I'm in the middle of a reread where I copy-paste every tidbit of information about sealing just to try and infer its geometry.
Ooh, do you mind posting the info somewhere when you're done? I'd love to go over it myself. Maybe we can even make it into some sort of wiki. Which reminds me, I need to polish up and publish my notes on NSL...

For example, when you emerge from the afterlife, we could then ask "Okay, what's the state of Leaf? What's your relationship to it?" If you encounter a new plotline, like the Great Seal, we could be asking "What do you want this arc to look like? How do you want to engage with it?"
For me this would somewhat ruin the experience because the "shape" of the world would then be subject to my influence rather than being "the way it is". It would feel unrealistic, and the realism is one of my favorite parts of this quest.

Also, I can't believe I missed Velorienmas.

Happy (belated) birthday @Velorien, and happy (belated) Velorienmas to all.

Edit: More afterlife company votes:
[x][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō finds a clear "adventure path" to meeting up with Kakashi
[x][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō finds a clear "adventure path" to meeting up with Shikigami-sensei
[x][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō finds a clear "adventure path" to meeting up with Shinji
[x][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō finds a clear "adventure path" to meeting up with @Halberdier
[x][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō soon meets The Original Lore Forbidder (1-5 updates)
[x][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō soon meets Kurosawa Shinji and Akane who have been traveling together for a while (i.e. 1-5 chapters)
[x][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō soon meets Pain (i.e. 1-5 chapters)
[x][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō soon meets Itachi, who was vaporized in the RER blast (i.e. 1-5 chapters)
[x][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō soon meets Zabuza (i.e. 1-5 chapters)
 
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[x][Path] Chapter 702 stands, Hazō wakes up in the afterlife.
[x][Path] Chapter 702 is retconned, and rewritten such that Hazō survives. Other miscellaneous changes are made such that the quest remains playable. See below for more details.
[x][Progression] Hazō's overall rate of progression is fine.
[x][PowerUp] Hazō does not need an immediate power-up
[x][PowerUp] Hazō should gain a power-up in short order (e.g. as discussed in the thread, Mangekyō Iron Nerve, Jashin-powers, etc).
[x][Rift] Orochimaru brings the rift back to Leaf.
[x][Rift] Orochimaru still absconds with the rift.
[x][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō finds a clear "adventure path" to meeting up with Akane
[x][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō soon meets Akane (i.e. 1-5 chapters)
[x][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō finds a clear "adventure path" to meeting up with Kakashi
[x][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō finds a clear "adventure path" to meeting up with Shikigami-sensei
[x][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō soon meets Zabuza (i.e. 1-5 chapters)
[x][AfterlifeExitSpeed] Hazō can learn of a way out of the afterlife, but finding more lore or discovering its location will be an odyssey in itself
[x][AfterlifeExitSpeed] Hazō soon learns of a way out of the afterlife, but it will take a while to get there
[x][AfterlifeExitSpeed] Hazō soon learns of a way out of the afterlife, and can get there almost immediately
[x][AfterlifeXP] Hazō is somehow partially or fully immune to afterlife XP drain, and is therefore XP-positive immediately
[x][AfterlifeXP] Hazō suffers XP drain at first, but can eventually find a way to slow it or stop it, allowing him to continue gaining XP
[x][AfterlifeChakra] Hazō quickly finds a way to regenerate chakra in the afterlife
[x][AfterlifeChakra] Hazō can find very rare ways to recover chakra in the afterlife, but it remains a scarce resource
[x][AfterlifeChakra] Hazō has no special way to recover chakra in the afterlife, so he has a finite amount of chakra to use.
[x][AfterlifeResearch] Research should be a primary focus in the afterlife
[x][AfterlifeResearch] There should be some research elements in the afterlife arc, but they can be much later or reduced in scope
[x][SurvivalWhy] Hazō mentions the deadman's switch last-minute, and Orochimaru is successfully deterred from acting. Tsunade is able to remove the bioseal.
[x][SurvivalWhy] The kill-switch misfires due to some strange bloodline interaction and Hazō survives it.
[x][SurvivalWhy] A teammate kills Hazō while the rift is open to disarm the kill-switch. Hazō walks back out of the rift and reverse-summons out of range of Orochimaru's reprisal.
 
[x][Progression] The pacing should be such that Hazou can plausibly fight Hidan and potentially win (immortality hax aside, stats only) after the adventuring in the afterlife is concluded.
[x][PowerUp] Hazō should gain a power-up in short order (e.g. as discussed in the thread, Mangekyō Iron Nerve, Jashin-powers, etc).
 
