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DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

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ReaperofInterest said:
Alright, so we've agreed for Diplomacy actions next turn to do a Reach Out with the other party involved tbd, and if the DC isn't too high a collaboration with Shego on dealing with the drug ring.
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Personally, I don't agree. The Reaching out actions have a low enough DC that we can crit normally with an average roll. This turn with Mirage we triple critted the reach out option, we can do the same with Goofy for reaching out Khan (around 70% chances of critsucceding with XP in a normal turn). I'd like it if instead, we tried to crit on actions normally impossible (or at least harder) for us like any of the recruiting actions or Open diplomatic channels with the US Government (this can succeed with PA quite easily).

As for reaching out Shego, I'm not really sure she'd want to collaborate, moreover we don't really know where the Cartel is located, and searching out the Wastelands for them seems like an extremely high Intrigue DC.
 
Retrueno said:
As for reaching out Shego, I'm not really sure she'd want to collaborate, moreover we don't really know where the Cartel is located, and searching out the Wastelands for them seems like an extremely high Intrigue DC.
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They made a fool out of her, and hurt her brother (which of course never happened because she murdered them, And therefore we definitely can't be blamed for it happening). I think she'd be okay with collaborating.
 
Stratagemini said:
They made a fool out of her, and hurt her brother (which of course never happened because she murdered them, And therefore we definitely can't be blamed for it happening). I think she'd be okay with collaborating.
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I think she will be fine with collaboration, but also not sure if collaboration is the best action to spend crit on it. Collaboration with Sycorax so we can work on most important projects? Definitely, if DC is right. Or recruitment option so we can gain more units for heroball? Yes. Shego collaboration? Perhaps she will spend more resources on dealing with Cartel, but it's not main priority, it's more side project for us. I think it can wait a turn.
 
sunsunsunsunsun said:
And what are the odds of that? one in twelve?

Seems more like a recruit action. But we can never get enough of those

Didn't she try to assassinate evelyn, like last month?
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No. The "assassination" with a mild paralytic was definitely Tomorrowland's MO and she is a libertarian genius who works on control techniques that Tomorrowland would want their hands on. Somebody at tomorrowland fumbled, or perhaps Evelyn crit. Either way, I do not suspect Bellweather of doing this
 
Stratagemini said:
They made a fool out of her, and hurt her brother (which of course never happened because she murdered them, And therefore we definitely can't be blamed for it happening). I think she'd be okay with collaborating.
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I feel like you're treating Hego like he was made of glass, in the same way, arguments, before the Reach Out Shego action was done, were done to not send Hego to any action where there was even the slightest chance of danger in fear of Shego getting angry and destroying us. Now the argument is "Hego got into a fight and got hurt so of course, Shego is going to destroy them", which is basically the same except we change the last part from us to them.

In any case, though, you're ignoring the point where we will have to locate the main base of the cartel across the Wasteland which is sure to be a sky-high intrigue action.
 
For next turn's Diplomacy, I'll be supporting the Hero and Rogue/Villain recruitment options, because critting on those should net us a whole bunch more and/or much higher quality Hero Units.
 
JowKeen said:
No. The "assassination" with a mild paralytic was definitely Tomorrowland's MO and she is a libertarian genius who works on control techniques that Tomorrowland would want their hands on. Somebody at tomorrowland fumbled, or perhaps Evelyn crit. Either way, I do not suspect Bellweather of doing this
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The result was a bare failure
 
Ashen Cross said:
Welp, we heard vanessa, Guess we're giving DEI to Janna if we somehow croak.
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I'm actually 100% down with this.

Their at the exact same level of "petty evil but mostly good", no one else matches the spirit of the company as perfectly as Janna, she's done a fantastic job as the head of our Occult division so she arguably has the experience for the job, we've got plenty of loyal employees who can fill in the gaps that she lacks, a straight up magician is the closest match to Doof just straight up being able to do miracles, I'm pretty sure she's Doof's favorite employee, etc, etc, etc.

Also, she has the single most important power in the world. The Dice love her.

Edit:

With Mirage as, like, a strong second in command, and/or to manage the company until Janna is ready.
 
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Eh, I would argue that it might be the case that we should get another Occult unit or two before moving Janna into that position, otherwise we'd have a terrible Occult staff with Kitsune, Tobe, and... someone else that I'm forgetting, probably, and those both aren't Occult units on the same level as Ludivine and Jumba are learning units, and aren't Occult specialists, with Kitsune doing intrigue/martial every other turn and Tobe being a Martial/Intrigue/Occult generalist.

