Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[LadyLynn]

I was thinking of 1 point of all the Cadai/Cytherai because it'd give us more of a basic grasp on the faith of all the major players, and potentially better figure out if there are any potentially important Elf god-related things we're missing, like the possible Ladrielle/Haletha connection.

Speaking of that, even if we don't want 1 point of each of the elven deities, I think some books on Ladrielle would be helpful for better figuring out whether things line up with Haletha.

 

[mathymancer]

I was thinking of 1 point of all the Cadai/Cytherai because it'd give us more of a basic grasp on the faith of all the major players, and potentially better figure out if there are any potentially important Elf god-related things we're missing, like the possible Ladrielle/Haletha connection.

Speaking of that, even if we don't want 1 point of each of the elven deities, I think some books on Ladrielle would be helpful for better figuring out whether things line up with Haletha.

Click to shrink...

I think that we'll probably need books going up to Esoteric on Ladrielle to really figure stuff out. If there's one thing the Bretonnian books demonstrated it is that you can't hope to figure out the secrets of the Gods from a cursory reading of public texts. Speaking of the Bretonnian books, I cannot in good conscience lobby for the purchase of even more books for the purpose of figuring out the daughters mystery after last time failed to give any actionable information, and in the specific case of Ladrielle I also don't think I can justify it from an in-game perspective: there are good reasons to suspect that Ladrielle is Halétha, but Mathilde is unaware of them, I asked just a few pages ago what Mathilde knows about Ladrielle and it is next to nothing.

 

[DragonParadox]

I do not think we can justify bringing more people in until we either have results or we need them for something in particular. While we had not yet started the project we had the cachet of 'being in on the ground floor' to sell our prospective partners on. We do not have that anymore, nor for the moment do we have results. So the best we can do is 'we found this thing that relates to Waystones that you are really good at', like the Golds and the Waystone gold. None of that is true with Larendele, at least not that we know of. Maybe she would be useful in finding Albion, but we are a long way from poking that.

 

[mathymancer]

The Lady of Mists and the protector of lost and hidden things is definitely someone you want on your side when looking for a secret island hidden in mists, so assuming that Ladrielle really is Halétha that's definitely one intersting way to use the coin. But I have a real hard time thinking of a scenario where Mathilde learns enough about both Ladrielle and Albion to realize that maybe turning the coin to the Father when looking for what's west of L'Anguille is a good idea, and even if she does how exactly does she get Ladrielle/Halétha to help her out? Pray?

 

[DragonParadox]

The Lady of Mists and the protector of lost and hidden things is definitely someone you want on your side when looking for a secret island hidden in mists, so assuming that Ladrielle really is Halétha that's definitely one intersting way to use the coin. But I have a real hard time thinking of a scenario where Mathilde learns enough about both Ladrielle and Albion to realize that maybe turning the coin to the Father when looking for what's west of L'Anguille is a good idea, and even if she does how exactly does she get Ladrielle/Halétha to help her out? Pray?

Click to shrink...

Well if at some point we find out that there are magic mists around a lost island, we would then have to find a servant of Ladrielle, sway them, hopefully with the Father, and then travel with them into the spooky mists. All this in the hope that the servant of the fog goddess has some power over fog... or if not they can do the praying.

 

[Alliterate]

What are people thinking? Currently I'm feeling something like:

Click to shrink...

I'm still interested in getting hold of a wayshard:

Every one of our people that ventures beyond their home carries a wayshard to find their way, and so they can be found if they fall."

"What is a wayshard?" you ask, trying not to sound too interested.

"Like a lodestone for Waystones, and just as useful for navigating,"

Click to shrink...

It's not exactly purchaseable, but perhaps this is the part of the turn where 'Project acquisitions' will also take place?

No, but Mathilde is likely to be able to get her hands on one through the Project once it begins.

Click to shrink...

 

[Parabola]

I don't think there's anything we want to spend our own money on? Maybe Imperial and dwarf books about metallurgy, I suppose -- if so, I would support saving a bit of money by simply buying Obscure/Antiquarian/Esoteric (150gc) rather than Regular+Extensive books for each. My understanding is that we're primarily interested in this topic for the sake of Waystone Gold, which means we want rare books and not a wide assortment of basic texts. Cuts it down to 300gc rather than 500gc.

Click to shrink...

Yeah I don't think we really need anything per se. If next turn we're doing book mining, then the one after that we'll likely get scribes and there'll probably be a movement to use the Great Deed to copy stuff from the University of Nuln, which should cover a good chunk of mundane Imperial sections. And we're saving up CF for the gigaflex, so... if we're going to independently buy anything, it should probably be from the Library of Mournings, ideally in a single topic so it's more efficient. But again, nothing's really popping up as urgent that we won't get via KAU.

I have this mild daydream that maybe at some point Mathilde could take up dancing or singing because that's part of Loec's things, but there's no chance i could convince the thread to vote on that.