[x][Path] Chapter 702 stands, Hazō wakes up in the afterlife.
[x][Progression] Hazō's overall rate of progression is fine.
[x][PowerUp] Hazō does not need an immediate power-up
🔸Progression is balanced well for me when there is pressure to come up with ideas like skyslicers or the extra 10000 chakra stored in clones while there is a steady feeling of getting stronger in the background. Getting strong numbers to roll verses numbers is fun too, but a tier lower. Underlying any individual preference - is trust in the collective taste of everyone's processed votes + the talent and skill of the authors to produce a marvelous continuation.

[X][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō soon meets Akane (i.e. 1-5 chapters)
[j] Romeo's death is rolled back to before he drank poison.
[j] In the afterlife, Romeo soon meets Juliet (i.e. 1-5 Stanzas)
🔸Hazō's time alone in the afterlife before meeting anyone feels precious as a chance to reflect on his life and let readers vote on changing his personality if they want to. Missed Akane this last arc, false hope that things would have been different with her grounding presence or not.

[x][AfterlifeManyPaths] Hazō goes to the afterlife, then directly to the Human Path
[x][AfterlifeExitSpeed] Hazō can learn of a way out of the afterlife, but finding more lore or discovering its location will be an odyssey in itself
[x][Rift] Orochimaru still absconds with the rift.
🔸Without a promise of total victory when we leave, long afterlife arcs can still pay out character growth before going out and risking failure. With a high chance of victory, any length afterlife arc works fine. Not against Tsunade chasing Orochimaru away from the rift part way back in futures where Leaf scattered.

[x][AfterlifeXP] Hazō suffers XP drain at first, but can eventually find a way to slow it or stop it, allowing him to continue gaining XP
[x][AfterlifeChakra] Hazō has no special way to recover chakra in the afterlife, so he has a finite amount of chakra to use.
🔸Minato Sealing could be a fun answer to drain. With notes XP to take TH to 30 and unlimited death respawns, maybe the 40 TH requirement can be loosened to 30. And a Minato seal researched to recycle or preserve a pool of chakra from drain.

[x][AfterlifeResearch] There's no need for Hazō to do research while in the afterlife so long as it doesn't affect our XP rate
[x][AfterlifeResearch] There should be some research elements in the afterlife arc, but they can be much later or reduced in scope
🔸Research needs a long term patch to make it less unfun on the GM side. Nothing against taking a pause.

[x][AfterlifeTime] So far as Hazō knows, afterlife:Human Path time is 1:1
[x][SurvivalBioseal] (if Tsunade removes Hazō's killswitch) The extra chakra coil is removed
🔸Would be sad to lose the chakra coil but still keep kill switches in our blood bioseals. Killing my kneejerk "we should have died ages ago" response to power ups after dying. Regardless how we got here, viewing these choices as how to have the most fun moving forward. Thank you for reading.
 
Vote closed New
Scheduled vote count started by Paperclipped on Feb 20, 2025 at 12:41 PM, finished with 258 posts and 53 votes.
 
[x][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō finds a clear "adventure path" to meeting up with Kakashi
[x][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō finds a clear "adventure path" to meeting up with Shikigami-sensei
[x][AfterlifePeople] In the afterlife, Hazō soon meets The Original Lore Forbidder
 
(Canon?) Interlude: Beyond the Veil New
(Canon?) Interlude: Beyond the Veil

"Morning."

Jiraiya looked up to see Elias standing over him, his pipe in his teeth. The old man's clothes ('overalls', he called them) looked just as strange as they had the first time the Sannin saw them. The fact that he still looked like an old man was astounding. He had been here for at least ninety kiloglasses according to some of the other residents but had barely de-aged.

"Morning yourself. Come to join me?"

Elias flicked his pipe from one side of his mouth to another, considering.

Jiraiya was sitting seiza on the closest approximation of a tatami mat that he had been able to produce. An indistinct reddish lump sat on the grass before him and one of the afterlife's unchanging and eternal silverbark trees spread itself above him. Back in the Before, it would have been a pleasant scene, especially during a warm summer with a yellow sun smiling down, the occasional white fluffy cloud, and perhaps a bit of breeze. In a meadow such as this, there would likely have been small furry critters lolloping around being adorable.

There was no sun here. The temperature never varied. There was no wind, and definitely no adorable furry creatures. Not this close to a settlement.

"The mat looks good," Elias grunted. "Nice texture. Very crisp."

Jiraiya's face split in a smile. "Thank you. You're a good teacher."

"When did it come from?"

Jiraiya looked down, running his fingers thoughtfully across the tight weave of the mat. "A chat with Sensei in his private study when I was fifteen." He touched a faintly darker spot. "I spilled my tea there. Black tea, bitter and sharp."

Elias grunted. "Good, but bring it forward next time. Kid memories are the easiest to hold onto. You need to focus on your adulthood."

"That's my current project, actually." He gestured to the reddish lump.

