Lab_Accident
A 2D 1D4
- Location
- Your dreams
Honestly, not planning ahead too much because I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop on the subject of the prophecy.
DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest
- Thread starter Made in Heaven
- Start date
- Crossover
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
So, I've been thinking of doing a faction writeup as if each group were a Total War Warhammer or Crusader Kings group. The focus would be on the Kings and the personal bonuses they provide that shape their factions, with a dash of 'how to translate their traits to a Civilization/Supreme Commander hybrid.
Doof, for example is a generalist faction that focuses on upgrading units and Heroes relatively quickly via Doof's Exp/training bonus ability, superweapons in the form of Inators, and a morale ability that lets Heroes recover from negative statuses more quickly. A faction that has issues in the early game and may well only survive off the back of Inators if anyone bothers to pay attention to them, but becomes exponentially more powerful as time goes on. If you grab a lot of Heroes early, this faction might well hit endgame power by the mid game and still have room to grow. Most 'players' would put minimum effort into other stuff until they fill out their Hero slots, because even garbage Heroes like Dennis can become quite potent with enough missions like XCOM 2's Special Missions(which offer stats and the like and replace normal Personals here) under their belts. Beyond improvement to their Special Missions board anyway. With a bit of luck, they can do crazy stuff like make Tobe into a figure on par with Kage from Naruto in a handful of Turns, especially if they get Heroes well-suited to aiding character development like Technor. Some challenge runners even discovered a means of dividing Lovemuffin into 20 or so much better Hero Units and absolutely bulldozing the tech tree.
Xanatos, on the other hand, specializes in Intrigue, with a secondary focus on, well, secondary focuses. His first ability is a translation of the Xanatos Gambit thing that generates a side objective for any battles or missions that offers additional rewards for completion regardless of the overall success or failure of the mission. His second is Intrigue focused, offering a bunch of spying actions to investigate, weaken, or subvert other factions. His third ability is the Occult one, allowing him to have that tech tree unlocked immediately, unlike most factions. Allying or 'allying' with an early-stage Doof faction and propping them up long enough to let it steamroll the competition is a fairly reliable winning strategy for him, though that can be done with most factions, at least in theory. His faction is one of the best-suited to 'soft-winning' in the early game. Basically, he gets so far ahead by stealing other people's research and sabotaging their projects while chugging steadily along himself that Doof's faction is the only one that has any hope of catching up. Toffee could just nuke the board, at least in theory, but that runs the risk of letting Bill out and he's a lot more likely to just take his ball and go home, unless Xanatos keeps Toffee from finding out about Bill for some reason, probably by accident.
Then we have Doom. Great Stewardship, great against Toons. One ability boosts all 'boring' actions like freeway building, setting up new locations for things, and so on. This is relatively easy to use for most Diplomacy stuff. Another ability boosts actions against Toons, while his third is a propaganda booster, allowing him to leverage events in his favor. Kind of niche unless he manages to expand into anti-weirdness in general, which gives him the option of allying with Belos to purge Magic and normal Toons from society, and that's kind of hard to do without playing very specifically or getting very lucky. Still, taking down Negaduck early can win enough acclaim to be leveraged into other things, and Doom's faction is incredibly well-suited for it, especially if he expands into Occult early on.
Any advice?
Doof, for example is a generalist faction that focuses on upgrading units and Heroes relatively quickly via Doof's Exp/training bonus ability, superweapons in the form of Inators, and a morale ability that lets Heroes recover from negative statuses more quickly. A faction that has issues in the early game and may well only survive off the back of Inators if anyone bothers to pay attention to them, but becomes exponentially more powerful as time goes on. If you grab a lot of Heroes early, this faction might well hit endgame power by the mid game and still have room to grow. Most 'players' would put minimum effort into other stuff until they fill out their Hero slots, because even garbage Heroes like Dennis can become quite potent with enough missions like XCOM 2's Special Missions(which offer stats and the like and replace normal Personals here) under their belts. Beyond improvement to their Special Missions board anyway. With a bit of luck, they can do crazy stuff like make Tobe into a figure on par with Kage from Naruto in a handful of Turns, especially if they get Heroes well-suited to aiding character development like Technor. Some challenge runners even discovered a means of dividing Lovemuffin into 20 or so much better Hero Units and absolutely bulldozing the tech tree.
