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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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[X] Plan The Smith's Hammer and Retinue Aid

I already can't wait to see Zharrgal made.

... Heh, amusingly, it's actually the name I'm least super-enthused about. As a Dwarf-language word, it makes me squint my eyes a bit. As a translated name, it's okay as "Golden/Worthy/Valuable Fire" -- Golden Fire or perhaps "Firegold"? I could see 'Firegold' being a name or nickname the weapon eventually picks up and is referred to by, it sounds cool, but... Well. The usage of "gal" together with "Zharr" just doesn't really roll off the tongue, you know? If it somehow did something clever with '-il' or '-ril' instead...

How would something like using "Bryn" instead of "Gal" sound like? Such as or Zharrbryn or Brynzharr. Or, perhaps, something like "Bryn Makaz" -- "golden, glittering, brilliant, or shining" plus "tool or weapon." (For an amusing moment I thought about naming it "Gal Makaz", making it close to Ghal Maraz. But nah. I think I prefer Bryn anyway.) I can't think of a good way to work "Fire" into it though...

Hm, let me take a look at some of the words for gold in Khazalid. (This may be a bit late of a time to do this, but eh. I guess at this point it's just for fun now. Trying to find something which rolls off the tongue for me, or which feels clever.)

Bryn - Gold which shines brightly in the sunlight. Anything that is shiny or brilliant, or brilliantly coloured or decorated.
Brynduraz - A bright blue crystal valued by the Dwarfs. ("Brightstone") .
Gal - Any kind of gold.
Galaz - Gold which makes a nice ornament.
Galbaraz - Oathgold.
Gorl - The colour yellow; gold which is soft and yellow.
Ril - Gold ore which shines brightly in rock

Oh neat, "ril" also works as gold ore... Hmm, but trying to work "Zharr" into it is awkward. Bryn is also another neat word! I could see Zharrbryn or Brynzharr working out as a word. Also the word that is used in "Ankor Bryn", aka the Glittering Realm. Hm, I wonder what "hammer" is in Khazalid?

Grund - Hammer.
Grundlid - "Hammertongue:" A secret language known by miners and engineers consisting of numbered and timed taps on a hard surface.
Grung - A mine.
Grungnaz - Making or smithing.
Grungni - Dwarf Ancestor God of smithing and forging. (See Grungni.)
Grungron - A forge.

Makaz - Tool or weapon.

Huh. Hammer is "grund." (Zharrgrund reminds me too much of Zharr Naggrund, a place-name, even though Naggrund means "desolation" rather than something to do with hammer.) Also, 'Grungnaz' sounds promising. The making or smithing of something. And "Makaz" is tool or weapon.

Hmm. Heh. Man, it would have been amusing to name it "Gal Makaz" -- something which translates as 'Gold Tool or Weapon' but sounds super close to "Ghal Maraz" the great warhammer. That would be amusing. Or perhaps "Bryn Makaz" -- something that harkens a bit to the Glittering Realm, and looks a bit similar to Barak Azamar in wording too...

I could actually see that happening. It getting referred to as 'a golden tool' or 'brilliant tool' or 'glittering tool.'
 
@buli-buli @Captainwolf do you two mind putting the Princely Hunting option in? You two are controlling the current form of Smith's Hammer and Retinue Aid and Smith's Hammer and Retinue Recruitment.
Garlak said:
[X] Plan The Smith's Hammer and Retinue Aid

I already can't wait to see Zharrgal made.

... Heh, amusingly, it's actually the name I'm least super-enthused about. As a Dwarf-language word, it makes me squint my eyes a bit. As a translated name, it's okay as "Golden/Worthy/Valuable Fire" -- Golden Fire or perhaps "Firegold"? I could see 'Firegold' being a name or nickname the weapon eventually picks up and is referred to by, it sounds cool, but... Well. The usage of "gal" together with "Zharr" just doesn't really roll off the tongue, you know? If it somehow did something clever with '-il' or '-ril' instead...

How would something like using "Bryn" instead of "Gal" sound like? Such as or Zharrbryn or Brynzharr. Or, perhaps, something like "Bryn Makaz" -- "golden, glittering, brilliant, or shining" plus "tool or weapon." (For an amusing moment I thought about naming it "Gal Makaz", making it close to Ghal Maraz. But nah. I think I prefer Bryn anyway.) I can't think of a good way to work "Fire" into it though...

