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Hey guys; another lurker here who has been drawn out by the hubbub surrounding the latest update.

First, I want to acknowledge that I am a big fan of @eaglejarl, @Velorien, and @OliWhail's writing here. 640k words is a great deal to read and I wouldn't have stuck with it if you guys weren't engaging writers, and whatever happens here, I plan to continue reading whatever you guys write.

That said, I do think the outcome in the latest chapter is unfair to the player base. The general thrust of my argument has been made by others, but I'd still like to put it into my own words: Namely, given that the screwup was revealing sensitive information regarding Noburi's abilities during planning last chapter, in universe there should have been sufficient warning for the player base to spot their mistake and make an attempt at damage control.

Specifically, Noburi has a history of being obvious when he is angry at Hazō. The latest update contains examples of this:

And then there was Noburi, who seemed to be quietly simmering in a depressingly familiar fashion. What had Hazō done this time, other than placing Noburi and his skills in the spotlight the way his teammate had always wanted?

"That's right," Noburi said icily. "Great fun until some idiot decides to ruin it for everyone by showing off how clever he is."

That was uncalled for. What was Noburi's problem tonight?

Based on my model of Noburi, this behavior likely would have emerged the moment Hazō revealed Noburi's clan secrets, at the very least prompting him to shoot Hazō a betrayed glare at the moment of the mistake and treating him noticeably harshly while carrying out the mission in the previous update.

Of course, out-of-universe it's understandable why that didn't happen:

As a point of information: We didn't set out to screw you, and we didn't deliberately hold back information. We're all busy folk and it was only Wednesday afternoon (London time) that we realized what had happened and what the realistic consequences would be.

There can't be hints for a mistake the QMs didn't initially realize the players made. Given that the vast majority of players (and this lurker, at the very least) also did not realize a mistake had been made, it's entirely understandable! Accurately modeling an alternate universe and the people populating it is not a trivial task. Unfortunately, with the timing of the realization being Wednesday, this puts the players in the position of not getting hints they should have gotten (speaking from an in-universe logic standpoint) that could have lead to realizing the mistake and discussing it with the team, possibly talking Kagome out of making Minami mincemeat in the process. Instead, we have the hints only showing up in the chapter where Minami mincemeat is made, where it is too late to realize the error and attempt damage control.

That is my main concern with how things played out. Still, regardless of what the QMs decide, I hope this quest continues! I greatly appreciate the hard work everyone has put into this quest and will gladly keep reading wherever this may go.
 
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You know, part of me wants the next character (assuming Hazo dies) to be a savage bandit lord who wants to burn down the entirety of the Elemental Nations and rule the ashes.
 
If we do get a new character, I want 85% less sealing/innovation

Also, would a new character exist in the aftermath of Hazou's actions? Might be important to decide how Hazou goes down if so, due to concerns involving civil war and Jiraya's tattered influence.

Like, instead of just bombing our face, we could vote to go back to leaf and volunteer to be executed in order to save some of Jiraya's reputation... Somehow. Ya dig?

Hoping we continue on though.
 
If we do get a new character, I want 85% less sealing/innovation

Also, would a new character exist in the aftermath of Hazou's actions? Might be important to decide how Hazou goes down if so, due to concerns involving civil war and Jiraya's tattered influence.

Like, instead of just bombing our face, we could vote to go back to leaf and volunteer to be executed in order to save some of Jiraya's reputation... Somehow. Ya dig?

Hoping we continue on though.
There will be no execution by Kei's judgement. J will cover it up.
 
"Summoning involves interfering with the boundary between this world and others when it is successful."

Hazō gulped.

Keiko gave him a meaningful look. "That is why it is forbidden to discuss the details of the Summoning Technique with those who have not received the training. Let us not speak of this again."
If we gen a new character I want to posses someone in the vicinity of a failed summoning technique.
 
Like, instead of just bombing our face, we could vote to go back to leaf and volunteer to be executed in order to save some of Jiraya's reputation... Somehow. Ya dig?