Xanatos, on the other hand, specializes in Intrigue, with a secondary focus on, well, secondary focuses. His first ability is a translation of the Xanatos Gambit thing that generates a side objective for any battles or missions that offers additional rewards for completion regardless of the overall success or failure of the mission. His second is Intrigue focused, offering a bunch of spying actions to investigate, weaken, or subvert other factions. His third ability is the Occult one, allowing him to have that tech tree unlocked immediately, unlike most factions. Allying or 'allying' with an early-stage Doof faction and propping them up long enough to let it steamroll the competition is a fairly reliable winning strategy for him, though that can be done with most factions, at least in theory. His faction is one of the best-suited to 'soft-winning' in the early game. Basically, he gets so far ahead by stealing other people's research and sabotaging their projects while chugging steadily along himself that Doof's faction is the only one that has any hope of catching up. Toffee could just nuke the board, at least in theory, but that runs the risk of letting Bill out and he's a lot more likely to just take his ball and go home, unless Xanatos keeps Toffee from finding out about Bill for some reason, probably by accident.
Then we have Doom. Great Stewardship, great against Toons. One ability boosts all 'boring' actions like freeway building, setting up new locations for things, and so on. This is relatively easy to use for most Diplomacy stuff. Another ability boosts actions against Toons, while his third is a propaganda booster, allowing him to leverage events in his favor. Kind of niche unless he manages to expand into anti-weirdness in general, which gives him the option of allying with Belos to purge Magic and normal Toons from society, and that's kind of hard to do without playing very specifically or getting very lucky. Still, taking down Negaduck early can win enough acclaim to be leveraged into other things, and Doom's faction is incredibly well-suited for it, especially if he expands into Occult early on.
Any advice?
- Location
- Two hours away
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Argidoll
The More-Stairs-Than-Expected-Inator: Rob your foes of their balance and timely traversal between floors with this bad boy.
The Unambiguous-Prophecy-Inator: You're tired of all these cryptic warnings that only make sense a week after they come to fruition. Now with this Inator you'll finally get a straight answer out of destiny!
... Well that's offly short notice.
The More-Stairs-Than-Expected-Inator: Rob your foes of their balance and timely traversal between floors with this bad boy.
MSTE-Inator is added to item list for a turn. All stairs the wielder zaps during a NA or Quest require a small Martial check to traverse until the inator is destroyed.
The Unambiguous-Prophecy-Inator: You're tired of all these cryptic warnings that only make sense a week after they come to fruition. Now with this Inator you'll finally get a straight answer out of destiny!
... Well that's offly short notice.
Heinz is given a 30 minuet heads-up to something bad about to happen.
Doofania
- Location
- Pennsylvania
We'd like to try and address the Doofania issue, because we're very sure we've not done a good enough job of signposting our narrative. We're not saying that doof is powerless, or unimportant, or that he is forced down the path of corporate compliance. First, there's an issue of meaning. We need to define what 'Doofania' is since people are probably using different definitions
When Doofenshmirtz thinks about Doofania, when we use 'Doofania' in the narrative, he imagines it as an absolute dictatorship helmed by him, where all representative systems, if they exist at all, hold no power over the will of an absolute sovereign.
This Doofania, as an idea, is an utter delusion held by Doofenshmirtz. It is not real, and it is not good. This was our intention to communicate from day one.
Doofenshmirtz came to the US, unwillingly, as an immigrant, with no support network to speak of, and having had almost every influence in his life up until that point being negative. The idea of conquering the Tri-State Area was presented to him and was seized on as a way to achieve anything, to earn any sort of recognition. In Doofenshmirtz's mind, the love of others is inextricably linked to success. And kickball.
Even now, Doofenshmirtz has trouble believing people like him. He attributes that newfound friendship and affection to his success, just as he has previously attributed it to Roger.
In Deep Inside Your Mind, you saw the matinee showing of 'The Dream Where You Are Supreme Dictator Over All The Earth (And Your Mother Loves You)'.
Nothing else we've written better sums up what Doofania is.
This way of thinking is inimical to both Doof's success and his long-term happiness. It is him deluding himself into thinking he has supreme control, because obviously, no one could ever love him if they weren't made to.
