DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

[That-Random-Guy]

also hi T2E buddy pal friend it's me dagoth

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blinks
Oh, it's you! Fancy seeing you here, though in hindsight it was going to happen sooner or later. Hi!

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In the interests of this post not being pure social chatter, my thoughts on "Doofania" are that it makes sense, and (speaking as a relatively unengaged reader) clarifies the situation significantly, especially on the 'narrative arc' (for lack of a better phrase) level. In terms of what to do, I figure the clear best path for Doof himself is to have him start realizing that he is already loved, and that there's no reason to change from the current overall course—just, y'know, clarify his (and our) goals a bit.

 

[Arathnorn]

Also, out of curiosity, would it be outside the scope of this quest to replace such a thing with a different form of democracy? Like, I don't know, building a system for direct democracy and then getting at least the local governments to change the state constitutions to allow for such a thing?

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Making America better is certainly within the scope of this quest if the collective you wants it to be.

For obvious reasons, this will not take the form of serious considerations about the best form of electoral and societal organization. This may be a realistic Disney quest, but good lord do we not want to deal with actual political debate in our realistic Disney quest. Expect debates on the personhood of AI, and how to deal with a duck that owns a state, and rooting out evil spies. Not anything...

topical.

 

[BurnBright]

At least the way I understood it, the way Doofania is described is that it is intrinsically tied to Doof's fantasies of Absolute Dictatorship, and that that can't change.

He can maybe realize he's not supreme dictator yet and work to make it real, OR he can do anything else productive, but he can't have his own country and make it productive. That he can't "gain more real power and influence" and "be a wacky supervillain who does things for petty reasons" at the same time, that it must be one or the other.

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I mean, the problem is that, well. How does he get his own country, if it's not a dictatorship? Most people don't want to secede. So if he wants his own country where the Tri-State Area currently is, then he needs to be a dictator.

If he's willing to be a dictator, he can make his own country and do it productively, though he'd need to work towards the collapse of the U.S. government, which would be... risky.


He could also go with Drusselstein, of course.

 

[nwish425]

Making America better is certainly within the scope of this quest if the collective you wants it to be.

For obvious reasons, this will not take the form of serious considerations about the best form of electoral and societal organization. This may be a realistic Disney quest, but good lord do we not want to deal with actual political debate in our realistic Disney quest. Expect debates on the personhood of AI, and how to deal with a duck that owns a state, and rooting out evil spies. Not anything...

topical.

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Political debates are to be thrown off of Hoover Dam, I thought this was already clear.

 

[Lab_Accident]

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding here. Doofania was never Doof's dream. It was a goal that happened to align with his actual dream, which was" make people like me."

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I guess what gets me is the notion that having both isn't possible. That there cannot at the same time be a Doofania that isn't a dictatorial dellusion and also for people to like Doof for who he is.

Sure, that might have been true when the quest started and Doof thought he wanted to be a dictatorial despot, but as he realizes he doesn't want to be, can that not change at all? Is there no "Good Doofania"? It's give it up or bust?

 

[Argidoll]

I guess what gets me is the notion that having both isn't possible. That there cannot at the same time be a Doofania that isn't a dictatorial dellusion and also for people to like Doof for who he is.

Sure, that might have been true when the quest started and Doof thought he wanted to be a dictatorial despot, but as he realizes he doesn't want to be, can that not change at all? Is there no "Good Doofania"? It's give it up or bust?

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And what is a "good Doofania?"

 

[BurnBright]

I guess what gets me is the notion that having both isn't possible. That there cannot at the same time be a Doofania that isn't a dictatorial dellusion and also for people to like Doof for who he is.

Sure, that might have been true when the quest started and Doof thought he wanted to be a dictatorial despot, but as he realizes he doesn't want to be, can that not change at all? Is there no "Good Doofania"? It's give it up or bust?

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Again, what do you actually mean by good Doofania? Secession? Because people don't want to secede democratically, not here.

If it's just doing good things, then that's very possible.

 

[Lab_Accident]

I mean, the problem is that, well. How does he get his own country, if it's not a dictatorship? Most people don't want to secede. So if he wants his own country where the Tri-State Area currently is, then he needs to be a dictator.

If he's willing to be a dictator, he can make his own country and do it productively, though he'd need to work towards the collapse of the U.S. government, which would be... risky.


He could also go with Drusselstein, of course.

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Drusselstein. Tomorrowland. Mars. Space in general. Colonizing other worlds. Heck, that is Mewni's actual history!

There's a bunch of people currently persecuted in America, and the notion that we can't make a place where they won't be persecuted is...

 

[Arathnorn]

Heck, that is Mewni's actual history!

