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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Radvic said:
The main problem I have with that is that it kind of defeats the point of a timeskip, and the major - minor action thing is already a compromise from what the QMs are currently doing. By my understanding the point of the timeskip is to get us past the time with minimal fuss while still doing what the thread wants. The way this vote works, I think it'll be either 1 or 2 full updates before we finish the timeskip and wind up at the tournament. I suspect that using a month-long time skip as I proposed would extend this to 2 to 4 updates. By making it a by-week timeskip, that would make it at least 4 full updates, probably more. Effectively, at that point, in my mind there's little difference between using the structure provided by the major-minor actions and just keeping plans as they have existed (Aside from reducing barriers to entry for voting anyways).

Maybe make it a 2 week period, so there's one set point where we can switch stuff up if we wanted?

I do think that this sort of format could be good for after the Chunnin exams -- basically have a "Strategic Vote" in which Hazou lays down his priorities for the next month/week/year/arbitrary time period, and then updates have Hazou doing those things and we get to vote on the interactive bits as we normally do, with plans and stuff. So, for example, have the option to take a B-rank mission as a major action, then have votes along the way of the B-rank mission as we determine how Hazou and team accomplishes it.
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Good points.

Okay, I can get behind the timeskip thing as is with the ranked voting. Even without, that should be ok.Everyone should be satisfied.

My only remaining concern is that we would be voting a training plan in by Wednesday. This seems a bit premature to me, since I would expect the thread to try to tailor any additional training we do (besides stat increases) to any opposition we may be facing.

And we dont currently have the pool of tournament contestants.

While we can likely guess, I would think we would wanna know for sure. Especially since @Adept_Woodwright and @Noumero seem fairly convinced (If im reading their calcs right) that Team Kurenai is not necessarily even guaranteed to make it to the finals
 
@eaglejarl Instead of paren, use brackets. It's faster to type than having to shift-9 or shift-0.

[X][Mist] Go
[Train] Whatever Jiriaya et al Deemed Important
[Activity] Plan Socialization and Sealing Week One


Plan Socialization and Sealing Week One
  • Start Weekly Tactics Discussion Group (unless one already exists)
    • Potentially do a post-mortem on Chūnin Exam
    • Meet at a teahouse or a restaurant of one choosing
    • Open invitation
  • Research light strobe seal
    • Baby steps. Little brighter. Blink slowly.
    • Use library (if applicable). Consult.
 
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[X][Mist] Go



We are not getting this far only to trip at the finish line over some thread in-joke Ami bullshit
 
MMKII said:
@eaglejarl @OliWhail @Velorien


Do you guys mind technique/seal proposals? Conditional on us writing up the fluff and with the understanding all is up to QM approval, of course.

Got some swag ideas for useful but non OP jutsu/seals we can grab over the break.
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They usually don't mind. I do think the hivemind should try to put new jutsu ideas through the wringer before asking the QMs to look at it.
 
We absolutely must deal with the breakup. We are never going to get a better opportunity to handle this.

Traiden said:
Akane has made Hazou aware of a bad habit, and it falls to Hazou to work hard and make up for this character flaw. The thing pointed out effects more than just Akane, it is how a lot of people view Hazou as a person. It should be worked on now. The best time to plant a tree is thirty years ago, the second best time is now.
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Immortal Lurker said:
Nope. Thirty years ago would have been great, but today there are landmines scattered about the planting area. They will be gone in two days. How badly do you want that tree?

Yes, the landmines are only there because we didn't plant the tree (I'm losing control of this metaphor), but they are still there, and they will go away if we wait two days.
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The two days have passed. The landmines are gone. Time to plant that tree.
 
MMKII said:
Especially since @Adept_Woodwright and @Noumero seem fairly convinced (If im reading their calcs right) that Team Kurenai is not necessarily even guaranteed to make it to the finals
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Yes. A summary:

Top six tournament spots are reserved for ISC and Team Uplift respectively: we gained no less than 400 points over everyone, neatly nullifying all advantages non-ISC top-scorers got after the Fourth Event (we lost 200 points during it, top-scorers gained ~200, now they lost relative 400+).

ISC remained an unharmed top-scorer, and got a +60 points advantage over us.