In addition to thinking Doofania exists now being bad for Doofenshmirtz, there is also the secondary issue which is that, if Doofania were to exist, it would be bad for the public. Doofania as Doofenshmirtz defines it is a dictatorship. There is no morally correct way to be a dictator, except perhaps by the active effort to dismantle dictatorship.
If you want to be evil, that is ok. In fact, that's still an option! But there's really no way to square 'replace a (imperfect, embattled, corrupt) democracy with a dictatorship' with being a good person. Doofquest does not and will not support the Enlightened Despot mode of leadership.
Doof has been developing, up until now throughout the quest, closer towards being a good person, and into being a competent person. You've taken actions that choose to both A) slowly pull the scales off Doofenshmirtz's eyes and make him less deluded and B) generally help and support people around you, even to your own expense.
Becoming a dictator would not be item B.
There is no easy way or bloodless coup that would allow Doofenshmirtz to become a dictator. There is no path to openly usurping the power of the United States that does not end in a lot of people dead and suffering. Even if there were, a single man holding supreme executive power would be a bad thing.
There's a certain level of realism that's endemic to the setting, even as we have toons, magic, and superpowers running around. We had to balance what Doof could actually do, because what makes for entertaining gag-a-day TV does not make for a compelling narrative. It wouldn't be much fun to read or write about Doofenshmirtz immediately winning- just as it wouldn't be fun to write about someone more competent or powerful taking Doof out. The level of realism in the quest is what prevents 'Doofania' as Doof sees it from becoming a thing. Barring the total collapse of the US government, which would invariably result in widespread bloodshed regardless of how it goes down, there's no realistic way in which the government would ever agree to allow Doofenshmirtz any degree of autonomy in the way he's hoping for.
Could Doof pull a Glomgold, monopolize all the industries in his purview, and control a large part of the country's GDP to gain de facto control? Of course, but that's a far cry from an actual dictatorship and would require a fair bit of investment. Even Glomgold still 'pays' his taxes, as much as he hates it. Those taxes might be 1% of gross profit after expenses, sure, but the forms are filed. Could he have a PMC with more firepower than a lot of countries? Sure, Syndrome and Shego both fielded, in their own ways, martial power that could put a lot of states (if not necessarily America) to shame.
Saying that 'Doofania isn't real' isn't to say Doof can't become more powerful. In fact, we're worried that the message you're getting from us is that we think other people's visions of 'Doofania' as a place where people are more free, where people are safer, or happier, or as a sort of cultural idea (an 'American Dream' sort of thing) is something he can't do or other people think is stupid. We do not, because this is not what Heinz Doofenshmirtz means when he talks about Doofania. He, like other powerful people in the US, can do a lot, whether that is for his own power and personal desires or even, if he wishes it, to help others. He's done both! A lot! Compared to any other 'King', Doofenshmirtz has so far been the most benevolent, by a country mile. But when he does good, or even does well, he needs to find ways to work around reality as it stands. And that means acknowledging that reality.
Our intention was not to telegraph that the players are dumb for wanting something. Our intention was to telegraph that Doof is an unreliable narrator when it comes to Doofania, and the things he thinks about it are not sane things.
Even if you want to be able to actually take Doofania, as an independent country, which will be hard, Doof will need to first recognize that it does not yet exist. And if you want to do anything else productive, he will also need to do that. When you wish upon a star, fairy tales can come true. But you have to make them happen, they all depend on you. The Power of Positive Thinking by itself will not be sufficient in this instance.
That realization does not require you to formally give up the claims you make on independence. But it would certainly fast-track the question.
Doof does not have the capacity to actually administer taxes, provide public services, or maintain a major army right now. He's taken steps that get him closer to that! He provides extremely good healthcare to his employees, is effectively subsidizing super and cape activity anywhere Insuricare operates, and runs a PMC. He even gives out some meals to charity. He isn't paying to feed every single person within Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming, that would put a far larger dent in his bottom line than there currently is. He could do it if he had the kind of cash collecting taxes would bring, but if Doofenshmirtz actually tries to assume the functions of the federal government it would lead to a considerably harsher response than he has thus far gotten, at the same time that he is trying to build that system up.
Technor is fine with both big E evil and extreme pettiness. But he also wants Doof to end the delusion of Doofania because it is that- a delusion. And acting on that delusion would be actively detrimental to Doof's success no matter what he wants to do.
