I do not think it has a name but @Andres should know if Drakenof library has a name.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I'm pretty sure they don't. Boney generally doesn't run things in-parallel if he can avoid it.
I expect the state of any books in the ruins of Drakenhof are currently in a nebulous state that will only be determined once we actually go book mining and Boney rolls for what's there.
There might be bonuses and maluses for logical things, like damage over time, but I doubt Boney has it on-going.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
On the subject of future assignments for Eike we could potentially have her assist with getting some books, basically treat it as a learning exercise where she needs to negotiate access to the books from one of the easier sources and then figure out how to get copies of all of them.
It's a nice little exercise that helps bulk up our library while she is at it.
It's a nice little exercise that helps bulk up our library while she is at it.
- Location
- Australia
There are two libraries in Drakenhof. The first is in the castle itself and has no formal name, but it's noted to have a legendary amount of books. The second is also huge and built into the earth underneath the castle, and it's called the Black Library.
I've compiled all the information I could find on them in my library post in the Vampire Counts spoiler, as well as the sources I used for them.
I think it's safe to assume that the first one doesn't exist anymore—or at least, the physical structure. Who knows what state the books ended up in.
King Arthur
The Once and Future King
Especially while she's just about to finish digging her way out.
"After
head chop off
"darn it" her disconnected head muttered before falling to silence.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Is there any reason to think they aren't the same library? Like, yes, Mannfred brought books back with him from Nehekhara, but why wouldn't he keep them in the library that already existed?
- Location
- Australia
The main reason to think they aren't the same library is that Mannfred's library is stated to be in the castle itself while the Black Library is stated to be built in the earth underneath it. As for why he wouldn't keep them in the same library, I can think of two reasons. The first reason is simply space limitations; there's only so much space in the castle/in the Black Library and a great many books. The second reason is a potential rivalry; Mannfred and Immoliah Fey were contemporaries, both making their libraries during the time of Konrad's reign.
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- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Strigoi (Singing King), Necrarch (Abdul Alhazred), Blood Dragon (random head Roswita gave us during a social action). Either a von Carstein or a Lahmian pretending to be a von Carstein would get us closer to a complete set.
You only get the bonus for having books if you can access them easily and freely. Being able to take a gyrocopter to Altdorf to look something up is not the same as having all the relevant books right there on your rotary reading desk for you to fill with bookmarks and cross-reference at a moment's notice.
You are. There are engineers who consider gyrocopters to be dangerously newfangled. A runesmith who would consider them tried and tested enough to even begin developing runes for them would be very radical indeed, let alone one who decided that long enough ago to have usable results of their experimentation. Runes are reliable because of the cultural norms that ensure anything you get has proven itself beyond any doubt at all, and if you start going out of your way to bypass those, you run the very real risk of finding out exactly how runes can go wrong.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Mannfred pretty distinctly would have made his library after Konrad's reign, he certainly didn't return to Sylvania until his rivals were well and dead.
I think plenty of people would consider a chamber below the castle that can only be accessed from the castle to be part of the castle.
Where'd you get all this about limestone? The chamber being made of it, I mean.
Strigoi (Singing King), Necrarch (Abdul Alhazred), Blood Dragon (random head Roswita gave us during a social action). Either a von Carstein or a Lahmian pretending to be a von Carstein would get us closer to a complete set.
There's a Lahmian running around the Sylvanian countryside just waiting for their skull to be collected—or if we're feeling lazy, we can just nick the one from Roswita's mantlepiece. That just leaves the Von Carstein—and there has to be a least one of those in the ruins of Drakenhof.
- Location
- Australia
A different page of the Vampire Counts book makes it clear that he did indeed return only after Konrad died, whereas the one I looked at before seemed to say it was before he died. Seems I was wrong on that count. I've still got reason to believe it's two different libraries.
Firstly, we've got this from the last main turn update.
If Mannfred simply moved his books into the subterranean library or vice-versa, I think it's pretty unlikely there'd be two separate sets of legends.
Besides that line, the information in Night's Dark Masters does most to make it seem they were two different libraries.
The section on the Black Library didn't mention Mannfred at all, which you think it would've if he'd dumped his books there. It's not simply a matter of the authors having forgotten about his library, because it's mentioned in comparison to von Sangster's library.
Perhaps the biggest argument for them being two separate libraries is Immoliah Fey. There's no source for him anywhere but Night's Dark Masters. He's an original invention of the book, and he only shows up in the Black Library section. They very easily could've said Mannfred made the library but decided to create Immoliah instead, and making the libraries separate is the only reason I can think of.
