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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Red Bovine said:
That just comes across as pretty arrogant. Snorri may be more skilled and experienced in a number of areas there are some Dwarfs who are younger than him that are likely still better than him in areas they specialize in. It's outright noted that Valma is hundreds of years ahead of Dwarfs her age when it comes to making Gronti. Just because we have a title doesn't change the fact that we may just be outdone by people who actually specialize in certain areas.
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Not one of them has productivity as a speciality, let alone an upgrade productivity trait. Even for the one who mentions productivity as a part of their character its just narrative fluff.
I stand by what I said: "that Snorri can create Gronti's faster than any of them".

If you want to actually talk about how good the Gronti we would make would be and as for how good Valma's specialisation is... This wasn't my original point because Andmeuths was explicitly talking about the actions to build the Gronti.
Andmeuths said:
Something tells me if Valma isn't taken, the number of actions to Super Gronti Ymir will be greatly inflated,
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But I also tend to not be good at stepping out of internet arguments.
If she's three hundred years ahead of her age that puts her at about as good as we wood expect a Runelord of Snorris age to be. If hundreds means four hundred or more then she's probably better, but still probably less good than Yorri as he is much older and given that he was living alone with a horde of Gronti, probably has his own specialisation, who's more likely to teach us anything. Incidentally this is also relevant because Andmeuths was talking about an exchange of knowledge.
But its not clear if thats compared against an average Runelord who probably has one engineering speciality or doesn't specialise in Gronti.
So its a kinda meaningless comparison anyway.

But, even if I accept your assertion that she can build a better Gronti, that doesn't show that she can build one faster than us.
 
soulcake said:
Grimnir's Stone: A tablet bearing The Master Rune of Grimnir, engraved by His very axe. A gift for your actions during the Incursion? You can't say what went through His mind frankly. Even now, it glows brightly. Technically useable, but its a rather unwieldy piece of Stone truth be told and you'll be damned if anything happens to it.
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@soulcake just need to check. Not literally damned right? If we die we don't show up at the Gomril gates and Gazul bahs at us and asks what happens to his brothers rune. Right?
:V:V:V
E: The meow! What does it mean?
 
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Man, we really need to polish off that hearthstone and wutroth research. Although based on this, I strongly suspect Wutroth will just be structural. At least they're just single techs, not chains.

Edit: Also, I vote we use Suneater's hide for the leather bits of KotS's armour.
 
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BelligerentGnu said:
Man, we really need to polish off that hearthstone and wutroth research. Although based on this, I strongly suspect Wutroth will just be structural. At least they're just single techs, not chains.

Edit: Also, I vote we use Suneater's hide for the leather bits of KotS's armour.
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I think it will be as well, though ground hearthstone dust could have uses for Runes of the Furnace or Fire.
 
BungieONI said:
I think it will be as well, though ground hearthstone dust could have uses for Runes of the Furnace or Fire.
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I too think hearthstones will be active reagents - might work for runes of Valaya or fortitude as well.

You know, the addition of the vault gives me an idea. Say we commission the engineer's guild to build us a solid gromril vault, with a locking mechanism that opens by perfectly striking the correct sequence, pressure and alignment of chisel strokes to make the Rune of Thungni on it. Inscribe it with the message that only the senior Runelord of Kraka Drakk may open the vault in the event of Snorri's death, or any runelord should Kraka Drakk not have a Runelord nor any reasonable chance of getting one within a century. Inside the vault, we put a book, runed for preservation, recording how to make every rune we know and whatever other miscellaneous knowledge we have. We leave a message with relevant people letting them know the vault exists and when to open it.

Do people think this could work with dwarven culture? A runelord is certainly worthy of the knowledge, and if we rune the vault properly I can't see anyone else getting in.
 
Hmm...

We should also have xInfinite amounts of Troll-parts. You know, Tier 2 blood, heart, and stomach. Plus whatever else will be used for whatever runes. I guess just saying "xInfinite Troll-parts" would do.
 
Chimeraguard said:
More seriously, another potential major war might happen if the Eastern Dwarfs in not-Chaos Uzkulak get in contact with the Sky Titans and expand into the Mountains of Mourn. Not with the Sky Titans themselves, but if there's close relations between the Karaz Ankor and the Sky Titans, I wonder if the Dwarfs might end up fighting a war against the big Ogre Migration.
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I believe there are already canon holds along the length of the Mountains of Mourne. Many of them were indeed eaten by ogres when the migration occurred, but others apparently sealed the surface entrances and went underground.