The old man grunted. It might have been an invitation to continue.

"When I was forty-three, I was prepping for a mission to Cloud. My cover was a potter, so I learned pottery. I'm making some clay so that I can sculpt Ma and Pa."

"Them those frog people you mentioned?"

"Toads, but yes. They were my teachers for decades, and some of my best friends. I'm not willing to lose them yet. I'm going to sculpt their likenesses."

Elias nodded. "Yep. Firsties always go for the physical appearance. That's backwards. It's not the faces that are important, it's the emotions. The times you shared, things you did. Still, you're in your first decade. Do it your way."

"Are you sure I'm in my first decade? How can I know how long I was in the Wild?"

"No way to know. Time gets slippery, further out you go. I've had friends show up out of order—Sarai and Bartholomew, both of 'em said they arrived right near here, weren't in the Wild long. He said he died three days after me, she said she died six years after me. She was in town four kays before he arrived."

Even after living—heh—in the settlement for two hundred glasses, Jiraiya still needed to translate the time units. Four kays, four kiloglasses, a kiloglass was theoretically a thousand days or about three years, so...twelve years? Of course, the Normative Glass contained an arbitrary amount of sand, so there was no actual way to know if one glass was even remotely close to twenty-four hours on the Human Path, so the whole thing was something of a farce. Also, 'Normative Glass' was a very pretentious name chosen by the founder of the settlement, about whom little was still remembered.

"Your friends have weird names." It was better than continuing to talk about the nightmare that was his time in the Wild.

Elias grunted. "Dunno about that, sandal-boy. Seem pretty normal to me, but 'Jiraiya' sounds like somethin' my grandson would have come up with. Dreamy little kid, always scribbling stories. Said he had too many in his head, needed to get them out. Tried to read some of 'em a few times, but they were too wild for me. All 'bout wizards and dragons and stuff. Not righteous."

The older man's bizarre accent only came out when he decided to play it up in order to tease Jiraiya.

"Yeah, don't get started on your whole 'righteous' bullshit," Jiraiya said. "Bunch of twaddle, you ask me. You get one medic-nin walking around your backwards little mudhole and boom! Everyone loses their mind for thousands of years." He sniffed dismissively. "Assuming it was actually thousands of years. Sounds like you're yanking my chain, you ask me."

"He weren't nowhere near me," Elias said, his tone more serious. "And he weren't one of those medic types you keep talkin' about. He was the son of God, come to save us all."

Jiraiya made a point of looking pointedly around at the afterlife scenery, then back to his teacher. "How's that working out for you?"

Elias snorted and flicked his pipe from side to side. He lifted a hand to it and inhaled deeply, then breathed out. A ring of smoke drifted to Jiraiya, shifting and wobbling in the still air as smoke was wont to do. It puffed against his face and dispersed, but not before he smelled its earthy musk and was briefly transported back to days past, when he was twenty and Beth was nineteen and they would sit on a haystack in Pa's fields to watch the fireflies come out as night was falling.

He blinked, snapping back to his current reality with wide eyes. "Elias, what are you doing? You didn't reclaim it!"

Elias's wrinkled and sun-weathered face crinkled into a smile that was more in his eyes than on his lips.

"S'all good, boy. I've got plenty of smoking times in the old noggin, I can afford to spare one, and now you can remember it too. Might could help you bring up some memories of your own but it'll for sure give you a piece of me to hold onto."

"You're not Leaving, are you?" Jiraiya asked, hitting the capital letter hard the way everyone else did. His heart would have pounded if he had still had a pulse, but the afterlife took even that from you.

"Nah. Maybe someday, but not yet. The Lord is patient and there's still plenty of people to help." He raised an eyebrow at the indistinct reddish lump sitting in front of Jiraiya. "Including a certain sandal-boy who can't seem to remember what clay looks like."

Jiraiya looked down at the construct that he was struggling to reify. He looked back up at his teacher.

"I'm working on it, okay?"

Elias's eyes twinkled and he flicked the pipe from side to side.
 

