Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
You can gold centralization with much less risk by building new trails instead. We're risking overcentralization with 1-3 cent.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Assuming we do:
[] [Main] Grand Temple
[] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
Our secondary options:
[] [Main] Grand Temple
[] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
Our secondary options:
- Expand Snail Cultivation -- goes 25-50% to 1 stat per turn
- Expand Vineyard -- goes 25-50% to 1 stat per turn, protects true city
- Saltern - Southshore Saltern -- goes 33% to 1 stat per turn in risk-free good.
- Policy (Megaproject Support) -- allows us to blitz megaprojects using true city to recycle slots
- Enforce Justice -- gets golden age, gives 1 stat per turn, 1 innovation roll per turn, protects true city
- Study Forest -- gets a single innovation roll.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Our cap as a Early Provincial Ancient Kingdom (Elective) was about 6 or 7. Oligarchy almost certainly shifted it higher.
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- Location
- The underworld
[X] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X] [Fyth] Fertility
[X] [Fyth] Fertility
1) I highly suspect that our new government has a higher Centralization cap due to the "Good mix of central authority" listed.
2) The +3 Cent is rather unlikely since we have a reasonable number of walls and we're only doing it as a [Secondary]
edit:
3) On the unlikely chance that both above turn out false, in the middle of a Golden Age with lots of stats to spare is one of the best possible times for this to happen.
I got no time!
Why am I still going with the analysis?!
Diplomacy 13 (+0+3) [+1]->13 (+3) [+1]
Still yet to cash in. Would generate 3 Overflow to Art when it does.
Economy 4 (+5+1) [-1]->11 (+1) [-1]
Econ Expansion 5 (+1)->4
As usual, add 2 Refugees and -1 City Tax.
Lost 2 slots to Refugees.
Stability -1->1 (confident)
Clearly the People approve of spanking quarreling shamans!
It even distracted people from the migrants, who were probably watching shamans arguing with great consternation.
Cultural
Art 13
Unchanged, but will overflow by 2 into Mysticism once Diplomacy overflows next turn. By 3 if we Secondary Festival. By 5 if we Main Festival
Mysticism 7 [-1]
Unchanged but will reach 9 next turn from Art overflow. We can push it all the way to 12 via overflow if we Main Festival though.
Fine Pottery
-Xohyssiri - Dominant
-Ymaryn - "That thing you keep grains in? Why bother?"
Fine Dye(this refers to Tyrian Purple like we have, Saffron and Lapis Lazuli elsewhere, not the 'common' browns, greens and reds of plant dyes, char and ochre)
-Ymaryn - Leading, close to Dominance.
-Hathatyn - We don't know their status here, but it's possible they have their own supply of Tyrian Purple, or they may be using mineral dyes.
Fine Textiles(this refers to Silk, Cotton, not sure if particularly fine furs and leathers count as this or their own category, but you don't get those in our parts, though our cow leather is going to be improving as we make extremely heavy use of fine white Calfskin)
-Ymaryn - "If it keeps your danglies in it's fine". Unless we discover Sea Silk(which lives around this climate type), we're probably not getting anywhere
-Xohyssiri - We know they have access to Cotton via the Swamp Folk.
-Swamp Folk - We know they have access to Cotton.
Gold
-Ymaryn - "Shiny~"
-Hathatyn - Diggy Diggy Hole
-Metalworkers - Diggy Diggy Hole
Silver
-Ymaryn - Interestingly, even a single silver mine was enough to take us to Moderate, suggesting that neither the Hathatyn nor the Metal Workers have particularly large silver mines
-Hathatyn - Diggy Diggy Hole
-Metalworkers - Diggy Diggy Hole
Salt
-Ymaryn - Leading. Just a short step to Dominant.
Wine
-Ymaryn - Leading . Just a short step to Dominant.
-Hathatyn - Hmm, they have their own wines? But then we could already make small amounts of wine from before, just not in industrial quantities.
Copper
-Ymaryn - Interestingly, even a single copper mine was enough to take us to Moderate, suggesting that neither the Hathatyn nor the Metal Workers have particularly large copper mines...or that they've been using up a chunk of their copper to make bronze, dropping their export supply.
