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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
It's the end of an era.

I remember when just the START of the Great Incursion was weighing heavily on the questmind. Now the clean up is complete.
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And we substantially changed the timeline too. While a handful of Dawi fell to despair and the influence of Hashut, it was not entire Karaks. Theoretically, this means that the Black Orks will never be a thing. Now we need to focus on the future. And keeping the War of Vengeance from coming about. And ferreting out the Skaven. The fact that the city that they originated in had Dawi makes me think that we may actually be able to hear about it.
 
It's also worth noting, that as a Simple Request.

We can put 3 Snorri Actions into the Equipping of our Company and 2 Apprentice Actions for a total of 7 actions of effort into it and 3 overflow. If we did that it would definitely be at the absolute highest practical standard. Which is a good look I think going into Dum and means they're much less likely to suffer losses from any Sudden T4s down there.
 
BungieONI said:
It's also worth noting, that as a Simple Request.

We can put 3 Snorri Actions into the Equipping of our Company and 2 Apprentice Actions for a total of 7 actions of effort into it and 3 overflow. If we did that it would definitely be at the absolute highest practical standard. Which is a good look I think going into Dum and means they're much less likely to suffer losses from any Sudden T4s down there.
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The thing is Apprentice Actions are Apprentice Actions. They aren't going to match the quality that we can.
 
Nix's Warden said:
The thing is Apprentice Actions are Apprentice Actions. They aren't going to match the quality that we can.
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It genuinely doesn't matter because Snorri isn't silly enough to put them onto actually making any of the gear. Its for clearing out the grunt and scut work so that he can focus on being awesome, which is how it worked for the Underway jobs and other simple requests.

E: Apprentice actions when used have never detracted from the quality of the end product.

Marlin said:
@BungieONI, don't forget to assign the Apprentice Action.
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Thank you for the reminder!
 
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[] Plan The Smith's Hammer, Yorri, and Retinue Recruitment
-[] [Simple] A Company Equipped: [Cost: 4 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. Gain retinue equipped to the highest practical standard, all future members will receive the same upon recruitment. 2 apprentice actions
-- [] [Optional Write-in]: Any cosmetic changes or additions you may want added to/changed from the baseline aesthetic. Add some hearthstones in there somewhere.
-[] The Mind of Things Pt. 3: [Cost: 10 actions] Student of the Odd will proc. 1 action
--[] Prod Yorri: [Cost 1 prod] Gain 1d2+1 progress, can be taken multiple times. Master Yorri simply chuckles mysteriously at you. 2 prods
-[] [Difficult] Write in, Zharrgral Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action]. Productivity Like No Other will proc. Apply optional structural materials here. The plan in your mind burns to be made. A hammer to sunder foes and craft wonders. Its head Adamant and blazing with runes, and its haft good Silver Wutroth reinforced with Adamant rings studded with sapphires and wrapped in Elder Shardwyrm hide for grip. 3 Actions.
--[] Theme: Combo, Makerstrike: [Master Rune of Conduction (Elder Magma Dragon's Blood), Rune of Smednir (any suitable upgrade materials), Rune of Thungni (any suitable upgrade materials)]
-[] Recruitment Drive: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Gain 1d5 +5 bonus dice per action to Recruitment Dice (1d10 +5). You have retainers, dwarfs who understand what it takes to become part of your Hearthguard, send them out to see if they can lend their expertise more and skill to improve the growth of your retinue.

Yorri is here and I want to use the prods and get some progress of mind before he leaves. 2 apprentice actions on the retinue armor this turn to get it out of the way. Recruitment drive before the campaign makes sense. I also added hearthstones to the retinue armor since that kinda seems like an obvious addition and I don't think the original design had it.

Personally, I don't think it's too much of an issue going from 6 to 5 actions on the hammer so I'd prefer using the Yorri prods. Soul of the earth should do fine to get at least Trollslayer quality out of it.
 
BungieONI said:
It genuinely doesn't matter because Snorri isn't silly enough to put them onto actually making any of the gear. Its for clearing out the grunt and scut work so that he can focus on being awesome, which is how it worked for the Underway jobs and other simple requests.

