Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

_The_Bomb · Aug 29, 2023

eaglejarl said:
Everyone but Noburi has refilled to full CP. Noburi is a little above half (exact number TBD).

Alright, now that we know physical attacks do zero damage (or one stress if we use GS) it's time to change our game plan.

This cave is a horrifically bad matchup for us, but we're Summoners. We've got half of Noburi's barrel and everyone's entire reserves to work with.

Summon Cantelope, our near-jōnin combat specialist with potent Sun Element ninjutsu (162 CP).
Summon Canon, our ninjutsu specialist (112 CP).
@faflec are there any other combat-spec dogs/pangolins with good ninjutsu that will fit in the tunnels? If so, summon those too.

Reverse our usable formation so that the fleshy humans are on there outside and the popable summons are on the inside. Put the new summons on DPS with Noburi (under strict instructions to stay at range and avoid so much as a scratch) and have Kei and Hazō join Yuno on guard duty.

Cariyaga · Aug 29, 2023

_The_Bomb said:
Alright, now that we know physical attacks do zero damage (or one stress if we use GS) it's time to change our game plan.

This cave is a horrifically bad matchup for us, but we're Summoners. We've got half of Noburi's barrel and everyone's entire reserves to work with.

Summon Cantelope, our near-jōnin combat specialist with potent Sun Element ninjutsu (162 CP).

Summon Canon, our ninjutsu specialist (112 CP).

@faflec are there any other combat-spec dogs/pangolins with good ninjutsu that will fit in the tunnels? If so, summon those too.

Reverse our usable formation so that the fleshy humans are on there outside and the popable summons are on the inside. Put the new summons on DPS with Noburi (under strict instructions to stay at range and avoid so much as a scratch) and have Kei and Hazō join Yuno on guard duty.

Saying this in thread:

Under FtD rules, "ninjutsu specialist" to me largely means "someone who has a lot of jutsu that aren't high enough level to do anything useful in on-level combat".

Also, what we've seen of Cantelope is not useful in caves.

Shrooms · Aug 29, 2023

Cariyaga said:
Saying this in thread:

Under FtD rules, "ninjutsu specialist" to me largely means "someone who has a lot of jutsu that aren't high enough level to do anything useful in on-level combat".

Also, what we've seen of Cantelope is not useful in caves.

Hazou brought him into the other cave to fight and Hazou knows his abilities better than us, so I assume his jutsu do in fact still work in caves

_The_Bomb · Aug 29, 2023

faflec said:
I remain concerned about detonating explosives, even if they're training tags - we don't know how stable the cavern is and don't want to set off a cave-in.

What about at the start of the plan? The cavern we are in is gigantic and using heavy ordinances was literally the SOP in the initial exploration of the caverns.

Sir Stompy · Aug 29, 2023

eaglejarl said:
Everyone but Noburi has refilled to full CP. Noburi is a little above half (exact number TBD)

eaglejarl said:
Hazō has a Mild "Electrical Burn" Consequence. Yuno's 4-box stress track is full but will reset before the next battle. Noburi and Kei are unhurt. Kei, Hazō, and Yuno are currently at about 80% chakra. Noburi had already spent something like 1500 chakra covering everyone's summons, jutsu, and chakra boost, plus what he spent in this fight. That leaves him 500 more in his barrel.

Which one of these is right?

_The_Bomb said:
Summon Cantelope, our near-jōnin combat specialist with potent Sun Element ninjutsu (162 CP).

Summon Canon, our ninjutsu specialist (112 CP).

@faflec are there any other combat-spec dogs/pangolins with good ninjutsu that will fit in the tunnels? If so, summon those too.

If it's the former, this is a good move, although I wouldn't spend more than 300-400 CP on Summons right now.

@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

How powerful are explosive seals? If my model is correct, they're roughly as powerful as a hand grenade. Hand grenades don't cause trenches to collapse, and almost certainly wouldn't cause the caverns to collapse.

Even if full power tags are too dangerous in the team's opinion, what about training tags that are Weapons:2 or Weapon:1? Still too dangerous to use?

_The_Bomb · Aug 29, 2023

Sir Stompy said:
How powerful are explosive seals? If my model is correct, they're roughly as powerful as a hand grenade. Hand grenades don't cause trenches to collapse, and almost certainly wouldn't cause the caverns to collapse.

Also using heavy ordinance was the SOP for the first several days of cavern exploration.