Edit: The ones I was forgetting were Tom, a demon, and Cazador, a mercenary. One is a martial powerhouse that won't work for us for most of the year and will only work for us on a few specific topics, and the other is a magic dabbler that has decent Martial and Intrigue.
 
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Retrueno said:
Personally, I don't agree. The Reaching out actions have a low enough DC that we can crit normally with an average roll. This turn with Mirage we triple critted the reach out option, we can do the same with Goofy for reaching out Khan (around 70% chances of critsucceding with XP in a normal turn). I'd like it if instead, we tried to crit on actions normally impossible (or at least harder) for us like any of the recruiting actions or Open diplomatic channels with the US Government (this can succeed with PA quite easily).
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This is a terrible idea, because the Probabilinator doesn't actually make us more likely to succeed. If we take an action with a very high risk of failure, we have instead taken a a correspondingly high risk of critical failure. Critical failures tend to do us more harm than the good done by a critical success. Therefore, this is the worst possible time to gamble on actions that are likely to fail.

For example, if we have a DC 100 Diplomacy check, on a normal turn we only critically fail on a 50 or lower. Because Doof's Diplomacy score is... uh... between 15 and 20, right?... and because we usually pick someone with Diplomacy in the mid- to upper twenties, our chance of a critical failure will be pretty low. Something like 10% or less.

If we take the same action THIS turn, our chance of a critical failure will be less like 10% and more like 60%. It is a bad idea to take an action with a 60% chance of critical failure just so we can get a 40% chance of critical success rather than conventional success.
 
Retrueno said:
In any case, though, you're ignoring the point where we will have to locate the main base of the cartel across the Wasteland which is sure to be a sky-high intrigue action.
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Or possibly a Middling Diplomacy action with the Duke. He might or might not know something about the cartel, might or might not care enough to pay attention, and might or might not be willing to help us.

Then again, drug dealers are usually "disrespectful" by the Duke's definitions, so my money's on him knowing something.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
This is a terrible idea, because the Probabilinator doesn't actually make us more likely to succeed. If we take an action with a very high risk of failure, we have instead taken a a correspondingly high risk of critical failure. Critical failures tend to do us more harm than the good done by a critical success. Therefore, this is the worst possible time to gamble on actions that are likely to fail.

For example, if we have a DC 100 Diplomacy check, on a normal turn we only critically fail on a 50 or lower. Because Doof's Diplomacy score is... uh... between 15 and 20, right?... and because we usually pick someone with Diplomacy in the mid- to upper twenties, our chance of a critical failure will be pretty low. Something like 10% or less.

If we take the same action THIS turn, our chance of a critical failure will be less like 10% and more like 60%. It is a bad idea to take an action with a 60% chance of critical failure just so we can get a 40% chance of critical success rather than conventional success.
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I think you're missing the part where I mentioned using Personal Attention... The calculations with it included would be:

(100 - 18 (Doof's Diplo) - 28 (Goof's Diplo) - 5 (Goof's Loyalty) - 7 (Goofy's Everyman trait) - 10 (XP))/100 = 0.32 Chances of Failing a DC100 diplo action with Goofy and XP.

Now if we apply Personal Attention we get 0.32**2 = 0.104 => 10% chances of failure.
 
I mean, we presumably have stuff that the Duke wants.

Food? Alcohol? Booze? Medicine?

I get that he's somehow thriving out there perfectly fine, but, you know, Wasteland of Rust and Garbage. Gotta be something he'd want from an outside party.
 
JowKeen said:
yes. Tomorrowland fumbled the "abduct her" part. They snuck, darted her, knocked her out, but she was taken by allies to recover from the mild paralytic
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Except they failed almost every aspect of a kidnapping. They didn't hit Evelyn, they hit her brother, and the paralytic didn't even work on him. The only thing whoever tried this succeeded at was concealing their identity.
 
King Arthur said:
I mean, we presumably have stuff that the Duke wants.

Food? Alcohol? Booze? Medicine?

I get that he's somehow thriving out there perfectly fine, but, you know, Wasteland of Rust and Garbage. Gotta be something he'd want from an outside party.
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Things he wants? Almost certainly.

Things he's willing to ask for and hurt his ego? Not a chance, even with little knowledge of the man, he could even take the offer as an insult.
 
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nwish425 said:
Things he wants? Almost certainly.

Things he's willing to ask for and hurt his ego? Not a chance, even with little knowledge of the man.
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I presumed we'd be doing the asking as we sort of have to go to him. Something like

"Hey, we have access to the outside .... is there anything you'd be willing to trade for? We can probably get most any outside good in large quantities if you desire them."

People don't get to his position without being willing to make deals of some sort.
 
