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Training Eike in Windsight would be great if it were possible(it lines up with her interests well and is just a fantastically versatile skill, there's no way she won't get good use out of it regardless of what path she chooses), but I don't think it is.

When I asked Boney if we could take a WEBMAT action with Johann to train Eike in Windsight together, Boney said that Johann has totally different Windsight than Eike.

If having at least somewhat similar Windsight is necessary to train someone in it, I don't think we can train Eike in Windsight. I don't think our Windsight is any more similar to Eike's than Johann's is.

EDIT: For reference:
- After Eike becomes our apprentice, would it be possible to do a WEBMAT action with Johann to train Eike's Windsight?

Their Windsights are completely different. Johann's is magnetoreceptive, Eike's is intuitive.
Boney didn't technically say that we can't train Eike in Windsight, so perhaps I might be missing some key distinction that would enable us to train her in spite of our Windsights being very different. I can't imagine what, though.
 
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Found a citation relevant to this argument.

There theoretically could be runes on an entire gyrocopter the same way there are runes for an entire stone thrower, but it would require runes built specifically for the gyrocopter. Currently the only runes that could be applied to gyrocopters are ones on specific parts, which would only prevent enchantment of those parts.
 
I'm entirely sure they will for AV and I'm entirely sure they can and the uncertainty is by how much the gyrocopters can be improved via runesmithing.
I also found an older citation that you might like rather less.

8) Could we sit down with an engineer and/or Runesmiths and look at what kind of new possibility magic/runes bring to them? Like, an MR of Disguise (which is an engineering rune), or an engine with Aqshy enchantments as to need almost no fuel, or could run off that fire spell that makes something into whisky so would just need water to refuel, or a cargo harness to make things put on it super light. That kind of thing.
8. Engineer, yes. Runesmith, extremely no.
In the Army Book, Engineering Runes are limited to cannons, grudge throwers, bolt throwers, organ guns, and flame cannons, and they've only recently started allowing those last two. Runesmiths are conservative even by Dwarf standards. Thorek has been testing a single rune longer than Gyrocopters have existed.
This was a week after we introduced the Vitae to Thorek and he figured out it can charge Ancestor Runes.
 
I also found an older citation that you might like rather less.
snip heartbreaking post
This was a week after we introduced the Vitae to Thorek and he figured out it can charge Ancestor Runes.
You are right. I like that rather less. :'(
*grasps at straws*: Uh. maybe something something.... uh..

gah. I'm too drunk and tired. *fails to grasp straws*.
(Also, thank you for the citation, and extra thank you for pointing out it was after Thorek investigated AV).

Reading those posts, I feel like I read them before, but I still have had "runes might be worth considering for this when compared to enchanting" for a long while. So I dunno what's going on there.

(Just for future theory crafting; it might be possible to make a small enchanted boiler that can be 'plugged in' into a modified gyrocarrige boiler/engine somehow, that allows for the creation of heat, while still allowing any runes on the main device, if they somehow turn out to be useful.)

Even if we don't use runes, that might be preferable regardless, so as to have the enchantment only exist as part of, and act on something that the engine does not need in order to run.
 
Runes are for tried and true equipment, not machines that are barely two centuries old. If you want a quick and dirty yet efficient and powerful solution, you get human Wizards. The Colleges have existed for about as long as Gyrocopters and they've advanced their understanding by an astonishing amount since then. They don't care about Gyros being "new" and they're not limited by the same metrics.
 
You are right. I like that rather less. :'(
*grasps at straws*: Uh. maybe something something.... uh..

gah. I'm too drunk and tired. *fails to grasp straws*.
(Also, thank you for the citation, and extra thank you for pointing out it was after Thorek investigated AV).

Reading those posts, I feel like I read them before, but I still have had "runes might be worth considering for this when compared to enchanting" for a long while. So I dunno what's going on there.

(Just for future theory crafting; it might be possible to make a small enchanted boiler that can be 'plugged in' into a modified gyrocarrige boiler/engine somehow, that allows for the creation of heat, while still allowing any runes on the main device, if they somehow turn out to be useful.)

Even if we don't use runes, that might be preferable regardless, so as to have the enchantment only exist as part of, and act on something that the engine does not need in order to run.
*Lights the Vlag shaped Beacon*


Got some straws for ya, fresh off the bonfire. Granted the answer might still be no, or 'we would love to do this for our saviour, but we lack the expertise to have any realistic chance of it working' but there's no reason to give up all hope just yet.

*holds the Dum collaboration card in reserve in case that isn't enough rekindled hope.*
 
*Lights the Vlag shaped Beacon*


Got some straws for ya, fresh off the bonfire. Granted the answer might still be no, or 'we would love to do this for our saviour, but we lack the expertise to have any realistic chance of it working' but there's no reason to give up all hope just yet.

*holds the Dum collaboration card in reserve in case that isn't enough rekindled hope.*

My first thought was "Vlag probably doesn't even know what an engineering rune is" but then I remembered they were only lost 200 years ago, and when we explored the hold we found recent evidence of gunpowder weaponry, so I wonder if they went super radical and have developed a bunch of minor engineering runes for those weapons that the rest of the Karaz Ankor won't have even thought of. Vlag runes are probably not as strong as normal runes, but they are reproducible and tested against a 200 year siege against demons, so they won't be completely useless.
 
