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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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fictionfan said:
If they are already doing that we might want to start moving on the Grimnir golem soon.
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Copying his mowhawk has nothing to do with being a slayer. yes the slayers do it but that doesn't make the mowhawk bad in any way. Grimnir did his biggest thing with a mowhawk so copying it makes sense. it's when they stop wearing armour that they need to be stopped
 
The update was fantastic, as usual.

Ultimately my thoughts on the Champion/Exemplar split is not whether the Champion should be representative of the Hearthguard or not. Because it doesn't matter.

There will always be monsters to slay and villains to defeat. As we've seen in previous updates of the Hearthguard in action, just because their focus is more on rescue and recovery (among other things) over Murder Murder Murder doesn't mean they're free from being mobbed by monsters every so often. In fact, their mission means its more likely than not.

The Commander is an administrative aide to Snorri in managing the Hearthguard, and the one who takes on the role will naturally hew towards being the Exemplar either way. Rudil wouldn't care if he got showed up (though he has his own martial pride and abilities to display, his priorities are similar to Snorri's so he doesn't really care either) and any dwarf who would care isn't suitable for the Hearthguard either, or at least not as its Commander.

So the question becomes whether you want the Champion to be an Exemplar, someone who leads by example and inspires the rest to live up to those lofty standards. Or someone who can go 'I'll handle the gribblies, the rest of you focus on saving lives', so they don't have to make the split judgement on who fights and who helps. Not to mention that Mallus rewards the people with the big stick and Snorri can specialise equipment in this regard to help them do their job, which has knock on effects in helping everyone else do their job too.

I'm happy with either result. One hews closer to Snorri's ideals and the other confronts the realities of the world kicking and screaming. Both are valid. Both would be kinda cool. But one lets the Hearthguard focus on their job in the middle of a battle, and the other lets the Hearthguard do its job better.
 
[X] Plan The Hearth Watch
-[X] [Commander Name]: Name the position of Commander for The Hearth Guard, or more accurately for Rudil, because the boy has found himself taking on many of the duties the position entails more by accident than any real desire for it.
--[X] Hearth Lord
-[X] [Champion Name]: Name the position of Champion of The Hearth Guard
--[X] Fire Keeper
-[X] [Champion Purpose]: What will the Champion's purpose be.
--[X] Exemplar: The Champion is to be the greatest example of what it means to be a Hearthwarden. One who understands intrinsically what your group entails and goes above and beyond to fulfill its stated purpose.

[X]Plan: Everything's on FIRE

And a vote for this one too since I like it.
 
Spitballing since I don't know anything about anything, but could we submerge the silverwood in Grimnir's blood? The description of the liquid makes it seem like just the sort of thing to force some form of order on the material.
 
[X] Plan The Hearth Watch
-[X] [Commander Name]: Name the position of Commander for The Hearth Guard, or more accurately for Rudil, because the boy has found himself taking on many of the duties the position entails more by accident than any real desire for it.
--[X] Hearth Lord
-[X] [Champion Name]: Name the position of Champion of The Hearth Guard
--[X] Fire Keeper
-[X] [Champion Purpose]: What will the Champion's purpose be.
--[X] Exemplar: The Champion is to be the greatest example of what it means to be a Hearthwarden. One who understands intrinsically what your group entails and goes above and beyond to fulfill its stated purpose.
 
BungieONI said:
The way I frame it is like the fight with the Greedy One. Otrek was the Commander but Snorri was the Champion.

Overall the Hearth Guard in battle is led by Snorri, and the Commander is his assistant who takes up organizational duties when he can't be there personally. Role wise they're less a leader for the entire force when that entire force is mobilized and more like an assistant or adjutant because as described by the opening conversation its getting too big to handle with finesse.

The Commander's purpose isn't to be the best hearth guard, its to be the best leader and they aren't treated as synonymous to dwarves it seems. Likely due to their right tool for the job mentality.

At the moment in my mind Snorri basically fits both roles for the Hearth Guard when he's present so the Champion and Commander I guess could be conceived of as splitting the role Snorri takes.
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Hmmm, alright, yeah, I see where you're coming from. I do still feel like it would be an issue in an actual unit of humans, generally, but our guard's comprised of a race of people who practically have adherence to duty and authority hardcoded into their dna, and on top of that they're all extremely old, extremely disciplined members of said race. So I guess issues of dissent or command schisms probably wouldn't be an issue. Concerns about authority and the like rescinded.