Then there's the fact that Immoliah was the one who made the chamber huge. If he did that, it's because he had enough books that he needed the space. I don't think Mannfred with his own treasure trove of lore taken from all over Nehekhara would've fit with all the existing books.
Though I have to say, I really wouldn't mind if Mannfred managed to fit his books into Immoliah's library. It means that both gigantic hoards of books would've survived the bombardment in their entirety, which means more books for us. I just don't think they are in fact the same library.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I mean, my reasoning would be
"We want to have this library be made under Konrad's reign, spread out the developments of Castle Drakenhof, you know?"
"Konrad's not exactly bookish..."
"We'll make an OC."
The library being carved out under Konrad's reign firmly leaves it incompatible with Mannfred carving it out. And I don't see why Immoliah would have only made it big enough for the books present at the time, that'd be pretty short-sighted.
On the matter of myths and legends... they're myths and legends. The Von Carsteins didn't exactly distribute a floor plan. There'd be legends about hidden libraries in Drakenhof regardless of the reality.
That's the last I'll say on it, I've made the point I want to make and any reality as far as quest-canon goes will be up to Boney.
- Location
- Australia
Something of a tangent from the current discussion, but I've been reading Vampire Counts and I've just realised something. Of the two most prominent female vampires, one's entire characterisation was that she's a devoted wife, and the other's was that she's a manipulative seductress. Old GW was not good at representing women.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Honestly, 8th edition might have been a backslide.
At least, I think Morathi becoming obsessed with Tyrion because he looks like Aenarion first appears in 8th?
- Location
- Australia
Just to clarify what I meant, I was saying they could have had Mannfred carve out the Black Library and do it after Konrad's death, rather than have it be Immoliah Fey carving it out before Konrad's death.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
@Boney will Adela be tinkering with the gyrocopter on her own, either magically or mundane engineering?
If so, could we take actions to work with her on that? You have said that because we didn't hire her as a full member of WEBMAT we can't take normal WEBMAT actions with her because we're not paying her for that, but what about either regular or WEBMAT actions directly related to the gyrocopter? I suspect it would have to be a regular action because of what you said here but I just wanted to check:
If so, could we take actions to work with her on that? You have said that because we didn't hire her as a full member of WEBMAT we can't take normal WEBMAT actions with her because we're not paying her for that, but what about either regular or WEBMAT actions directly related to the gyrocopter? I suspect it would have to be a regular action because of what you said here but I just wanted to check:
- Location
- Netherlands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I will say I do have some worries about the idea of hiring a... I think it was a Celestial? for the book-mining.
I get the idea of getting help with searching for books, but part of the reason the Colleges will sign off on us doing this so easily is because of the minimizing number of people in contact with vampire books thing.
Now, assuming we request a Very Trustworthy Wizard, I'm sure nothing would go wrong while we're around to keep an eye on things.
But how long will the book-mining take? The excavation will take time, and the ferrying of books will also take time. There could be any number of delays.
Will we stick around 24/7 for the entire process? Or will we only keep the hired Wizard around for a while, and have them leave when we go elsewhere? Will hiring the Wizard still be worth it if we only keep them around briefly?
I'll gladly hear counterarguments, the idea does sound like it has potential, even if I'm worried about some details.
I get the idea of getting help with searching for books, but part of the reason the Colleges will sign off on us doing this so easily is because of the minimizing number of people in contact with vampire books thing.
Now, assuming we request a Very Trustworthy Wizard, I'm sure nothing would go wrong while we're around to keep an eye on things.
But how long will the book-mining take? The excavation will take time, and the ferrying of books will also take time. There could be any number of delays.
Will we stick around 24/7 for the entire process? Or will we only keep the hired Wizard around for a while, and have them leave when we go elsewhere? Will hiring the Wizard still be worth it if we only keep them around briefly?
I'll gladly hear counterarguments, the idea does sound like it has potential, even if I'm worried about some details.
- Location
- Australia
I had the exact same thought that introducing another wizard would make it riskier, which is why I wanted a simple magic item at first. However, Boney's post here put that concern to rest.
I'm inclined to say yes because what we want from a Celestial is the locations of books, so as long as their divinations produce usable information it doesn't matter if they complete their duties in the first week and then spend the rest of the trip stargazing or flirting with the quartermaster or whatever else
- Location
- Australia
Though the primary purpose of the bookmining expedition is, well, books, it's still Castle Drakenhof. There's all manner of possible artefacts we might be able to find there, especially with a Celestial's help.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Here's hoping there's a couple untainted enough that they deserve more than a trip to the nearest volcano.
I'm sure the vote over what to do with all the Dhar artifacts we turn up will be… something.
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