Beyond everything else, I am hyped as shit for Keiko getting a full fledged summoning contract, and cannot wait to see what animal it is.
 
[X]Action Plan: Poor Communication Kills
About this situation- I think it's best that we add provisions to help Kagome sneak in and decode seals on contract beforehand. It should let us steal it if it becomes necessary. Also, we should be more worried about this big seal the Yoshida put up. Do we have any info on what it is for?
 
You know, a modern-ish world where "Killing the owner of a contract makes you the new owner of that contract" was written into physics would be a very fun setting for another rational quest.

"Written into physics" sounds a bit strange to me, but I guess I just have a hard time imagining it as an immutable natural law. I could envision some malevolent higher power dictating that some puny human could have some scraps of power, but with the caveat that anyone stronger than him could take the power for himself by killing the current owner.

Now add a enough years so that the knowledge of this contract (or contracts) gets lost and/or hidden so some random schmuck accidentally manslaughters (or if you want to be darker, assisted euthanasia ("there must be a bearer")) some old mysterious dude and then has to riffle through the old man's stuff to figure out why he suddenly has pyrokinesis, telepathy, or [insert occult power here].

It could be a way darker Harry Potter style series where instead of an owl for a pet you get an imp who reads out the contract you just entered into rather than a letter from Hogwarts. Also all of the existing families based around the contracts that still exist have just learned that your formerly lost contract has just been found and they want its power for themselves... which only happens when one of them kills you.

For most needed plot devices, there could be clauses in the contract stipulating what one must do in order to maintain one's abilities and/or guidelines on how to improve them. Failure to comply would be met with penalties, like your location being broadcast to people who would use your power for themselves and/or unwittingly in service to the source of the power.

There would have to be a way to distinguish it from Worm and other "god-like entities don't need reasons" trope, but I think I have an idea for that:
The powers were given to make better soldiers out of humans for a war in some distant unfathomable place. You fight so you grow strong. You grow strong so you can serve. What happens when the higher conflict ends?

Or, since the power contracts were given long ago, the war ended and the power distributors lost. Once you figure this out, you have to figure out a way to beat whatever it is that defeated an interstellar physics-hacking/warping civilization by rummaging through the ruins.

If you aren't asteroid mining by ch. 3, you are doing it wrong.

Could be fun. Any suggestions or critiques y'all?
 
@Dictator4Hire , the idea sounds promising.
However,
  • Firstly, given that contracts will be passed on, and that humans on gaining a contract are told the terms, it seems unlikely that such info would be lost.
  • Secondly, are their any limits on the number of contracts a person can have? This would affect how contract holders behave with each other- as allies from people who can kill them for power or as people who want to kill the other themselves.
  • Thirdly, generic occult powers might not be the best here. You might want to build a 'class' system, where we have recognizable synergies and so on, which fits the theme of created soldier better.
  • Also, to what level are you implementing the masquerade here, if at all?
 
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Thanks for the first feedback!

Firstly, given that contracts will be passed on, and that humans on gaining a contract are told the terms, it seems unlikely that such info would be lost.

You're right. Instead, I think the society should be secretive where knowledge of the contracts themselves has been hoarded by those who have them or desire them. Of course, the PC would not have the luxury of such a lineage; he would be a usurper, an unprecedented opportunity for established families to prey upon.

Secondly, are their any limits on the number of contracts a person can have? This would affect how contract holders behave with each other- as allies from people who can kill them for power or as people who want to kill the other themselves.

Off the top of my head, people should be relatively fine sticking with only one contract... but I think things would be more interesting if not all contracts are created equal. Simpler, less taxing contracts would be easier to handle in larger amounts whereas invasive contracts that alter oneself would be nearly incompatible with each other and lesser contracts.

Thirdly, generic occult powers might not be the best here. You might want to build a 'class' system, where we have recognizable synergies and so on, which fits the theme of created soldier better.

I'll admit I basically used "occult" as a filler world for "defies the known laws of physics with malevolent, binding caveats." I think a part of the fun of the quest would be in seeing exactly how the contracts can interact with each other for "science's" sake. There (if I ever get around to really doing this and can convince someone to help my dumb ass out (paging smart person @Jello_Raptor )) will be some form of system in the background deciding whether or not a contract can function with another, but the players we definitely need to figure it out own their own by experimentation, stealing the knowledge from someone in the know, or impressing me. Do you kill an enemy and therefore take his contract or do you take him down non-lethally so that you don't experience any negative side effects to collecting a new contract?

For gameplay purposes, there will probably be a way to mitigate the side effects of inadvertently acquiring more contracts than you can handle, but the players probably wouldn't like it.

Also, to what level are you implementing the masquerade here, if at all?