Does he want to gain more real power and influences? He can start playing the game the rest of the world runs on. Does he want to continue being a wacky supervillain who does things for petty reasons? He can absolutely do that, Shego gets away with an entire lifetime of serious crime and still gets to be in charge. 'Commit Supervillainy' is not going away anytime soon. Does he want to, in fact, become a better person, and change the world for the better? That path is open, and you've gone a ways along it. But none of those paths go through Doofenshmirtz continuing to pretend he is a dictator when he is not. Not even the one where he decides, screw what half my hero units think, I want to do everything I can to actually become a dictator.
Mirage sees Doofania as a neurosis; a thing she has to work around when working with Doctor Doof. Your other hero units mostly see Doofania as a joke, or also as a neurosis, depending on how well they know him and how observant they are, or, in the case of some more observant units, as an aspirational goal they think Doof is working towards. Doof is not working towards it. He thinks he already has it.
The following hero units would be, for one reason or another, unopposed to the idea of Doofania: Genghis Khan (would see it as a challenge), Norm (depending on the outcome of the next few turns), Technor (Has tried to take over California before), Jumba (Likes evil as a lifestyle), Ludivine (depending on the day), Queen Lizzy (very conditional), Tobe (does not know the country is a republic, thinks power is determined by whomever is the strongest, would need to be talked out of fighting Richard Martinez), Janus Lee (would be happy to cut you loose if it starts going poorly), Malifishmertz, and Gomez (only really cares about his place in life beneath you).
None of these people think Doofania exists now, except for Doofenshmirtz and Malifishmertz. These are the ones who would not start taking growing loyalty penalties if Doofenshmirtz started taking intelligent actions to make Doofania real. I.E., attempting to collapse the US Government and then taking as much of their place as possible once they can't stop you. Even then, most of them would be happy to jump ship if the plan started going badly.
All other hero units have either massive moral qualms or practical issues about trying to become a country, and the implicit necessity that the country that is already there be removed first.
The idea behind Doofquest is, essentially, the villains won, and became Kings. However, because they are villains, their victories are imperfect.
Syndrome managed to follow through on his grand and terrible plan for genocide, successfully entrenching anti-super mentality in the public consciousness for years, and even after the considerable effort of multiple megacorps, some negative sentiment still lingers. But he did so by working alone, never developing one single friendship or any sort of positive relationship, leading to his ignominious death at the hands of one of his own creations, getting shot in the head and tossed into a canyon. Not one single person mourned his passing, and there's a reason the feds didn't look too hard into the obvious cover-up.
Xanatos sits at the center of a grand web, nigh-untouchable politically, with New York in the palm of his hand. He has eyes on everything, a measure on (apparently) every threat, and plans to keep them all in check. Xanatos has continued to build himself up, worming his way deep into countless places, keeping checks and balances on threats to himself and others, and trying not to allow any more weakness, which to Xanatos includes love. Because not a day goes by that he doesn't remember how much that 'weakness' can hurt.
As for Doofenshmirtz, he controls the tri-state area now. And he does! You do! But it isn't exactly what he thought it was, just like it wasn't what anyone else thought victory was. And the question of 'what next' given that disparity is the central narrative tension of the setting.
In conclusion, we want to… well. Apologize. We consider this our fault.
We have tried, since the start of the quest, to telegraph this delusion as being a delusion. We have experimented with a quest protagonist who is not entirely reliable, and how to signal when that unreliability is manifesting in the ways the narration talks and in the ways others react to him. But we didn't do enough to signal this.
Of course, this is a very broad post, and an attempt to address the issues of a lot of people. It also made some assumptions about what you all think. So, please continue commenting, and replying, and we'll try to respond as we can.
When Doofenshmirtz thinks about Doofania, when we use 'Doofania' in the narrative, he imagines it as an absolute dictatorship helmed by him, where all representative systems, if they exist at all, hold no power over the will of an absolute sovereign.
This Doofania, as an idea, is an utter delusion held by Doofenshmirtz. It is not real, and it is not good. This was our intention to communicate from day one.
Doofenshmirtz came to the US, unwillingly, as an immigrant, with no support network to speak of, and having had almost every influence in his life up until that point being negative. The idea of conquering the Tri-State Area was presented to him and was seized on as a way to achieve anything, to earn any sort of recognition. In Doofenshmirtz's mind, the love of others is inextricably linked to success. And kickball.