Hm, let me take a look at some of the words for gold in Khazalid. (This may be a bit late of a time to do this, but eh. I guess at this point it's just for fun now. Trying to find something which rolls off the tongue for me, or which feels clever.)

Bryn - Gold which shines brightly in the sunlight. Anything that is shiny or brilliant, or brilliantly coloured or decorated.
Brynduraz - A bright blue crystal valued by the Dwarfs. ("Brightstone") .
Gal - Any kind of gold.
Galaz - Gold which makes a nice ornament.
Galbaraz - Oathgold.
Gorl - The colour yellow; gold which is soft and yellow.
Ril - Gold ore which shines brightly in rock

Oh neat, "ril" also works as gold ore... Hmm, but trying to work "Zharr" into it is awkward. Bryn is also another neat word! I could see Zharrbryn or Brynzharr working out as a word. Also the word that is used in "Ankor Bryn", aka the Glittering Realm. Hm, I wonder what "hammer" is in Khazalid?

Grund - Hammer.
Grundlid - "Hammertongue:" A secret language known by miners and engineers consisting of numbered and timed taps on a hard surface.
Grung - A mine.
Grungnaz - Making or smithing.
Grungni - Dwarf Ancestor God of smithing and forging. (See Grungni.)
Grungron - A forge.

Makaz - Tool or weapon.

Huh. Hammer is "grund." (Zharrgrund reminds me too much of Zharr Naggrund, a place-name, even though Naggrund means "desolation" rather than something to do with hammer.) Also, 'Grungnaz' sounds promising. The making or smithing of something. And "Makaz" is tool or weapon.

Hmm. Heh. Man, it would have been amusing to name it "Gal Makaz" -- something which translates as 'Gold Tool or Weapon' but sounds super close to "Ghal Maraz" the great warhammer. That would be amusing. Or perhaps "Bryn Makaz" -- something that harkens a bit to the Glittering Realm, and looks a bit similar to Barak Azamar in wording too...

I could actually see that happening. It getting referred to as 'a golden tool' or 'brilliant tool' or 'glittering tool.'
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The reason I picked it was imagining the idea of molten gold shining in the planet's core, and also the idea of touching that most Worthy of Flames, the Deep Magic beneath the ground as represented by the creative forces of fire and magma.
 
so are yall seriously not going to equip our retinue before we go on the excursion?

we can easily put 2 action in to the hammer and 2 in to the hearthguard. instead, our guard are going to be going out with sub-standard equipment on our first big event since Suneater.
 
DarknessSmiles said:
so are yall seriously not going to equip our retinue before we go on the excursion?

we can easily put 2 action in to the hammer and 2 in to the hearthguard. instead, our guard are going to be going out with sub-standard equipment on our first big event since Suneater.
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My plan next turn is to equip them with either 2 or 3 actions, then spend our last action going to Dum because the expedition happens at the end of turn 31.

Current leading plan clears out the prep work for them.
 
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Eh, to me "gal" just looks and/or sounds weird when added to "Zharr." The molten gold of primordial or chthonic earth and fire. The meaning or implication or ideas isn't bad, but the word choice and word-look is a bit... yeah.
BungieONI said:
This is flat out incorrect. The cap is tied to qualities of the item, such as what it is made out of, not just the amount of actions it has at base and overflow is explicitly not wasted. Past the threshold it is pushed into narrative benefits.
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TotallyNotEvil said:
Doesn't change the fact that the base amount of AP heavily influences the cap on overflow.

It being wasted are soulcake's words, not mine, at least IIRC.
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I disagree on this, as it's not about the base AP. Or at least, not about the base AP alone.
Derpmind said:
Only if it has enough overwork capacity for any of that. While we're all happy with Trollslayer, I think in retrospect it's quite obvious that one of its overwork actions ended up going into Rune Metal Pt.3 rather than improving the end product. Zharrgal has a decent combo but nothing game changing; it sounds like it'll improve our work but won't be so big that it'll make any quest mechanic impact. (And it doesn't sound like it'll tie into Barak Azamar either, to my ear at least.) I think 5 overwork actions is almost certain to be more than it's maximum overwork capacity.
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The soulcake quote said several things, one being that past a certain point, mechanical benefits tap out and you get narrative benefits. That, and, that this is not meant to dissuade us from going enthusiastically all-in on a favored crafting project that we are really excited about.BungieONI and I are very interested in those narrative benefits.
BelligerentGnu said:
I feel like there were a couple of missed opportunities in this update, awesome as it was. The first, and not terribly important one is that it would have been cool if the apprentices could have gotten even a glimpse of the actual Stormweath armour. This is the first real chance they've had to see what their master is capable of when he goes all out. Much more importantly though, I feel like we really should have gotten a view of KotS's reaction to the armour. We put a lot into making the perfect armour for him, and we got to see that it's extremely powerful and wildly successful from a tactical standpoint, but I'm really missing that character moment where Snorri delivers the armour, and KotS puts it on for the first time and feels the power this thing gives him...I want to know what they said to each other, how the other griffons reacted to seeing their King twist the sky to his will.