-Hathatyn - Diggy Diggy Hole
-Metalworkers - Diggy Diggy Hole
Tin
-Metalworkers, Thunder Horse and Hathatyn have this for Internal use only. It's unlikely to be traded for a long time as a strategic resource.
I love Cosmopolitan Acceptance.
The farmers just want the trees and crops to keep growing, thanks.
Lets end the day at BOTH times!
Two days every day!
Every other day there is no work!
Also I like that shaman. He sounds like one of us.
Based on this setup, I believe Fythhagyna will fuse into Crow over time, as people start to consider Crow as her divine animal and Fyhhagyna as the human avatar.
Also to translate to more modern language, a shift is her underwear.
-Pregnant
-Visible breasts
-Visible child(inevitably deified)
Defines the most important female role as being pregnant and raising children.
Matron
-Clan leader.
-Mother Knows Best
-Traditionalist
-Women must be older to be a suitable matron, preferably with grown children of their own.
Defines the Older But Not Elderly Woman as a figure of respectability and responsibility.
Harvest
-Farm tools as regalia. Sickle, axes, plows, etc.
-Likely dressed as a farmer would, so in Sacred Forest it'd be likely forester's leathers(because anything lighter would be torn to shreds by trees and bushes, thus not farmer wear) with apron and medium length skirts, which were simple to make and move around in, as well as being practical when gathering fruits.
Defines the important part of nature as a resource. You take care of nature because this lets you get more stuff from it.
Fertility
-Dressed minimally and equipped minimally. Likely to have nature accents in her appearance, leaves, flowers and bark(the dryad look) should be common.
-Manifestation of the fertility of all, so the usual markers of female fertility(large chest, nice ass, muscular, but with ample body fat to show plenty rather than the leaner build of a warrior)...likely built like a JoJo female character then...
Defines the important part of nature as Nature itself. You take care of nature because it is the Right thing.
Broadest appeal overall, since it covers all three aspects.
They don't even know we stole the tech. They think he's dead!
Also funny how we can loot battlefields without even going there.
If we stay on Balanced I think the provinces are going to Survey for it. Bronze is just too useful.
Bronze being a cast metal does make for some tools being far easier to make. Forging a steel bell is a nightmare(and likely against public nuisance ordinances), but straightforward with bronze.
Why am I still going with the analysis?!
Diplomacy 13 (+0+3) [+1]->13 (+3) [+1]
Still yet to cash in. Would generate 3 Overflow to Art when it does.
Economy 4 (+5+1) [-1]->11 (+1) [-1]
Econ Expansion 5 (+1)->4
As usual, add 2 Refugees and -1 City Tax.
Lost 2 slots to Refugees.
Stability -1->1 (confident)
Clearly the People approve of spanking quarreling shamans!
It even distracted people from the migrants, who were probably watching shamans arguing with great consternation.
Cultural
Art 13
Unchanged, but will overflow by 2 into Mysticism once Diplomacy overflows next turn. By 3 if we Secondary Festival. By 5 if we Main Festival
Mysticism 7 [-1]
Unchanged but will reach 9 next turn from Art overflow. We can push it all the way to 12 via overflow if we Main Festival though.
Trade Status
| Resource | Status | Rivals |
| Luxuries | ||
| Fine Pottery | Minor | Xohyssiri |
| Fine Dye | Leading | Hathatyn |
| Fine Textiles | None | Xohyssiri, Swamp Folk |
| Gold | None | Hathatyn, Metal Workers |
| Silver | Moderate | Hath, MW, Xoh |
| Salt | Leading | None |
| Wine | Leading | Hath |
| Strategic | ||
| Copper | Moderate | Hath, Highlanders, Thunder Horse, MW |
| Bronze | None | Non-traded |
| Tin | None | MW (in), TH (in), Hath (in) |
| Iron | Non-traded dominant | None |
-Xohyssiri - Dominant
-Ymaryn - "That thing you keep grains in? Why bother?"
