Dragon Ball: After the End

[Deathbybunnies]

Right, allow me to explain. During the first year turn, we chose to ignore socializing as Kallen. However, Sophie noticed we were always alone and offered to be our friend, integrating us into the Misfits. That time, we had to make a choice: we could have rejected her friendship, in which case we would have been marked as weird at school since we actively chose to be a loner which would have made them suspiscious. Or we could have done as we did and befriend them, in which case since we had already allocated all our time for the year we were pressed for time and had to roll to see if we could make time for them, with us losing a random action for the time for that year if we failed. At that point, @PoptartProdigy mentioned he liked to include random events like that one in the yearly turns to mix things up and the next year we had the whole Jaron thing; however, what we gathered from that instance is that sometimes there are concecuences that are not included in the actions since they are common sense: example, having no human Friends marking us as weird when disguised as human.

In this case, I am pointing that us dropping a grade might cause a similar problem. Our mother is a school teacher and she chose that job. Common sense dictates that she thinks education is important because of it. Furthermore, she is Elite at teaching so she is very good at it and put the time to become that good, plus she is likely the one who designed Kakara's childhood education to make it so that, as you like to point out, she knows calculus before she is ten. All of this shows that she cares about her daughter's education so, if even though she has had a pretty advanced one she drops her grades, she will realize that something is wrong and try to correct it. Given that events interrupting our yearly turns are a thing, she is more likely to do something about it as son as she notices the problem rather tan waiting for next year, which means remedial lessons with her, which means time constraints, which means we risk losing a random action this turn, among other things like higher scrutiny in the next ones.

All these things are not explicitly stated but they are things that are natural consecuences and that should be taken into account when planning since they have been shown to matter. When I pointed it out to you, I did so with the intention of telling you that you should adjust your pitch to make it seem like the chance of that happening were smaller tan they are and that if it does happen the concecuences wouldn't be as dire since your plan is more focused on training than time sensitive things but if you hadn't noticed...

Click to shrink...

That honestly sounds extremely unlikely from an A- to B drop. Mom's a Saiyan, so she'd know how hard we were working on other things - and you've pretty much invented this scenario from whole cloth. If we fail twice in a row and go from B to C I could see her insisting that we improve our grades next year, but given all of the training we're doing (some of it with her!) for the role of Scion and an upcoming war - both of which would be more important, even for someone who prizes education - I very much doubt that such a thing would happen. Again, it's not that we're slacking overall, it's that we're focusing on learning more important things, at least in the short term.

 

[ElleonXan]

I would like to point out that the whole "slack until you literally can't anymore" idea is a bit ridiculous. Sure, the math adds up in a way, but only if you remove the human element.

For instance, our character is still growing and developing. Getting into a habit of slacking now could effect future actions and weigh them against us... hobbling us in the future. Sure, as has been pointed out, it's just elementary school now. But what about when it goes up into secondary, or higher, education? I can honestly see us "saving time" now by slacking, and losing a lot more in the future when we actually have to work for our grades but don't know how... thus wasting more time inefficiently studying.

Also, how will slacking effect our relationships? Honestly, the way I read it, our friends are already a bit jealous that we never seemed to study but still did really well. If we continue this, (and luck out on the rolls) will they become resentful that we're showing them up without really trying? And if we drop grades, will they respect us less? And what about our family? Honestly, I can totally see our father seeing us go down a grade and believing that we're taking too much on ourselves. One of the main reasons we're so trusted is that we come off as mature and intelligent. But if our dad sees us working ourselves too hard, mightn't that damage or destroy that trust? And from there it's only a step away to having him step in and force us to take time off for our own good... thus losing us actions in the future.

Honestly, in the long run repeatedly slacking seems like a generally losing proposition, maybe a long-shot, high stakes bet at best.

Thus, I have to go with:

[x] Plan Aranfan

 

[Bakkasama]

That honestly sounds extremely unlikely from an A- to B drop. Mom's a Saiyan, so she'd know how hard we were working on other things - and you've pretty much invented this scenario from whole cloth. If we fail twice in a row and go from B to C I could see her insisting that we improve our grades next year, but given all of the training we're doing (some of it with her!) for the role of Scion and an upcoming war - both of which would be more important, even for someone who prizes education - I very much doubt that such a thing would happen. Again, it's not that we're slacking overall, it's that we're focusing on learning more important things, at least in the short term.

Click to shrink...

