? No, I take that back... you could MAYBE make a case for Trunks getting crushed under the weight of Vegeta's expectations for him. But Goten? Or heck, what about SSJ3 Gotenks? It was literally pulled out of nowhere.
And honestly, we already have a huge revelation waiting for us that is almost guaranteed to show up when it's time to transform into SSJ2: that sometimes pacifism just doesn't help and can actually hinder you. When someone close to us gets hurt or killed (either in this coming alien invasion or in some other future event) and we're not strong/fast/smart/skilled enough to stop it because we "despise fighting"... heck, it even satisfies your BS "anger/need/power" trinity for the impetus to SSJ2.
Also... actually, I'm about dead on my feet, so I'm going to just leave it at this and come back later after a full night's sleep to finish my thoughts.
- Location
- Australia
It's not arrogance. He is trying to do one of two things. He might be trying to match Dragon Ball as closely as possible, in which case I think he's failing. If not that, then he's doing his own thing with DB as a starting point. There's nothing inherently wrong with doing that, it's the merit of the specific thing he's trying to do that I think is wrong. It's ultimately just an opinion that he's doing something wrong, not objective fact.
Anger is just one of the requirements. You also need power, power that Vegeta didn't possess. He was strong but not as strong as Goku or Gohan, not strong enough to transform.
It wasn't the epiphany that it was okay to give in to his darker feelings that gave him the impetus, the impetus was giving in to his darker feelings. If he'd known it was ok from the start, he wouldn't have needed to change or realise something to transform into a Super Saiyan 2, he'd just do what he knew to be ok and he'd transform.
"You have to create that need" is a thing, so it was probably done the same way Gohan transformed into a Super Saiyan. "Unlikely any rage?" As if. Super Saiyan 1 and 2 both needed rage, so assuming SS3 didn't need it is illogical, especially since we see that Goku is more short-tempered in SS3 than in SS2.
Goten and Trunks were weird. There's a reason we don't use them as any kind of basis for Super Saiyan transformations. This comic sums it up.
And what if we make that epiphany before we're in a situation where we have to transform into a Super Saiyan 2? What epiphany would we have left that would trigger the transformation? What if we reach that epiphany before we need to go SS2 as well? It means we have to choose to "save up" an epiphany for the SS2 transformation, one that we would've/should've gotten by then, or else the epiphany we'll have might be a wrong one or something we don't want to have like "You know, I never realised it before, but I'm so much better than everyone that I should just kill everyone." Exaggerated, of course, but that's my point, and the reason why I don't like his epiphany requirement.
Are you kidding me? This "BS trinity" has been rooted in Dragon Ball rather firmly and is something that even PP uses. The transformation comes in response to a need, not a desire. You need to be angry to transform. You need to have a prerequisite level of power to transform (PL of 100,000 for SS1 IIRC). It's not something I just made up.
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- Location
- Australia
@PoptartProdigy, would we be able to do The Examine Life (Pacifism) if we did SS2 training at the same time?