Even now, Doofenshmirtz has trouble believing people like him. He attributes that newfound friendship and affection to his success, just as he has previously attributed it to Roger.
In Deep Inside Your Mind, you saw the matinee showing of 'The Dream Where You Are Supreme Dictator Over All The Earth (And Your Mother Loves You)'.
Nothing else we've written better sums up what Doofania is.
This way of thinking is inimical to both Doof's success and his long-term happiness. It is him deluding himself into thinking he has supreme control, because obviously, no one could ever love him if they weren't made to.
In addition to thinking Doofania exists now being bad for Doofenshmirtz, there is also the secondary issue which is that, if Doofania were to exist, it would be bad for the public. Doofania as Doofenshmirtz defines it is a dictatorship. There is no morally correct way to be a dictator, except perhaps by the active effort to dismantle dictatorship.
If you want to be evil, that is ok. In fact, that's still an option! But there's really no way to square 'replace a (imperfect, embattled, corrupt) democracy with a dictatorship' with being a good person. Doofquest does not and will not support the Enlightened Despot mode of leadership.
Doof has been developing, up until now throughout the quest, closer towards being a good person, and into being a competent person. You've taken actions that choose to both A) slowly pull the scales off Doofenshmirtz's eyes and make him less deluded and B) generally help and support people around you, even to your own expense.
Becoming a dictator would not be item B.
There is no easy way or bloodless coup that would allow Doofenshmirtz to become a dictator. There is no path to openly usurping the power of the United States that does not end in a lot of people dead and suffering. Even if there were, a single man holding supreme executive power would be a bad thing.
There's a certain level of realism that's endemic to the setting, even as we have toons, magic, and superpowers running around. We had to balance what Doof could actually do, because what makes for entertaining gag-a-day TV does not make for a compelling narrative. It wouldn't be much fun to read or write about Doofenshmirtz immediately winning- just as it wouldn't be fun to write about someone more competent or powerful taking Doof out. The level of realism in the quest is what prevents 'Doofania' as Doof sees it from becoming a thing. Barring the total collapse of the US government, which would invariably result in widespread bloodshed regardless of how it goes down, there's no realistic way in which the government would ever agree to allow Doofenshmirtz any degree of autonomy in the way he's hoping for.
Could Doof pull a Glomgold, monopolize all the industries in his purview, and control a large part of the country's GDP to gain de facto control? Of course, but that's a far cry from an actual dictatorship and would require a fair bit of investment. Even Glomgold still 'pays' his taxes, as much as he hates it. Those taxes might be 1% of gross profit after expenses, sure, but the forms are filed. Could he have a PMC with more firepower than a lot of countries? Sure, Syndrome and Shego both fielded, in their own ways, martial power that could put a lot of states (if not necessarily America) to shame.
Saying that 'Doofania isn't real' isn't to say Doof can't become more powerful. In fact, we're worried that the message you're getting from us is that we think other people's visions of 'Doofania' as a place where people are more free, where people are safer, or happier, or as a sort of cultural idea (an 'American Dream' sort of thing) is something he can't do or other people think is stupid. We do not, because this is not what Heinz Doofenshmirtz means when he talks about Doofania. He, like other powerful people in the US, can do a lot, whether that is for his own power and personal desires or even, if he wishes it, to help others. He's done both! A lot! Compared to any other 'King', Doofenshmirtz has so far been the most benevolent, by a country mile. But when he does good, or even does well, he needs to find ways to work around reality as it stands. And that means acknowledging that reality.
Our intention was not to telegraph that the players are dumb for wanting something. Our intention was to telegraph that Doof is an unreliable narrator when it comes to Doofania, and the things he thinks about it are not sane things.
Even if you want to be able to actually take Doofania, as an independent country, which will be hard, Doof will need to first recognize that it does not yet exist. And if you want to do anything else productive, he will also need to do that. When you wish upon a star, fairy tales can come true. But you have to make them happen, they all depend on you. The Power of Positive Thinking by itself will not be sufficient in this instance.
That realization does not require you to formally give up the claims you make on independence. But it would certainly fast-track the question.