E: Apprentice actions when used have never detracted from the quality of the end product.


Thank you for the reminder!
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Add some hearthstones to the armor for the retinue while you're at it lol. Narratively they're good heatwarmers and it's in the name. Can't not have them in use somewhere.
 
@BungieONI, could you have a plan that spends one action on a prod for prod? I mean you got absolutely nothing for Yorri, your plans usually win, this is the second time we have Yorri. let's make use of him if only to build up on Yorri prods.

[] Plan The Smith's Hammer and Prod Yorri for Prod
-[] [Simple] Apprentice work: [Cost: 1 apprentice action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness. Your young charges are now of an age you feel it acceptable for them to do a bit of exploration. Send your apprentices out into the hold and pick up a few tasks from whoever offers it to them. Give them a bit of experience for their upcoming trial as journeymen and let them build a reputation in the hold. You'll of course critique their work and use it as a learning experience as any good master ought to. 2 Apprentice Actions.
-[] [Difficult] Write in, Zharrgral Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action]. Productivity Like No Other will proc. Apply optional structural materials here. The plan in your mind burns to be made. A hammer to sunder foes and craft wonders. Its head Adamant and blazing with runes, and its haft good Silver Wutroth reinforced with Adamant rings studded with sapphires and wrapped in Elder Shardwyrm hide for grip. 3 Actions.
--[] Theme: Combo, Makerstrike: [Master Rune of Conduction (Elder Magma Dragon's Blood), Rune of Smednir (any suitable upgrade materials), Rune of Thungni (any suitable upgrade materials)]
-[] Prod for Prod: [Cost: 1 action] Gain x3 Yorri prods. Master Yorri is most certainly more learned and experienced than you are, but mayhaps you have something worth his time as well? You've taught a good amount, Adamant included, but there are still a few things Yorri himself is interested in. 1 Action
-[] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. You formed these Hearthguard to combat all the ills that befall the dwarfen people. Send them out, render aid, earn goodwill and spread the word of your retainers and their stated mission beyond the borders of Kraka Drakk

The below is not my plan, but it most efficiently speeds up 4 turns of work. It basically gives us Mind of things part 3 and The movement of Things Pt 3 in one turn.
[] Plan Mastery of Body and Mind
-[] Teach your apprentices: [Cost: 1 action] Locked in for 3 turns.
-[] [Simple] Apprentice work: [Cost: 1 apprentice action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness. 2 apprentice actions.
-[] Prod for Prod: [Cost: 1 action] Gain x3 Yorri prods. 2 actions.
-[] The Movement of Things Pt. 3: [Cost: 10 actions] Student of the Odd will proc. 1 action.
--[] Prod Yorri: [Cost: 1 prod] Gain 1d2+1 progress, can be taken multiple times. 4 prods.
-[] The Mind of Things Pt. 3: [Cost: 10 actions] Student of the Odd will proc. 1 action.
--[] Prod Yorri: [Cost 1 prod] Gain 1d2+1 progress, can be taken multiple times. 4 prods.
 
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Marlin said:
@BungieONI, could you have a plan that spends one action on a prod for prod? I mean you got absolutely nothing for Yorri, your plans usually win, this is the second time we have Yorri. let's make use of him if only to build up on Yorri prods.
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I don't want to do less than 4 actions on Zharrgal.

Yorri came at a bad time when we were busy, he'll be back again and we'll still have the two prods from now then and going by how its happening we'll have about 80 years. He might also still be present at the end of the Odd Places chain, in which case we might get him a little more reliably and I intend to wrap those up after Dum.