Part of me (the grounded one) wants to agree with you. The other one is pointing out that the lives of a noble house, the freedom of an innocent and the success of our treasonous world shaking conspiracy might be dependant on our elementary school grades. And that's glorious.

I mean, if this were just a story I would love to see something so silly come to pass. But given that this is a quest, I just wanted to make sure that you are aware that slacking at school might have unforeseen consequences.

 

[Ridiculously Average Guy]

Question.

Given how he's been locked in Super Saiyan form, and is trapped in an empty featureless room with nothing much to do but train and see through Jaron's eyes sometimes...What if Jaffur accidentally goes SS2?

Edit: If he has enough energy, it would really only require him to experiencing intense emotional upheaval IIRC. So, if (for example) Jaron were to be hurt and he could do nothing about it...

 

[Deathbybunnies]

For instance, our character is still growing and developing. Getting into a habit of slacking now could effect future actions and weigh them against us... hobbling us in the future. Sure, as has been pointed out, it's just elementary school now. But what about when it goes up into secondary, or higher, education? I can honestly see us "saving time" now by slacking, and losing a lot more in the future when we actually have to work for our grades but don't know how... thus wasting more time inefficiently studying.

Click to shrink...

We will not in any way be forming a "slacking" habit. We currently (by word of GM) carefully plan and use every moment of time to eke out more time to train and so forth. We have taken this to an entirely new level by learning to be in two places at once, just so we can work harder. We are simply choosing to work harder elsewhere.

Also, how will slacking effect our relationships? Honestly, the way I read it, our friends are already a bit jealous that we never seemed to study but still did really well. If we continue this, (and luck out on the rolls) will they become resentful that we're showing them up without really trying? And if we drop grades, will they respect us less?

Click to shrink...

They weren't jealous, they were concerned that we were going to lose a grade, since to a regular Garenhulder that would actually matter. Have you ever had a friend who's smarter than you? I have. Why would I resent him? I'm plenty smart, he's just smarter. I'm taller. These things happen. Similarly, if my friend got Bs instead of A-s, it would not have significantly impacted my opinion of him.

And what about our family? Honestly, I can totally see our father seeing us go down a grade and believing that we're taking too much on ourselves. One of the main reasons we're so trusted is that we come off as mature and intelligent. But if our dad sees us working ourselves too hard, mightn't that damage or destroy that trust? And from there it's only a step away to having him step in and force us to take time off for our own good... thus losing us actions in the future.

Click to shrink...

We've been working hard this entire time. One of the fundamental, core traits of Saiyan culture can be described as "push yourself to your limit". We've trained ourselves to the bone with Dad, and no such "you're working too hard" sentiment was ever expressed. Remember, to Saiyans the Masquerade is a means to an end - to not be detected. Other Saiyans (using Fenella as an example) are surprised that we'd want to introduce them to our Garenhulder friends. We're already outside of Saiyan cultural norms. And worrying about us working too hard over a single letter grade? I'm not suggesting we play truant or fail the class, just that we take a less-than-50% risk of going from an A- to a B. If I'd gone home and told my mom that was the case, she'd be mildly disappointed - and my mom knows I'm not training to become a Saiyan noble and fight a war.

If we drop a grade for the first time and then drop to a C again, then I could see our mom telling us to work harder. But I really feel you're attaching far too much importance to a single primary school letter grade, when we're plotting literal treason and need the actions to deal with that.

Part of me (the grounded one) wants to agree with you. The other one is pointing out that the lives of a noble house, the freedom of an innocent and the success of our treasonous world shaking conspiracy might be dependant on our elementary school grades. And that's glorious.

I mean, if this were just a story I would love to see something so silly come to pass. But given that this is a quest, I just wanted to make sure that you are aware that slacking at school might have unforeseen consequences.

Click to shrink...

It would just be such an incredible overreaction over such a minor thing. Maybe if we did it again and dropped to a C.

Question.

Given how he's been locked in Super Saiyan form, and is trapped in an empty featureless room with nothing much to do but train and see through Jaron's eyes sometimes...What if Jaffur accidentally goes SS2?

Click to shrink...

A terrifying thought. But is he training, or just being angry? And isn't he calming down, interacting with Jaron? EDIT: And can he even transform to SS1 in a way that isn't purely mental? Jaron isn't giving out massive furious Ki readings.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

Actually you know what, we can prove this like we did the maths. @PoptartProdigy , how likely does Kakara think it is that her parents will come down on her like a tonne of bricks and limit her Saiyan training if she drops a letter grade in her Masque form?