Doof does not have the capacity to actually administer taxes, provide public services, or maintain a major army right now. He's taken steps that get him closer to that! He provides extremely good healthcare to his employees, is effectively subsidizing super and cape activity anywhere Insuricare operates, and runs a PMC. He even gives out some meals to charity. He isn't paying to feed every single person within Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming, that would put a far larger dent in his bottom line than there currently is. He could do it if he had the kind of cash collecting taxes would bring, but if Doofenshmirtz actually tries to assume the functions of the federal government it would lead to a considerably harsher response than he has thus far gotten, at the same time that he is trying to build that system up.
Technor is fine with both big E evil and extreme pettiness. But he also wants Doof to end the delusion of Doofania because it is that- a delusion. And acting on that delusion would be actively detrimental to Doof's success no matter what he wants to do.
Does he want to gain more real power and influences? He can start playing the game the rest of the world runs on. Does he want to continue being a wacky supervillain who does things for petty reasons? He can absolutely do that, Shego gets away with an entire lifetime of serious crime and still gets to be in charge. 'Commit Supervillainy' is not going away anytime soon. Does he want to, in fact, become a better person, and change the world for the better? That path is open, and you've gone a ways along it. But none of those paths go through Doofenshmirtz continuing to pretend he is a dictator when he is not. Not even the one where he decides, screw what half my hero units think, I want to do everything I can to actually become a dictator.
Mirage sees Doofania as a neurosis; a thing she has to work around when working with Doctor Doof. Your other hero units mostly see Doofania as a joke, or also as a neurosis, depending on how well they know him and how observant they are, or, in the case of some more observant units, as an aspirational goal they think Doof is working towards. Doof is not working towards it. He thinks he already has it.
The following hero units would be, for one reason or another, unopposed to the idea of Doofania: Genghis Khan (would see it as a challenge), Norm (depending on the outcome of the next few turns), Technor (Has tried to take over California before), Jumba (Likes evil as a lifestyle), Ludivine (depending on the day), Queen Lizzy (very conditional), Tobe (does not know the country is a republic, thinks power is determined by whomever is the strongest, would need to be talked out of fighting Richard Martinez), Janus Lee (would be happy to cut you loose if it starts going poorly), Malifishmertz, and Gomez (only really cares about his place in life beneath you).
None of these people think Doofania exists now, except for Doofenshmirtz and Malifishmertz. These are the ones who would not start taking growing loyalty penalties if Doofenshmirtz started taking intelligent actions to make Doofania real. I.E., attempting to collapse the US Government and then taking as much of their place as possible once they can't stop you. Even then, most of them would be happy to jump ship if the plan started going badly.
All other hero units have either massive moral qualms or practical issues about trying to become a country, and the implicit necessity that the country that is already there be removed first.
The idea behind Doofquest is, essentially, the villains won, and became Kings. However, because they are villains, their victories are imperfect.
Syndrome managed to follow through on his grand and terrible plan for genocide, successfully entrenching anti-super mentality in the public consciousness for years, and even after the considerable effort of multiple megacorps, some negative sentiment still lingers. But he did so by working alone, never developing one single friendship or any sort of positive relationship, leading to his ignominious death at the hands of one of his own creations, getting shot in the head and tossed into a canyon. Not one single person mourned his passing, and there's a reason the feds didn't look too hard into the obvious cover-up.
Xanatos sits at the center of a grand web, nigh-untouchable politically, with New York in the palm of his hand. He has eyes on everything, a measure on (apparently) every threat, and plans to keep them all in check. Xanatos has continued to build himself up, worming his way deep into countless places, keeping checks and balances on threats to himself and others, and trying not to allow any more weakness, which to Xanatos includes love. Because not a day goes by that he doesn't remember how much that 'weakness' can hurt.
As for Doofenshmirtz, he controls the tri-state area now. And he does! You do! But it isn't exactly what he thought it was, just like it wasn't what anyone else thought victory was. And the question of 'what next' given that disparity is the central narrative tension of the setting.
In conclusion, we want to… well. Apologize. We consider this our fault.
We have tried, since the start of the quest, to telegraph this delusion as being a delusion. We have experimented with a quest protagonist who is not entirely reliable, and how to signal when that unreliability is manifesting in the ways the narration talks and in the ways others react to him. But we didn't do enough to signal this.
Of course, this is a very broad post, and an attempt to address the issues of a lot of people. It also made some assumptions about what you all think. So, please continue commenting, and replying, and we'll try to respond as we can.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh, and one other thing I want to note. Invading Drusselstein is not an entirely pointless action. Even putting aside the narrative and character development potential of doofenshmirtz getting a taste of real domination, of returning to his homeland in triumph, of facing the realities of rule and the challenges of power. And also all the dumb drusselstein jokes we could make.