The other thing is, regarding the overflow mechanic - it feels like you're trying to encourage us to use fewer actions per difficult project, because we're hitting the cap and wasting actions. And that's fine, but I've got to say that if you want that to actually happen, you've got to communicate with us a little more clearly about where those limits actually lie. Because like you said, this is about making cool stuff - and the idea of leaving some arbitrary amount of coolness on the table because we didn't put enough effort in is anathema to us. I think a lot of us would far rather risk wasting actions than risk making an item even slightly less than it could be. Even a rough guideline about how much overflow is actually useful would be a huge help.
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soulcake said:
1. Honestly Im not exactly a fan of doing that sort of stuff when I write. I get that its fun to read about and I too enjoy reading it every now and again, but as the writer It's something I've found I don't like writing out. Mostly because on my end it just devolves into "oh yeah isn't this cool? So cool." Which feels, not fun to write, at least for me.

2. That's like the exact opposite of what I intend. Again, I'm just letting yall know I don't intend to give limits like that because to me it devalues the art of creating something when I try and tie a mechanic to it. It was only ever meant to remind you that at some point you won't get any mechanical benefit from the action. Like past a certain point, overflow won't give you another ability, improve this modifier endlessly or some such benefit. There's a limit to it. IDK, it was more to say "hey temper your expectations a little and use common sense depending on the situation at hand. Certain things will more clearly have room to oomph it compared to others" Trying to quantify it could just as easily mean yall try and game it and spreadsheet it.

If I had to use an example then consider this.

The simple request to make those pickaxes in turn one had a lower overflow limit than adding Runes to the various districts. Which in itself had a lower overflow ceiling than making Trollslayer did. Its a bit of narrative cue and common sense, which I keep vague on purpose.

Basically, it's what Bungie is trying to tell you. I hope that didn't confuse things more.
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And at the end it gives a comparison to some other items which had less overflow. Let's take a look at those.

"If I had to use an example then consider this.

The simple request to make those pickaxes in turn one had a lower overflow limit than adding Runes to the various districts. Which in itself had a lower overflow ceiling than making Trollslayer did. Its a bit of narrative cue and common sense, which I keep vague on purpose."

So Trollslayer had more overflow than "rune the districts" and "make pickaxes." Let's take a look at how much AP those turn 1 actions had.

Requests:
[ ] [Simple]Rush Job: The discovery of a large seam of Gromril has left you with a surplus of requests to equip the miners of the hold with the proper gear to get at that motherlode as quickly as possible. [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
[ ] [Simple]Rune. Those. Halls!: A goodly amount of the future main hall has been excavated and are in desperate need of a good runic...eh be-rune-ing? It needs runes alright? [Cost: 4 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc.

2 AP and 4 AP. And yet they had less overflow available than Trollslayer, which was a 1-AP-design-1-AP-craft thing. Because routine infrastructure work might have a lot of stuff to do, but it isn't going to be very complicated or fancy stuff. This, however, is a masterpiece and it has a lot more room for a Runelord to obsess over it and pour sweat, blood, and tears into it, and make it the best damn thing ever.
 
Garlak said:
Eh, to me "gal" just looks and/or sounds weird when added to "Zharr." The molten gold of primordial or chthonic earth and fire. The meaning or implication or ideas isn't bad, but the word choice and word-look is a bit... yeah.
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I try and say it with a deep thrum, deep in my chest voice (music term, its interesting stuff), like a dwarf.

I haven't tried it yet but I assume yodelling it would be quite funny.


Captainwolf said:
Done.
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Thank you thank you.
 
[X] Plan The Smith's Hammer and Retinue Aid

They want to see what the Hearthguard do?

Well, let's show them!
 
A thought. Should we add a bit saying that Snorri should wear Barak Azamar while forging Zharrgal? Use Barak Azamars Conduit of the Earth to impower the Runes of Zharrgal rather than the Winds?
 
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