- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Fair enough. I'm going offline for a few hours, I'll think about it. I'm afraid I might have to drop telepathy...
Dragon Ball: After the End
- Location
- Australia
Telepathy is too useful to the plot, moreso than Ki Manipulation. I don't want to delay it either, it's a bitter pill to swallow, but it's ultimately the least important/urgent part of your plan.Fair enough. I'm going offline for a few hours, I'll think about it. I'm afraid I might have to drop telepathy...
EDIT: If you want to decrease the chance of action limitation stopping us from improving Ki Manipulation in the future, you can put one of the freed up actions into more Multiform. If we're lucky it might go up to Exceptional, giving us two extra actions.
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Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
You know... I am usually not in favor of slacking (in quests) but it bothers me a lot that those who are in favor of it are missing the obvious argument.
@PoptartProdigy Mom's Elite teaching skill could be used to improve our grades if they drop, right?
On the other hand, she is a teacher so I don't think she would be kosher with us ignoring our grades...
@PoptartProdigy Mom's Elite teaching skill could be used to improve our grades if they drop, right?
On the other hand, she is a teacher so I don't think she would be kosher with us ignoring our grades...
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I'm loathe to give that up, since it makes future training easier, especially if we go for Perfect Cell's version later. But I think that you might be underestimating the progress of our seer level - it's described as "gruelling". I think I'll keep my plan as-is for now, we can focus on seer stuff next turn.
- Location
- Australia
The only use for Perfect Multiform is battle and it's something we'll have to invent. It's not as important or worthy of our attention as you seem to think it is.
All the more reason to put more actions into Seer this turn. My previous reason still stands, we should do more Seer training this turn to increase the chance of us being able to speak with Jaffur next turn. Not putting more actions into this turn will severely lower our odds of success next turn.
He's talking about the time Perfect Cell used Multiform, which unlike the normal version of Multiform didn't cut his power. Every clone fought at Cell's normal strength.
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Pretty sure the Cell Jr.'s were because of Piccolo's DNA, the original Demon King Piccolo could spawn minions, after all.
No they didn't, they fought at Cell's supressed strength.
Pretty sure that was also filler, and also pretty sure Krillin and Piccolo did the same against Nappa. Tenshinhan's Multi-Form clones didn't seem weaker against the Ginyu Force either, but, well, again, pretty sure that's just because Toei didn't remember that Multi-Form is supposed to be splitting your power.
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- Location
- Australia
Krillin and Piccolo used the inferior form of Multiform that split their power, it wasn't what Cell used.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I think if we're investing so much into multiform for action purposes, making it fully combat viable is an excellent goal - just not an immediate one. And as for seer training, it's very likely that putting more actions in both this turn and the next still wouldn't be enough to level, and we'd be better off putting our points elsewhere for now.
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KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
[X] Plan Aranfan
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
If a plan without slack wins I will be very upset. I proved - with maths - that any other option is an explicit waste of actions for absolutely no gain. It doesn't tie us to the Garenhulders' world, that's what our friends are for. It's just pointless, and at a time when we clearly need every action we can get.
- Location
- United States
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Cell Juniors?
Okay, maybe ease up a bit?
@PoptartProdigy , can you clarify if choosing anything besides Slack is "completely pointless" and/or "stupid", as is being proposed by some, or if there are at least some benefits, background or otherwise, to choosing Maintain Grades?
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
See, that bolded part there is why people are not paying attention to you. Most of us come from a culture in which knowledge equals success, Kakara is supposed to be the Smart protagonist and people are reluctant to vote for anything that would make us worse as something. If you want us to pick slacking, you should focusing less on telling us that our grades don't matter and more in that the chance of loss is minimal while increasing them again is easy. You should be aiming for compromise instead of telling people they are wrong or that they shouldn't make the charácter as Smart as it can be, otherwise the knee-jerk reaction will be voting against slacking. The system is not designed to vote the best option when presented but to vote the one who is presented as the most attractive.
In this case, for example, you should be saying that, if the grades do drop, we will pick increase grades next turn AND ask mom to help us with it since with her Elite level teaching doubling our skill gain and how Smart Kakara is, we would probably get similar results then as if we chose it now and jump to straight A. You should also avoid saying it is useless or equate Math to education since there is more to it than mathematics and our education was specialized to learn IT. Finally, you should pretend to care about her job opportunities on her Masque and never imply anything that could degrade or make worse Kakara in any of her skills.