My first thought was "Vlag probably doesn't even know what an engineering rune is" but then I remembered they were only lost 200 years ago, and when we explored the hold we found recent evidence of gunpowder weaponry, so I wonder if they went super radical and have developed a bunch of minor engineering runes for those weapons that the rest of the Karaz Ankor won't have even thought of. Vlag runes are probably not as strong as normal runes, but they are reproducible and tested against a 200 year siege against demons, so they won't be completely useless.
It's a question of if they have Runes beyond the most basic options. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have engineering runes of any kind.

We don't really have an idea of what the Vlag Runepokers are capable of, beyond "on an individual level, dramatically less than a Runesmith".

(Though I expect every single piece of armor the Vlagians have has got a Rune of Stone or 3 on it)
 
-[] [Library] Scribes
We absolutely want bookmining before scribes. The purpose of scribes is to get us books, but bookmining gets us 1-2 great libraries worth of books instantly. Before all other considerations like safety, it just doesn't make sense to go for the scribes first.

[ ] [LIBRARY] Colleges of Magic: Apparitions, Powerstones, Aethyr, Wild Magic
Total value here is 800gc and 16CF (since we already have Regular+Extensive for two of these topics). Two topics for Mathilde's personal research, two topics for the Waystone project.
On top of the College purchases, I want to max out Hoeth and Verena books because of the library science Boney says they have. Not only is it an obviously great purchase for our library in general, it's also very important because bookmining'll see us with 1-2 great libraries worth of books and BOY would it be good to have reference material on hand to properly deal with it all. It'll cost 450 GC out of pocket but given our general library ambitions and the extreme bibliothecographic demands of bookmining specifically, it's very much worth it.

Plus, of course, it'd help us with dealing with members of those two cults. That's pretty great for getting Verenan libraries on board or dealing with Hoethian major houses.

Other than that, I think we should consider buying books on Hoeth for their insight on libraries - Verena too, maybe, but books on Hoeth we can get up to Esoteric.
Definitely Verena too. We can get Extensive for her not only from the Empire but also Bretonnia, for a total of +4 in addition to Hoeth's +5. It's a sizeable benefit in terms of numeric value, and of course invaluable from a narrative sense when it comes to libraries. Verenans have the most and biggest libraries of all human institutions on the continent.
 
It's a question of if they have Runes beyond the most basic options. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have engineering runes of any kind.

We don't really have an idea of what the Vlag Runepokers are capable of, beyond "on an individual level, dramatically less than a Runesmith".

(Though I expect every single piece of armor the Vlagians have has got a Rune of Stone or 3 on it)

Probably something like they've only got access to the most basic of runes/techniques, but they've gotten good at maximising them and finding innovative uses for them, I'd guess?
 
We absolutely want bookmining before scribes. The purpose of scribes is to get us books, but bookmining gets us 1-2 great libraries worth of books instantly. Before all other considerations like safety, it just doesn't make sense to go for the scribes first.
I mean, it could. It could also just get us a bunch of waterlogged books that have ceased to have value.

The payout isn't guaranteed, it's just got enough potential to encourage rolling the dice.
 
I mean, it could. It could also just get us a bunch of waterlogged books that have ceased to have value.

The payout isn't guaranteed, it's just got enough potential to encourage rolling the dice.
The potential of waterlogged books is why I said 1-2 great libraries instead of 2. The Drakenhof Library might not've survived the elements, but the Black Library underneath it certainly would've.

EDIT: Even if that was somehow destroyed too, if we don't have another library to copy, the scribes have no purpose, so either way it doesn't make sense.
 
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The potential of waterlogged books is why I said 1-2 great libraries instead of 2. The Drakenhof Library might not've survived the elements, but the Black Library underneath it certainly would've.

EDIT: Even if that was somehow destroyed too, if we don't have any other library to copy, the scribes have no purpose, so either way it doesn't make sense.
I want scribes soon because then we can use the Deed to copy the University of Nuln, but yeah, I think I'm back on board with bookmining this next turn.
 
Training Eike in Windsight would be great if it were possible(it lines up with her interests well and is just a fantastically versatile skill, there's no way she won't get good use out of it regardless of what path she chooses), but I don't think it is.

When I asked Boney if we could take a WEBMAT action with Johann to train Eike in Windsight together, Boney said that Johann has totally different Windsight than Eike.

If having at least somewhat similar Windsight is necessary to train someone in it, I don't think we can train Eike in Windsight. I don't think our Windsight is any more similar to Eike's than Johann's is.

EDIT: For reference:



Boney didn't technically say that we can't train Eike in Windsight, so perhaps I might be missing some key distinction that would enable us to train her in spite of our Windsights being very different. I can't imagine what, though.