It would be like an ominous, artificial cloud descending exorbitantly to blanket the planet in suffocating darkness lest the player intervene. Something Bad will happen unless the players find out what it is and stop it. Or you could try to leave Earth and run from whatever it is that originally made the laws of physics its bitch. I'd leave it up to the players.

Edit: now that I think about it,
Attack on Titan has a similar presence with the shifters.
 
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I'll admit I basically used "occult" as a filler world for "defies the known laws of physics with malevolent, binding caveats." I think a part of the fun of the quest would be in seeing exactly how the contracts can interact with each other for "science's" sake. There (if I ever get around to really doing this and can convince someone to help my dumb ass out (paging smart person @Jello_Raptor )) will be some form of system in the background deciding whether or not a contract can function with another, but the players we definitely need to figure it out own their own by experimentation, stealing the knowledge from someone in the know, or impressing me. Do you kill an enemy and therefore take his contract or do you take him down non-lethally so that you don't experience any negative side effects to collecting a new contract?
That might fit better for a SCIENCE! themed work, but I'm unsure how it would mesh with the Empowered being soldiers. They are meant to be an army, when this type of powerset promotes soloing stuff. I would say that building it as a powerset might fit the theme of being called to fight a war better, because these guys were designed to work as soldiers. Not heroes.
If you want, I'll PM how I see this magic system working to you so as not to clutter up the thread.
 
That might fit better for a SCIENCE! themed work, but I'm unsure how it would mesh with the Empowered being soldiers. They are meant to be an army, when this type of powerset promotes soloing stuff. I would say that building it as a powerset might fit the theme of being called to fight a war better, because these guys were designed to work as soldiers. Not heroes.
If you want, I'll PM how I see this magic system working to you so as not to clutter up the thread.
I'd be interested in seeing the discussion. Maybe have it on reddit, in the r/rational off-topic discussion thread or something?
 
Don't have a reddit account, sorry. We could include you in a conversation on this site though. Maybe I should make a thread in the Ideas/Worldbuilding Section?
It will probably take me an hour to get all this coherently together and present it while keeping some originality anyway.
 
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Don't have a reddit account, sorry. We could include you in a conversation on this site though. Maybe I should make a thread in the Ideas/Worldbuilding Section?
It will probably take me an hour to get all this coherently together and present it while keeping some originality anyway.
A topic in the worldbuilding section would probably be ideal, yeah. e: sp
 
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Thanks, I was concerned that if I logged out I'd never be able to log back in. Seems odd that there is no mention that one has to log out before requesting a reset via email, but maybe I'm just dumb.

E: mobile is working. Gonna have to use it for the next week at least.
 
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Moving on to in thread matters, does anyone want to try talk to that elder called Inoue? Mari insists they are not related and doesn't identify her, but it might be a possibility.
She doesn't seem to be affiliated to Kannagi or Takahashi.
 
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The only thing I don't like about this is the fact that we're having a "maybe we should just level this whole place" discussion when I'm pretty sure we're currently inside Takahashi's house. Also, I seriously oppose having that conversation at all.

Added note that "burn it all" means "cripple ability to fight back" not "kill everyone".

About this situation- I think it's best that we add provisions to help Kagome sneak in and decode seals on contract beforehand. It should let us steal it if it becomes necessary. Also, we should be more worried about this big seal the Yoshida put up. Do we have any info on what it is for?

Gave Kagome a few extra questions about these issues.

I also added a Conversation 0 to cover how people act during the meeting proper.

[X] Action Plan: Poor Communication Kills

This entire plan should take no more than a few hours immediately after the meeting. Once the conversations are done, the update should end, and allow us to vote on further action.