 

[anailater]

Actually you know what, we can prove this like we did the maths. @PoptartProdigy , how likely does Kakara think it is that her parents will come down on her like a tonne of bricks and limit her Saiyan training if she drops a letter grade in her Masque form?

Click to shrink...

And follow up @PoptartProdigy How likely are we to gain some kind of slacker trait

 

[Bakkasama]

Actually you know what, we can prove this like we did the maths. @PoptartProdigy , how likely does Kakara think it is that her parents will come down on her like a tonne of bricks and limit her Saiyan training if she drops a letter grade in her Masque form?

Click to shrink...

You should probably rephrase that as "How likely does Kakara think it is her parents will make her focus on her studies if she drops a letter grade in her Masque form?" since if we lose time and action it would be for the things we are doing without them knowing.

And follow up @PoptartProdigy How likely are we to gain some kind of slacker trait

Click to shrink...

More like some disconected/disinterested in masquerade trait.

 

[The Fourth Monado]

Question.

Given how he's been locked in Super Saiyan form, and is trapped in an empty featureless room with nothing much to do but train and see through Jaron's eyes sometimes...What if Jaffur accidentally goes SS2?

Edit: If he has enough energy, it would really only require him to experiencing intense emotional upheaval IIRC. So, if (for example) Jaron were to be hurt and he could do nothing about it...

Click to shrink...

Super Saiyan 2 is not unlocked through simple emotion.

 

[Bommelom]

More like some disconected/disinterested in masquerade trait.

Click to shrink...

I doubt we'll get that as long as we continue to spend time with Jaron and the Misfits.

 

[anailater]

You should probably rephrase that as "How likely does Kakara think it is her parents will make her focus on her studies if she drops a letter grade in her Masque form?" since if we lose time and action it would be for the things we are doing without them knowing.

More like some disconected/disinterested in masquerade trait.

Click to shrink...

I dont particularly like school but I like talking to friends
does that mean I dont think life is worth it?

Or to wrap it closer into our situation. Let's say someone knows they're going to have major money issues in a few months, so they focus hard on work so they wont starve or lose their house, does that mean they dont want to have a social life, no it means they cant right now.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

You should probably rephrase that as "How likely does Kakara think it is her parents will make her focus on her studies if she drops a letter grade in her Masque form?" since if we lose time and action it would be for the things we are doing without them knowing.

Click to shrink...

But that would be fine? That would be the 1+3 option in my maths, i.e. the same outcome as 2+2 except a more than 50% chance to save 2 actions, and a lower up-front cost so we can put more actions towards getting more actions to offset any cost increase.

More like some disconected/disinterested in masquerade trait.

Click to shrink...

We're still maintaining a healthy social life with our Garenhulder friends by word of QM, so that's not a thing.

Super Saiyan 2 is not unlocked through simple emotion.

Click to shrink...

Good to know!

 

[Aranfan]

Actually you know what, we can prove this like we did the maths.

Click to shrink...

You didn't actually prove anything with the math. Given a priority set that devalues school relative to other things, you showed that the most efficient use of time is to not spend as much time on school. But I would wager the people voting for me don't share that priority set. People will make time for what they care about, I think Kakara should care about the human world and school.

 

[ElleonXan]

In the interest of not turning this into a personal argument, let me just say this: I wasn't saying that this one instance of slacking is The End of the World. I was arguing that the idea that "slacking is inherently superior to studying for our character" is a bad idea.

We will not in any way be forming a "slacking" habit. We currently (by word of GM) carefully plan and use every moment of time to eke out more time to train and so forth. We have taken this to an entirely new level by learning to be in two places at once, just so we can work harder. We are simply choosing to work harder elsewhere.

Click to shrink...

I'm not saying that we're going to turn into a slacker. I'm pointing out that if we continue to put the minimal amount of effort into internalizing school lessons, the more difficult we'll find it to internalize those lessons later when they're not as easy. I'm speaking from personal experience here, as this is the problem I had in my last year of high school. I was intelligent enough to coast through the rest and I did, so when I got into classes like calculus (which I couldn't do in my head) it hit me like a ton of bricks. I probably had the hardest time that year out of all my friends because I had to learn how to learn something I didn't want to learn: something that my friends were all already good at.