I don't think Hazo would be executed. He just misjudged how much information he should give his lawful tea leader. Misjudgement? Sure. Stupid? Maybe. Capital crime? No, I don't think so.

On the other hand, hara-kiri might be something that would be useful in containing political fallout. I don't know--I don't understand real-world Japanese culture, much less Narutoverse pseudo-Japanese culture.

Kagome, though...yeah, his life is forfeit.
 
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There will be no execution by Kei's judgement. J will cover it up.
Way to focus on totally the wrong thing.

my point was that we might want to choose an optimal time and place to die, if we choose death, rather than randomly and pointlessly strapping a bomb to our face and leaving the deeply traumatized npcs to pick up the pieces however they can. Act to minimize or maximize conflict with our death, depending on who we want to play next time.
 
So let's stick some habits in the wiki, and include "follow habits on linktowiki" in every plan? Justified as Hazo keeping a journal with ha Iobits in it?
This has been proposed at least monthly since hillbilly mountain, for some reason it still isn't a thing.

if you all start voting in one- or two-line plans then we'll do our best to run with them. I suspect that (a) when running under a one-line plan Hazō will do things you disagree with far more often than he does under the current plans where we have a clearer picture of your intent and (b) there will be just as much upset.
Most of the quests I've read use one line plans and there aren't nearly as many problems as this one had since around hidden mountain onwards. Maybe you just aren't that good at it? Maybe just write MFD as a fanfic, since the writing is really good.
Not cool, @Briefvoice. You're deliberately giving out biased and misleading information to somebody who lacks the facts
For a really short version, briefvoice was spot on with how I feel about the situation.

I've already stopped reading the discussions and planing between chapters some time ago, because it wasn't fun looking at people trying to plan with GM's not providing basic information half the time, and I think imma just drop the story.
" your plan was too long so I skipped important parts because too many contingencies"
"Your plan didn't include obvious parts like "ask keiko if we're not being suicidally stupid" so now someone died cause hazou got suicidally stupid"
Yeah Im done. This is stupid on so many levels. Loved the story, bye.
[X] Action Plan: The Watchtower
[X] Action Plan: Commit Suicide
[X] Action Plan: Armageddon Initiative
Fake edit : people being rude can still be right you know.
 
Holy crap. Like, seriously? You mean I'm not a broken human (at least in this particular way), and other people have this same exact problem for the same reasons?!

Sorry, but I can't confirm that this isn't broken. Do you also break yourself more to try to get the people you like to like you?

Because that's me.
 
Yeah Im done. This is stupid on so many levels. Loved the story, bye.
[X] Action Plan: The Watchtower
[X] Action Plan: Commit Suicide
[X] Action Plan: Armageddon Initiative
Fake edit : people being rude can still be right you know.

[X] Action Plan: The Watchtower
[X] Action Plan: Commit Suicide
[X] Action Plan: Armageddon Initiative
Guys, I just finished saying that even if we choose suicide, we should choose our time and method of death more carefully so as to effect our next character in a positive manner.

If you don't want to continue on with a new character either, that's fine. But might I convince you to be kind to your fellow players? Anger at the GMs shouldn't result in making players lives harder. :)
 
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Honestly we should all just stop voting on things (EDIT - Well, except maybe Lore Update) until the GMs actually give a ruling on this, because they may well retcon things given the valid criticisms on how this was handled. They just need to all be awake to discuss it, so give it some time.
 
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@redzonejoe I have no preference on how this character ends, only that he does so I'm voting for all of the relevant plans. I may change votes after the QMs discuss and post, but for now enough other posts have been made from regulars and lurkers alike stating issues with the update posted so I'm not going to bother with comments, only voting.
 
My biggest problem with Suicide plan is the possibility of our teammates stopping us. And then we're placed on suicide watch, and things get even more awkward.
 
