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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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TotallyNotEvil said:
Guys, we've been told that there's a cap on overflowing actions, and that cap is lower the smaller the original action cost is.

And we've been further told that overflowed actions are straight up wasted. Measuring fifteen times when you got it perfetly right in the first ten doesn't change the results, only costs more time.
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This is flat out incorrect. The cap is tied to qualities of the item, such as what it is made out of, not just the amount of actions it has at base and overflow is explicitly not wasted. Past the threshold it is pushed into narrative benefits.

[X] Plan The Smith's Hammer and Retinue Aid
-[X] [Simple] A Company Equipped: [Cost: 4 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. Gain retinue equipped to the highest practical standard, all future members will receive the same upon recruitment. As your recruits are all Dwarfs well into their third century of life they do not lack for equipment. With the Gromril Mine and the abundance of Runesmiths they are arguably better equipped than the average longbeard their age, but you can do better. As their patron, you have a responsibility to see them armed to the best that you can feasibly manage. A paltry cost considering these dwarfs have sworn themselves utterly to you by your own reckoning. Of course, as with most things, there was the element of prestige involved as well. As the armour and gear a patron could equip their retainers with was a reflection of their status as well as, more importantly to you, a means of keeping them alive. And with you being a Runelord, the oldest Runelord in the Far North even, that bar is set very high indeed, both by yourself and outsiders. 2 Apprentice Actions.
--[X] Optional Write in: Adding Hearthstones to their equipment, such as gloves so that they touch the injured with warm hands or other suitably thematic items.
-[X] [Difficult] Write in, Zharrgral Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action]. Productivity Like No Other will proc. Apply optional structural materials here. The plan in your mind burns to be made. A hammer to sunder foes and craft wonders. Its head Adamant and blazing with runes, and its haft good Silver Wutroth reinforced with Adamant rings studded with sapphires and wrapped in Elder Shardwyrm hide for grip. 4 Actions. Wear Barak Azamar while forging it.
--[X] Theme: Combo, Makerstrike: [Master Rune of Conduction (Elder Magma Dragon's Blood), Rune of Smednir (any suitable upgrade materials), Rune of Thungni (any suitable upgrade materials)]
-[X] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. You formed these Hearthguard to combat all the ills that befall the dwarfen people. Send them out, render aid, earn goodwill and spread the word of your retainers and their stated mission beyond the borders of Kraka Drakk. 1 Retainer Action.
-[X] ORDER: T3 Pegasus Heart
--[X] Kingly Expedite: 15 Favor.
-[X] Princely Hunting: [Cost: 10 Favour from Prince Gloin] Prince Gloin will go out and slay "A beast that is physically mighty like a mammoth or Stonetusk but more so". Gain mats. It would be ridiculous for you to ask your King to go gallivanting around the North to find something for you to make a Rune out of, but a Prince or Princess? Well, that's just you helping them build their legend through the slaying of monsters and aiding their elders. The rarer the monster the greater the reward, but it may take longer to find. Monsters slain by Gloin provide more material by virtue of being the entire beast rather than just ordering a singular organ.