TempestK said:
I went and looked at the post, averting the War of Vengeance is going to take some real doing. Like, near impossible from what I gathered. Does anyone have any ideas of how we might start laying the groundwork?
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We may already have. Malkeith found the Circlet of Iron while adventuring in the Chaos Wastes after clearing the Old World of chaos remnants. Here, he and Snorri will know that the Norscan holds stand, they hopefully know that Karak Uzkul still stands, and that in turn hopefully means that they will know that the various holds down the Mountains of Mourne stand. The campaigns to purge the surface around them will take a lot longer than the canon cleansing, and will end up with Malkeith near the equator on Ind and Cathay's doorstep when he finishes, rather than on the Chaos Wastes'. That may well mean that he ends up adventuring there rather than in the far north, which would avert ne of the factors that make him think he needed to take such extreme steps to rule.

Dark as Silver said:
Not one of them has productivity as a speciality, let alone an upgrade productivity trait. Even for the one who mentions productivity as a part of their character its just narrative fluff.
I stand by what I said: "that Snorri can create Gronti's faster than any of them".

If you want to actually talk about how good the Gronti we would make would be and as for how good Valma's specialisation is... This wasn't my original point because Andmeuths was explicitly talking about the actions to build the Gronti.
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I believe that he was including research actions to learn to make better Gronti, on the Mind/Movement of Things chain, as prerequisite actions on the super-gronti. The actual actions to assemble it are pretty trivial compared to that.
 
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Alratan said:
I believe that he was including research actions to learn to make better Gronti, on the Mind/Movement of Things chain, as prerequisite actions on the super-gronti. The actual actions to assemble it are pretty trivial compared to that.
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I also addressed that we wouldn't get any research out of this. Our literal best case scenario is an inspiration dice which is probably a crit result. A more likely case is that we get basically the same (mechanically, of course they're different narratively) that we did with Brynna.
Aside from how closely Runelords guard their secrets Yorri is still likely better and we all saw how it killed soulcake to setup the Dorn trade, if we expect this next update will be three of those then it won't be posted till july.
 
Dark as Silver said:
I also addressed that we wouldn't get any research out of this. Our literal best case scenario is an inspiration dice which is probably a crit result. A more likely case is that we get basically the same (mechanically, of course they're different narratively) that we did with Brynna.
Aside from how closely Runelords guard their secrets Yorri is still likely better and we all saw how it killed soulcake to setup the Dorn trade, if we expect this next update will be three of those then it won't be posted till july.
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We literally just traded for research. Our best case, which is also a very likely case, is that exactly the same thing happens and we just trade for improved knowledge of runes for gronti for knowledge of something else. I'd be happy to trade some of the Master Runes we know, for example.

She's an extreme radical, we have Standing 7 with the radicals, and radicals are most likely to be willing to trade runelore.

We have strong reason to believe that trading research is completely possible, and no reason to suppose that it isn't. We're talking about a much narrower and less complex trade than with the brotherhood of Dron, because she's much more focused in a single field. We have no reason to believe it would kill him to offer a trade when she only has one or two things to offer. The Yori prod for prod action didn't seem to kill him.
 
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Alratan said:
We literally just traded for research. Our best case, which is also a very likely case, is that exactly the same thing happens and we just trade for improved knowledge of runes for gronti for knowledge of something else. I'd be happy to trade some of the Master Runes we know, for example.
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Being inducted into a secret society that was authorised to give you some perks for joining, revealing that "Actually I know a secret this society wants a lot" and the society turning around and saying we can have all the perks if we give secret. Is a very different society to congratulating someone on a job promotion.
And still the brotherhood only gave from the list they were pre-authorised to give from, The Brotherhood still has more Runes and research that are kept secret from us which we might have seen and been able to pick from if they'd known about the smelter ahead of time.

This is just confirmation bias. You're ignoring the more similar case which was bumping into Brynna in the market place, you're ignoring that even radical runelords keep secrets, you're ignoring that Yorri is probably better at Gronti's and more inclined to teach us. Because if this is like joining the brotherhood then we might get a trade that you want.
 