Sir Stompy · Aug 29, 2023

_The_Bomb said:
Also using heavy ordinance was the SOP for the first several days of cavern exploration.

Using full power tags is dangerous when enemies are in the same Zone, but training tags shouldn't be dangerous. Only a TN 20 to dodge, and now Kei can do damage.

I don't think we were facing spectres in the first few days of exploration.

_The_Bomb · Aug 29, 2023

@eaglejarl @Paperclipped @Velorien
What is Yuno's estimate for how fresh the Yūma's trail currently is? We've been discussing it on discord and we must be seriously close by now. Confirming whether we are right would have a big impact on how we should proceed in the plan.

Sir Stompy · Aug 29, 2023

@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

Does Pangolin Earth Armor qualify as a jutsu that would damage the spectres? Or is this a "try it and find out" sorta deal.

Sir Stompy · Aug 29, 2023

faflec said:
Kei: Suggest using ranged Earth Domes/Electrocution Seals, or Pangolins Reach to keep enemies off-balance...or any other offensive ninjutsu that could be effective.

Can we suggest "low power explosives" too? That should be fine to use in the same Zone as the rest of the team. Pangolin's Reach was tried, it's level one, useless.

Also ranged Earth Domes are useless against an enemy that can walk through rock. I don't see the point of suggesting them. Placed on the ground, they make real rock, it's not a construct - that might hold a shade.

faflec said:
If it's a Seventh Path shade - Hyena, Cat, ... - Hazou reverse summons immediately. No way we're risking a Dragonshade.

This doesn't fix anything, we would reemerge from the Seventh Path in the caverns - alone. Instead. throw a Goo Bomb to deter pursuit, and Tunnel Excavation up and out.

We would also need to burn a round summoning a Dog to do this. We have no extant Summons.

faflec said:
If Hazou (or Kei) think they can't kill shades, they apply Maneuvers to support the others.

Based on the mechanics Hazou can do either 3 stress per round if PEA works, or 2 stress if we just have GS. So he's actually the second most damaging party member we have. I think we should have him try PEA in the next combat to see if it works to damage the shades.

Instead, suggest Yuno Maneuver and apply Blocks to defend teammates and the same with Kei if low-power explosives and ninjutsu don't work.

I would also implement @_The_Bomb 's suggestions of summoning ninjutsu spec Dogs, Canun and Cantelope. We have the chakra, and they can hurt the shades. While Hazou can do max 3 and probably more like 2 stress per round.

Cariyaga · Aug 29, 2023

Sir Stompy said:
Can we suggest "low power explosives" too? That should be fine to use in the same Zone as the rest of the team. Pangolin's Reach was tried, it's level one, useless.

Also ranged Earth Domes are useless against an enemy that can walk through rock. I don't see the point of suggesting them. Placed on the ground, they make real rock, it's not a construct - that might hold a shade.

Earth Dome said:
Forms a dome of chakra-construct granite with the two seals at opposite ends of its diameter, outside the dome. Can be any size up to 10m in diameter, or as small as 60cm (the dome is roughly 30cm thick, so this just produces a solid block of rock). Lasts about 20 minutes.

This Earth Dome isn't a chakra construct?

Sir Stompy · Aug 29, 2023

Cariyaga said:
This Earth Dome isn't a chakra construct?

Ah my mistake, I thought it was like MEW, worth a shot but I have low expectations. It's a trap so IDK how it's going to play in actual combat. getting low-power explosives to work would def be better.

EDIT: Also - it's a dome, they can just ghost through the cave floor to get out. I'm changing my mind back to EDs being useless.

Cariyaga · Aug 29, 2023

Sir Stompy said:
EDIT: Also - it's a dome, they can just ghost through the cave floor to get out. I'm changing my mind back to EDs being useless.

Incorrect.

Earth Dome said:
As with MEW, extends a short distance into the ground and is chakra-adhered to it.

Sir Stompy · Aug 29, 2023

Cariyaga said:
Incorrect.

Yeah no. "A short distance" doesn't mean they can't just go under it. It doesn't close. So they can always escape easily.

Cariyaga · Aug 29, 2023

Sir Stompy said:
Yeah no. "A short distance" doesn't mean they can't just go under it. It doesn't close. So they can always escape easily.

You're right about the quote I listed -- but Air Dome uses the same description text, and does have a bottom. Maybe we should just ask.

@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped Does Earth Dome have a bottom?