[X] Plan The Smith's Hammer and Retinue Recruitment
-[X] [Simple] A Company Equipped: [Cost: 4 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. Gain retinue equipped to the highest practical standard, all future members will receive the same upon recruitment. As your recruits are all Dwarfs well into their third century of life they do not lack for equipment. With the Gromril Mine and the abundance of Runesmiths they are arguably better equipped than the average longbeard their age, but you can do better. As their patron, you have a responsibility to see them armed to the best that you can feasibly manage. A paltry cost considering these dwarfs have sworn themselves utterly to you by your own reckoning. Of course, as with most things, there was the element of prestige involved as well. As the armour and gear a patron could equip their retainers with was a reflection of their status as well as, more importantly to you, a means of keeping them alive. And with you being a Runelord, the oldest Runelord in the Far North even, that bar is set very high indeed, both by yourself and outsiders. 2 Apprentice Actions.
--[X] Optional Write in: Adding Hearthstones to their equipment, such as gloves so that they touch the injured with warm hands or other suitably thematic items.
-[X] [Difficult] Write in, Zharrgral Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action]. Productivity Like No Other will proc. Apply optional structural materials here. The plan in your mind burns to be made. A hammer to sunder foes and craft wonders. Its head Adamant and blazing with runes, and its haft good Silver Wutroth reinforced with Adamant rings studded with sapphires and wrapped in Elder Shardwyrm hide for grip. 4 Actions. Wear Barak Azamar while forging it.
--[X] Theme: Combo, Makerstrike: [Master Rune of Conduction (Elder Magma Dragon's Blood), Rune of Smednir (any suitable upgrade materials), Rune of Thungni (any suitable upgrade materials)]
-[X] Recruitment Drive: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Gain 1d5 +5 bonus dice per action to Recruitment Dice (1d10 +5). You have retainers, dwarfs who understand what it takes to become part of your Hearthguard, send them out to see if they can lend their expertise more and skill to improve the growth of your retinue. 1 Retainer Action.
-[X] ORDER: T3 Pegasus Heart
--[X] Kingly Expedite: 15 Favor.
-[X] Princely Hunting: [Cost: 10 Favour from Prince Gloin] Prince Gloin will go out and slay "A beast that is physically mighty like a mammoth or Stonetusk but more so". Gain mats. It would be ridiculous for you to ask your King to go gallivanting around the North to find something for you to make a Rune out of, but a Prince or Princess? Well, that's just you helping them build their legend through the slaying of monsters and aiding their elders. The rarer the monster the greater the reward, but it may take longer to find. Monsters slain by Gloin provide more material by virtue of being the entire beast rather than just ordering a singular organ.
 
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[X] Plan The Smith's Hammer and Retinue Aid

If the Guard grows on its own, I feel like rep building is more valuable than recruitment.
 
[X] Plan Zharrgral and Company Equipment
-[X] [Simple] A Company Equipped: [Cost: 4 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. Gain retinue equipped to the highest practical standard, all future members will receive the same upon recruitment. 2 Actions + 2 Apprentice Actions
-[X] [Difficult] Write in, Zharrgral Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action]. Productivity Like No Other will proc. Apply optional structural materials here. 2 actions.
-[X] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. You formed these Hearthguard to combat all the ills that befall the dwarfen people. Send them out, render aid, earn goodwill and spread the word of your retainers and their stated mission beyond the borders of Kraka Drakk 1 Retainer Action.

Remember all that stuff from the Runelord meeting about doing what's got the greatest impact, and not just monofocussing on one thing over another? I don't think Zharrgral is going to benefit that much from a massive 5 overwork into it; that's more likely to give us progress elsewhere (like into rune metal pt. 5) than it is to improve the final product itself. 2 overwork ought to be plenty enough. And the same goes for Company Equipped; we're going to be building more equipment for them over time, so "only" one overflow ought to be good enough for now.

Basically, this plan compresses this turn and next turn's planned actions into only one turn, while still retaining a healthy dose of overwork. And it frees us up next turn to, well, do more stuff!
 
Derpmind said:
[X] Plan Zharrgral and Company Equipment
-[X] [Simple] A Company Equipped: [Cost: 4 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. Gain retinue equipped to the highest practical standard, all future members will receive the same upon recruitment. 2 Actions + 2 Apprentice Actions
-[X] [Difficult] Write in, Zharrgral Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action]. Productivity Like No Other will proc. Apply optional structural materials here. 2 actions.
-[X] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. You formed these Hearthguard to combat all the ills that befall the dwarfen people. Send them out, render aid, earn goodwill and spread the word of your retainers and their stated mission beyond the borders of Kraka Drakk 1 Retainer Action.

Remember all that stuff from the Runelord meeting about doing what's got the greatest impact, and not just monofocussing on one thing over another? I don't think Zharrgral is going to benefit that much from a massive 5 overwork into it; that's more likely to give us progress elsewhere (like into rune metal pt. 5) than it is to improve the final product itself. 2 overwork ought to be plenty enough. And the same goes for Company Equipped; we're going to be building more equipment for them over time, so "only" one overflow ought to be good enough for now.