LaggPlaguedDuke said:
[] Plan The Smith's Hammer, Yorri, and Retinue Recruitment
-[] [Simple] A Company Equipped: [Cost: 4 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. Gain retinue equipped to the highest practical standard, all future members will receive the same upon recruitment. 2 apprentice actions
-- [] [Optional Write-in]: Any cosmetic changes or additions you may want added to/changed from the baseline aesthetic. Add some hearthstones in there somewhere.
-[] The Mind of Things Pt. 3: [Cost: 10 actions] Student of the Odd will proc. 1 action
--[] Prod Yorri: [Cost 1 prod] Gain 1d2+1 progress, can be taken multiple times. Master Yorri simply chuckles mysteriously at you. 2 prods
-[] [Difficult] Write in, Zharrgral Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action]. Productivity Like No Other will proc. Apply optional structural materials here. The plan in your mind burns to be made. A hammer to sunder foes and craft wonders. Its head Adamant and blazing with runes, and its haft good Silver Wutroth reinforced with Adamant rings studded with sapphires and wrapped in Elder Shardwyrm hide for grip. 3 Actions.
--[] Theme: Combo, Makerstrike: [Master Rune of Conduction (Elder Magma Dragon's Blood), Rune of Smednir (any suitable upgrade materials), Rune of Thungni (any suitable upgrade materials)]
-[] Recruitment Drive: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Gain 1d5 +5 bonus dice per action to Recruitment Dice (1d10 +5). You have retainers, dwarfs who understand what it takes to become part of your Hearthguard, send them out to see if they can lend their expertise more and skill to improve the growth of your retinue.

Yorri is here and I want to use the prods and get some progress of mind before he leaves. 2 apprentice actions on the retinue armor this turn to get it out of the way. Recruitment drive before the campaign makes sense. I also added hearthstones to the retinue armor since that kinda seems like an obvious addition and I don't think the original design had it.

Personally, I don't think it's too much of an issue going from 6 to 5 actions on the hammer so I'd prefer using the Yorri prods. Soul of the earth should do fine to get at least Trollslayer quality out of it.
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From my perspective, when we have the option to make something that is Better than Trollslayer but for crafting in a crafting focused quest, we should take it if we can.

Leon12431 said:
Can we use a prod without taking an action for the action tied with the prod?
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We must put an action into something we are using a prod on.
 
So, I'd like to recommend that we use our first action with the Hearthguard to Render Aid. As the update says, right now the Dawi of the North are waiting to see what the Hearthwardens will do.

Well then. Let's show them.
 
TempestK said:
And we substantially changed the timeline too. While a handful of Dawi fell to despair and the influence of Hashut, it was not entire Karaks. Theoretically, this means that the Black Orks will never be a thing. Now we need to focus on the future. And keeping the War of Vengeance from coming about. And ferreting out the Skaven. The fact that the city that they originated in had Dawi makes me think that we may actually be able to hear about it.
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Sure that could happen, but just as likely is that the enlarged dwarven empire that we have helped to create breaks apart due its sheer size making cultural drift damn near unavoidable and the dwarven inability to forgive and forgot perceived grudges leads to an endless escalation and finally civil war without an massive outside threat like the Elves to give them a common identity/threat to unite against. Meanwhile easier access to chaos tainted resources of the northern chaos wastes leads to a slow corruption and the rise of chaos cults, strengthened by factors like the caste-like social system or the oppression of the young and ambitious by the extreme aristocratic gerontocracy of the dwarven kingdoms. And as dwarves turn their fearsome weapons against each other and mistrust begins to rise the whispers of a harsh but strong entity begin to be heard among dwarvenkind and Hashut will rise again, stronger than ever before...

Granted I doubt it will be that depressing but all empires fall eventually and especially expansionist empires like the dwarves undergoe severe periods of contraction if not total collapse sooner or later, even without actual deities plotting their downfall...
 
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BungieONI said:
From my perspective, when we have the option to make something that is Better than Trollslayer but for crafting in a crafting focused quest, we should take it if we can.
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The amount of actions invested are not as important as narative. That's been mentioned before. Basically, you are claiming that investing 4 actions will make the crafting focus better than investing 3 actions, because more actions are invested. When that's been stated as wrong, or pointed out as possibly untrue, whichever!
 