 

[BurnNote]

I have this mild daydream that maybe at some point Mathilde could take up dancing or singing because that's part of Loec's things, but there's no chance i could convince the thread to vote on that.

Click to shrink...

If more evidence for Loec=Ranald turns up, then it'll be quite likely. Until then, no. Look forward to the elfcation?

 

[Derpmind]

Mathilde was also trashing Jovi Suncryer and Hexensohn during that campaign for getting themselves killed and being useless Mages. There was even a possibility to hate the use of Magic as a negative trait after Drakenhof. It was a real shit show.

Click to shrink...

To be fair, dead mages are useless to Mathilde. For now.

[ ] [PURCHASE] No purchase.
I don't think there's anything we want to spend our own money on? Maybe Imperial and dwarf books about metallurgy, I suppose -- if so, I would support saving a bit of money by simply buying Obscure/Antiquarian/Esoteric (150gc) rather than Regular+Extensive books for each. My understanding is that we're primarily interested in this topic for the sake of Waystone Gold, which means we want rare books and not a wide assortment of basic texts. Cuts it down to 300gc rather than 500gc.

Click to shrink...

Or we could buy metallurgy as one of the four topic from the Colleges. The Gold Order likely has a full set.

 

[picklepikkl]

Or we could buy metallurgy as one of the four topic from the Colleges. The Gold Order likely has a full set.

Click to shrink...

Boney's already confirmed that we can do this. However, it's a mundane topic, so it wouldn't cost us CF to buy the Empire's books, which means using the Colleges purchase option is inefficient.

I'd still do it if it were important and we didn't have better things to use the Colleges buy on, but we've got a bunch of magical topics that are of both personal and professional interest that we'd like to grab without paying the CF, and we're not short on cash to buy Metallurgy books out of pocket if we decide it's important.

 

[mathymancer]

How about buying Eonir books on metallurgy? If we're going to spend 250 gc on books then this purchase won't make a future Barak Varr booksellers less efficient, and if the capstone metal has its origins in some sort of Old One metal as we suspect the elves might have relevant knowledge.

The only downside is that once the dwarves find out we went to the the Elgi for their insights on metal before going to the dwarves our honorary Dawi status will be revoked and possibly a grudge will be declared, but you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

 

[picklepikkl]

How about buying Eonir books on metallurgy? If we're going to spend 250 gc on books then this purchase won't make a future Barak Varr booksellers less efficient, and if the capstone metal has its origins in some sort of Old One metal as we suspect the elves might have relevant knowledge.

The only downside is that once the dwarves find out we went to the the Elgi for their insights on metal before going to the dwarves our honorary Dawi status will be revoked and possibly a grudge will be declared, but you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

Click to shrink...

I think that the mechanics of the Library of Mournings and our basing in Laurelorn are such that, for Waystone purposes, we automatically have access to the full Eonir corpus on any topic directly germane to the project, but without the ability to copy it.

@Boney Is there anything else besides Old Ones in the restricted section of the Library of Mournings we're now allowed to access (but not copy until we get better scribes)? Or is it all a bunch of still-restricted magic stuff that they aren't letting us check out because of military relevance?

Click to shrink...

Mathilde will be accessing the relevant books on topics like Waystones and magical theory as needed.

Click to shrink...

This answer was specifically with regard to restricted materials, but it seems likely to me that it would apply to non-restricted material like metallurgy as well. If I'm right, paying for copies of the Eonir metallurgy books would add them to Kron-Azril-Ungol, but is not necessary to have access to the relevant information during the project: if they've got written-down information about Waystone Gold, we will be able to consult it.

 

[mathymancer]

I think that the mechanics of the Library of Mournings and our basing in Laurelorn are such that, for Waystone purposes, we automatically have access to the full Eonir corpus on any topic directly germane to the project, but without the ability to copy it.


This answer was specifically with regard to restricted materials, but it seems likely to me that it would apply to non-restricted material like metallurgy as well. If I'm right, paying for copies of the Eonir metallurgy books would add them to Kron-Azril-Ungol, but is not necessary to have access to the relevant information during the project: if they've got written-down information about Waystone Gold, we will be able to consult it.

Click to shrink...

That makes sense, though it's probably best to confirm with Boney. But in that case, wouldn't putting our Golds on studying the metal also give us access to Empire metallurgy books, since they can take a gyro trip to Altdorf and access the Gold Order's library?

 

[K von Carstein]

Speaking of the Library of Mourning, we were promised access to books written by Caledor the Dragon Tamer and the first Everqueen. When will we be allowed to access them?

 

[picklepikkl]

That makes sense, though it's probably best to confirm with Boney. But in that case, wouldn't putting our Golds on studying the metal also give us access to Empire metallurgy books, since they can take a gyro trip to Altdorf and access the Gold Order's library?