Then there's three other tiers:
1. Six squads who scored between +35 and -40 points for this event. (Uplift's R1 teammates, and ISC's R1/R2 teammates.)
2. Two squads who scored -235 points. (Uplift's R2 teammates.)
3. Fourteen squads who scored between -555 and -795. (Everyone, well, else.)​

Accounting for Team Kurenai: By my calculations, they lost 465 points at best1​ and 630 points at worst2​. This means they have no less than ten squads far above them: two squads with 230 points advantage, six squads with 425+ points advantage, and two squads with fuck-you points advantage. Disregarding us and the two second-tier squads, and assuming that half the ninja remaining drop out, Team Kurenai still has nine contestants above them. Since the people who won't drop out likely had fine scores prior to the Fifth Event (e. g., 200 points to contrast Kurenai's max 600)...

I think Team Kurenai still could get into the tournament. Everything is possible in theory.

Edit: I will miss this statistics stuff I got to do these Exams.

1. -300 points for R1. R2: were paired with R1 teammates of ISC: 3 x -55 = -165. Sum up.
2. -300 points for R1. R2: weren't paired with R1 teammates of ISC: 6 x -55 = -330. Sum up.
 
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[X][Mist] Stay

I want our guys to make peace with their ex-clans and former friends/acquaintances. This isn't about Ami and I am getting the impression that people think that she would be the only reason people would vote for the 'Stay' option.
 
Noumero said:
Yes. A summary:

Top six tournament spots are reserved for ISC and Team Uplift respectively: we gained no less than 400 points over everyone, neatly nullifying all advantages non-ISC top-scorers got after the Fourth Event (we lost 200 points during it, top-scorers gained ~200, now they lost 400+).

ISC remained an unharmed top-scorer, and got a +60 points advantage over us.

Then there's three other tiers:
1. Six squads who scored between +35 and -40 points for this event. (Uplift's R1 teammates, and ISC's R1/R2 teammates.)
2. Two squads who scored -235 points. (Uplift's R2 teammates.)
3. Fourteen squads who scored between -555 and -795. (Everyone, well, else.)​

Accounting for Team Kurenai: By my calculations, they lost 465 points at best1​ and 630 points at worst2​. This means they have no less than ten squads far above them: two squads with 230 points advantage, six squads with 425+ points advantage, and two squads with fuck-you points advantage. Disregarding us and the two second-tier squads, and assuming that half the ninja remaining drop out, Team Kurenai still has nine contestants above them. Since the people who don't drop out likely had fine scores prior to the Fifth Event (e. g., 200 to contrast Kuernai's max 600)...

I think Team Kurenai still could still get into the tournament. Everything is possible in theory.

1. -300 points for R1. R2: were paired with R1 teammates of ISC: 3 x -55 = -165. Sum up.
2. -300 points for R1. R2: weren't paired with R1 teammates of ISC: 6 x -55 = -330. Sum up.
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This is also not counting any Chekhovs Gun points from the word halves. Which we could theoretically spread to other teams to deny Team K a spot.

On the other hand: Jiraiya may want a Leaf Dominated tournament. This increases his political pull, since it makes Leaf look fucking great on his watch.

Also, any remaining Hokage potential Hiashi could have retained after the Neji embarassment would be thrown out the window if we beat his clan heir into the ground on the international stage.

This seems optimal long term. Probably the goal he has in mind.
 
Enjou said:
I would probably refrain from using something like that publicly, in front of all the Kages, which would be a simple solution to dealing with pretty much all Nara.
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Except it's so simple its pretty obvious to anyone looking for a counter? Like seriously, light to prevent shadows. To be honest I suspect the Nara have a counter pre-planned for that - there's different shades of shadows. For example, having an extremely bright light seal tethered to his back effectively puts EVERYTHING in front of him in shadow unless our light seals are brighter.

A better counter imo would be hidden clones that can dive in with flashbang seals. If we ever get trapped have one tenporarily break contact while we dive into the ground then reassess strategy where shadows can't reach us.

!!! Don't we need to pop all our traps and sets when we leave? Otherwise we're letting people scavenge the goo seals and whatnot.
 
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Tua said:
[X][Mist] Stay

I want our guys to make peace with their ex-clans and former friends/acquaintances. This isn't about Ami and I am getting the impression that people think that she would be the only reason people would vote for the 'Stay' option.
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Addressing this:

Sorry, I dont see this as a viable reason to stay for a *week*

The other two can get this done while Hazou is chilling with Hana.

The QMs will probably allow us to slide a short convo with Team Downfall and maybe the Yakuza(thanks for the help, ever in our thoughts, etc.) in before we leave as well.
 
MMKII said:
This is also not counting any Chekhovs Gun points from the word halves. Which we could theoretically spread to other teams to deny Team K a spot.