Sir Stompy · Aug 29, 2023

Ugh, there are so many unresolved questions about tactics now that I really don't feel like there's enough time to write a good plan.

[X] Interlude: More β Timeline

Cariyaga · Aug 29, 2023

Sir Stompy said:
Ugh, there are so many unresolved questions about tactics now that I really don't feel like there's enough time to write a good plan.

Yeah... I mean, I guess we can also just ask...

@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped Given the number of standing tactics-relevant questions, could we ask that you are generous in how you interpret the plan?

If not:
[X] Interlude: More β Timeline

_The_Bomb · Aug 29, 2023

Alright, a lot has changed with the reveal of the rolls and the current plan is not reflective of current discussion. Given that there's a few important outstanding questions and that most people won't have time to discuss and vote before voting closes, I'd say we vote for an interlude.

[X] Interlude: Chapter 506: Talking with the Boss, Part 2 of Part 1

[X] Interlude: Enma's Arrival at the Conclave
[X] Interlude: Hiruzen and Jiraya Teach the Hyūga Elders the Pink Pony no Jutsu
[X] Interlude: Hazō!β Continues on his Path to Victory
[X] Interlude: Honoka's Adoption Ceremony
[X] Interlude: Hiruzen Learns About EM Nuke, Decides Hazou is going to learn THing, and scoops Hazou off the street like a stray kitten. Hazou is just thrilled to finally get an apprenticeship.

[X] Interlude: Hazō and/or Noburi spending a few hours learning what jutsu the Tower has for them.
[X] Interlude: Hazō reading through some of the high level seals Jiraiya left him.

[X] Interlude: After invigilating Hazō's exam, Manjiro calls in his last remaining favor token. To Hazō's surprise, the student he's expected to teach…. is Manjiro?!
[X] Interlude: Hazō meets with Asuma to tell him he figured out how to decode the TH sections of Minato's notes. Hazō then demonstrates how he did it by summoning the newly-ressurected Fourth Hokage into the room.

ProperAttorney · Aug 29, 2023

[X] Interlude: Hazō!β Continues on his Path to Victory

Sir Stompy · Aug 29, 2023

[X] Interlude: Hazō!β Continues on his Path to Victory

Cariyaga · Aug 29, 2023

[X] Interlude: Chapter 506: Talking with the Boss, Part 2 of Part 1
[X] Interlude: Hazō!β Continues on his Path to Victory

faflec · Aug 29, 2023

_The_Bomb said:
Alright, now that we know physical attacks do zero damage (or one stress if we use GS) it's time to change our game plan.

This cave is a horrifically bad matchup for us, but we're Summoners. We've got half of Noburi's barrel and everyone's entire reserves to work with.

Summon Cantelope, our near-jōnin combat specialist with potent Sun Element ninjutsu (162 CP).

Summon Canon, our ninjutsu specialist (112 CP).

@faflec are there any other combat-spec dogs/pangolins with good ninjutsu that will fit in the tunnels? If so, summon those too.

Reverse our usable formation so that the fleshy humans are on there outside and the popable summons are on the inside. Put the new summons on DPS with Noburi (under strict instructions to stay at range and avoid so much as a scratch) and have Kei and Hazō join Yuno on guard duty.

Sir Stompy said:
Based on the mechanics Hazou can do either 3 stress per round if PEA works, or 2 stress if we just have GS. So he's actually the second most damaging party member we have. I think we should have him try PEA in the next combat to see if it works to damage the shades.

Instead, suggest Yuno Maneuver and apply Blocks to defend teammates and the same with Kei if low-power explosives and ninjutsu don't work.

I would also implement @_The_Bomb 's suggestions of summoning ninjutsu spec Dogs, Canun and Cantelope. We have the chakra, and they can hurt the shades. While Hazou can do max 3 and probably more like 2 stress per round.

Done. I've suggested everyone use PEA or GS as plausible, and then make them Maneuver otherwise. Also brought some ninjutsu Dogs if Hazou can.

_The_Bomb said:
What about at the start of the plan? The cavern we are in is gigantic and using heavy ordinances was literally the SOP in the initial exploration of the caverns.

We're not going to be in that cavern for much longer unless I'm totally misinterpreting what the place looks like; it might draw the shades to attack; it might also frighten Yuma and make him fuck off, depending on what he's been seeing.

Sir Stompy said:
Can we suggest "low power explosives" too? That should be fine to use in the same Zone as the rest of the team. Pangolin's Reach was tried, it's level one, useless.