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Č̸̢̨̡̧̢̛̥̼͔̪̟̞͖̥̮̹͕̳̦͎͇͖̔̿̒̃̆̅̂̌̐͂̈́̆̒͌̍̏̄̋̋͋́̈̇̃͊̑̿͋͘͜Ȇ̶̛̳̹̜͕̿͐̒͋̆̊A̵̧̫͍̭̥̪̳̤̩̘̤̻͍̳̖͔̭͓̱̬͓̝̘̮̫̗͉͚͖̳̣̾͌̽̑̾̓̂͒S̵̢̢̢̧̪̟̙̠͙̯̱̺͉͚̬̫̩̯̩͈̬̫͔͍̹̖͎̦̻̠̯͍͛͑͆̃̀̉E̶̠͔͍͇̤̣̘͇̯̋̄̈́̂̋̿̂̐̒̐̌̽̓̆̇̾̈̀͋͆̋́̎̚̚͝͝L̵̨̧̨̛͈̳̩͉͖͈̻̬̞̩͋̓̍̏̒͗͊̊̾͑̄̊̐̏̽̉͑̀̿͛̽͂̏̈́͛͑͒̂̂̐͘͘̚̕͝͠͝Ȩ̸̛̼̦̦̋̐͐́̃͑̂͌S̷̨̛̬̮͍̙̲͔̣̤̣̱̗̬̑͗̈͒͋́̽̒͐͆̌̉̽̈́̉̉̈́̐͂̒̚͝͠S̵̩̭̘̩̯͈̏̍̄̓́͊͑̽͒̋̀͌͆̔̊́̏̎̅͐̆̒̕̚̚͠͝͝͠͝ͅ ̷̗̳̃͌̀́͋͊̉̈́̍̂̌̏̾̄̀͛͝W̵̟͈͇̳̻͔͙̘̳̦͙̝̬̾̌̐̈́Ǎ̴̧͎̤͚̪͇͚̥̮̲̘͇̫̹̞͓̤̗̓͗̃͒͛̐́̓̾͋́̈́̈́̆̅̒̉̓͗͒̅͘̚̚͜Ṱ̷̡̨̡̡̤̖̦̟͎͉̥̪͈̲̭͖͕̫̘̟̥̱͇̳̞̼̫̮͙̯̤͔̗̱̟̣͋̆̏̊̎͛̉͌̓͒̓̌͐̈́C̵̡̢̧̥̝̩̘̗̰̦̘̠̥̭̲͉͍̩̥̏̎̃̚͝H̷͕͔͓͔̰̜̙͙̠̟̹̦͖̲͙̪̳̞̞͍̱̝̙͓̜̞̫̑̒̃̔̉̇̔̀̉̍́͗͂̊̂̈̑́̽̀̾̏͠͠͝Ȩ̸̧̪̬͕͉̻̼̲̣̺͓̖͇̩̦̙̲̖̫̞̱͉̪̖̹̾̂̆̈́͂̄R̸̡̨͙̹̹̺̹͍̘͕͈̮͎͕̹̦͉̖̯̟̱̖̫̦̺͓̳̟̅̀̒̽̎͌͒͘̚͜͜,̵̡̧̭̦̺͎͇͓̻̼̺̥̯͉̼̫̰͙̹̜̹̪̫̩̟̼̤͇̬̼͚̪̻̯̦͎̑̊̀̾̒̋͋͝ͅ ̷̧̡̢̩͇̝͎̞̼̹͇̺͎͑̄̍̅̆̉̒̑̓̓̃͑͑̅̓̍̏̽͑͒̄̇̌̏͂̓̇̏̾̋̉̀͝ͅT̵̨̧̧̡̰̺̹͖̖̦̰̹̥̺͍̗̬̪̲̦̣̱͉͈͔̦͍͖̠͚̞̠̼̯̯̅̉̃͆̆́̈̇́͗̄̃̒̿͛̋̐͌̽̎͜͝͝Ų̶̧̧͓͙͇̲̟̼̙̜̘̞̹͙͖̘̼̀͋̈́̀͑́̒͂̎̆̓̽͐̈͘͠͝͝͝ͅͅR̴̛͍͔̩͚̲̞̲͍͖͓͙͛̀̐̀̒͆̒̔͗̂Ņ̷̱̟̠̖͉̱̱͍̤̥̭̯̟͓̯̪̙̦͉͉͈͓̫̝̖̠̒̓͆̾̀̄͐̍̽͋̕͝͠ ̸̢̛͔͕̲̰͉̬̳͓̙̳̜̲̦̜͖̰̠̹͍̓́̒̑̈̌̄͆͒̑̀̿́͐̆̅͊̉̓̉̅̏͝͝ͅŸ̸̙́̋̿̈́̆̐̽̈̈́̀͌̀̎̍̊͝O̴̙̻̙̗̗̅͐̉̊̽͋̓̋̂̂̏̄̆̓͊̄̾̈̽̀̋̀̍̎́̚͠ͅƯ̷͍͉̬̓̀̇̈́̓̿͋͊̈́͗̇̇͐̀̒̒́͜͝͠R̷͓͎̋̑̑̈̉̍̒͒͒̌̒͊̈̅̂̐͐̊͗̀̆͌̅͛͊͘͘͘͠͠͝ ̸̨̨̨̛̞͇̠̺͙̤̩͈̯̭̠̝̰͈̤̒̀̂̋̌͌͆̄̚͠Ģ̵̧̛̮̻̠̪̬̠͈͔͇̹̟̞̗͇̤̮̳̖̩̼̼̟̮͊̇͋̿͌̂̃́̅͗̀͆̊̀̈́͌͗̓̄́̓̾̈́̍͆̓̚̕͜͝͝͠͠À̸̧̡̡̨̛̹̗̭̜̭̼̳̞̜̝̙͇̖̯͖͕̝͚͔͕̥̥͓̻̣̻̫̠̟̌̓́́̄͌̃͐̑̌̀́̅͆̊̚̕̕͜͝Z̶̨̢̢̛̗̼͚͉̫̼̰̰͚͖̖͉̞̲͉̾̓̈̾̔͗̐̿̓͛̔̓̑̏͊͑͌̿͋͐̅̈́́͘͘͝͝ͅȨ̸̛̥̣̤͇̭̟͖̺͚͔̠͎̥̫̖̱̗͉̳̰̗̯̤̯͓̳̱͔̬͕̈́̇̔͗̈́̄̌͆͗̋̅̓̈͐̅̐̓̀̔̓̀̉̄̐̉̆̕̚̚͘̕͜͝͝ ̵̨̢̛̛̙̦̠͍̺̖̻̤̯͓͕͍̥͇̠̤̤̫̫̻͉͎͎̥́̈̀̔̓͆̅̈́͛͆͐̑͂̔͌̉͛͋̂̀̌͘͜͝͝Ứ̷̡̢̨̹̞͓̪͚̲̟̙̤͕̫̪̭͎̩͔̖̺̫̺̻̝̞̠̺͔̟̖̙͉̗̾̀̊̎̀̂̓́̾̌͐̾͒̇́̈̂̆̇͌̄̈́͂́̋̈́̅͊̕͘͘͘͝ͅͅͅP̴̧̨̨̡͕̻͍̠̦̪̺̹̦̮̟̤͉̺̘̗͚͈͍̝̯̺͇͖̹̾̏͜ͅͅỜ̸͇̮̥̈̇̊̿͐͑͗̉̓͑̈̌̄̆̆̈̿̃̾͋̆̋̉̒̄̑̀͛̃̐̃̚͠N̴̨̛̳̖̰̩̺͇̭̖̦͇̦͕̣̻̉̇̊̿̓͊͌̇͗̈̏̿͂̃͐̅͂̇̈̑̈̓̉̅̈́̊̉̅́̚̕̚͘͠͠ͅ ̶͚̑͊̀͛̀͌̊̊̿̅̑̀̽̈́͘͠T̷̡̡̢̝̭͎̦͍̦͖̱̩̭̜̝̪̓̓̓̌͌̋̄͘H̵̝̬͍͔̩̲͕̮̥̲͍̺̼̭̆̍̾͌̀͛͒̓͐̂̂̆̋̎̕I̵̢͔̎͋̊̒́͒̀̿̿́͆̓̐̈́̃̔̾̒̿̕͝S̸̡̛̰̤̥͎̯̖̲͈̲̮̪̼̰̰̺̯̩̹̝̮̤̥̒̅̿̅̅̋̌͊̂́̋̆͒͆̇̄͒̈̾̾͂̅̓̽̈̽͌̀̐̈͑̚͜͝͠͝͠ͅ ̷̛̮̖͆̽̄́̅͋̔̓̂̋͑̀̔̃̄̏͛̄̓̾̏͐̀̋̈́͘̕͝͝͠͝W̵̧̢̧̛̩̣̩͙̭̳̱̯̘̤̭̥̮̤̉́͂̃̎̍̀̋̓̄̋͋̋͐̽̅̇̏͝R̶̨͍̘͍̳̻̫͇̣̭͙̟̳̗̰͇̥͖͖͚̪͚̱̪͜͝Ę̸̢̧̢̛̛̛̯̮̗̫͎̦͕͈̜̣͉̦͉̜̟̹̻͚͚̗̳͐͌̃̄́͌͊̔́͆̅̀͛̐̓̏̋̋̽̋̐̑͗͛̔̅̕͘͘͝ͅT̷̠̖̓͆̏͒͑̄͊̃̍̿̔̐̈́̉́͗̑̌̈́̾̆͌̀́͂̕̕̕͘̚͘͝ͅC̵̢̻̤͎̤͕̙͎̞̦͇͇͖̽̀̉̽̂̓̈͑͗̅̀͑͂̊͊͋̈́̃̄́̋̑͝Ḩ̵̧̧̢̛̦͙̖̮̪̝͉̝̘͚̹̪̭͔͇͙̭̳̖̈́̌̄̀̈̽͛́̌̇͒͗͆̒̉̑͝ͅĘ̸̟̥͖͍̫͇͎̝̳̤̹̮͎̋̐̾̆͐͐͗͒̍͂̂̆̍͘̚͘͝D̸̢̛̛̹͈̲̜̞̲̜̯̟̮͎̣̹̦̪͙͇͙̯͙̖̗͖͉̈͂͆͑͂̍͑̀̒̿͝ ̷̢͉̖̣͓͈̥̫̼̜̞͔̞̤̻̬̖̹̮̘͒̃͊̈́̃͂̏Ţ̶̣͖̯̜̻̫̿H̸̢̧̨̨̢̨̼̺̠͙̘̯̼̟̰̩͙̩̻̟̙̟͖͈͈̖̠̼̳͙͓̮͓̪́͆͑̎͛̃̀̕͠ͅĮ̷̡̨̧̦͚̱̭͙̜̗͙͖̝͖̦̪͖̳̯̰̜̰̋̀̏͊̉̓͗́͑͂͑̓̂̅̚͘͜ͅN̷̡̧̠͕̳͙͕͕̤͇̖̰̗̘͎̳͔̰̋͌̌͒̑̓̂̈̑̿̓̆́̐̄̆̄̋̽̕͝ͅͅĢ̷̧̨̬̰̼̭̟̗̼̠̟̠͍̖̼̱͙͆͆̌̌̑̑́̕̚͠͝͝
 