On the other hand: Jiraiya may want a Leaf Dominated tournament. This increases his political pull, since it makes Leaf look fucking great on his watch.

Also, any remaining Hokage potential Hiashi could have retained after the Neji embarassment would be thrown out the window if we beat his clan heir into the ground on the international stage.
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Good point. Hm.

I think we should give two-thirds of our word-halves to Team Kurenai to get them into the tournament. It's a win-win for everyone involved in all realistic worlds:
  • The attempt makes us look good: Improves our relations with Team Kurenai itself, shows that we in particular and our clan as a whole still values cooperation.
  • If they make it into the tournament: Everyone who matters knows that it was done solely because of our actions. The Hyuuga don't look good: they're now in debt to us. Leaf dominates the tournament.
  • If they don't make it: Oh well, nothing lost.
Can we vote for that? Or ask Jiraiya's opinion, then do as he says?

Edit: Also:
  • If they make it and we beat them: Absolute political domination.
  • If they make it and beat us: Acceptable. (And implausible.)
 
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Noumero said:
Good point. Hm.

I think we should give two-thirds of our word-halves to Team Kurenai to get them into the tournament. It's a win-win for everyone involved in all realistic worlds:
  • The attempt makes us look good: Improves our relations with Team Kurenai itself, shows that we in particular and our clan as a whole still values cooperation.
  • If they make it into the tournament: Everyone who matters knows that it was done solely because of our actions. The Hyuuga don't look good: they're now in debt to us. Leaf dominates the tournament.
  • If they don't make it: Oh well, nothing lost.
Can we vote for that? Or ask Jiraiya's opinion, then do as he says?
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You want to do this publically?

Evil! I approve.
 
MMKII said:
You want to do this publically?

Evil! I approve.
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Not necessarily. But we'll tell Jiraiya, the Kages will likely know, and Team Kurenai will have to include it into their inevitable reports to their clans. As such: everyone who matters will know.

Doing it publicly would cost us some friendship points with Team Kurenai and their clans, since it will be a clear humiliation play. But we could do it that way, I suppose.
 
Friends I come before you with a simple proposal. As you know I am a proponent of trying to obtain Summon Scrolls for every member of Clan Goketsu. My original idea of trying to find them during the break was met with very vocal criticism. Instead of trying to ram through my ambition I have narrowed my scope. I propose that during the month long break we begin laying the ground work to asses the viability of obtaining 2 or more scrolls. I am not asking that this be the primary focus of the upcoming month. Simply hoping to get us to invest a mere 30 hours of Hazō, Noburi and Kei's time in the coming month. A mere hour a day on average from each of them.

I see several potential avenues that we could explore that would help further this goal. Having Kei investigate potential scrolls that the pangolins know about. Seeing if she can convince the pangolins to throwing there support into having a friendly Condor Summoner. Having Noburi investigate the Hydra Medical Facility. Which is the last known location of the Capybara scroll. Perhaps he could ask our dear friend Kabuto if he knows anything about the group. Have Hazō attempt to deepen the bond we share with the Yakuza. Try to find any information they might have about errant scrolls or assets they might have that we could acquire.

While this limited information gathering is going on I would like to help assure that the quest gets approved if we find out it is a viable option. To help achieve that first I would like to make sure to train with both Kakashi and Gai. As S-rank senior Jounin in Leaf they would be ideal to lead the mission. So doing our best to impress them would pay huge benefits to this quest and our goals at large.

At the same time I would like to help further along the rumors that Team Uplift are The Second Sannin. Hiring bards to spread our legend. Inserting rumors into the gossip network. Perhaps even commissioning a book to follow in our clan leaders legacy. All of this is to increase the parallels between us and the original Sannin. Who where also known for the fact that they had Summons at there disposal

Of course we will ask Jiraiya if any scrolls he is aware of that we might acquire. Obviously he will have final say so on the viability of our quest

Ultimately this is a long term goal that can not be completed in a single vote. I have already achieved some degree of support for initiative. Hopefully I can convince the hivemind at large to help achieve this goal

Finally I would like to reinforce the fact that I want this to be strictly limited to information gathering at this time. If it ever appears that the quest is to dangerous or the political situation changes where attempting is not viable I fully understand if people wish to stop.

However I believe that this small investment in our time could potentially pay of with huge benefits. Thank you in advance for any consideration you put towards this idea. I look forward to the upcoming discussion
 
Noumero said:
Not necessarily. But we'll tell Jiraiya, the Kages will likely know, and Team Kurenai will have to include it into their inevitable reports to their clans. As such: everyone who matters will know.