Conversation 0: Gasai Guilt
  • This is the second portion of the meeting where we are all officially in the room for Gasai's trial.
    • Conversation 1 should happen after this. I don't want anyone angry over those revelations in an environment where they really need to bite their tongue and elide any commentary.
  • Nobody speaks unless spoken to, unless it's a neccesary component of the ritual.
  • Anyone giving answers should be truthful, answer only the question asked, and volunteer no extra information. In particular do not apply any of your spin or judgement. Just the facts.
  • Kagome, Kieko, and Akane should be particularly mindful of all of this.
  • In fact, everyone in the group should pause for a few seconds between thinking up an answer and saying it, using that time to make sure the answer is minimal and unbiased.
  • Don't use mathematicians answers though. "Yes" is not a valid answer to "Was it A or B?" but "A" and "B" are.
Conversation 1: Inoue's Information
  • Before the debrief: Everyone makes sure the only people around are Inoue, Keiko, Noburi, Kagome, Akane, and Us. Minimize chance of external eavesdropping as best each of us can.
  • Let Inoue debrief us off screen unless she has something new to add.
  • We want to see how everyone reacts.
  • We react to the news of Kannagi's betrayal by dispelling, then we react as the thread approximately has.
  • Mention possible options of "Burn it all", "Run away quickly", and "Roll with it until we have the scroll, then one of the first two".
    • Note: "Burn it all" is not "kill everyone", it's "cause enough damage to cripple the village's ability to fight back".
  • Ask everyone what they think about those options, both how amenable they are to them, and concerns with them.
Conversation 2: Keiko Concerns
  • Talk to Inoue privately about Keiko's mental state.
  • Mention what she said to us, and our concerns about:
    • Takahashi worsening her depression.
    • Takahashi suborning her loyalty.
    • That we fear her crush on Inoue might now be her strongest tie to the team.
  • Ask Inoue what we could do about this. Mention following options and ask for her opinion on them:
    • <Looking for contributions on specific remedies for Keiko's mental state>
    • We could run, steal the scroll, and get Jiraya to teach Keiko the neccesary information.
    • Spend more time with the party. A N-days-on N-days-off schedule with Takahasi.
    • Find some way to give her active leadership again, some task which forces her to worry about our well-being.
    • Bad Option: genjitsu mind-fuckery
    • Bad Option: play into the crush to tie her deeper to our group
  • Does Inoue know whether Keiko has been using her bloodline during Takahashi's training?
    • We're worried it might be harming her and changing her mindset for the worse.
Conversation 3: Kagome's Catastrophes
  • Talk to Inoue and Kagome, again privately.
  • Ask both of them about their estimate of our tactical and strategic combat position.
  • How capable are we of destroying this place? How much time would it take for Kagome to deploy explosive seals all over town, enough to obliterate everything/kill most people?
  • How capable are we of an assasination? against Takahashi? other leaders? could we make it look like an accident?
  • How effectively can we run away? Kill pursuers?
  • How much do we know about the scroll's security measures? Do they think we could steal it? destroy it?
    • Ask Kagome "Pretend you're the one designing the scroll security measures but with the tools you think village sealmasters have.
    • Would you, with your actual skillset, be able to get through that?"
  • Ask kagome if there's any updates from his research on the village's seals.
    • Does he think he could disable or disrupt them?
    • If he got a chance to study the summoning scroll, does he think he could vet it for safety? How much time would he need to do a basic job of vetting the seal? (One that would satisfy Inoue levels of paranoia, not Kagome levels of paranoia)
    • Does he have any guesses on what that big Yoshida seal is?
Conversation 4: Needling Noburi
  • Make sure this is private, with only Nobby and Us listening.
  • Ask him how he's feeling about the Yuno betrothal stuff.
  • Ask him how he would feel about the following options:
    • Run away immediately, leaving Yuno behind.
    • Run away but take Yuno with us.
    • Letting the marriage go through and staying.
    • Finding some way to disrupt the marriage while still staying. (Politically incredibly bad).
  • If he seems amenable to advice:
    • Point out that arranged marriages do happen and if both parties are reasonable, willing to compromise, and care about each other's well-being then love will often come in the long term.
    • If those things aren't there then it's really difficult to create happiness and stability.
  • Do you know why Yuno is considered cursed? If not, what is your guess? Also, could you ask her next time you get the chance?
  • Does he think Yuno's reliable? Does he actually want to be in a relationship with her?
  • If Nobby asks why we're asking, tell him that we're trying to figure out how to deal with all of this craziness. We want what's best for the team, but that means knowing what everyone in the team wants.
Conversation 5: Akane Assessment
  • Talks to Akane, again privately.
  • Mention that she shouldn't have brought Yuno into the base. What if she sneaks in at night to steal/stab Noburi?
  • Try to be a little less trusting of people she doesn't know well or who don't have the trust of the entire team.
  • Tell her to ask herself "what would Hazou do?" when dealing with non-group members. This won't always be the right option, but it should always be an option she considers carefully.
  • Be kind and understanding as we talk with Akane.
  • Give her a hug if she wants. Tell her that we understand how hard this is for her.

The update needs to end no later than 8 in-game hours after Inoue gets back, allowing us to vote again. We should also schedule this update so we have some time to talk to Keiko/others immediately afterwards (Immediately afterwards in game time, two updates from now in external time). Feel free to not go through all the conversations as long as they go in order and the update ends as early as possible in-game.



I want to make sure that if we run, we take the entire team with us. That means knowing how they feel about things and gathering more information on their mental state.

We have very little to lose by doing this and the information we gain can allow us to keep the team together no matter what option we choose next.