They weren't jealous, they were concerned that we were going to lose a grade, since to a regular Garenhulder that would actually matter. Have you ever had a friend who's smarter than you? I have. Why would I resent him? I'm plenty smart, he's just smarter. I'm taller. These things happen. Similarly, if my friend got Bs instead of A-s, it would not have significantly impacted my opinion of him.

Click to shrink...

Have I ever had a friend smarter than me? Yes. Was I jealous of him? Of course... the guy was doing college level math in middle school. Did I resent him? No, he was a nice guy and didn't rub it in anyone's face... but it could have easily lead to that if he were. It's just human nature. If you see someone who's really good at something, you can get jealous. It won't always happen, but it does happen enough. And if that person seemingly rubs your face in it, say by getting As without even trying, then yeah, it can breed resentment... especially if you have to work hard for the grades you get.

We've been working hard this entire time. One of the fundamental, core traits of Saiyan culture can be described as "push yourself to your limit". We've trained ourselves to the bone with Dad, and no such "you're working too hard" sentiment was ever expressed. Remember, to Saiyans the Masquerade is a means to an end - to not be detected. Other Saiyans (using Fenella as an example) are surprised that we'd want to introduce them to our Garenhulder friends. We're already outside of Saiyan cultural norms. And worrying about us working too hard over a single letter grade? I'm not suggesting we play truant or fail the class, just that we take a less-than-50% risk of going from an A- to a B. If I'd gone home and told my mom that was the case, she'd be mildly disappointed - and my mom knows I'm not training to become a Saiyan noble and fight a war.

If we drop a grade for the first time and then drop to a C again, then I could see our mom telling us to work harder. But I really feel you're attaching far too much importance to a single primary school letter grade, when we're plotting literal treason and need the actions to deal with that.

Click to shrink...

Bolded several parts for empasis.

For the first: it's less "you're working too hard" and more "you're trying to take too much on yourself". That's my mistake, I wrote it out unclearly. But my point still stands. The reason we have so much freedom and respect is because we're seen as mature: we're doing a lot of things, even adult things, and succeeding... not just succeeding, but excelling. If our school grades drop across the board, however, it shows that we're no longer managing to... well, manage... our time well. If we're not even able to maintain grades in what should by all rights be a very easy school setting, it says to our parents that we're having difficulty... that we're pushing ourselves to do too much. Sure, maybe dad or mom won't come down on us like a load of bricks, but they will be keeping a closer eye on us to help us out if we've taken on more than we can handle. And if they think we can't handle what we've gotten ourselves into, then maybe- just maybe- they'll step in and force us to drop something so we don't burn ourselves out... that is, if they are any sort of parental unit worth the title at all.

Second: maybe I missed it, but would you mind pointing out where we're told definitively that if we drop a grade, it will go from an A- to a B instead of say a B-. Oh, it has nothing to do with this disagreement, I'm just a bit curious.

And finally, and this is something I didn't really think of until you pointed it out, but honestly I think you're placing far too little importance on the chance that we'll lose grades and get increased scrutiny on us when we're plotting literal treason. I don't know for sure, but I honestly think that if you're in a secret conspiracy to commit treason, rule number one should be: Don't draw undue attention to yourself.

And let me say, once again, that I'm not arguing against ONE single instance of slacking, just that doing it over and over again would be a bad idea.

I dont particularly like school but I like talking to friends
does that mean I dont think life is worth it?

Or to wrap it closer into our situation. Let's say someone knows they're going to have major money issues in a few months, so they focus hard on work so they wont starve or lose their house, does that mean they dont want to have a social life, no it means they cant right now.

Click to shrink...

Or to flip it around, let's say someone is clinically depressed but still has fun with their friends... does that fun mean that they are no longer depressed? No, it just means that they have ways to alleviate their depression. The same is true here. We can have friends in the masquerade, even ones that we enjoy spending time with, and still be disinterested/dismissive of the masquerade as a whole.

Not that I, personally, expect us to pick up a trait like that... but I just wanted to point out that it IS possible.

Oh, and just let me preemptively apologize if I came off too angry. I'm just coming off of a bad bout of sickness, so perhaps I'm a bit more angry and confrontational than I should be.