Doing it publicly would cost us some friendship points with Team Kurenai and their clans, since it will be a clear humiliation play. But we could do it that way, I suppose.
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1) Do it in front of STL
- Balances the awkwardness of her speech at Event 4 's end
- Write "We DO like you guys, you know. Friends?" on the back of their personal word halves.

2) DO NOT, ABSOLUTELY DO NOT: give them a majority of the word halves. If we give them 2/3 they could split it to try to fuck us over (these are of unknown points value, no chances!)

Give them 1/4- 1/3? The lower bound ensures there is no possible way they could possibly do something to outmaneuver us regardless of each ones value. (heaping it all onto one person or something).

Perhaps this is pessimistic. Whatdya think?
 
With regards to Team Kurenia and if we wish to have them make the tourney I believe the correct option is to simply follow Jiraiya's advice. Our understanding of the political situation is limited. So whatever decision we would be threatened by unforeseen pitfalls that Jiraiya would be aware of. We should consult with him to decide what we should do with the word halfs
 
Oneiros said:
With regards to Team Kurenia and if we wish to have them make the tourney I believe the correct option is to simply follow Jiraiya's advice. Our understanding of the political situation is limited. So whatever decision we would be threatened by unforeseen pitfalls that Jiraiya would be aware of. We should consult with him to decide what we should do with the word halfs
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Any plan I will put forth or will support that does stuff like this on the day we have *should include*:

"Immediately check with Jiraiya on his approval of the following ASAP:"

As one of the first bullet points
 
MMKII said:
Sorry, I dont see this as a viable reason to stay for a *week*
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Doesn't have to be a week; in fact, nowhere did I say we should stay a week - that is merely the maximum allowed time EJ gave us IIRC. If we can't get those clan meetings/dinners done within the first 1-2 days then it would seem obvious that our clans have no interest in interacting with us and we should leave.
 
Oneiros said:
Friends I come before you with a simple proposal. As you know I am a proponent of trying to obtain Summon Scrolls for every member of Clan Goketsu. My original idea of trying to find them during the break was met with very vocal criticism. Instead of trying to ram through my ambition I have narrowed my scope. I propose that during the month long break we begin laying the ground work to asses the viability of obtaining 2 or more scrolls. I am not asking that this be the primary focus of the upcoming month. Simply hoping to get us to invest a mere 30 hours of Hazō, Noburi and Kei's time in the coming month. A mere hour a day on average from each of them.

I see several potential avenues that we could explore that would help further this goal. Having Kei investigate potential scrolls that the pangolins know about. Seeing if she can convince the pangolins to throwing there support into having a friendly Condor Summoner. Having Noburi investigate the Hydra Medical Facility. Which is the last known location of the Capybara scroll. Perhaps he could ask our dear friend Kabuto if he knows anything about the group. Have Hazō attempt to deepen the bond we share with the Yakuza. Try to find any information they might have about errant scrolls or assets they might have that we could acquire.

While this limited information gathering is going on I would like to help assure that the quest gets approved if we find out it is a viable option. To help achieve that first I would like to make sure to train with both Kakashi and Gai. As S-rank senior Jounin in Leaf they would be ideal to lead the mission. So doing our best to impress them would pay huge benefits to this quest and our goals at large.

At the same time I would like to help further along the rumors that Team Uplift are The Second Sannin. Hiring bards to spread our legend. Inserting rumors into the gossip network. Perhaps even commissioning a book to follow in our clan leaders legacy. All of this is to increase the parallels between us and the original Sannin. Who where also known for the fact that they had Summons at there disposal

Of course we will ask Jiraiya if any scrolls he is aware of that we might acquire. Obviously he will have final say so on the viability of our quest

Ultimately this is a long term goal that can not be completed in a single vote. I have already achieved some degree of support for initiative. Hopefully I can convince the hivemind at large to help achieve this goal

Finally I would like to reinforce the fact that I want this to be strictly limited to information gathering at this time. If it ever appears that the quest is to dangerous or the political situation changes where attempting is not viable I fully understand if people wish to stop.

However I believe that this small investment in our time could potentially pay of with huge benefits. Thank you in advance for any consideration you put towards this idea. I look forward to the upcoming discussion
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I support this, provisional that we can create a reasonably solid plan and have a viable window of opportunity. We can create a solid plan even without knowing whether the window of opportunity exists, to some extent, but I think the most important thing to nail down is what constitutes a 'viable window of opportunity'.