Though I still feel like we could use an elite fighter of some kind? Vilegrave's right, in that the Hearthguard's duties encompass a lot more then the usual personal guard unit, but doing a lot of fighting is still part of their job, so I really feel like we could use someone exceptionally good at it, that we could count on to step up if some big boss monster shows up and we're not around to deal with it, or to hold the line if things get really messy. During the campaign for example, we went rampaging deep into enemy lines, well away from our Hearthguard. They're great against most enemies as a unit, but what if the equivalent of a hero unit jumped them while we were away? I guess we could have an elite combatant even without some sort of official position, and they'd probably still do alright against a hero unit, but I'd like someone we could single out to equip with sweet monster killing weapons and hardier armour, y'know?
 
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I think that learning Eltharin may make comprehending the Master Rune of Purification easier if we can then understand the Winds and alchemical transformation better.

Also, I know this might be pretty radical, but are we rich enough to pay an elven alchemist-archmage to come and teach us directly using a translation rune? @soulcake, could we do a write in 'trade' for this? Even if we have to pay in runecraft it would be worth it...

Edit: to be clear, by runecraft I mean items with runes on, rather than the absurd suggestion of the secrets of how to make them.
 
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[X]Plan: Everything's on FIRE
-[X] [Commander Name]: Name the position of Commander for The Hearth Guard, or more accurately for Rudil, because the boy has found himself taking on many of the duties the position entails more by accident than any real desire for it.
--[X] Write-in
---[X] Watcher of the Flame
-[X] [Champion Name]: Name the position of Champion of The Hearth Guard
--[X] Keeper of the Flame
-[X] [Champion Purpose]: What will the Champion's purpose be.
--[X] Exemplar: The Champion is to be the greatest example of what it means to be a Hearthwarden. One who understands intrinsically what your group entails and goes above and beyond to fulfill its stated purpose.

Remind me if I scruffed it up
 
Alratan said:
I think that learning Eltharin may make comprehending the Master Rune of Purification easier if we can then understand the Winds and alchemical transformation better.

Also, I know this might be pretty radical, but are we rich enough to pay an elven alchemist-archmage to come and teach us directly using a translation rune? @soulcake, could we do a write in 'trade' for this? Even if we have to pay in runecraft it would be worth it...
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We're absolutely rich enough and we should definitely do that. Sounds cool
 
TheDuke said:
Hmmm, alright, yeah, I see where you're coming from. I do still feel like it would be an issue in an actual unit of humans, generally, but our guard's comprised of a race of people who practically have adherence to duty and authority hardcoded into their dna, and on top of that they're all extremely old, extremely disciplined members of said race. So I guess issues of dissent or command schisms probably wouldn't be an issue. Concerns about authority and the like rescinded.

Though I still feel like we could use an elite fighter of some kind? Vilegrave's right, in that the Hearthguard's duties encompass a lot more then the usual personal guard unit, but doing a lot of fighting is still part of their job, so I really feel like we could use someone exceptionally good at it, that we could count on to step up if some big boss monster shows up and we're not around to deal with it, or to hold the line if things get really messy. During the campaign for example, we went rampaging deep into enemy lines, well away from our Hearthguard. They're great against most enemies as a unit, but what if the equivalent of a hero unit jumped them while we were away? I guess we could have an elite combatant even without some sort of official position, and they'd probably still do alright against a hero unit, but I'd like someone we could single out to deck out in sweet monster killing weapons and hardier armour, y'know?
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Too be fair, the Champion, regardless of which we pick is going to need a Weapon. And given the paradigm of weapon runes, they generally hew towards the Extremely Killy over anything that is more Utility.

But with that said, we did just get three Grimnir boys kicking around, and they'll be equipped up to the snuff of the rest of the Hearth Guard. I guess if we wanted we could spend Adamant on specifically kitting out a handful of carefully chosen folks with Adamant weapons, which I think would be a pretty big deal.
 
Alratan said:
I think that learning Eltharin may make comprehending the Master Rune of Purification easier if we can then understand the Winds and alchemical transformation better.

Also, I know this might be pretty radical, but are we rich enough to pay an elven alchemist-archmage to come and teach us directly using a translation rune? @soulcake, could we do a write in 'trade' for this? Even if we have to pay in runecraft it would be worth it...
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I ain't trading runes for it that's for damn sure.