Basically, this plan compresses this turn and next turn's planned actions into only one turn, while still retaining a healthy dose of overwork. And it frees us up next turn to, well, do more stuff!
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The thing is, the better we make Zharrgal the stronger all of these benefits get:

-The more powerful we make it the more certain we can be that the set it will eventually be a part of with Barak Azamar will be more powerful.
-The more powerful a weapon and crafting tool it will be, which will be helpful if we need to smack something with it for a long time.
-The better a tool of crafting it is, the longer our works will last and the more they will benefit from it.
-The better a tool of crafting it is, and thus the better of a quality boost it gives, the more it synergizes with the Soul of the Earth quality boost, overall increasing the quality of our work as a baseline.

Those benefits still exist but in a lesser state if we do something like this, and trading away the maximum in these possibilities for being able to do a few more projects I find not to adhere to the ideas Snorri was espousing.
 
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BungieONI said:
This is flat out incorrect. The cap is tied to qualities of the item, such as what it is made out of, not just the amount of actions it has at base and overflow is explicitly not wasted. Past the threshold it is pushed into narrative benefits.
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Doesn't change the fact that the base amount of AP heavily influences the cap on overflow.

It being wasted are soulcake's words, not mine, at least IIRC.
 
BungieONI said:
The thing is, the better we make Zharrgal the stronger all of these benefits get:
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Only if it has enough overwork capacity for any of that. While we're all happy with Trollslayer, I think in retrospect it's quite obvious that one of its overwork actions ended up going into Rune Metal Pt.3 rather than improving the end product. Zharrgal has a decent combo but nothing game changing; it sounds like it'll improve our work but won't be so big that it'll make any quest mechanic impact. (And it doesn't sound like it'll tie into Barak Azamar either, to my ear at least.) I think 5 overwork actions is almost certain to be more than it's maximum overwork capacity.
 
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Wait! We forgot to add the hunting!

[X] Plan The Smith's Hammer and Retinue Aid, with Hunting
-[X] [Simple] A Company Equipped: [Cost: 4 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. Gain retinue equipped to the highest practical standard, all future members will receive the same upon recruitment. As your recruits are all Dwarfs well into their third century of life they do not lack for equipment. With the Gromril Mine and the abundance of Runesmiths they are arguably better equipped than the average longbeard their age, but you can do better. As their patron, you have a responsibility to see them armed to the best that you can feasibly manage. A paltry cost considering these dwarfs have sworn themselves utterly to you by your own reckoning. Of course, as with most things, there was the element of prestige involved as well. As the armour and gear a patron could equip their retainers with was a reflection of their status as well as, more importantly to you, a means of keeping them alive. And with you being a Runelord, the oldest Runelord in the Far North even, that bar is set very high indeed, both by yourself and outsiders. 2 Apprentice Actions.
--[X] Optional Write in: Adding Hearthstones to their equipment, such as gloves so that they touch the injured with warm hands or other suitably thematic items.
-[X] [Difficult] Write in, Zharrgral Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action]. Productivity Like No Other will proc. Apply optional structural materials here. The plan in your mind burns to be made. A hammer to sunder foes and craft wonders. Its head Adamant and blazing with runes, and its haft good Silver Wutroth reinforced with Adamant rings studded with sapphires and wrapped in Elder Shardwyrm hide for grip. 4 Actions.
--[X] Theme: Combo, Makerstrike: [Master Rune of Conduction (Elder Magma Dragon's Blood), Rune of Smednir (any suitable upgrade materials), Rune of Thungni (any suitable upgrade materials)]
-[X] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. You formed these Hearthguard to combat all the ills that befall the dwarfen people. Send them out, render aid, earn goodwill and spread the word of your retainers and their stated mission beyond the borders of Kraka Drakk. 1 Retainer Action.
-[X] ORDER: T3 Pegasus Heart
--[X] Kingly Expedite: 15 Favor.
-[X] Princely Hunting: [Cost: 10 Favour from Prince Gloin] Prince Gloin will go out and slay "A beast that is physically mighty like a mammoth or Stonetusk but more so". Gain mats. It would be ridiculous for you to ask your King to go gallivanting around the North to find something for you to make a Rune out of, but a Prince or Princess? Well, that's just you helping them build their legend through the slaying of monsters and aiding their elders. The rarer the monster the greater the reward, but it may take longer to find. Monsters slain by Gloin provide more material by virtue of being the entire beast rather than just ordering a singular organ.
 