Still concerned about a cave-in.

Sir Stompy said:
This doesn't fix anything, we would reemerge from the Seventh Path in the caverns - alone. Instead. throw a Goo Bomb to deter pursuit, and Tunnel Excavation up and out.

We would also need to burn a round summoning a Dog to do this. We have no extant Summons.

I'm very concerned that if we Tunneling Excavation out, then Hazou will get ambushed by shades mid-attack and be killed. He's not strong.

faflec said:
[X] Action Plan: Ghosts of Hazōmas Past
Word Count: <300

We discuss the below with the team.

Hazou's immediate thoughts:

We're not splitting the party. There's too much of a chance something will attack either weakened group.

We're not abandoning Yuma. That's not what we do.

Kei: Suggest using ranged Earth Domes/Electrocution Seals, or Pangolins Reach to keep enemies off-balance...or any other offensive ninjutsu that could be effective.

Don't pry about the Nara clan jutsu. If she thinks they'll be useful, she'll use them.

Point out the common link here: Our enemies were humans Hazou's seen die.

We're all seeing the same thing, right?

We haven't seen: Joutarou, Yami, Arikada's bodyguards, Minami Nikko, Squirrel-nin. Get everyone filled in on them: Skills, appearances, etc..

Hazou is uncertain if he should leave/reverse summon:

If Hazou continues, would the shades take on the Hyenas he's seen die? The Dragon?

Would him leaving make the shades stop coming, xor would they pick someone else to fixate on?

Get everyone's thoughts, then proceed.

The team keeps going.

Hazou considers enlisting Cantelope, Canun, or other ninjutsu-using Summons' aid.

Approach Yūma carefully, he might be confused or an enemy in disguise.

After we get him, Skywalk and Tunneling Excavation out.

When we get to the surface, call off the rescue mission. Use Earbusters if necessary to get the attention of reinforcements.

If more shades appear, and IFF it doesn't reduce our combat ability, try communicating with them - we just want to get our buddy and leave.

If it's a Seventh Path shade - Hyena, Cat, ... - Hazou reverse summons immediately. No way we're risking a Dragonshade.

If anyone thinks they can't kill shades, even with GS or PEA, they'll apply Maneuvers to support the others.

Also:
[X] Interlude: Chapter 506: Talking with the Boss, Part 2 of Part 1

[X] Interlude: Enma's Arrival at the Conclave
[X] Interlude: Hiruzen and Jiraya Teach the Hyūga Elders the Pink Pony no Jutsu
[X] Interlude: Hazō!β Continues on his Path to Victory
[X] Interlude: Honoka's Adoption Ceremony
[X] Interlude: Hiruzen Learns About EM Nuke, Decides Hazou is going to learn THing, and scoops Hazou off the street like a stray kitten. Hazou is just thrilled to finally get an apprenticeship.

[X] Interlude: Hazō and/or Noburi spending a few hours learning what jutsu the Tower has for them.
[X] Interlude: Hazō reading through some of the high level seals Jiraiya left him.

[X] Interlude: After invigilating Hazō's exam, Manjiro calls in his last remaining favor token. To Hazō's surprise, the student he's expected to teach…. is Manjiro?!
[X] Interlude: Hazō meets with Asuma to tell him he figured out how to decode the TH sections of Minato's notes. Hazō then demonstrates how he did it by summoning the newly-ressurected Fourth Hokage into the room.

_The_Bomb · Aug 29, 2023

faflec said:
Done. I've suggested everyone use PEA or GS as plausible, and then make them Maneuver otherwise. Also brought some ninjutsu Dogs if Hazou can.

We're not going to be in that cavern for much longer unless I'm totally misinterpreting what the place looks like; it might draw the shades to attack; it might also frighten Yuma and make him fuck off, depending on what he's been seeing.

Still concerned about a cave-in.

I'm very concerned that if we Tunneling Excavation out, then Hazou will get ambushed by shades mid-attack and be killed. He's not strong.

Also:
[X] Interlude: Chapter 506: Talking with the Boss, Part 2 of Part 1

[X] Interlude: Enma's Arrival at the Conclave
[X] Interlude: Hiruzen and Jiraya Teach the Hyūga Elders the Pink Pony no Jutsu
[X] Interlude: Hazō!β Continues on his Path to Victory
[X] Interlude: Honoka's Adoption Ceremony
[X] Interlude: Hiruzen Learns About EM Nuke, Decides Hazou is going to learn THing, and scoops Hazou off the street like a stray kitten. Hazou is just thrilled to finally get an apprenticeship.