We actually trained Johann in Windsense:

To call Johann skeptical about improving his Windsight would be an understatement, as it apparently sounds to him like some of the more esoteric parts of the arts of the Pick of Grungni that he tried and failed to reach an understanding of. But either out of respect for you or gratitude for the company, he barely puts up a fight and allows you to drag him into the White Tower, and you don't protest at the pack following him - both because you doubt you'd be able to separate them without a lot of trouble, and because they'd work quite nicely as subjects for observation.

Magical senses are tricky things, right down to appropriately naming them. Current convention amongst the Colleges is 'Windsight', which is misleading on two levels as it isn't restricted to the eight Winds, nor does it always manifest as sight. In the recent past 'Magesight' was preferred, but one does not need to be a Mage to possess it - many people can perceive magic without any ability to manipulate it. Some more mystical types say 'Spirit-Sight', which might be the most correct of all if certain theories about the nature of magic and souls are correct. And in the common parlance it's 'Witchsight', which is just plain rude. Whatever name it goes by, the fact is that it's not a single sense at all, but a label applied to however a person perceives magic, and there's as many ways to perceive magic as there are people capable of doing so.

To you, Windsight is mostly sight, though Dhar has an accompanying smell and the Waaagh is more of a mingling of taste and sensation. The sense Johann describes to you is very different to conventional senses, and he haltingly does his best to explain a constant awareness of his surroundings, and eventually settles on describing it as being able to know where a fire is by the sensation of heat on your skin. To this sense, open air feels different enough to inert stone walls that he's still mostly able to make his way around, and various types of magical energies are sensed as a sort of once-removed emotion. But, naturally enough, it is various metals that his magical sense is most able to perceive, including the ability to discern alloys and roughly gauge purity at a touch. It does present something of a stumbling block for direct study, but you're still hopeful.

[Mathilde's teaching: Learning, 33+27+10(Windsage)+2(Library: Chamon)=72.]
[Johann's learning: Learning, 90+14+10(White Tower)-10(Inflexible Magic)=104.]

It goes a lot better than you expected. Your own magical sense manifests omnidirectionally, so after some trial and error you're able to find common ground and develop a good understanding of how he's perceiving the world. From there, you take him through some of the more basic meditative exercises of the Grey College, which is a lot better received when you tell him that absolute stillness is not required, nor is refraining from playing with his wolf-rats. Under your thoughtful gaze, he quickly and unknowingly hones his senses on the nimble and energetic creatures, and it's not long until there's no hesitation at all in his reaching out to rub ears, scratch shoulders, and tickle bellies.

From there, it's simply a matter of escalation, starting with simple sorting exercises and quickly moving on to more energetic pursuits, from throwing sticks for his wolf-rats to making his way carefully through the sprouting cabbage fields without crushing too much of the crop underfoot. Eventually you reach the point where you're throwing an ovular ball wrapped with iron wire back and forth, hindered to no small extent by the wolf-rats and their ability to jump higher than a man when they feel they're being left out of the game. By that point, Johann has regained his old confidence, and only the blindfold over his eyes indicates that he's not currently able to see.

The problem isn't simply training someone with a windsense that doesn't match our own - we've done that - but trying to involve Johann would mean we'd have three mutually exclusive windsenses to try and find a commonality amongst, which is much harder than finding the overlapping region between two (Mathilde's and Eike's).
 
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We actually trained Johann in Windsight:

The problem isn't necessarily in the aspect of training someone with a windsight that doesn't match our own, but trying to involve Johann would mean we'd have three mutually exclusive windsights to try and find a commonality amongst.
The reason I brought up training Eike in Windsight together with Johann is because I thought having both Johann and Mathilde would make it easier to find those commonalities because Johann and Mathilde are different. They can cover a wider area, cover for each other when Eike's Windsight works in some way that one of them can't quite grasp but the other can figure out how to work with.

But I think Mathilde and Johann's Windsights are substantially more similar to each other(even if not identical) than either of them are to Eike, which is why I think Mathilde training Johann was possible, and Mathilde and/or Johann training Eike probably isn't.
 
I think I'm a fan of using the Gambler on bookmining.

I think Gambler tends to be the most valuable on actions that either have severe potential consequences for failure, and/or actions that have staggeringly high potential benefits.

I think bookmining is both of those things, plus it may be very relevant for the Project, cuz the Vampires might have Waystone lore. Having that extra luck to increase the odds any Waystone lore will both be intact and discoverable by us would be very valuable.
I very much agree on using the Gambler on bookmining.
 
The black library was in a limestone castle. Limestone is very water resistant. The Dead Sea school were kept in a limestone cavern. Limestone caverns are traditionally used to keep thing dry or store things that need to be dry. Not saying their is not damage but if anything is going to keep it is a limestone cavern created by vampires for long term storage of valuable books, scrolls and other stuff.
 
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The black library was in a limestone castle. Limestone is very water resistant. The Dead Sea school were kept in a limestone cavern. Limestone caverns are traditionally used to keep thing dry or store things that need to be dry. Not saying their is not damage but if anything is going to keep it is a limestone cavern created by vampires for long term storage of valuable books, scrolls and other stuff.
I'm trying to remember, what's the official name of this place again?

You try looking up "Black Library" on the wiki, you're just going to get the novels being used as sources.
 
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