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This is not the argument you think it is.

 

[BurnBright]

Drusselstein. Mars. Space in general. Colonizing other worlds. Heck, that is Mewni's actual history!

There's a bunch of people currently persecuted in America, and the notion that we can't make a place where they won't be persecuted is...

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Okay, but that still involves giving up any claims of sovereignty on the Tri-State Area. And also it still couldn't be a dictatorship, and most people aren't persecuted enough to want to uproot their entire lives.

 

[Lab_Accident]

And what is a "good Doofania?"

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Oh, that's a simple enough picture to pay. Get the rejects, the people no one pays attention to. The toons, the AIs, the magic beings, sure, but also the misunderstood geniuses and mad scientists. The Doofenshmirtz.

Now get a land that isn't currently inhabited, or that can be bloodlessly assimilated. Build a place where they can just... Be. Unimcubered by people who would try to limit them based on who they are. Try to force them to be a certain way, tell them that things have to be the way they have to be, and they get no say. And tell them they can come if they want to.

Everybody deserves a place they belong to. Doof never really belonged on Drusselstein, and I don't feel like he ever really belonged in America either. And I dislike the notion that he has to change to fit into America, and not find a place he can be himself.

 

[BurnBright]

Oh, that's a simple enough picture to pay. Get the rejects, the people no one pays attention to. The toons, the AIs, the magic beings, sure, but also the misunderstood geniuses and mad scientists. The Doofenshmirtz.

Now get a land that isn't currently inhabited, or that can be bloodlessly assimilated. Build a place where they can just... Be. Unimcubered by people who would try to limit them based on who they are. Try to force them to be a certain way, tell them that things have to be the way they have to be, and they get no say. And tell them they can come if they want to.

Everybody deserves a place they belong to. Doof never really belonged on Drusselstein, and I don't feel like he ever really belonged in America either. And I dislike the notion that he has to change to fit into America, and not find a place he can be himself.

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I mean, frankly, most people aren't rejected enough by society to want to come there. Not many people would come.

 

[Lab_Accident]

Okay, but that still involves giving up any claims of sovereignty on the Tri-State Area. And also it still couldn't be a dictatorship, and most people aren't persecuted enough to want to uproot their entire lives.

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Yes, and I am objecting to the notion that Doofania must be a dictatorial state geographically located on the Tri-State Area. Heck, Doof canonically tried to make it an ultra-marine nation once. We could build it under the sea in international waters with his climate tech, a modern day Atlantis.

I mean, frankly, most people aren't rejected enough by society to want to come there. Not many people would come.

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Then make it a city, at first. It can grow bigger as people come.

There aren't a lot of Doofenshmirtz out there, it's true. But it's really painful to be a misfit and an outcast, to feel like you don't belong. And the Doofenshmirtzs of the world, by definition, don't belong. There are many, many people who have not been treated nicely by America. Do you honestly feel like there's not enough people who'd like a fresh start?

 

[nwish425]

There is a issue I have with the idea of updating the idea to be a good Doofania and how Doof shouldn't need to change...

Mirage is right, it is a neurosis.

 

[ilbgar123]

Yeah. Doof might be the most benevolent King, but he's not the sort of enlightened individual that I would trust with dictatorial power(and there's literally single digit individuals IRL or fictional that I would trust with power like that, Jesus and Buddha being two) at this point. He's, bluntly, too petty. Given the choice between any one King, I'd go for him in a heartbeat, but that says just as much about the other Kings as it does about Doof. Seriously, it's not hard to be a more appealing absolute ruler than Toffee or Bill.

From my point of view, being a benevolent megacorp isn't a bad thing to be. Heck, that's essentially what Doof's been doing. If we get Opinion and Loyalty boosts out of acknowledging that? All the better. Besides. I don't think America is unsalvageable at this point. If Doom achieves his victory against Toonkind, then I'd be willing to say we should go 'when the world turns it's back on you, you turn your back on the world' and colonize some place else, but until something like that happens, I say we at least try to work within the system.

 

[Chronobreak]

'N the real power behind the megacorpo overlord was the friends we made along the way, or some rot like that.

Seems to me like the real thing we gotta do is hit that cool fifty threshold on loyalty inside our heroes DNA and make them real friends. The crushing loneliness of doubting the love and affection of your peers-such a terrible thing for any mind!

Hope the good Doctor can find his happiness one of these days. A perfect moment of clarity, acceptance, reflection, and resolve.

 

[Lab_Accident]

Besides. I don't think America is unsalvageable at this point. If Doom achieves his victory against Toonkind, then I'd be willing to say we should go 'when the world turns it's back on you, you turn your back on the world' and colonize some place else, but until something like that happens, I say we at least try to work within the system.