[X] Interlude: Hazō and/or Noburi spending a few hours learning what jutsu the Tower has for them.
[X] Interlude: Hazō reading through some of the high level seals Jiraiya left him.

[X] Interlude: After invigilating Hazō's exam, Manjiro calls in his last remaining favor token. To Hazō's surprise, the student he's expected to teach…. is Manjiro?!
[X] Interlude: Hazō meets with Asuma to tell him he figured out how to decode the TH sections of Minato's notes. Hazō then demonstrates how he did it by summoning the newly-ressurected Fourth Hokage into the room.

You should really specify that we group up around the combat summons and guard them while they do damage. You're cutting our combat tactics in exchange for…. elaboration on why we shouldn't split the party? Seems like there's a lot of wordcount invested in the unimportant parts of the plan.

ProperAttorney · Aug 29, 2023

Reposting from Discord.

he remembered Mist's Academy instructors teaching him about chakra adhesion. About how chakra-bearing creatures resisted adhesion, which was why you could easily walk on walls, but walking on trees was harder, and it was impossible to use chakra adhesion to rip the flesh off of people while taijutsu-sparring.

Hazō had noted the streaks of blue in the walls and the gentle flux of their light. Suddenly, a connection clicked in his mind, and he saw the streaks as vessels, carrying something other than blood with the wax and wane of its light as a pulse. And if the streaks throughout the entire cave system were the vessels, then this crystal had to be the heart.

The eight foot tall figure was a crude caricature of the human form, well beyond the human limits of musculature. The entirety of its surface, its skin, was covered in streaks of blue against the greyish stone of the cavern, and its pulse was fast now, matching the accelerated pulse of the crystal heart in the center of the room.

Hold, Hazō gestured. He crept ahead, wishing that he dared risk a Jiraiya's Awesome Daybright Seal. Instead, he made do with the faint bluish light from the veins of chakra in the walls.

Compared to

The earth was red and grey like ancient flesh with arteries of green and shocking blue swirled through it

Heck, are we in for another golem fight? Fire nature instead of stone this time?

faflec · Aug 29, 2023

_The_Bomb said:
You should really specify that we group up around the combat summons and guard them while they do damage. You're cutting our combat tactics in exchange for…. elaboration on why we shouldn't split the party? Seems like there's a lot of wordcount invested in the unimportant parts of the plan.

Whoops, I think I cut that out earlier when we found out the Pangolins would be useless, and didn't add it back in. My mistake.

I still have words left so let me know if there's anything else I should unfuck in my plan.

faflec said:
[X] Action Plan: Ghosts of Hazōmas Past
Word Count: 285

We discuss the below with the team.

Hazou's immediate thoughts:

We're not splitting the party. There's too much of a chance something will attack either weakened group.

We're not abandoning Yuma. That's not what we do.

Kei: Suggest using ranged Earth Domes/Electrocution Seals, or Pangolins Reach to keep enemies off-balance...or any other offensive ninjutsu that could be effective.

Don't pry about the Nara clan jutsu. If she thinks they'll be useful, she'll use them.

Point out the common link here: Our enemies were humans Hazou's seen die.

We're all seeing the same thing, right?

We haven't seen: Joutarou, Yami, Arikada's bodyguards, Minami Nikko, Squirrel-nin. Get everyone filled in on them: Skills, appearances, etc..

Hazou is uncertain if he should leave/reverse summon:

If Hazou continues, would the shades take on the Hyenas he's seen die? The Dragon?

Would him leaving make the shades stop coming, xor would they pick someone else to fixate on?

Get everyone's thoughts, then proceed.

The team keeps going.

Hazou considers enlisting Cantelope, Canun, or other ninjutsu-using Summons' aid. We group around and protect them.

Approach Yūma carefully, he might be confused or an enemy in disguise.

After we get him, Skywalk and Tunneling Excavation out.

When we get to the surface, call off the rescue mission. Use Earbusters if necessary to get the attention of reinforcements.

If more shades appear, and IFF it doesn't reduce our combat ability, try communicating with them - we just want to get our buddy and leave.

If it's a Seventh Path shade - Hyena, Cat, ... - Hazou reverse summons immediately. No way we're risking a Dragonshade.

If anyone thinks they can't kill shades, even with GS or PEA, they'll apply Maneuvers to support the others.

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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