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- Actually pretty lost
Yes. And apparently, it does double as training Mind Delve!
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Dragon Ball: After the End
- Location
- SDF-1,Somewhere In The Multiverse
I think you got me wrong on this
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- Actually pretty lost
Aww damn it. My apologies - his name has spaces, and in the little pop-up your icons look similar.
Yo, I updated my plan a little. Any objections that would lead to you withdrawing your vote? I haven't changed very much.
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The QM has specifically said he'll be picking and choosing what from GT is in this quest and what isn't. It turned out the Golden Oozaru is; we still don't know about SSJ4.
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- Somewhere I shouldn't be
As the bunny man said, this has been repeatedly asked.
The QM has specifically refused to answer it.
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- Actually pretty lost
You've got me thinking abut our planned Golden Oozaru style again.
Right now, our plan for it (when we make it) is "We're the biggest, strongest dude out there but we're a little slow." We were going to make the style about big, powerful, wide-area attacks even against individuals to prevent dodging. We hadn't really gotten into Involved and Penalised techniques. Thinking about it though, Multiform (and eventually Perfect Cell's Perfect Multiform) is almost inevitably going to feature heavily, so I think that not only should it be Involved, but so should Hand-to-Hand [Team Fighting] - even when we're alone, we're always fighting in a team. Meanwhile, we should Penalise Hand-to-Hand [Dueling] on the basis that we're never actually doing that while in Multiform. We also want our attacks to be not only big but also fast to prevent dodging, so we should Involve those super-fast beam attacks (though we'll have to pick which ones specifically) and slower attacks like the Kienzan (Destructo Disk) should probably be Penalised since we won't be making use of them. And being so big and throwing around huge techniques means that we'll probably end up Involving crowd fighting by default.
Thoughts?
Right now, our plan for it (when we make it) is "We're the biggest, strongest dude out there but we're a little slow." We were going to make the style about big, powerful, wide-area attacks even against individuals to prevent dodging. We hadn't really gotten into Involved and Penalised techniques. Thinking about it though, Multiform (and eventually Perfect Cell's Perfect Multiform) is almost inevitably going to feature heavily, so I think that not only should it be Involved, but so should Hand-to-Hand [Team Fighting] - even when we're alone, we're always fighting in a team. Meanwhile, we should Penalise Hand-to-Hand [Dueling] on the basis that we're never actually doing that while in Multiform. We also want our attacks to be not only big but also fast to prevent dodging, so we should Involve those super-fast beam attacks (though we'll have to pick which ones specifically) and slower attacks like the Kienzan (Destructo Disk) should probably be Penalised since we won't be making use of them. And being so big and throwing around huge techniques means that we'll probably end up Involving crowd fighting by default.
Thoughts?
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[X] Deathbybunnies
While it's something to think about incorporating, I'm reluctant to go all-in on Great Ape. Transformation takes time and either it or Power Ball takes significant investment. Vegeta timed his arrival so that it would have coincided with the full moon if it hadn't been destroyed despite having a way to achieve the ape form, then delayed assuming it. There are also situations where we wouldn't want to use the form, especially if we want to maintain a masquerade. A tail can be hidden. A giant, glowing ape? Not so much. It seems better to focus on a multi-form technique, with the base, Super-Saiyan, and Ape pools split into separate bodies. That way we'd have a teleportation tank, DPS, and skirmisher working together.
I think we're about at the point where we need to ask the mods to put the answer in giant flashing letters as a header on every page.
While it's something to think about incorporating, I'm reluctant to go all-in on Great Ape. Transformation takes time and either it or Power Ball takes significant investment. Vegeta timed his arrival so that it would have coincided with the full moon if it hadn't been destroyed despite having a way to achieve the ape form, then delayed assuming it. There are also situations where we wouldn't want to use the form, especially if we want to maintain a masquerade. A tail can be hidden. A giant, glowing ape? Not so much. It seems better to focus on a multi-form technique, with the base, Super-Saiyan, and Ape pools split into separate bodies. That way we'd have a teleportation tank, DPS, and skirmisher working together.
I think we're about at the point where we need to ask the mods to put the answer in giant flashing letters as a header on every page.