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Doof's an immigrant. What loyalty does he really owe to the concept of America? Sure, the USA is salvageable, I agree. But it's also got about 250 of a very problematic history, so why should he be the one to try to fix this broken system instead of build an new one, if America was never particularly nice to him? Building things is what he does best.

Edit:
Doof dreamed of "a golden land of opportunity, a land with pioneering spirit which welcomed misfits like me. But, [he] ended up in America instead." Why not make that golden land real?


View: https://youtu.be/sop-5gBaKvs

 

[Torgamous]

Most people don't want to secede.

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Most people don't want to secede yet.

 

[nwish425]

Doof's an immigrant. What loyalty does he really owe to the concept of America? Sure, the USA is salvageable, I agree. But it's also got about 250 of a very problematic history, so why should he try to fix this broken system instead of build an entirely new one? Building things is what he does best.

Let's face it, it's 2022 and the American Dream is dead. Why not Dream a new Dream?

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Remember how we were just told to not be topical and bring debate on irl stuff in?

 

[BurnBright]

Doof's an immigrant. What loyalty does he really owe to America? Sure, the USA is salvageable, I agree. But it's also got about 250 of a very problematic history, so why should he try to fix this broken system instead of build an entirely new one? Building things is what he does best.

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I don't think it should be on the grounds of loyalty, I agree. Nation-states are a spook. But frankly, building a new state from the ground up is... very different from building an -Inator. It's a lot easier to do reform (at least, it is when you're the owner of a Megacorp in a fundamentally Disney based world) than to start a new country.

EDIT:

Let's face it, it's 2022 and the American Dream is dead. Why not Dream a new Dream?

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Also, at least try and pretend to be on topic, lol. It's 2018, not 2022.

 

[sunsunsunsunsun]

Even if "going somewhere else and making our own nation" was what we decided on doing, it doesn't change anything about the fact that Doofania does not currently exist, and could not exist as it's currently conceptualized by doof, and it's not healthy for Doof to believe that it does or could.

 

[Lab_Accident]

Remember how we were just told to not be topical and bring debate on irl stuff in?

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Apologies, I wasn't sure how else to phrase it. I have since corrected that.

I don't think it should be on the grounds of loyalty, I agree. Nation-states are a spook. But frankly, building a new state from the ground up is... very different from building an -Inator. It's a lot easier to do reform (at least, it is when you're the owner of a Megacorp in a fundamentally Disney based world) than to start a new country.

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Eh, not sure how much I believe on the viability of systemic reforms. Not when all the other Kings have a vested interest on the system staying the same.

 

[SuspiciousBird]

I'm not sure Doof himself would want Doofania anymore once he gets over his various trauma-induced delusions. Once he realizes that people genuinely like him without him having to force it upon them, would he still want to be a dictator, take on all that responsibility?

Given his canon decisions, I really do not think would. I think he'd rather try and help his people and his friends and stop the evil Kings out there—which is pretty much what he's already doing.

Also, I actually disagree with those that think corporate power is meaningless and/or boring. That's been the bread and butter of this quest and of DEI's power this whole time! This quest as a whole has not been boring, ever! As a matter of fact, plunging into "Create Tax Administration" actions sounds much more boring than anything we have going on now! Count me as a firm "stay a megacorp, help Doof fix his flawed understanding of the world, and then save it from all the baddies" supporter.

…with the one exception of becoming the eventual Prince-Elector of Drusselstein, because that would be amazingly horrifying and actually get Doof a royal title if he does end up still wanting it.

 

[BurnBright]

Eh, not sure how much I believe on the viability of systemic reforms. Not when all the other Kings have a vested interest on the system staying the same.

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I'll admit, I don't... entirely disagree with you. This is an area where Xanatos would be our greatest opponent, which... not super desirous of dealing with that. But I don't think creating a new country would be any easier, and to advertise that we're doing so would draw the ire of a great many parties.

 

[Nystical]

Eh, not sure how much I believe on the viability of systemic reforms. Not when all the other Kings have a vested interest on the system staying the same.

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This seems like a poor analysis of the setting.

Seems like the biggest priority for Kings would be to keep their power and influence, whether society changes or not. Xanatos and Khan for example.

Also some Kings definitely want to change society. And some even for the better, or what they think is the better. Winston, Yokai, Bellwether, Kane, Doris come to mind.

Seems like main ones who want it all to stay the same would be Glomgold and Doom. Well, Glomgold could be okay with any changes that allow him to keep his wealth. So even Glomgold is open to change.