Edit 1: Changed "Proto-Plan" to "Plan". Added an explicit call for people's opinions in Conversation 1. Added note to leave some time to talk to Keiko/others. Added some explanation/justifications to the rear end of the plan.

Edit 2: Voted for own plan ...

Edit 3: Added some options for helping Keiko to Conversation 3

Edit 4: Added note to ask Nobby about Yuno's cursed status. Added Conversation 5.

Edit 5: Grammar and spelling. Added Akane Hug.

Edit 6: Changed "Scene" to "Conversation" so that the plan is a little less prescriptive to the QMs. Added "Run and get jiraya to tech keiko" to possible options to discuss with INoue. Added questions about stealing the scroll.

Edit 7: Added note that QMs don't have to write all the conversations as long as they short circuit correspondingly early. Re-ordered the conversations in the order I want to have them.

Edit 8: Added note asking Inoue about whether Keiko has been overusing her bloodline during training.

Edit 9: Added questions for kagome about sealing research. Added note on what to tell nobby if he asks why we care. Added conversation 0 to cover conduct during the second half of the meeting.




I like this, I'd be happy to continue the worldbuilding and brainstorming in another thread, or help out if you actually want to start a new game. EIther way though, we should probably do this elsewhere. No need to derail any further.
 
Chapter 44, Part 3: Best Left to the Professionals
Chapter 44, Part 3: Best Left to the Professionals
Hazō reached out to tap Keiko on the shoulder as they walked to the Takahashi mansion, immediately realised that was a bad idea, and instead asked her in a low voice whether he could have a word. The two dropped back behind the rest of the group.

"What is it?" Keiko asked nervously.

"Something you said earlier has been bothering me," Hazō said. "When you said you couldn't talk about your training with outsiders, what exactly did you mean?"

Keiko was silent for a few seconds, long enough that Hazō began to grow worried, especially given the kind of concerns he already had.

"I suppose you of all people might understand, Hazō," Keiko finally said.

"When someone without sufficient training attempts sealcrafting, they risk having an accident," she said as if stating a fact (which she was, if you replaced "risk" with "absolutely guaranteed").

Hazō nodded.

"I infer from some of Kagome's more terrified ramblings," she went on, "that one of the most disastrous kinds of sealcrafting accident involves interfering with the boundary between this world and others—worlds whose inhabitants, environment, or even fundamental laws may be inimical to our own."

Hazō nodded again, impressed at the succinct summary.

Keiko's eyes glinted like ice as she turned to look straight at him.

"Summoning involves interfering with the boundary between this world and others when it is successful."

Hazō gulped.

Keiko gave him a meaningful look. "That is why it is forbidden to discuss the details of the Summoning Technique with those who have not received the training. Let us not speak of this again."
 
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That explanation actually sounds like a good reason for Hazou, and to a lesser extent Kagome, as he doesn't do much research anymore, to hear the theory of how summoning works. Knowing some of how the worst kind of sealing accidents work, should allow the sealer to spot some of the possible ways their seal can interfere with the boundaries between worlds. Can Hazou justify not taking a way to reduce the odds of the most dangerous kinds of sealing accidents slightly?
 
I am much less worried about Keiko's continued loyalty. We gotta trust her. This is where she begins to blossom into the Self-Actualized Keiko she was always meant to be.
 
"Summoning involves interfering with the boundary between this world and others when it is successful."

Keiko gave him a meaningful look. "That is why it is forbidden to discuss the details of the Summoning Technique with those who have not received the training. Let us not speak of this again."

I confess I don't see how one is cause for the other. It just doesn't follow for me, especially considering that a background in sealing makes one more likely to understand what the fuss is about.

Besides, summoning realms could be reached on foot in canon. Was that changed?
 
When we get the contract I want Hazou to look at it so that we can try to work out what all the components do later.

(In a purely theoretical and non-practical way with no chakra involved at all because Hazou likes his brains not splattered all over the walls and ceiling with psuedopods and eyes and teeth coming out of the empty void in space and time where his head used to be, thank you very much.)
 
I confess I don't see how one is cause for the other. It just doesn't follow for me, especially considering that a background in sealing makes one more likely to understand what the fuss is about.
If somebody with no knowledge of chemistry attempts to perform an experiment, they risk blowing things up.

With demolitions, you blow things up when you are successful.

Somebody with chemistry training can appreciate the risks of demolitions better than someone with no relevant background, but that doesn't mean you'd want them anywhere near your C4.

Besides, summoning realms could be reached on foot in canon. Was that changed?
You don't know, and it doesn't sound like Keiko is going to tell you.
 
Man, when Keiko's not having one of her "life is pain" moments she's actually pretty fucking badass.
 
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