Click to shrink...

What an excellent question to which I have no fucking clue as to the answer! Though we're kind of putting the cart super before the horse in this case, because we don't actually know what any of our upcoming Waystone actions will be and which ones will be WEBMAT-compatible; I think it's very likely that the Golden boys will have an option to study Waystone gold, but we don't strictly speaking know, and it's probably not worth bugging Boney about the specifics of Gold library access until we've got an actual set of actions to consider.

Hopefully hiring Adela pays dividends in letting our research team do their work in Laurelorn, Altdorf, and Karak Eight Peaks as per whatever is best to the action; having a dedicated vehicle and pilot rather than needing to take scheduled flights seems like it should help in efficiently making use of the various libraries' and research facilities' situational bonuses.

Speaking of the Library of Mourning, we were promised access to books written by Caledor the Dragon Tamer and the first Everqueen. When will we be allowed to access them?

Click to shrink...

Per the Boney quote I supplied before, we can access the relevant books on Waystones and magical theory as needed during the project.

 

[mathymancer]

What an excellent question to which I have no fucking clue as to the answer! Though we're kind of putting the cart super before the horse in this case, because we don't actually know what any of our upcoming Waystone actions will be and which ones will be WEBMAT-compatible; I think it's very likely that the Golden boys will have an option to study Waystone gold, but we don't strictly speaking know, and it's probably not worth bugging Boney about the specifics of Gold library access until we've got an actual set of actions to consider.

Click to shrink...

True, but we are talking about book purchases, which we must decide on before next turn. I think the thing to do here is just delay the purchase of metallurgy books, and if next turn it turns out that we can't access some books we'll just buy the books for the turn after that. I'm confident that we'll still have enough Waystone related WEB-MAT actions next turn even without studying the metal: I'm very confident that we'll have a Max library option, since we had one at the start of the project with the libraries of the Colleges and the Library of Mourning probably merits an action too, and iirc Boney greenlit some sort of "take Johann around in a gyrocopter and use Windsight to find leylines". And Egrimm is part of the offical Light Order contribution, he will definitely have something to do.

 

[ChronOblivion]

Eike's education

Dice 1: What is she best at?
Dice 2: What does she want to be best at?
Dice 3: What is she having trouble with?

1 - Diplomacy / 2 - Martial / 3 - Stewardship / 4 - Intrigue / 5 - Piety / 6 - Learning

Click to shrink...

Still thinking about this, it's such a pivotal set of rolls for an entire major character. She's such a good successor for Mathilde, so much like her, and it makes me more doubtful that she is going to commit to full-time EIC for the rest of her life. Is she going to want that after years of globetrotting and magical research and combat? Is Grandma going to take that gracefully?

Easy to imagine her rolling Stewardship for the first two rolls, at which point I would've gone "oh alright, she is both gifted and driven towards the goal of running the EIC, so Wilhelmine might be the best possible Master for her". Even if it would've hurt a bit. And I also would've voted on a social action to ask her Grandma what sacrifices she made to Ranald to nudge the dice that hard.

Either way, I really look forward to her character arc going forward. I want to do right by her and see what kind of person she grows into.

 

[BeepSmile]

we'll have the purchase vote before then. What are people thinking?.

Click to shrink...

Dwarven favor spent on making our gyro "better" in whatever ways are available to the Runesmiths working on it

 

[Tasoli]

Dwarven favor spent on making our gyro "better" in whatever ways are available to the Runesmiths working on it

Click to shrink...

Weren't we going to enchant it rather than use runes?

 

[Tobtorp]

One thing i will say about the Eike situation. I see a lot of people wanting to "focus" on windsight. And I'm uncertain that you can train windsight very effectively. Also I don't want to pressure Eike into becoming a mini-mathilde. If she wants to go down that route herself then that's fine but let's not force her to do it.

 

[BeepSmile]

Weren't we going to enchant it rather than use runes?

Click to shrink...

There were a number of people talking about such with language that had connotations of "this is how we are doing it". It's been mildly pissing me of for quite some time now.
(Edit: I probably missed someone making a good argument, since I have seen so much discussion on this topic with the 'enchantment' as the assumed method. As I'd like to not be pissed off, I'd be grateful if someone would kindly point me towards said argument).

I never saw a direct argument put forward about how enchantment is preferable to runes for this purpose.

Imo, an enchanted boiler thingy that produces fire that does not go out and can be attached to the main engine would be very cool. Infinite fuel get!
But spellcasting invites miscast (roll the dice enough and they'll come up snake-eyes eventually), so I am 100% opposed to a non-enchanting solution if we use magic. That would cost College Favour to get. I have other things I want to spend CF on.