Of course, some things completely disrupt any plans we might make, like if Akatsuki finally makes their play. Other things, like a hypothetical WW4, may shatter our peacetime-assumed plan structure but open up new opportunities as we get the chance to face off against enemy summoners. There is also the question of how much intel we need before we can proceed, and if there is a way to get that intel. If we don't know whether a given situation permits our plans or not we will end up mired in uncertainty, so we should devote some effort into brainstorming what makes or breaks this initiative.
 
Oneiros said:
Friends I come before you with a simple proposal. As you know I am a proponent of trying to obtain Summon Scrolls for every member of Clan Goketsu. My original idea of trying to find them during the break was met with very vocal criticism. Instead of trying to ram through my ambition I have narrowed my scope. I propose that during the month long break we begin laying the ground work to asses the viability of obtaining 2 or more scrolls. I am not asking that this be the primary focus of the upcoming month. Simply hoping to get us to invest a mere 30 hours of Hazō, Noburi and Kei's time in the coming month. A mere hour a day on average from each of them.

I see several potential avenues that we could explore that would help further this goal. Having Kei investigate potential scrolls that the pangolins know about. Seeing if she can convince the pangolins to throwing there support into having a friendly Condor Summoner. Having Noburi investigate the Hydra Medical Facility. Which is the last known location of the Capybara scroll. Perhaps he could ask our dear friend Kabuto if he knows anything about the group. Have Hazō attempt to deepen the bond we share with the Yakuza. Try to find any information they might have about errant scrolls or assets they might have that we could acquire.

While this limited information gathering is going on I would like to help assure that the quest gets approved if we find out it is a viable option. To help achieve that first I would like to make sure to train with both Kakashi and Gai. As S-rank senior Jounin in Leaf they would be ideal to lead the mission. So doing our best to impress them would pay huge benefits to this quest and our goals at large.

At the same time I would like to help further along the rumors that Team Uplift are The Second Sannin. Hiring bards to spread our legend. Inserting rumors into the gossip network. Perhaps even commissioning a book to follow in our clan leaders legacy. All of this is to increase the parallels between us and the original Sannin. Who where also known for the fact that they had Summons at there disposal

Of course we will ask Jiraiya if any scrolls he is aware of that we might acquire. Obviously he will have final say so on the viability of our quest

Ultimately this is a long term goal that can not be completed in a single vote. I have already achieved some degree of support for initiative. Hopefully I can convince the hivemind at large to help achieve this goal

Finally I would like to reinforce the fact that I want this to be strictly limited to information gathering at this time. If it ever appears that the quest is to dangerous or the political situation changes where attempting is not viable I fully understand if people wish to stop.

However I believe that this small investment in our time could potentially pay of with huge benefits. Thank you in advance for any consideration you put towards this idea. I look forward to the upcoming discussion
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Having read over the proposal I am tentatively in agreement. I do think that some changes can be made regarding how we investigate, and I feel that the Sannin legend would best we started after the tournament once we give a good showing… But it seems good.

I'm writing on my phone right now so will give a more detailed analysis later.
 
Tua said:
Doesn't have to be a week; in fact, nowhere did I say we should stay a week - that is merely the maximum allowed time EJ gave us IIRC. If we can't get those clan meetings/dinners done within the first 1-2 days then it would seem obvious that our clans have no interest in interacting with us and we should leave.
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Well I also would object to arranging formal dinners. This is a waste of time as far as I can see since anything we need to say to them can likely be done in a short few hour visit.

The Kurosawa clan elders literally despise us. After Rens machinations, at best they will tolerate us.

Keiko is likely still reaching some sort of closure with the Ami thing. I do not want to open this can of worms back up purposefully.

If Noburi wants he can go hang with his family for a few hours.


I do not think this is a situation where everyone is going to pull an about face and be apologetic about their past interactions with us. I dont think stomping Event 5 is going to change their opinions overnight. I believe anything longer than a few hours of interaction is going to be drastically less effective for the time expenditure.

Pop in, chit chat for a few hours. Message: "We didnt forget about you guys. We are open to deals and communication. "

This serves our purposes fine. And we do not pressure Keiko or Noburi to do this if they dont want to. Hazou *despises* the majority of his clan, and the feeling is mostly mutual. I would rather him spend any time that would have been proportioned to this with Hana (regardless of how much time that is anyway).


I think us spending more than a few hours in the hopes of super successful politicking with past clans is wishful thinking. We can always spend a day or two after the finals doing this unless the world is in danger of exploding or something.
 
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