In terms of making the land a better place, or profitable, you're unlikely to get much more than breaking even. Drusselstein really, really does suck. A lot.
But there are some... unexpected potential benefits.
In terms of making the land a better place, or profitable, you're unlikely to get much more than breaking even. Drusselstein really, really does suck. A lot.
But there are some... unexpected potential benefits.
This is probably the line that sums up the entire thing the most imo.
honestly my main arguement against going for Drusselstein right now is this. The country as an entire concept is so hilariously hard to move it's the sort of thing we need to commit a number of actions onto it, and we're working against a lot to scratch something out of it. And I just can't feel like we can spare the time to juggle it right now? At least until Find Star is done anyway and especially with an immenent prophecy.
(this isn't meant to be a knock against the QM's, just my reasoning on why I'm not enthusastic for going for it right now)
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- Location
- USA
Huh, I would have figured from the Mark Beaks/Technor interlude and Kat stuff we were on a path to be more competent but hadn't necessarily earned the title of more moral yet.
Would it be fair to say that considering Drusselstein is a monarchy and that after getting rid of the delusion of dictatorship we could feasibly come up with some kind of government system that isn't a full on dictatorship that this criticism wouldn't apply to taking over Drusselstein?
Intriguing.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That's... kinda nice to hear, actually. I was worried about that.
Excuse me? I'll have you know that Drossel dropped fifty-seven terabytes of unreleased anime dubbed in Nara-period Japanese.
Show me something that measures to that.
Brightflame
Lord of the Dance
- Location
- Inkopolis
Hm...this is making me think...does the Federal government have any contingency plans incase two or more Kings begin actively fighting one another, or even one incase a single King is in the position to assimilate the rest?
...And no, I am not wondering this out loud because I think that's what Doof should try to do, though the former I am anticipating a little if we can't find another solution on Doom and Winabelle's purges, I'm just genuinely curious.
...And no, I am not wondering this out loud because I think that's what Doof should try to do, though the former I am anticipating a little if we can't find another solution on Doom and Winabelle's purges, I'm just genuinely curious.
- Location
- Pennsylvania
I can't argue with that.
- Location
- Everywhere
Like most of my goals in this quest, I'll admit that my goals and desires to achieve in this game are (and will continue to be unless I suddenly become a different person) based on my own viewpoints and opinions.
I don't see "corporate power" as real power. Like, it is, yeah, but it's…boring power. Useless power. I know logically hats wrong, but I'm a being of feelings more than I am of logic.
I want my power to be known, to be broadcast. I don't want to have power through backroom deals and hostile takeovers, I want power through decree.
Money isn't power. Power is power.
Plus, and I'll try to avoid getting into politics as much as possible, I absolutely hate the idea of being beholden to a government. It's wrong and unnatural.
I don't see "corporate power" as real power. Like, it is, yeah, but it's…boring power. Useless power. I know logically hats wrong, but I'm a being of feelings more than I am of logic.
I want my power to be known, to be broadcast. I don't want to have power through backroom deals and hostile takeovers, I want power through decree.
Money isn't power. Power is power.
Plus, and I'll try to avoid getting into politics as much as possible, I absolutely hate the idea of being beholden to a government. It's wrong and unnatural.
- Pronouns
- He/him
Okay, but.. what is "power through decree" if it isn't the type of power that a government has?
- Location
- Two hours away
- Pronouns
- He/Him
For the lie to become a reality, these are the individuals who would form the foundation of our government. No thanks.
At the very least I want to get Malf to +25 loyalty. Obscure NA trees are a bit much to risk Mr. Magic-Inators revolting.
Lab_Accident
A 2D 1D4
- Location
- Your dreams
I don't know, I guess the concept that as Doof grows and changes, the idea that Doofania - which has always represented his Utopia, his dream-state, his overarching goal in life - cannot also grow and change with him to reflect his current values and dreams is... Demoralizing? That it has to be this one, static, stuck thing, it can't be recontextualized.
That he can't just work on his life's goal and adjust it as needed, that the only way to move forward give it up, and move on to something more "realistic" in order to be happy at all... To me, Doof has always been a kind of inspirational character because his entire life story has been being told by everyone that he's not good enough to do things, and then going on to do them anyways, in his own bumbling ways. That he's motivated by spite against a world that doesn't care.