Runes can do... things. We don't know what things, and what limits they have is up to Boney. We know they can provide motive force (our tower of serenity's water system) and move heat (the expedition's meat coolers); though we have no idea what limits are involved.
----

Also, I have not just been wanting an 'infinite fuel' upgrade, but whatever "make gyrocopter better" upgrades Boney will allow.

College magic has strict areas where it would be useful (fuel/noise/invisible/"gold's better at doing thing" spell). We players don't know what runes can and can't improve.

 

[Tobtorp]

There were a number of people talking about such with language that had connotations of "this is how we are doing it". It's been mildly pissing me of for quite some time now.

I never saw a direct argument put forward about how enchantment is preferable to runes for this purpose.

Imo, an enchanted boiler thingy that produces fire that does not go out and can be attached to the main engine would be very cool. Infinite fuel get!
But spellcasting invites miscast (roll the dice enough and they'll come up snake-eyes eventually), so I am 100% opposed to a non-enchanting solution if we use magic. That would cost College Favour to get. I have other things I want to spend CF on.

Runes can do... things. We don't know what things, and what limits they have is up to Boney. We know they can provide motive force (our tower of serenity's water system) and move heat (the expedition's meat coolers); though we have no idea what limits are involved.
----

Also, I have not just been wanting an 'infinite fuel' upgrade, but whatever "make gyrocopter better" upgrades Boney will allow.

College magic has strict areas where it would be useful (fuel/noise/invisible/"gold's better at doing thing" spell). We players don't know what runes can and can't improve.

Click to shrink...

The biggest problem with runes (that I'm seeing) is finding a runesmith radical enough to actually do it. We already had problems finding one willing to put even very tame runes on our revolver. A gyrocarrier seems like a wholey different beast. Though I will ping @Boney just to ask if I'm roughly right with my prediction.

 

[Nerdasaurus Rex]

One thing i will say about the Eike situation. I see a lot of people wanting to "focus" on windsight. And I'm uncertain that you can train windsight very effectively. Also I don't want to pressure Eike into becoming a mini-mathilde. If she wants to go down that route herself then that's fine but let's not force her to do it.

Click to shrink...

We helped Johann train and develop his windsight after he lost his actual eyesight, and I believe helping apprentices develop their own is a part of being a master.

You're right that we shouldn't pressure Eike into being a copy of Mathilde, our role is to help Eike discover what type of wizard she wants to be. It's just that she's not exactly a blank slate, and already has a few interests and skills that align well with Mathlide's.

The big difference between them, however, is how their poor diplomacy manifests. Mathilde tends to fall back on seeming aloof and mysterious when she doesn't know what to say. Eike, from what the Dean told us, seems to just say what ever is on her mind without any consideration—which isn't a bad thing, but less than ideal for a grey wizard.

 

[Tobtorp]

We helped Johann train and develop his windsight after he lost his actual eyesight, and I believe helping apprentices develop their own is a part of being a master.

You're right that we shouldn't pressure Eike into being a copy of Mathilde, our role is to help Eike discover what type of wizard she wants to be. It's just that she's not exactly a blank slate, and already has a few interests and skills that align well with Mathlide's.

The big difference between them, however, is how their poor diplomacy manifests. Mathilde tends to fall back on seeming aloof and mysterious when she doesn't know what to say. Eike, from what the Dean told us, seems to just say what ever is on her mind without any consideration—which isn't a bad thing, but less than ideal for a grey wizard.

Click to shrink...

Oh i don't doubt there is basic training for it. I'm just doubting that there is advanced training for windsight. We mostly got ours so good through continuous use in weird situations.

Also yeah, finding out what wizard Eike wants to be sounds exactly like what we should do.

 

[BeepSmile]

The biggest problem with runes (that I'm seeing) is finding a runesmith radical enough to actually do it. We already had problems finding one willing to put even very tame runes on our revolver. A gyrocarrier seems like a wholey different beast. Though I will ping @Boney just to ask if I'm roughly right with my prediction.

Click to shrink...

I do not disagree with the of your post, but it does not address my issue.

However, my desire here is to get any sort of idea of what can be gotten from the runic path and decide based on that knowledge as opposed to running along the (actually, generally quite reasonable) logic chain of "runes work better on traditional things" + "magic don't give a shit" = "enchanting is the better option for improving this very non-traditional thing".

Watson worldbuiding, below our level of granularity: "Maybe the best rune for the job actually turns out to be a strengthening rune on a tiny, traditionally shaped widget, and a motive-force rune on a piston, and... ect, and those come together synergistically to produce an overalll improvement greater than what would be achieved via enchanting.

My point is we don't know, and have no information on it and I'd very much like something a lot more compelling than the logic chain I've ascribed to you when it comes to making a decision on this.

----
Having spoken about this quite a bit in the past, I have a recollection of Boney stating something along the lines of "more AV means better runic improvements" and "I'll develop [what runes might do to improve the gyrocarrige] if/when it becomes relevant"