Fine Dye(this refers to Tyrian Purple like we have, Saffron and Lapis Lazuli elsewhere, not the 'common' browns, greens and reds of plant dyes, char and ochre)
-Ymaryn - Leading, close to Dominance.
-Hathatyn - We don't know their status here, but it's possible they have their own supply of Tyrian Purple, or they may be using mineral dyes.
Fine Textiles(this refers to Silk, Cotton, not sure if particularly fine furs and leathers count as this or their own category, but you don't get those in our parts, though our cow leather is going to be improving as we make extremely heavy use of fine white Calfskin)
-Ymaryn - "If it keeps your danglies in it's fine". Unless we discover Sea Silk(which lives around this climate type), we're probably not getting anywhere
-Xohyssiri - We know they have access to Cotton via the Swamp Folk.
-Swamp Folk - We know they have access to Cotton.
Gold
-Ymaryn - "Shiny~"
-Hathatyn - Diggy Diggy Hole
-Metalworkers - Diggy Diggy Hole
Silver
-Ymaryn - Interestingly, even a single silver mine was enough to take us to Moderate, suggesting that neither the Hathatyn nor the Metal Workers have particularly large silver mines
-Hathatyn - Diggy Diggy Hole
-Metalworkers - Diggy Diggy Hole
Salt
-Ymaryn - Leading. Just a short step to Dominant.
Wine
-Ymaryn - Leading . Just a short step to Dominant.
-Hathatyn - Hmm, they have their own wines? But then we could already make small amounts of wine from before, just not in industrial quantities.
Copper
-Ymaryn - Interestingly, even a single copper mine was enough to take us to Moderate, suggesting that neither the Hathatyn nor the Metal Workers have particularly large copper mines...or that they've been using up a chunk of their copper to make bronze, dropping their export supply.
-Hathatyn - Diggy Diggy Hole
-Metalworkers - Diggy Diggy Hole
Tin
-Metalworkers, Thunder Horse and Hathatyn have this for Internal use only. It's unlikely to be traded for a long time as a strategic resource.
We stole Bronze tech via migrants!
I love Cosmopolitan Acceptance.
Docking Devised.
That's one way to see it. Crow is highly relevant to the intellectual caste who think about Why and How things happen.
The farmers just want the trees and crops to keep growing, thanks.
Technology discovered: Schadenfreude
...that sounds like an easy mistake to make.
Lets end the day at BOTH times!
Two days every day!
Every other day there is no work!
Eyebeams!
Also I like that shaman. He sounds like one of us.
Based on this setup, I believe Fythhagyna will fuse into Crow over time, as people start to consider Crow as her divine animal and Fyhhagyna as the human avatar.
The King decides that they should fight about this after he's dead. This is way more fun to watch if you're viewing by the side of the spirits than having to be responsible for all this shit.
As we can see here, the Chiefs don't really deal much with Fythhagyna, as their concerns don't overlap at all.
Also to translate to more modern language, a shift is her underwear.
Mother
-Pregnant
-Visible breasts
-Visible child(inevitably deified)
Defines the most important female role as being pregnant and raising children.
Matron
-Clan leader.
-Mother Knows Best
-Traditionalist
-Women must be older to be a suitable matron, preferably with grown children of their own.
Defines the Older But Not Elderly Woman as a figure of respectability and responsibility.
Harvest
-Farm tools as regalia. Sickle, axes, plows, etc.
-Likely dressed as a farmer would, so in Sacred Forest it'd be likely forester's leathers(because anything lighter would be torn to shreds by trees and bushes, thus not farmer wear) with apron and medium length skirts, which were simple to make and move around in, as well as being practical when gathering fruits.
Defines the important part of nature as a resource. You take care of nature because this lets you get more stuff from it.
Fertility
-Dressed minimally and equipped minimally. Likely to have nature accents in her appearance, leaves, flowers and bark(the dryad look) should be common.
-Manifestation of the fertility of all, so the usual markers of female fertility(large chest, nice ass, muscular, but with ample body fat to show plenty rather than the leaner build of a warrior)...likely built like a JoJo female character then...