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soulcake said:
(*New*)[ ] [Difficult] Write in, Zharrgral Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action]. Productivity Like No Other will proc. Apply optional structural materials here. The plan in your mind burns to be made. A hammer to sunder foes and craft wonders.
- [X] Theme: Combo, Makerstrike: [Master Rune of Conduction, Rune of Smednir, Rune of Thungni]
- its head Adamant and blazing with runes, and its haft good Silver Wutroth reinforced with Adamant rings studded with sapphires and wrapped in Elder Shardwyrm hide for grip
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I can't wait to go all-in on this.

This will be the hammer that Snorri not just fights with for centuries if not the rest of the quest, but also crafts everything with too.

Everything that Snorri makes from now, will be made by this. Which means that anything that Snorri makes, will be affected by how much sweat, blood and tears we put into this thing.

Which means we should make it to our utmost effort, I believe.

Furthermore... I think Zharrgal will have more 'room' for overflow than Trollslayer did. Because Trollslayer, while a fine fine axe and inspired by the idea of a meteorstrike or explosion... Zharrgal, is two things. It is the weapon of a Runelord. And it is the crafting tool of the Runelord. And not only that, but, it is not stand-alone; it's theme and origin was to 'draw and channel the power of our mountain.' So it has a lot of room to work on and to excel.

If possible, I would have loved to be able to put 5 actions into this. Alas, it is not. So instead we'll 'only' put as much effort into this as we did for Trollslayer, Stormwrath, and Barak Azamar.

But I have full confidence that Zharrgal might very well be the second greatest thing we will have forged thus far. Second only to Barak Azamar.

soulcake said:
(*New*)[ ] [Simple] A Company Equipped: [Cost: 4 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. Gain retinue equipped to the highest practical standard, all future members will receive the same upon recruitment. As your recruits are all Dwarfs well into their third century of life they do not lack for equipment. With the Gromril Mine and the abundance of Runesmiths they are arguably better equipped than the average longbeard their age, but you can do better. As their patron, you have a responsibility to see them armed to the best that you can feasibly manage. A paltry cost considering these dwarfs have sworn themselves utterly to you by your own reckoning. Of course, as with most things, there was the element of prestige involved as well. As the armour and gear a patron could equip their retainers with was a reflection of their status as well as, more importantly to you, a means of keeping them alive. And with you being a Runelord, the oldest Runelord in the Far North even, that bar is set very high indeed, both by yourself and outsiders.
- [ ] [Optional Write-in]: Any cosmetic changes or additions you may want added to/changed from the baseline aesthetic.
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Huh, 4 actions. So... just put the Apprentice actions into them here and now, probably?
- [ ] [Optional Write-in]: Any cosmetic changes or additions you may want added to/changed from the baseline aesthetic.
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If somebody can think of a neat way to add Hearthstones to it, that'd be neat, but if nothing clever or stylish comes to mind then that's fine.

Anyway. If Master Yorri somehow remains for one more turn... How do people feel about, the next turn, (not this turn, but the next turn) we spend 2 AP on A Company Equipped, and 1 AP on Movement or Mind of Things, or Zhufazul or... hmm... Actually...
soulcake said:
[ ] Understand a Master Rune: [Cost: Variable with a max of 16 actions] Student of the Odd and/or Soul of the Earth may proc. The same idea as studying any rune in theory, in practice it takes a lot longer and there's often a large chance of explosions. The action cost is dependent on a variety of factors, but the amount of similar Master Runes you know, your specialties, and even if you made the Rune being worked on can reduce the cost.
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@soulcake would it be a viable use of Yorri Prods to do "Understand a Master Rune: Master Rune of Awakening"?
 
BungieONI said:
It's also worth noting, that as a Simple Request.

We can put 3 Snorri Actions into the Equipping of our Company and 2 Apprentice Actions for a total of 7 actions of effort into it and 3 overflow. If we did that it would definitely be at the absolute highest practical standard. Which is a good look I think going into Dum and means they're much less likely to suffer losses from any Sudden T4s down there.
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That would have to be done this turn, though. Next turn is when the expedition happens, and we won't have time to make the equipment then.