 

[eaglejarl]

[X] Plan Deathbybunnies

 

[Aranfan]

Vote tally:
##### 3.19
[X] Plan Andres110
-[X] Slack (1 action): You have better things to do! Slack off on schoolwork to focus on other pursuits. Effect: Possible grade loss. You're smart and this is primary school, you have a decent chance of not dropping a grade.
-[X] Best Fit (1 action): Jaron has been brought into the Misfits, but as reclusive as he is he doesn't seem to know how to make the effort to really push into the group's dynamic. It's up to you and your friends to make him feel welcome, and this is your part in it. Effect: Do your part to make Jaron feel welcome in the group.
-[X]Nosy Little Girl (1 action): You've noticed lately that Maya has been acting...strangely. She's been giving you strange looks, and only recently stopped, starting to act a lot more comfortable around you. Maybe you're being paranoid, but you want to know what's up. Effects: Poke Maya, asking her what's up.
-[X] Train Multiform
--[X] Ask Dad for Seer assistance
-[X] Train Multiform
--[X] Ask Dad for Seer assistance
-[X] Command Training (1 action): You will be expected to lead your Clan if war comes. You may as well be good at it. Effect: Learn the art of battlefield command. Gain Leadership skill and set your starting skill level. Your mindset won't impact you as badly here.
-[X] Train With Sensei (1 action): Nothing for it but time. Effect: Grind your talent in Seer abilities. Sensei tells you that this will be gruelingly hard, and take years to master no matter how much of a prodigy you are.
-[X] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Mind Projection]
-[X] Socialize! (Fennella)
-[X] Family First (Mato)
-[X] A Scion's Duties III (1 action): You have a comprehensive knowledge of the way Clan Goku functions, a general overview of Clan Vegeta, and are an effective and renowned communicator. It's time to finish your theoretical education by completing your knowledge of Clan Vegeta and expanding your training in how to manipulate and mediate between others. Effect: Learn the art of diplomacy and Clan management at the feet of your father, improving your Communication and Intrigue skills and learning about the practical side of managing hundreds upon thousands of Saiyans who all want a fight.
-[X] Get Organized (1 action): Presently your conspiracy is more like two separate plots running in tandem; you and the Senzus, and then whatever Grandma is doing. You need to get everybody in the same room together so that you all can unify your efforts and share all available information. Effects: Figure out just what Grandma has been up to and what assets she can lend to things. Share information and work out a unified plan of action. As this involves you, Grandma, and the Senzus in the same room at the very least even before including anybody you bring in this year, this is highly treasonous and will involve an event series. The possibility of discovery does exist, although with your current precautions is fairly unlikely.
-[X] New Tricks (Telepathy)
No. of votes: 1
Andres110
[x] Plan Aranfan
[x] Maintain Grades (2 actions): You're good where you are. Let's just get the effort in to stick it out and then focus on other things. Effect: Maintain grades.
[x] Best Fit (1 action): Jaron has been brought into the Misfits, but as reclusive as he is he doesn't seem to know how to make the effort to really push into the group's dynamic. It's up to you and your friends to make him feel welcome, and this is your part in it. Effect: Do your part to make Jaron feel welcome in the group.
[x] Nosy Little Girl (1 action): You've noticed lately that Maya has been acting...strangely. She's been giving you strange looks, and only recently stopped, starting to act a lot more comfortable around you. Maybe you're being paranoid, but you want to know what's up. Effects: Poke Maya, asking her what's up.
[x] Learn Tenshinhan Style x2
[x] Train Multiform
[x] Command Training
[x] Train with Sensei
[x] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Mind Projection] (1 action)
[x] Family First
[x] A Scion's Duty III
[x] Get organized
No. of votes: 6
Aranfan, Karnax626, veekie, KnightDisciple, Bommelom, ElleonXan
[x] Maintain Grades (2 actions):
[x] Best Fit (1 action):.
[x]Nosy Little Girl (1 action)
[x] The Power of Learning (Medicine) 1 action
[x]Train Ki Manipulation
[X] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Ki Sight] (1 action):
[x] Socialise: Carrick Balor
[x] Socialise: Fennella Peat
[X] Get Organised
No. of votes: 1
Sucal
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies
[X] Slack (1 action)
[X] Best Fit (1 action)
[X] Train Ki Manipulation (2 actions)
[X] Command Training (1 action)
[X] Train Style[Tien Shinhan] (1 action)
[X] Train Specific Skill (1 action, may be taken multiple times) Multiform
[X] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Write-In Specific Technique] (1 action) Mind Projection
[X] Family First (1 action) Mato
[X] A Scion's Duties III (1 action)
[X] Get Organized (1 action)
[X] New Tricks (1 action) Telepathy
[X] The Examined Life (1 action) Driven
-[X] If we think it'll help, ask our family for their thoughts
No. of votes: 7
Deathbybunnies, GilliamYaeger, The king Chad, anailater, faflec, ChronOblivion, eaglejarl
[X] Plan Chi Chi
[X] Raise Grades
[X] Power of Learning
-[X] Medicine
-[X] Quantum Physics
-[X] Rocket Science
-[X] Law
-[X] Archeology
-[X] Thermodynamics
-[X] Psychology
-[X] Accounting
-[X] Neuroscience
No. of votes: 1
Mortifer
[X] Plan Ultimate Friends
-[X] Slack (1 action)
-[X] Best Fit (1 action)
-[X] Loose Lips Lead To Ultimate Power (1 action)
-[X] Nosy Little Girl (1 action)
-[X] Train Multiform
-[X] Command Training (1 action)
-[X] Train With Sensei (1 action)
-[X] Beg Sensei To Teach You[Mind Projection] (1 action)
-[X] Socialize! (1 action, may be taken multiple times)
--[X] Fenella
-[X] Family First (1 action)
-[X] A Scion's Duties III (1 action)
-[X] Get Organized (1 action)
-[X] Sound Out Sensei (1 action)
No. of votes: 1
Gore17