My biggest problem with Suicide plan is the possibility of our teammates stopping us. And then we're placed on suicide watch, and things get even more awkward.
We should still have the option to gen a new character or alternatively the stress might break the barriers in his mind that prevent the thread from talking to him directly.
 
@Muer'ci Why would the team get a chance to stop us? It sounds like an auto achievable result by the QMs own rules for internal team dynamics?
I dunno. Maybe trying to harm a party member in direct presence of others overrides that or something.

But we have Keiko "I can fix it" Mori, and Akane with 30 dice TM, and Noburi the medic.

It's not inconceivable to me that they would go "nope" on attempted suicide.
 
My biggest problem with Suicide plan is the possibility of our teammates stopping us. And then we're placed on suicide watch, and things get even more awkward.

If Hazo is going to suicide, it seems to me like the easiest way to do it would be to announce that he's going into exile with Kagome and then accidentally-on-purpose blow himself (and maybe Kagome) up. Or go on a murder spree that calls in Village forces. Either one avoids the possibility of his friends stopping him.

Hmm...in any event, I want Akane to get that pin. It would at least be interesting to watch. So, whatever Hazo decides about Kagome and himself, I'm going to say

[x] First give Akane her pin
 
At this point I think there should be sort of a Break Update. Not even a Lore Update, but a longer break to maybe give QMs more time to sort this out?
Also maybe at least make a proper Action Plan: Suicide, one on the level of this quest?

Also also many people made (and still do make) decisions under significant amount of emotional turmoil. Many of them probably already left, so no changing their minds. Besides- if they left for good, doesn't that mean they are no longer part of this quest, and as such have no more agency?

There are also issues the latest update brought to light are still being discussed, and maybe just maybe we have a chance of retcon? (can dream...)
 
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[X] Action Plan: Armageddon Initiative
[X] Action Plan: The Watchtower
[X] Action Plan: Commit Suicide
.
 
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Wow ......
thats the only word i can say
Well first off, i thank the all the gms, eaglejarl and others for the tremendous passion i get from reading this quest
Its been a exciting adventure and i hope it will continue so. I still do wish for a more clear communication on the players planning and qm plan's implementation.And please be patient with the many upset players, i mean it must be hard for them to swallow everything
And guys CHILL, seriously.This is clearly a rather dissatisfactory turn of even and something to be upset about.So be upset about it and then chill out t and work with qm to futher create a more enjoyable and fun quest Mfd. Hey, shit happens and its not like this character is unsalvageable or something.
For the betterment of us all, i suggest a 3 day interlude where no voting or discussion will not take place till everyone calmed down and get into a more productive state
Plan [X] For a rational mind, A cool head is necessarily
-The Quest is to experience a temporary suspension for 3 days, both for the well being of the qm AND the players.
-It gives qm to think and maybe make the quest even better by improving it, while giving the players a time to cool off.
-While it is taking place.no dicussion nor voting nor planing shall be taken seriously
edit: forget the last part
 
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Now I'm imagining that scene. Wish i was a better writer so i could share it.

Stunned, shocked Hazou staring at the red pool covering the invisible ground. Kagome, wide-eyed and panicked, worried about exile or death. Everybody else looking grim and stoic.

Akane turns to Hazou to get his opinion on what to do with Kagome.

He holds out his hand, and in the center, untouched by the red mist that paints the back of his hand and forearm is Akane's expensive gift, pristine and beautiful even here.

Kagome's Eyes go even wider, though he doesn't say anything. Akane is confused, but brushes it off. "How is that relevant? You need to focus."

Hazou can't find his voice for a minute, and when he speaks his voice is on the edge of broken. "Kagome-sensei helped me... For your birthday"

Words fail him then.

Akane reaches out slowly to take it, then shakes her head. "Now isn't the time for this!"

All along, Hazou's other hand had been in his pocket. He withdraws it now, clutching a shaped explosive. It's active and about to blow. The others all flinch away, before noticing the explosive is pointed back towards Hazou.

The pin, in his still outstretched hand, escapes the blast zone.
 
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