Derpmind said:
Only if it has enough overwork capacity for any of that. While we're all happy with Trollslayer, I think in retrospect it's quite obvious that one of its overwork actions ended up going into Rune Metal Pt.3 rather than improving the end product. Zharrgal has a decent combo but nothing game changing; it sounds like it'll improve our work but won't be so big that it'll make any quest mechanic impact. I think 5 overwork actions is almost certain to be more than it's maximum overwork capacity.
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Consider that we put 6 effective actions actions into Trollslayer. If your theory is right then it had a capacity of 5 actions.

Zharrgal is made of superior metal, that boosts its runes, has a combo comparable to Trollslayer which is getting upgraded with Elder Magma Dragon Blood, and is getting Soul of the Earth applied.

BelligerentGnu said:
Wait! We forgot to add the hunting!

[X] Plan The Smith's Hammer and Retinue Aid, with Hunting
-[X] [Simple] A Company Equipped: [Cost: 4 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. Gain retinue equipped to the highest practical standard, all future members will receive the same upon recruitment. As your recruits are all Dwarfs well into their third century of life they do not lack for equipment. With the Gromril Mine and the abundance of Runesmiths they are arguably better equipped than the average longbeard their age, but you can do better. As their patron, you have a responsibility to see them armed to the best that you can feasibly manage. A paltry cost considering these dwarfs have sworn themselves utterly to you by your own reckoning. Of course, as with most things, there was the element of prestige involved as well. As the armour and gear a patron could equip their retainers with was a reflection of their status as well as, more importantly to you, a means of keeping them alive. And with you being a Runelord, the oldest Runelord in the Far North even, that bar is set very high indeed, both by yourself and outsiders. 2 Apprentice Actions.
--[X] Optional Write in: Adding Hearthstones to their equipment, such as gloves so that they touch the injured with warm hands or other suitably thematic items.
-[X] [Difficult] Write in, Zharrgral Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action]. Productivity Like No Other will proc. Apply optional structural materials here. The plan in your mind burns to be made. A hammer to sunder foes and craft wonders. Its head Adamant and blazing with runes, and its haft good Silver Wutroth reinforced with Adamant rings studded with sapphires and wrapped in Elder Shardwyrm hide for grip. 4 Actions.
--[X] Theme: Combo, Makerstrike: [Master Rune of Conduction (Elder Magma Dragon's Blood), Rune of Smednir (any suitable upgrade materials), Rune of Thungni (any suitable upgrade materials)]
-[X] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. You formed these Hearthguard to combat all the ills that befall the dwarfen people. Send them out, render aid, earn goodwill and spread the word of your retainers and their stated mission beyond the borders of Kraka Drakk. 1 Retainer Action.
-[X] ORDER: T3 Pegasus Heart
--[X] Kingly Expedite: 15 Favor.
-[X] Princely Hunting: [Cost: 10 Favour from Prince Gloin] Prince Gloin will go out and slay "A beast that is physically mighty like a mammoth or Stonetusk but more so". Gain mats. It would be ridiculous for you to ask your King to go gallivanting around the North to find something for you to make a Rune out of, but a Prince or Princess? Well, that's just you helping them build their legend through the slaying of monsters and aiding their elders. The rarer the monster the greater the reward, but it may take longer to find. Monsters slain by Gloin provide more material by virtue of being the entire beast rather than just ordering a singular organ.
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I'll just edit it into my plans. No worries.
 
Derpmind said:
Only if it has enough overwork capacity for any of that. While we're all happy with Trollslayer, I think in retrospect it's quite obvious that one of its overwork actions ended up going into Rune Metal Pt.3 rather than improving the end product. Zharrgal has a decent combo but nothing game changing; it sounds like it'll improve our work but won't be so big that it'll make any quest mechanic impact. (And it doesn't sound like it'll tie into Barak Azamar either, to my ear at least.) I think 5 overwork actions is almost certain to be more than it's maximum overwork capacity.
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Remember that all we're seeing is the base combo. It doesn't take into account additional/upgraded reagents, the boost from adamant, and it definitely doesn't tell us how it will interact with Barak Azamar. All that combo tells us is what a hammer with that combo does by itself.
 
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