 

[Sucal]

[x]Plan Aranfan

NO SLACKING

 

[Cytokinesis]

I think I'll weigh in on

[x] Plan Aranfan

For two reasons. One, that the other leading plan doesn't train with Sensei. Two, I do think Kakara should care about school. We've seen multiple times that mental health checks are a big part of the game and we've already seen some reactions from our friends to slacking last year. I agree with a lot of the other reasoning too and I think this kind of habit can build up to pretty bad things.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

You didn't actually prove anything with the math. Given a priority set that devalues school relative to other things, you showed that the most efficient use of time is to not spend as much time on school. But I would wager the people voting for me don't share that priority set. People will make time for what they care about, I think Kakara should care about the human world and school.

Click to shrink...

But if we end up with the same grades (by spending 1+3 on a failure), then we demonstrate in-character that slipping a grade isn't acceptable to her. And plenty of people don't particularly care for school, but pretty much everyone cares about their friends. The largest part of our social life by a long way is spent with Garenhulders. How could we not care about them?

A lot of people here clearly care a lot about out primary school grades. And you know what? That's fine. If we do in fact slip a grade, if the current crisis doesn't turn into a full-blown emergency. In fact, if we come across entrance exams to secondary schools? I would, even before this discussion, have voted for spending time to do well in them, in an effort to stick with our friends. I'm not even arguing in favour of outright long-term neglect of our Masque stuff. In 3 years time, when the invasion is over, I am absolutely planning to go back to voting for improving Masque affinity, increasing socialisation, etc. (but still voting to oscillate between slacking and working really hard to get our grades up, to maintain action efficiency) and even voting to learn useful stuff. But right now? Our civilisation is facing a crisis, and I just feel that for the next 3 years we have bigger problems to worry about than our primary school grades - I don't remember any of my primary school grades..

In the interest of not turning this into a personal argument, let me just say this: I wasn't saying that this one instance of slacking is The End of the World. I was arguing that the idea that "slacking is inherently superior to studying for our character" is a bad idea.

Click to shrink...

Fair enough! I would argue that we are still studying, we're just studying other things.

I'm not saying that we're going to turn into a slacker. I'm pointing out that if we continue to put the minimal amount of effort into internalizing school lessons, the more difficult we'll find it to internalize those lessons later when they're not as easy. I'm speaking from personal experience here, as this is the problem I had in my last year of high school. I was intelligent enough to coast through the rest and I did, so when I got into classes like calculus (which I couldn't do in my head) it hit me like a ton of bricks. I probably had the hardest time that year out of all my friends because I had to learn how to learn something I didn't want to learn: something that my friends were all already good at.

Click to shrink...

A similar thing happened to me! I'm arguing that if we prioritise maintaining our grades in the long run, we should do exactly that; slack until our grade drops, and then work hard until it's back to where it was. It got me through school!

Have I ever had a friend smarter than me? Yes. Was I jealous of him? Of course... the guy was doing college level math in middle school. Did I resent him? No, he was a nice guy and didn't rub it in anyone's face... but it could have easily lead to that if he were. It's just human nature. If you see someone who's really good at something, you can get jealous. It won't always happen, but it does happen enough. And if that person seemingly rubs your face in it, say by getting As without even trying, then yeah, it can breed resentment... especially if you have to work hard for the grades you get.