Retrueno said:
I think you're missing the part where I mentioned using Personal Attention... The calculations with it included would be:

(100 - 18 (Doof's Diplo) - 28 (Goof's Diplo) - 5 (Goof's Loyalty) - 7 (Goofy's Everyman trait) - 10 (XP))/100 = 0.32 Chances of Failing a DC100 diplo action with Goofy and XP.

Now if we apply Personal Attention we get 0.32**2 = 0.104 => 10% chances of failure.
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OK, but we can only Personal Attention one action, and we're going to have some hellacious debate about which one. I think it might honestly be better to just... not have that fight and accept a consensus plan that relies on reaping high rewards from auto-crits on actions that are likely to succeed anyway.
 
The trick with the Probabilinator is that a 1 point increase in DC is, under normal circumstances, accompanied by a 2 point increase in the critsuccess threshold. Ignoring XP for a moment, we can reasonably critsucceed on a DC 50 Occult action with a ~+10 bonus like with the tarot reading with a relatively high roll, but a DC 100 robotics action with a ~+100 bonus could only critsucceed on a nat 100.

Under normal circumstances, we have a hard time critting high-DC actions even if we've got a 99% CoS on them, whereas lower DC actions with a 70% CoS might still crit on a roll in the 80s.

So if we want to get maximum value out of the Probabilinator, we want to pick the highest DC options that we can still reliably pass, given that any failures will be critical failures. Exactly how reliable we want to get depends on exactly what action we're taking - Jumba critfailing something dinosaur related is probably better than Goofy critfailing to reach out to the government, for example, so we might call a 90% CoS good for Jumba while requiring a 98 or 99 for Goofy.

Personal Attention is the one tool we have to reliably crit a higher DC action in a category where our bonuses are weaker, but we can only apply that to one option, and it only helps so much.

Personally, I'm not going to worry too hard about exactly where we should apply our PA and exactly what crit-successes we should try sniping until the turn drops and we see the actions and DCs available to us. The key for right now, I think, is just to make sure we build some consensus - or well-defined set of consensuses where the thread has its disagreements - on what we generally want to accomplish in the turn.
 
Lab_Accident said:
Or possibly a Middling Diplomacy action with the Duke. He might or might not know something about the cartel, might or might not care enough to pay attention, and might or might not be willing to help us.

Then again, drug dealers are usually "disrespectful" by the Duke's definitions, so my money's on him knowing something.
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King Arthur said:
I mean, we presumably have stuff that the Duke wants.

Food? Alcohol? Booze? Medicine?

I get that he's somehow thriving out there perfectly fine, but, you know, Wasteland of Rust and Garbage. Gotta be something he'd want from an outside party.
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Don´t forget the SPLIT/SECOND sponsorship we could make and which he most likely will be interested in having *some* part in, thanks to being a car enthusiast.
 
nwish425 said:
Don't want to pull a Doof's parents and ignore our daughter just because she's been a bit of a disappointment.
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It's not ignoring her, she seems to not want our company, so it's obeying her wishes and not forcing her into a role she doesn't want.

If she changes her mind that's a different story, but the moment we find out IC that she doesn't want to run the company Doof should really start rethinking what happens to it after/if he dies.
 
YES.

Give Vanessa some time. She's a freaking teenager, her rebelliously rejecting her (admittedly weird and in some ways unenviable) parent and trying to have a normal life is not unreasonable. She's got the chops to be very good at whatever she eventually turns her hand to; she just needs to get off her butt and do it. I think there's good hope for that to happen.

King Arthur said:
It's not ignoring her, she seems to not want our company, so it's obeying her wishes and not forcing her into a role she doesn't want.
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From one point of view, yes, but from another point of view it's kind of a passive-aggressive way of saying "she doesn't respect Doof's legacy so let's disinherit her for being a disappointment, in favor of this other teenage girl we just met a year ago and whose only notable 'advantage' is that she's got stronger motivation because her friends were scattered and assaulted by Toffee, oh and also that a magic artifact semi-randomly bonded to her and made her into a wizard."

If she changes her mind that's a different story, but the moment we find out IC that she doesn't want to run the company Doof should really start rethinking what happens to it after/if he dies.
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Honestly, there's nothing stopping Vanessa from inheriting the company and appointing someone else to manage it. There's a difference between being the owner and being the CEO.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
YES.

Give Vanessa some time. She's a freaking teenager, her rebelliously rejecting her (admittedly weird and in some ways unenviable) parent and trying to have a normal life is not unreasonable. She's got the chops to be very good at whatever she eventually turns her hand to; she just needs to get off her butt and do it. I think there's good hope for that to happen.
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Yes, let's just give her time before we decide stuff like heirs and focus on being a not-so-bad dad.
 
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