Especially when we don't need too. Let's at least wait until we see what the legwork Soul has in mind before we just casually fling ourselves off into the abyss?
 
Alratan said:
I think that learning Eltharin may make comprehending the Master Rune of Purification easier if we can then understand the Winds and alchemical transformation better.

Also, I know this might be pretty radical, but are we rich enough to pay an elven alchemist-archmage to come and teach us directly using a translation rune? @soulcake, could we do a write in 'trade' for this? Even if we have to pay in runecraft it would be worth it...
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like that wont fuck up ever, sure lets break one of our cults most important rule
 
I just...we have in quest examples of binding agreements on waiting *centuries* to share runes with **fellow dawi** why would we trade them with Elves that we've barely known for at most 1-2 centuries in quest and that are much less close to us than in canon due to the Brana who arguably merit it better?

Trading it to the Elves at this stage would be legitimate *breaking Thugni's laws.*
 
BungieONI said:
But with that said, we did just get three Grimnir boys kicking around, and they'll be equipped up to the snuff of the rest of the Hearth Guard. I guess if we wanted we could spend Adamant on specifically kitting out a handful of carefully chosen folks with Adamant weapons, which I think would be a pretty big deal.
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Having a well, hit squad of ass-kickers could well be a pretty useful thing to have on hand during an emergency.

BungieONI said:
I ain't trading runes for it that's for damn sure.

Especially when we don't need too. Let's at least wait until we see what the legwork Soul has in mind before we just casually fling ourselves off into the abyss?
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endless void said:
like that wont fuck up ever, sure lets break one of our cults most important rule
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We trade runecraft literally all the time. What do you think our commissions are? There's no restriction on selling our works.

The precedent of giving runecraft to other species was set by the Ancestor Gods when they gave the torc to the King of the Sky. I'd be more than happy to give an elven archmage a ring or crown of translation in return for an education.
 
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Alratan said:
We trade runecraft literally all the time. What do you think our commissions are?

The precedent of giving runecraft to other species was set by the Ancestor Gods when they gave the torc to the King of the Sky. I'd be more than happy to give an elven archmage a ring or crown of translation in return for an education.
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If it's just an item, then fine, maybe. E: and it occurs to me that elves might be able to reverse engineer it because they can see what the winds are doing in a Runed item so I'm extremely leery about giving it to a freaking archmage.

The way you were talking about trading runes though has the kind of optics that get us pulled up at the Conclave for stupidity.

Overall though I don't see much point in the endeavor, especially when we don't even know what Soulcake has in mind for the legwork! It's wild speculation based on nothing.
 
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BungieONI said:
The way you were talking about trading runes though has the kind of optics that get us pulled up at the Conclave for stupidity.
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It really doesn't, and I'd ask you to explain your thought process for that because there's nothing regarding the concept that goes against the tennants of runecraft, trading a runed item is not the kind of thing that would ever get brought up at a conclave unless we were to be trading with the Dawi-zharr.

Alratan doesn't mean trading how to make runes.
 
[X] Plan The Hearth Watch
-[X] [Commander Name]: Name the position of Commander for The Hearth Guard, or more accurately for Rudil, because the boy has found himself taking on many of the duties the position entails more by accident than any real desire for it.
--[X] Hearth Lord
-[X] [Champion Name]: Name the position of Champion of The Hearth Guard
--[X] Fire Keeper
-[X] [Champion Purpose]: What will the Champion's purpose be.
--[X] Exemplar: The Champion is to be the greatest example of what it means to be a Hearthwarden. One who understands intrinsically what your group entails and goes above and beyond to fulfill its stated purpose.
 
BungieONI said:
If it's just an item, then fine, maybe. E: and it occurs to me that elves might be able to reverse engineer it because they can see what the winds are doing in a Runed item so I'm extremely leery about giving it to a freaking archmage.

The way you were talking about trading runes though has the kind of optics that get us pulled up at the Conclave for stupidity.

Overall though I don't see much point in the endeavor, especially when we don't even know what Soulcake has in mind for the legwork! It's wild speculation based on nothing.
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After several thousand years in canon they had no such luck.

The Brana can also see the Winds, and no one has ever raised this as a possible concern, so I'm very highly sceptical that this is a good faith objection.

Snorri said in a prior update that he might need to pay an elf to teach him Eltharin. Do you expect that just to happen in the background, when we have a write-in section for when we want to pay other people to do things for Snorri?
 
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