We also have Yorri sticking around for another turn, which would be really lucky if we were going to do any research now. I don't have much hope we're going to use his help this turn after we neglected to do so last turn, so.
 
Marlin said:
The amount of actions invested are not as important as narative. That's been mentioned before. Basically, you are claiming that investing 4 actions will make the crafting focus better than investing 3 actions, because more actions are invested. When that's been stated as wrong, or pointed out as possibly untrue, whichever!
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Not really?

What soulcake has said is that Effort, actions, play an important roll in how well something comes out in the Rune Primer informational. He's also said that items have individual limits on the amount of overflow they can contain before it changes from mechanical into narrative benefits. Given better materials in two places (Adamant and the Dragon Blood) Zharrgal has more space than Trollslayer for overflow. I've also made narrative focused arguments before, and the narrative difference here is one of focus upon making Zharrgal the best it can be and meeting the challenge Snorri described it as during the turn 29 results or doing most of our focus on Zharrgal and something else.


Derpmind said:
That would have to be done this turn, though. Next turn is when the expedition happens, and we won't have time to make the equipment then.

We also have Yorri sticking around for another turn, which would be really lucky if we were going to do any research now. I don't have much hope we're going to use his help this turn after we neglected to do so last turn, so.
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We have four actions for turn 31. 3 can go into other stuff, and we only need 1 for Dum.
 
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I really think three actions on the hammer is enough using the left over action and the prod on mind of things sounds like it would be better and more efficient in my eyes
 
Garlak said:
If somebody can think of a neat way to add Hearthstones to it, that'd be neat, but if nothing clever or stylish comes to mind then that's fine.
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I kinda want to put hearthstones in their gloves/armor equivalent. So that everything they touch is done with the warmth of the Hearth. Similarly, a piece of cut hearthstone in the shape of the hearth on their banner over their heart as a kind of keeping the concept of what they work for close to heart and showing brazenly on their chest kind of thing.
 
[] Plan Better Tools
-[] [Simple] Apprentice work: [Cost: 1 apprentice action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness. Your young charges are now of an age you feel it acceptable for them to do a bit of exploration. Send your apprentices out into the hold and pick up a few tasks from whoever offers it to them. Give them a bit of experience for their upcoming trial as journeymen and let them build a reputation in the hold. You'll of course critique their work and use it as a learning experience as any good master ought to. 2 Apprentice Actions.
-[] [Difficult] Write in, Zharrgral Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action]. Productivity Like No Other will proc. Apply optional structural materials here. The plan in your mind burns to be made. A hammer to sunder foes and craft wonders. Its head Adamant and blazing with runes, and its haft good Silver Wutroth reinforced with Adamant rings studded with sapphires and wrapped in Elder Shardwyrm hide for grip. 2 Actions.
--[] Theme: Combo, Makerstrike: [Master Rune of Conduction (Elder Magma Dragon's Blood), Rune of Smednir (any suitable upgrade materials), Rune of Thungni (any suitable upgrade materials)]
-[] [Simple] A Company Equipped: [Cost: 4 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. Gain retinue equipped to the highest practical standard, all future members will receive the same upon recruitment. As your recruits are all Dwarfs well into their third century of life they do not lack for equipment. With the Gromril Mine and the abundance of Runesmiths they are arguably better equipped than the average longbeard their age, but you can do better. As their patron, you have a responsibility to see them armed to the best that you can feasibly manage. A paltry cost considering these dwarfs have sworn themselves utterly to you by your own reckoning. Of course, as with most things, there was the element of prestige involved as well. As the armour and gear a patron could equip their retainers with was a reflection of their status as well as, more importantly to you, a means of keeping them alive. And with you being a Runelord, the oldest Runelord in the Far North even, that bar is set very high indeed, both by yourself and outsiders. 2 actions
-[] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. You formed these Hearthguard to combat all the ills that befall the dwarfen people. Send them out, render aid, earn goodwill and spread the word of your retainers and their stated mission beyond the borders of Kraka Drakk
 
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