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- Actually pretty lost
Those are excellent points, though for many of our long-term bigger fights I think that the Masquerade will be less of a problem - it's really more for outside-context invasions, in space and such. As for the Power Ball, maybe we can find a way to internalise the transformation trigger? Swallow a Power Ball, or the moon or something? It's certainly a weakness of the form, as it stands (though actually, if that's not possible maybe we should Involve Power Ball? Being an Oozaru is integral to the style.) Though with Multiform we can probably buy the time to transform.
I also like the idea of having a regular SSJ and a Golden Oozaru up at the same time with Multiform (probably Perfect Cell's Multiform) and I think Telepathy might help with that, but we'll have to check and see if we can have our bodies in different stages of transformation.
We aren't making the style yet anyway, and might not for some time. How do you feel about the specific Involved and Penalised Skills?
EDIT: Also, why would we have a base and a Super Saiyan instead of two Super Saiyans? Is there anything we can do as base we can't while Super?
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I'll need to check on it, but I'm still leaning towards a grapple-focused derivative of Tien's style because it maximizes our special advantages while minimizing our disadvantages. I'm really reluctant to be on being able to develop a perfect multi-form because it seems downright game-breaking. We should really plan around multi-form requiring us to split pools rather than just duplicating them. If that were possible a multi-form + fusion + GOTO 1 loop would destroy the universe.
There may be a technological approach to transformation, but we don't seem to have them. Power Ball also appears to have some serious disadvantages at higher levels, at least according to GT. Vegeta didn't just use that technique to transform. He had to have Bulma build a special truck-sized emitter.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That was because he didn't have a tail any more and apparntly couldn't regrow one.
I assume the Dragonball Multiverse method of augmetic lamps in the eyes that produce Blutz waves wouldn't work @PoptartProdigy?
Would it beposible to use magic or Seer visions to trick our bodie in to thinking that it was resiving blutz waves? Or posibley a smaller version of Bulma's blutz wave emiter? I can see why more people don't bother controlling the transformation when its so niche but if a large enough group could be made ready for the invation then have a way to safly activate them but not anyone who can't control themselves could be useful.
Would something like this need to be a write in vote or could it be added as a subvote to planning for the invation next turn?
Edit: Apologies for the poor spelling.
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- Actually pretty lost
Cell's the only one who performed it, and he was still limited to 4 bodies while doing so, so I don't think it would cause an infinite feedback loop. And I think it came up because someone asked @PoptartProdigy and he confirmed it was a thing and that the exiles knew that it had existed? And I want our final build to something Ki-related, given we're a Ki Prodigy and love Ki. Maybe one Multiform grapples, another one fires?
No, i literally meant we could investigate a Ki technique that made the Bluz Waves (I think they're called) internal, or the transformation sequence not removing our ability to fight.
EDIT: I just realised what you meant by the fusion loop. I'm pretty sure @PoptartProdigy will rule you can't fuse with yourself, for Reasons.
DOUBLE EDIT: Or if by some madness you could do so, you just couldn't Multiform further - you're maintaining the Multiform within your single fused form.
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Tien's style has some of the most devastating ki blasts available, and ki prodigy will likely synergize with pacifist in reinventing and further developing the Spirit Bomb, which the GM has confirmed can be used to fuel Tien's most powerful ki blasts instead of Kakara's own life force. There's room for Ki use, but it does need to be tailored to avoid the pacifist malus. If I recall correctly, we're a prodigy at ki sensing and manipulation, but not projection, which makes generic ki blasts a problem in comparison.
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We are planning to learn Tien's style in the near future, so we'll have access to those techniques when deciding on what skills to Involve. And the Ki Prodigy trait says we get a smaller bonus to Ki Manipulation too (in fact, this offsets the Pacifist malus to training it.)
Maybe we should also Involve The Four Witches grappling technique too? Having a Multiform hold them in place would also help with the speed issue...
- Location
- Scotland
Okay actual Lore question, what kind of bullshit power was Broly rocking in this universe, Just a very high power level, or that one version where his power level is constantly slowly increasing?
Also can you please deviate from canon in this one single case and pretend like Broly didn't have the worst motivation known to mankind?
Also can you please deviate from canon in this one single case and pretend like Broly didn't have the worst motivation known to mankind?