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I wonder if this means there's a translation effect in the afterlife. After all, it doesn't sound like Jiraiya or Elias have been around each other's cultures long enough to learn a whole new language (if that's even a thing you can meaningfully do while suffering path drain), and unlike the EN's shared language or the auto-translating-telepathy of the Seventh Path there's no way the two of them shared the same language to begin with.
 
Expectation management: Most likely, this story is non-canon. It came about because @Velorien has been having a rough time and asked if one of us could handle the update for this slot. I said I could and went off and wrote the first thing that came to mind without talking to the others. It's possible that the afterlife will be full of people from many different IRL cultures and locations, but it's probably more likely that Hazō will find himself encountering only EN-style people and culture.

The whole 'reifying things from your memories' is also one of those unexamined things that spun out from my fevered and unrestrained brain.
 
Also, 'Normative Glass' was a very pretentious name chosen by the founder of the settlement, about whom little was still remembered.
Jiraiya: "Sounds like some shit my son would name."

[later]

Jiraiya: "Hey Hazou."

Hazou: "You recognize me!"

Jiraiya: "Nah, but I only have one son that's as frustrating as you. Now come give me a hug and tell me what happened."
 
All will reach Nirvana eventually, so argurably Buddha's main purpose is to fill non-existence with blackjack and hookers
 
Change to QMs' missions statement New
We thank everyone for the feedback on our response to the player-submitted letter.

Our overall takeaway is this: We're going to change our mission statement as QMs, so that our priority is making MfD a fun and interesting story first, and a simulation second. We're not going to abandon elements of the latter, but we are going to be toning it down substantially.

We've listened to all of the voting and in-thread discussion, we've collated the results and chewed it over among ourselves. Our final understanding of what the community as a whole wants – and yes, this is not going to perfectly match any individual person's opinion – can be summed up as the following priorities, loosely ranked from most to least important:
  1. Marked for Death should be a fun and exciting story and everything else, including the simulation, should serve that goal or at least not interfere with it
  2. The overall difficulty of the game should be turned down, reducing narrative downsides from strong opposition, particular choices, or bad luck. When negative consequences happen, they should be reduced in magnitude (e.g. making plotlines where failure doesn't necessarily equal death)
  3. We QMs should do more narrative-level steering towards interesting arcs, cool power-ups, Forbidden Lore, and so on. The players should be able to disengage from plotlines they don't want to interact with
  4. Simulation should still be strong at the tactical level (e.g. combat is handled mechanically without the numbers being fudged) but we should lean more narrative as we go higher in scope to make sure challenges can be overcome, while keeping things consistent and plausible (e.g. invent reasons for Akatsuki not to pursue opening the rift, to relieve pressure on Hazō)
We're still interested in dialogue on this topic, so we would appreciate clarifications if you expressed feelings roughly in line with what we said above, but you want to provide a more nuanced view. Also, if we should add or remove things, or have just totally misunderstood the general will of the playerbase, please let us know!


The changes are going to take some time to settle in for both the QMs and the players, and there will undoubtedly be some mismatches between expectations; hopefully we can all give one another the benefit of the doubt when these issues crop up. In order to minimize them, we'd like to calibrate a bit ahead of time. In general terms, we'll try to design more solvable plotlines with on-level opposition for Hazō, but that doesn't cover everything. Here is a specific example that we'd like feedback on, to help us do the aforementioned calibration.

We have previously set that Earthshaping is a masterwork ninjutsu, made by Tobirama Senju or someone of similar skill, and it ended up in Leaf's library because it looks innocuous to those who don't actually know it, as it has only non-combat utility and limited utility at that. The TN for making it is going to be stratospheric.