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Jealousy I can see - it's natural to be jealous of what other people have and you don't. But resentment? Because we're doing well for being smart? I don't think that would happen between friends.

For the first: it's less "you're working too hard" and more "you're trying to take too much on yourself". That's my mistake, I wrote it out unclearly. But my point still stands. The reason we have so much freedom and respect is because we're seen as mature: we're doing a lot of things, even adult things, and succeeding... not just succeeding, but excelling. If our school grades drop across the board, however, it shows that we're no longer managing to... well, manage... our time well. If we're not even able to maintain grades in what should by all rights be a very easy school setting, it says to our parents that we're having difficulty... that we're pushing ourselves to do too much. Sure, maybe dad or mom won't come down on us like a load of bricks, but they will be keeping a closer eye on us to help us out if we've taken on more than we can handle. And if they think we can't handle what we've gotten ourselves into, then maybe- just maybe- they'll step in and force us to drop something so we don't burn ourselves out... that is, if they are any sort of parental unit worth the title at all.

Second: maybe I missed it, but would you mind pointing out where we're told definitively that if we drop a grade, it will go from an A- to a B instead of say a B-. Oh, it has nothing to do with this disagreement, I'm just a bit curious.

And finally, and this is something I didn't really think of until you pointed it out, but honestly I think you're placing far too little importance on the chance that we'll lose grades and get increased scrutiny on us when we're plotting literal treason. I don't know for sure, but I honestly think that if you're in a secret conspiracy to commit treason, rule number one should be: Don't draw undue attention to yourself.

And let me say, once again, that I'm not arguing against ONE single instance of slacking, just that doing it over and over again would be a bad idea.

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We've been working hard for years, and dropping a grade is a perfectly normal occurrence. I don't think this will merit more than a single conversation, especially if next year we make up the difference.

I think I've been going by last year's definition of "dropping a letter grade". I hadn't noticed the change, but unless we fail the roll really really badly I think it's a fair estimate still.

And again, I don't think it will get us much scrutiny.

Or to flip it around, let's say someone is clinically depressed but still has fun with their friends... does that fun mean that they are no longer depressed? No, it just means that they have ways to alleviate their depression. The same is true here. We can have friends in the masquerade, even ones that we enjoy spending time with, and still be disinterested/dismissive of the masquerade as a whole.

Not that I, personally, expect us to pick up a trait like that... but I just wanted to point out that it IS possible.

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I think that our previous Masquerade efforts (including training ourselves to 60% while Masqued) will prevent that.

Oh, and just let me preemptively apologize if I came off too angry. I'm just coming off of a bad bout of sickness, so perhaps I'm a bit more angry and confrontational than I should be.

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Not at all! I myself have been getting pretty confrontational, like I'm talking at cross-purposes with a lot of people here, and I think I've finally figured out why. I'm going to put it in a second post so I can put this up while I gather my thoughts.

 

[Aranfan]

But if we end up with the same grades (by spending 1+3 on a failure), then we demonstrate in-character that slipping a grade isn't acceptable to her. And plenty of people don't particularly care for school, but pretty much everyone cares about their friends. The largest part of our social life by a long way is spent with Garenhulders. How could we not care about them?

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There are several unspoken assumptions here. Firstly: The important part of school is only grades. Secondly: That caring about school in and of itself is a negative, or at least weird. Thirdly: That something that results in mathematically the same time spent on a thing indicates equal prioritization on a thing.

All three of these things is up to dispute. Firstly, most of the people voting for me are probably of the opinion that the process of learning is the important part about school, and that we should spend time on that. Secondly, I just flat disagree. Thirdly: The different ways to spend time indicate very different things. Your way implies that Kakara considers it fine to coast until she can't, while my way indicates Kakara does care enough about school to not let her grades slip in the first place.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

So I think I've figured out where this disagreement is coming from, at its' core. I've been arguing that not picking slack this turn is objectively the wrong choice, and given that we can spend three actions next turn making up any errors and showing Kakara's commitment to learning, and I stand by that. But many of you have been hearing "well, I think we can metagame best in this way and damn the character!" And that's not the case, and I apologise for giving that impression.

Kakara is a social, intelligent girl who has a love of learning and doesn't like fighting. She's a quirky oddball, thinking outside the box, and she cares about Garenhulders more than most Saiyans seem to, and right now a lot of you guys think we should show this by spending more time learning.

I think differently.