Defines the important part of nature as Nature itself. You take care of nature because it is the Right thing.
Broadest appeal overall, since it covers all three aspects.
Heh. Wise king.
Highly persuasive to nomads. Natural selection is murdering every nomad who thinks they can take us.
WINDFALL!
They don't even know we stole the tech. They think he's dead!
Also funny how we can loot battlefields without even going there.
And we have confirmation that the earlier thing was Arsenic Bronze, and we identified the Tin ore.
If we stay on Balanced I think the provinces are going to Survey for it. Bronze is just too useful.
Quantity has a quality of it's own after all.
Bronze being a cast metal does make for some tools being far easier to make. Forging a steel bell is a nightmare(and likely against public nuisance ordinances), but straightforward with bronze.
Road to Steel unlocked. Mwahahaha.
Imnprove Festival can only grant stability up to level two. Order of operations is determined by a random dice roll. If enforce justice occurs before improve festival, we'll end up at 2 stability not 3.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Do a main festival so it's a double main, kick the temple? That... would actually work okay.
I guess, but I like her untamed, herself, not bound to our service in return to for being bound to our service.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
No, WOG only a critfail would make this not work.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
S Saltern puts us at 2/6: 33% to getting twice the amount of salt (i.e. ancient world money) as we currently have. Which also adds diplomacy thanks to the market.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
See here.
Oh also @veekie. This line made me switch to fertility.
Heahhahahaha. Nice.
[X] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X] [Fyth] Fertility
[X][Main] Great Temple
[X][Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[X][Secondary] Enforce Justice
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Err, when did we get these? I remember people originally thinking the "blue stone" that turned out to be our copper mine was Lapis, but i dont even remember mention of another dye other than that and the snails...
On both of these, i think its the iron tools giving us an edge in how much we can draw out
At least with the "what if we take a negative stab and a positive stab while at 3 stab" scenario, it'd take a crit fail on admin to lose the stab due to the cap. This sounds like it should be the same thing...though i would certainly prefer a confirmation from @Academia Nut one way or the other
Still, for now at least:
[X] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X] [Fyth] Matron
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[X][Secondary] Enforce Justice
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Oh. Right, we have a legacy from rushing a megaproject back when. I'll edit fix.
We should really do that again some time.
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- Location
- Hell
We are Divine Stewards. We decided what nature is like. She is free and beautiful!
Bemused means unamused, so not really
zamin
The Watcher in the Dark
Eh, veekie's convinced me.
[X] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X] [Fyth] Fertility
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival x2
Personally, I'm not sure whether to go with "Harvest" or "Fertility" for Fyth from a purely mechanical perspective, but fertility has nekkid goddess, so it's obviously better from a fluff perspective.
As for the Double Mained Festival, I'm honestly not too worried about it. If it wins, great. If it doesn't, I'm not going to complain if one of the other winning options takes over a Secondary Slot. Still, I hope that making a big festival might get our shamans to calm down a bit and stop slapping each other over whether or not the goddess should be wearing underwear.
[X] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X] [Fyth] Fertility
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival x2
Personally, I'm not sure whether to go with "Harvest" or "Fertility" for Fyth from a purely mechanical perspective, but fertility has nekkid goddess, so it's obviously better from a fluff perspective.
As for the Double Mained Festival, I'm honestly not too worried about it. If it wins, great. If it doesn't, I'm not going to complain if one of the other winning options takes over a Secondary Slot. Still, I hope that making a big festival might get our shamans to calm down a bit and stop slapping each other over whether or not the goddess should be wearing underwear.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Tallllllyyyy!
Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 1820 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.1
Task: secondary
[34][Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[18][Secondary] Study Forests
[7][secondary] Change Policy - Megaproject Support
[6][Secondary] Improve Festival
[4][Secondary] Improve Annual Festival x2
[4][Secondary] Study Metal
[4][Secondary] Enforce Justice
[3][Secondary] Expand Snail Cultivation
[2][Secondary] Found Trading Post - Greenshore River Mouth
[2][Secondary] Found Trading Post - Greenshore River Mouth x2
[2][Secondary] Build Docks
[2][Secondary] Saltern - Southshore Saltern
[2][Secondary] Expand Vineyard
[1][secondary] Saltern - Southshore Saltern (0/6)
[1][Secondary] Expand Forests
[1][Secondary] Expand Vineyard x2
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Crow
[41][Crow] Spider-Eyed
[7][Crow] Teacher
[2][Crow] Spirder-Eyed
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Fyth
[20][Fyth] Fertility
[18][Fyth] Harvest
[9][Fyth] Matron
[4][Fyth] Mother
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Main
[44][Main] Great Temple
[1][Main] Improve Festival
Total No. of Voters: 52
Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 1820 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.1
Task: secondary
[34][Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[18][Secondary] Study Forests
[7][secondary] Change Policy - Megaproject Support
[6][Secondary] Improve Festival
[4][Secondary] Improve Annual Festival x2
[4][Secondary] Study Metal
[4][Secondary] Enforce Justice
[3][Secondary] Expand Snail Cultivation
[2][Secondary] Found Trading Post - Greenshore River Mouth
[2][Secondary] Found Trading Post - Greenshore River Mouth x2
[2][Secondary] Build Docks
[2][Secondary] Saltern - Southshore Saltern
[2][Secondary] Expand Vineyard
[1][secondary] Saltern - Southshore Saltern (0/6)
[1][Secondary] Expand Forests
[1][Secondary] Expand Vineyard x2
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Crow
[41][Crow] Spider-Eyed
[7][Crow] Teacher
[2][Crow] Spirder-Eyed
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Fyth
[20][Fyth] Fertility
[18][Fyth] Harvest
[9][Fyth] Matron
[4][Fyth] Mother
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Main
[44][Main] Great Temple
[1][Main] Improve Festival
Total No. of Voters: 52
I would be entirely unsurprised if (given we're on Balanced) this results in a province also putting up a S Saltern and Symphony providing a third.
- Location
- USA
So here's something interesting I found when going through the archives:
What I find VERY interesting here is how Centralization works with natural disasters. "So you know, I add your Centralization score to the Econ penalty from natural disasters like drought or plague". Technically this is the Negaverse QM talking, but presumably we have the same mechanics. While I knew that Centralization helped with droughts and plagues and the like, I didn't realize how MUCH it helped. Main Roads just jumped up my priority list...along with God knows how many other things...
What I find VERY interesting here is how Centralization works with natural disasters. "So you know, I add your Centralization score to the Econ penalty from natural disasters like drought or plague". Technically this is the Negaverse QM talking, but presumably we have the same mechanics. While I knew that Centralization helped with droughts and plagues and the like, I didn't realize how MUCH it helped. Main Roads just jumped up my priority list...along with God knows how many other things...
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So like Imma just gonna lay it out for funnies but if six people switched from Study Forests to Enforce Justice, Enforce would be in the lead and we can hit a Golden Age, where all of our Study actions are Moar Betta.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
Not sure the marches would go down south to help build a money-making machine, but it would be swell if it happened.
We have never seen Symphony provide actions on a single [Main]. We needed triple [Main] last time.
Compare that to the benefits we expect from a Golden Age along with not needing to take our province's action...
As to the [Fyth] vote...
When the reason people are voting is because they want to move the quest over to QQ, I don't really think I can argue against that.
- Location
- New Zealand
[X] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X] [Fyth] Fertility
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[X] [Secondary] Study Forests
Alright, so Festivals are super effective this turn and there's a decent vote building to finally study the TREES!
Guys if Study Forests actually wins I need to figure out a way to make everyone in this thread cookies.
[X] [Fyth] Fertility
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[X] [Secondary] Study Forests
Alright, so Festivals are super effective this turn and there's a decent vote building to finally study the TREES!
Guys if Study Forests actually wins I need to figure out a way to make everyone in this thread cookies.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
He's not talking about the marches.
Though I would be all the amused if Western Wall built a saltern.