And this feels like essentially the universe coming down on him and saying "you can't do this". That there cannot be a place better than America, and that he cannot make it happen. That he has to "accept" the limitations of the system as it is. That he has to accept his own limitations as they are.
It feels like being told: "There is nothing better than this, and there can't be. This is what you get. The sooner you accept it and move on, the happier you'll be."
Edit: Like, it's the first time in his life that he has friends other than Perry, and all his friends are telling him "your dream is stupid and you should give it up". It just feels awful.
That he can't just work on his life's goal and adjust it as needed, that the only way to move forward give it up, and move on to something more "realistic" in order to be happy at all... To me, Doof has always been a kind of inspirational character because his entire life story has been being told by everyone that he's not good enough to do things, and then going on to do them anyways, in his own bumbling ways. That he's motivated by spite against a world that doesn't care.
And this feels like essentially the universe coming down on him and saying "you can't do this". That there cannot be a place better than America, and that he cannot make it happen. That he has to "accept" the limitations of the system as it is. That he has to accept his own limitations as they are.
It feels like being told: "There is nothing better than this, and there can't be. This is what you get. The sooner you accept it and move on, the happier you'll be."
Edit: Like, it's the first time in his life that he has friends other than Perry, and all his friends are telling him "your dream is stupid and you should give it up". It just feels awful.
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- Location
- The City of Tears, Hallownest
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's literally not what they said. The point of the GM post is not that the idea of "Doofania" couldn't change, it's that it HASN'T changed, and if Doof wants to do anything with it, it needs to change.
- Location
- Everywhere
I more mean in the sense that I'm fine with having that power in a fictional setting as a main character, but I don't like it both when a government has control over me in RL and in regards to the fictional POV character.
At least I think so. I don't understand myself that well sometimes.
also hi T2E buddy pal friend it's me dagoth
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think that you basically... entirely misunderstood the post? The point is not that Doof cannot build something better. The point is that, A, his current view of Doofania is a bad thing. It is an absolute dictatorship, which, for obvious reasons, is bad. And B, His concept of Doofania can change, but he needs to recognize that Doofania does not currently exist. There is currently no Doofania. If he wants, there can be a Doofania in the future, but there will need to be time to change.
Speaking of, @Arathnorn , would you guys be willing to change 'Rejoin the Federal Government' to something less... absolute? Like, I'd like to realize Doofania is not currently a thing (and I'd probably want to eventually give up on claiming it so explicitly), but it'd be nice to just maybe use a national to realize it isn't a thing, and then move forward from there, instead of our only option for self-reflection automatically locking us into rejoining.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It would certainly be a good bit more defensible.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Unless it is run by Doofenshmirtz?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes, actually. In fact, Agent Russ would tell you that until recent events, a significant faction in the CAIA considered a shadow war between Kronos and Drakktech a near-inevitability in the long term, and were debating how to prepare for that.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Also, out of curiosity, would it be outside the scope of this quest to replace such a thing with a different form of democracy? Like, I don't know, building a system for direct democracy and then getting at least the local governments to change the state constitutions to allow for such a thing?
Argidoll
And hast thou slain the Jabberwocky?
- Location
- Dreamland
There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding here. Doofania was never Doof's dream. It was a goal that happened to align with his actual dream, which was" make people like me."
This can be seen in the actual source material, where once Doof accepts his social network of Perry the Platypus and people who aren't Perry the Platypus, he settles down to become a schoolteacher and later an inventor.
Neither of which involved taking over the world.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
'Realizing you don't own Doofania the way you thought you did' is a tipping point that will occur if you continue taking 'anti-delusion' actions. Taking 'Rejoin the Government' is one way to tip yourself over that threshold immediately.
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Lab_Accident
A 2D 1D4
- Location
- Your dreams
At least the way I understood it, the way Doofania is described is that it is intrinsically tied to Doof's fantasies of Absolute Dictatorship, and that that can't change.
He can maybe realize he's not supreme dictator yet and work to make it real, OR he can do anything else productive, but he can't have his own country and make it productive. That he can't "gain more real power and influence" and "be a wacky supervillain who does things for petty reasons" at the same time, that it must be one or the other.