Kakara is a Driven individual, who has spent the last 2 years training herself relentlessly, doing all she can to better herself. She has a Cause, from when she saw her counterpart Jaffur unjustly imprisoned, and swore herself an enemy of Dandeer Vegeta, and that she would do all she could to see him freed. She's a Pacifist, who finds herself facing an invading alien army that will attempt to bring ruin down upon all she knows and loves. She's Compassionate, and this state of affairs threatens all of innocent Garenhuld.

I've been making arguments purely in meta terms, and for that I apologise, for it was not my underlying cause for arguing this much over a single point. I think Kakara Goku is a good person, blessed with great power, who sees all she loves threatened, and I don't think she's okay with that. I think she would do anything in her power to see this, her family and friends safe, to see Jaffur freed.

You've been thinking that Kakara Goku is the sort of person who'd study in school to keep her grades. I think Kakara Goku is a good person in a terrible situation, who's going to do all she can to protect her friends and family. And if she has to blow off some schoolwork to do that, I think she will.

I only hope you think about it, and decide you think so too.

 

[Aranfan]

But many of you have been hearing "well, I think we can metagame best in this way and damn the character!" And that's not the case, and I apologise for giving that impression.

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Part of it is that we've already spent last turn slacking on the same rationale of "this turn not slacking is just a waste of time". So if we don't nip it in the bud now it's going to become a pattern.

 

[The Fourth Monado]

So I think I've figured out where this disagreement is coming from, at its' core. I've been arguing that not picking slack this turn is objectively the wrong choice, and given that we can spend three actions next turn making up any errors and showing Kakara's commitment to learning, and I stand by that. But many of you have been hearing "well, I think we can metagame best in this way and damn the character!" And that's not the case, and I apologise for giving that impression.

Kakara is a social, intelligent girl who has a love of learning and doesn't like fighting. She's a quirky oddball, thinking outside the box, and she cares about Garenhulders more than most Saiyans seem to, and right now a lot of you guys think we should show this by spending more time learning.

I think differently.

Kakara is a Driven individual, who has spent the last 2 years training herself relentlessly, doing all she can to better herself. She has a Cause, from when she saw her counterpart Jaffur unjustly imprisoned, and swore herself an enemy of Dandeer Vegeta, and that she would do all she could to see him freed. She's a Pacifist, who finds herself facing an invading alien army that will attempt to bring ruin down upon all she knows and loves. She's Compassionate, and this state of affairs threatens all of innocent Garenhuld.

I've been making arguments purely in meta terms, and for that I apologise, for it was not my underlying cause for arguing this much over a single point. I think Kakara Goku is a good person, blessed with great power, who sees all she loves threatened, and I don't think she's okay with that. I think she would do anything in her power to see this, her family and friends safe, to see Jaffur freed.

You've been thinking that Kakara Goku is the sort of person who'd study in school to keep her grades. I think Kakara Goku is a good person in a terrible situation, who's going to do all she can to protect her friends and family. And if she has to blow off some schoolwork to do that, I think she will.

I only hope you think about it, and decide you think so too.

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...Welp, can't argue with this resoning.

[X] Plan Deathbybunnies

 

[Cytokinesis]

Learning is a skill. Critical thinking is a skill.

You have to practice skills in order to get good at them. There's a reason it takes years to teach people.

Also, yes, let's not make a pattern of slacking. Once in a while when we need an immediate boost, maybe, but we've already seen signs of consequences and our timeline is not so pressing (and the plan is not so much better) that I would favor it.

And it doesn't matter if you're saying "Just this turn!", because you're not the only player in the game and it makes it that much easier for the pattern to continue next time.


Edit: Also, there are a ton of other possible consequences we identified that don't have anything to do with the "pattern". An obvious one being our parents wondering what we're taking up so much time with and staging interventions, which can range from something annoying but manageable "Required to take the 3 action one next turn with Mom" to pretty disastrous of "Dad stealthily finds out what we're spending time on" in terms of severity.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

I think I'll weigh in on

[x] Plan Aranfan

For two reasons. One, that the other leading plan doesn't train with Sensei. Two, I do think Kakara should care about school. We've seen multiple times that mental health checks are a big part of the game and we've already seen some reactions from our friends to slacking last year. I agree with a lot of the other reasoning too and I think this kind of habit can build up to pretty bad things.

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Just for the record, we asked the QM and he said that failing to convince Sensei to train us in Mind Project will make that action a regular Train With Sensei action, which was why I decided not to double up.