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Here's the style description:
We are now using several of his techniques, it's true (Multi-Form and the Four Witches Technique) But other than those two, I think our style will be distinct - and tailored to the Great Ape form. (And we'll be developing Multi-Form further than he did, most likely.)
Broly's real motivation was that he was actually driven insane by his bloodline - it just caused him to latch onto Goku for something as a target. Or at least, that's my thinking.
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
I can answer that!
Basically, LSSJ in this universe isn't a 'infinite power' transformation. Instead what it does is put you firmly above a Full-Power Super Saiyan and make you immune to any attacks weaker than your power level.
Dunno about the second one, though...
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- Actually pretty lost
Actually, why are we planning on learning Tien's style before we even have the Spirit Bomb? We only want his life-force technique because we can supplant our life force with other people's, and right now we can't. Meanwhile, Ki Manipulation is boosting our learning of Multi-Form. Why do we think that this style will let us counter Dad? Goku Style doesn't seem to have any weaknesses to it.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Because it boosts our Multiform Training and IIRC let's us break the level cap.
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- Actually pretty lost
So does Ki Manipulation, and we're already Talented in that - and training it.
EDIT: I mean, it's a good reason, but does Ki Manipulation supplant it entirely?
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- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I would have loved nothing more.
They synergize, specifically. One is easier if you know the other.
Every saiyan on Garenhuld: ...WHY DIDN'T WE THINK OF THAT?!
Nobody's tried. You'd have to find a tinker and a surgeon willing to experiment on that. As for more esoteric solutions, it's possible that magic could do it, but you're not sure how. It's possible that the Gokun Sorcerers (and Lady Vegeta if you pass the Willpower check to have a polite conversation with her and she agrees) could work it out in time.
They know it exists, yes, but haven't figured how he did it.
Have already ruled, in fact.
Well, per BOD, 1.55 billion as an LSSJ. In detail...
The scene that the popular, "constantly getting stronger" theory comes from is the one mid-fight with the Super Saiyans when Broly pauses and says something along the lines of, "My ki is rising...it's overflowing!" whereupon he vents ki all over the landscape. That doesn't look like Broly's getting stronger to me; it looks like he drew too much power and needed to get rid of it fast. No, what BOD decided (and as Nathaniel pointed out, we've chosen to run with), what the form does is make him explicitly immune to attacks of a lower power. Broly doesn't flinch or even get scratched by any attack directed at him unless the person doing it is more powerful, at which point he swiftly dies. That's not how combat works. So that's what was decided.
As for motivation, I prefer to focus far more on his general insanity, because you can hide an actual character under a boatload of insane rage.
It also favors multi-form and four witches, which play to our advantages and allow the development of a grappling/ki-blocking approach which may circumvent the pacifist malus while making combat IT more practical. Those also make fighting mobs of lesser foes easier. Beyond that, it's well-balanced and presents no exploitable weaknesses, which is more important than distinct advantages for somebody who expects to be at least at power parity with their opponent.
Goku-style is devastating up close if it keeps the momentum, but gain the initiative or control the range and it's so disadvantaged the Berra actually tried to switch to Krillin-style in mid-clash despite being a novice in Krillin-style and an unparalleled master in Goku-style. It's also heavily optimized for one-on-one combat, which puts it at quite a disadvantage against somebody rocking Four Witches, Multi-form, IT, various disruption techniques, and a fast, devastating holdout ki blast.
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- Actually pretty lost
So it gives us bonuses for learning Multi-Form and the Four Witches Technique. The other parts of that - IT, disruption techniques - we already know, as well as already knowing Multiform and training it. Why do we want the life-force technique when we're already Talented with the Kamehameha? All of these things the style gives us are also given by Ki Manipulation (except the FWGT), which for purposes of level-locking is already much further progressed.
Don't get me wrong, I can see the advantages to learning it when we get the Spirit Bomb. But until then, why is it a priority next turn?
EDIT: I mean we'll have to spend actions learning the FWGT anyway, right?
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- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Apologies, but I haven't had time to really examine the plans closely to clearly articulate it. had a couple of very busy days. The primary impetus was agreeing with a lot of deathbybunnies logic trains prior to the vote actually opening, I don't believe I have closely examined your plan to know the actual differences and don't have time to go digging at the moment.