The players want to make variants of Earthshaping, for example to get access to runecrafting substrate earlier or to turn Earthshaping into a combat jutsu. If we were playing this with "simulationism on", this would be functionally impossible for Hazō at his likely TH30-40ish. Orochimaru, one of the best human technique hackers, could barely make a version of Earthshaping that allowed for earlier substrate creation, and even that required many tradeoffs in Earthshaping's capabilities (e.g. range, cost, concentration requirement).

Without getting into the numbers and the details ("but we'd be making a Tweak and we only need it to work at level 50, which we already have!"), Hazō basically wouldn't be able to make this change in the likely duration of the quest. Bigger changes, like making Earthshaping combat viable (undoing the majority of the jutsu's actual details, basically making a fully general earthbending technique), might well be impossible even for Tobirama. So, we want to ask: what do you want us to do in this situation?
  • Should we keep the target changes ~impossible (think: >TN70) as we think they should be, and have Hazō-pilot just say that he doesn't think it can be done?
  • Should we make the target changes accessible within Hazō's TH skill (TN30s-40s) and ignore the implied setting consequences if analogous changes are similarly very easy? (That is, make this a Hazō-exclusive privilege)
  • Should we declare that tweaking jutsu is actually really easy, set the TN in an accessible range, and quietly make THers everywhere much more powerful?
  • Should we 'compromise' somehow, setting the TN high but not beyond what Hazō could potentially reach (e.g. TN 50s?)
  • Something else?
We mainly are asking this because we want to understand how the players would like us to deal with situations like this in general, where player desires run against what we think should happen in the simulation, and we expect that this is going to be representative of what we should be doing overall. In addition to this specific situation, we're also very interested in hearing what you think we should be doing generally.
 
I'm afraid I don't really keep up with the mechanical side of the story, so this might be a nonsensical question:

Is there precedent (explicit or implicit) that TH'ing a given jutsu becomes easier the higher ranked the TH'er is in that jutsu?

That is to say, would it be narratively and/or mechanically coherent for Hazou, with Earthshaping... 50 (apparently) to have TH TN 30, while others with only the minimum required Earthshaping investment to have TN 70?
 
I'm afraid I don't really keep up with the mechanical side of the story, so this might be a nonsensical question:

Is there precedent (explicit or implicit) that TH'ing a given jutsu becomes easier the higher ranked the TH'er is in that jutsu?

That is to say, would it be narratively and/or mechanically coherent for Hazou, with Earthshaping... 50 (apparently) to have TH TN 30, while others with only the minimum required Earthshaping investment to have TN 70?
So, no. But it's an interesting concept. There is a bonus for the highest AB jutsu in that Element, so Hazou gets a +6 on all his Earth ninjutsu TH rolls since his highest Earth ninjutsu AB is 6. Now we could also add [jutsu] AB to the roll for Tweaking as well, so he'd get another +6 for an effective +12.

  • Should we keep the target changes ~impossible (think: >TN70) as we think they should be, and have Hazō-pilot just say that he doesn't think it can be done?
  • Should we make the target changes accessible within Hazō's TH skill (TN30s-40s) and ignore the implied setting consequences if analogous changes are similarly very easy? (That is, make this a Hazō-exclusive privilege)
  • Should we declare that tweaking jutsu is actually really easy, set the TN in an accessible range, and quietly make THers everywhere much more powerful?
  • Should we 'compromise' somehow, setting the TN high but not beyond what Hazō could potentially reach (e.g. TN 50s?)
  • Something else?
I think my thoughts here sort of depend on the difficulty of Tweaks in the first place. My understanding was that they were significantly easier than hacking the jutsu from scratch. Such that a TN 90 jutsu to create could plausibly have a TN in the 40s for Tweaks. Mostly because I thought the difficulty of the Tweak was mostly based on the change and not the difficulty of the jutsu.

But if I'm miscalibrated that's fine. I'd probably prefer either of these options.
Should we keep the target changes ~impossible (think: >TN70) as we think they should be, and have Hazō-pilot just say that he doesn't think it can be done?
Should we 'compromise' somehow, setting the TN high but not beyond what Hazō could potentially reach (e.g. TN 50s?)
Just IC information that it can't be done and we can move on.
 
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Marked for Death should be a fun and exciting story and everything else, including the simulation, should serve that goal or at least not interfere with it

Agreed, yeah. We're all here to have fun, with the friends and the community we've built. I don't think this is too controversial of a change, and I thank the QMs for making it.