Though I do want to point out that our Mum is a teacher so obviously SHE cares about our education. A grade drop might imply having a conversation with her and grounding pending on us improving them. In which case, you should point out that your plan is contingent on us choosing to improve our grades anyways if they drop.
Of course, then you have to consider that last time we chose to ignore some aspect of the masque (socializing) we were forced to choose whether to interact with the Misfits and risk losing an action or not and make them suspiscious. In this case, grade drop might mean motherly intervention, which we can't avoid the risk of losing a RANDOM action so that we can improve them. In which case, you should point that none of the ones chosen this turn are absolutely needed to be done this turn.
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- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Fine, I'll tone it down. I'm just annoyed people are ignoring my maths. And also at the implication that by choosing Slacking we're actually, well, slacking - we're choosing it to focus our energies on learning and improving elsewhere.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
It was less about toning it down than suggesting that changing your pitch if an approach doesn't work might give better results.
Those are not multiform and when I asked they said that was not what they were talking about when referring to Cell's perfect multiform.
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Those aren't Multi-Forms, they're more like Demon King Piccolo's spawn.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Sorry, I don't understand this point. Are you suggesting that by losing a grade this turn we might lose an action next turn improving them? Isn't that the same as the plan for keeping our grades the same over two turns anyway?
That's the maths, if anyone missed it and is wondering why I'm annoyed. It's not that we're picking an option I disagree with, it's that there's an objectively better route to the same results. EDIT: I'll point out that increasing our grades from B to A would be easier enough that "almost certain to succeed" would likely become "will succeed".
I brought up the multiform as an example of some advanced learning we're probably going to do in the future that would be impacted by Ki Manipulation. I haven't seen the anime (unless you count abridged
) and it wasn't in the manga, but the wiki lists it as being Multiform with 3 extra bodies at your maximum power level, which I thought looked pretty great given all the actions we're spending on multiform - and poptart confirmed that it was a thing known of by the exiles, just not how to perform it.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies
Mathematically superior in a proved way. Plus, we have a war to prep for.
Mathematically superior in a proved way. Plus, we have a war to prep for.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Right, allow me to explain. During the first year turn, we chose to ignore socializing as Kallen. However, Sophie noticed we were always alone and offered to be our friend, integrating us into the Misfits. That time, we had to make a choice: we could have rejected her friendship, in which case we would have been marked as weird at school since we actively chose to be a loner which would have made them suspiscious. Or we could have done as we did and befriend them, in which case since we had already allocated all our time for the year we were pressed for time and had to roll to see if we could make time for them, with us losing a random action for the time for that year if we failed. At that point, @PoptartProdigy mentioned he liked to include random events like that one in the yearly turns to mix things up and the next year we had the whole Jaron thing; however, what we gathered from that instance is that sometimes there are concecuences that are not included in the actions since they are common sense: example, having no human Friends marking us as weird when disguised as human.
In this case, I am pointing that us dropping a grade might cause a similar problem. Our mother is a school teacher and she chose that job. Common sense dictates that she thinks education is important because of it. Furthermore, she is Elite at teaching so she is very good at it and put the time to become that good, plus she is likely the one who designed Kakara's childhood education to make it so that, as you like to point out, she knows calculus before she is ten. All of this shows that she cares about her daughter's education so, if even though she has had a pretty advanced one she drops her grades, she will realize that something is wrong and try to correct it. Given that events interrupting our yearly turns are a thing, she is more likely to do something about it as son as she notices the problem rather tan waiting for next year, which means remedial lessons with her, which means time constraints, which means we risk losing a random action this turn, among other things like higher scrutiny in the next ones.
All these things are not explicitly stated but they are things that are natural consecuences and that should be taken into account when planning since they have been shown to matter. When I pointed it out to you, I did so with the intention of telling you that you should adjust your pitch to make it seem like the chance of that happening were smaller tan they are and that if it does happen the concecuences wouldn't be as dire since your plan is more focused on training than time sensitive things but if you hadn't noticed...
Edit: Basically, if with how Smart Kakara is her grades drop anyways, that is a pretty big indication for her mother to notice something is up. We don't have much information about her but the one we do have seems to point that she would take action if that were to happen.
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