The overall difficulty of the game should be turned down, reducing narrative downsides from strong opposition, particular choices, or bad luck. When negative consequences happen, they should be reduced in magnitude (e.g. making plotlines where failure doesn't necessarily equal death)

Again, I'm down. The world's on fire in nine different ways, and... yeah. This is a fun game, and a source of joy in a world that is increasingly sparse of things to find joy in. Lowering the difficulty means it's easier to interact/engage with, especially on days where you don't have very many spoons to dole out. As someone who's had to take several breaks, I appreciate this change <3

We QMs should do more narrative-level steering towards interesting arcs, cool power-ups, Forbidden Lore, and so on. The players should be able to disengage from plotlines they don't want to interact with

Yes please. It was mentioned, offhand, that the QMs were surprised that the playerbase decided to try and rediscover Runecrafting, as opposed to just "going out, finding lore, and then patching the Great Seal via paper sealing." And the collective response was something to the effect of "wait, that was an option?" I think some narrative signposting would be helpful, and contribute to the overarching goals.

I also enjoy the new ability to disengage. Ritsuo the Bigot, leader of the Totally-Not-Christians-Clan is a tiresome thing to engage with, but we-the-playerbase kinda had to engage with them during this last election arc because there was a very real chance that Ritsuo was going to be elected Hokage. The ability to just hold up a weary sign, saying "can we please not" would have been very helpful, here.

I do worry, somewhat, about what will happen when the playerbase is split on whether or not they want to engage with certain plotlines. But whatever, I'm not going to borrow trouble from the future. We have enough trouble going on in the present, lol

  1. Simulation should still be strong at the tactical level (e.g. combat is handled mechanically without the numbers being fudged) but we should lean more narrative as we go higher in scope to make sure challenges can be overcome, while keeping things consistent and plausible (e.g. invent reasons for Akatsuki not to pursue opening the rift, to relieve pressure on Hazō)

Thank fuck, honestly. Let the universe crack imbibe in their preferred choice of chemical suppressants for a while. We need a break, lol.

  • Should we 'compromise' somehow, setting the TN high but not beyond what Hazō could potentially reach (e.g. TN 50s?)

I propose the following:
  • Tweaking ES to further supplement its "noncombat" modules is within the realm of TH 30, but only if you min/max what you're going for. If you're tweaking ES to better optimize producing substrate, then you remove its sculpting/filtering/craftsmanship abilities, stacking on chakra costs and other such disadvantages.
  • Tweaking ES into a "combat" jutsu is possible at TH40, but its best results are going to be suited towards establishing Blocks or Debuffs, rather than direct attacks.
  • Hazou, at TH 40, is able to make an attack jutsu/stunt that rolls its attack using Earthshaping level, rather than its own, but any advantages the jutsu has (such as +AB to attack) scales off of its own level/AB.
    • In LotRoL, Chidori is a similar jutsu that rolls Taijutsu. This example is less powerful that that, in that it uses another jutsu's level, rather than a main combat stat's level.
 
I propose the following:
  • Tweaking ES to further supplement its "noncombat" modules is within the realm of TH 30, but only if you min/max what you're going for. If you're tweaking ES to better optimize producing substrate, then you remove its sculpting/filtering/craftsmanship abilities, stacking on chakra costs and other such disadvantages.
  • Tweaking ES into a "combat" jutsu is possible at TH40, but its best results are going to be suited towards establishing Blocks or Debuffs, rather than direct attacks.
  • Hazou, at TH 40, is able to make an attack jutsu/stunt that rolls its attack using Earthshaping level, rather than its own, but any advantages the jutsu has (such as +AB to attack) scales off of its own level/AB.
    • In LotRoL, Chidori is a similar jutsu that rolls Taijutsu. This example is less powerful that that, in that it uses another jutsu's level, rather than a main combat stat's level.
FWIW, this is too far for me. ES is fundamentally a noncombat jutsu and turning it into one is jumping the shark.

Tweaking it to produce substrate at a lower level, fine that's what it does just a little sooner than otherwise.

Tweaking it to be more chakra efficient, also fine, it's a small modification overall.

Tweaking it into a generalized Earthbending jutsu 5 orders of magnitude faster, with no startup/shutdown cost, and no breaking painfully? It's not ES anymore. I say no.
 
We mainly are asking this because we want to understand how the players would like us to deal with situations like this in general, where player desires run against what we think should happen in the simulation, and we expect that this is going to be representative of what we should be doing overall. In addition to this specific situation, we're also very interested in hearing what you think we should be doing generally.
I would also like to request that, whatever the decision, it's passed on to Hazou-pilot to give to us. "It's impossible, even for Tobirama or Orochimaru," or "Hazou thinks that if he had a [lot/little] more Hacking experience, he could come up with a similar-enough result" or even "Hazou thinks that if he made a [chidori-esque] jutsu, he could do it, but this current avenue isn't viable."

Basically, whatever the decision, pass it on to Hazou-the-character, so he can pass it on to we-the-playerbase.
 
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