Horium said:
I am a bit sad that dragon ingredients turned out to be structural, and thus almost useless other than for aesthetics :(
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Hay don't be disappointed, looking flashy as hell is a reword all on it's own. Just look at the Emperor and his gold armor.
Besides, we'd shame out ancestor if we didn't make our masterpieces look like literal pieces of art, and these materials help with our ascetics.
 
Alright, so it's a bit later than planned, but here's the second part of my thoughts on

Comprehensive Snorri Armour
​
The main goal here is to cover as many defensive angles as possible. Snorri isn't ever going to be the greatest fighter. He simply doesn't have the time to train, and for that matter he's more useful on a battlefield as an anti-mage/battlefield control caster. So, rather than going for damage dealing, we build Snorri's gear set to ensure he stays alive, moving and effective.

What we have currently:

  • [Armor] War Plate. Forged in joy, tempered in grief, worn in battle. [Master Rune of Gromril, Rune of Fortitude, Rune of Impact.]
  • [Weapon] Rune hammer. Good for hitting, good from crushing. [Master Rune of Conduction, Rune of Fire, Rune of Striking]
  • [Weapon] Rune axe. Good for cutting, for slicing. [Rune of Cleaving, Rune of Daemon Slaying, Rune of Fury.]
  • [Talisman] Ruby and Diamond Amulet. No magic shall harm me, girded in her gifts. [Rune of Spelleating, Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Warding. Combo: Conversion. The spell is broken, the spell is eaten, the power is used to shield you.]
  • [Banner] Ruby Cloak. Deep red silk, edged with purest down. A reminder of brighter, warmer days. Later engraved in grief. [Master Rune of Valaya, Rune of Sanctuary, Rune of Determination. Combo: Daemonward. You will not run, you will not hide, you will not fail again.]
Our armour is...fine, to begin with. We can do better though. Our weapons are similar, useful but having no particular plan in the runes chosen.

Our Talisman of Conversion we can definitely keep. This covers one of the major defensive necessities - anti-magic - about as well as we could expect without converting the combo to a master rune. We can do that eventually, but for now, this is fine.

The Ruby Cloak of Daemonwarding is a problem. For one, as a cherished gift from our deceased wife, it seems unlikely that Snorri would be willing to retire it and swap out for something else. (@soulcake, could you weigh in on this point?) Secondly, while it's a useful piece of equipment, it's too situational for our goal here. We can work around it if necessary, however.

So. Two paths forward, depending on whether or not Snorri would be willing to retire the Ruby Cloak.

In either case, improving our armour is our foremost priority, and we now have the perfect rune for an upgrade.

Barak Azamar, or The Eternal Bastion (Master Rune of Unyielding, Rune of Fortitude, Rune of Preservation)
  • To start with, base materials will be Adamant and Elder Frostwyrm Hide. We can use Elder Frostwyrm Horns for decoration on the helmet.
  • The Master Rune of Unyielding will use The Greedy One's Heart for a reagent. Endless energy from the heart will give this rune the kind of regeneration that regrows arms mid-battle, tirelessness like a permanent shot of adrenaline, and who knows what effects it might have on the steelskin aspect. Just about the perfect physical defense rune.
  • We add a Rune of Fortitude to defend against those things that massive regeneration might not - poison, disease and the like.
  • Lastly, because the weak point of the armour will certainly be the connective leather, a Rune of Preservation.
Edit: Further discussion has proposed swapping out the Rune of Preservation for either the Rune of Might or the Rune of the Stalwart.


The other point of commonality between the two plans is a war hammer, crafted to prevent the enemy from dogpiling us and pulling off our armour.

Rikkazendum, or Crushing Fate (Master Rune of Smiting, Rune of Might, Rune of Impact)
  • This is the effect we are going for.
  • Beyond making it of Adamant, I'm not sure which reagents might help here. We'll see what the next update provides.
Now, if we retire the Ruby Cloak, two things remain: Mental/Emotional defenses, and something to deal with any dangerous single targets that focus on us. For the first, I'd suggest

The Invictus Talisman (Master Rune of Grimnir, Rune of Stoicism, Rune of Stone)
  • The idea here is to render ourselves as immune to mental fuckery as dwarvenly possible.
  • So we use the Master Rune of Grimnir to make us able to do what we need to do, regardless of absolutely everything.
  • The Rune of Stoicism protects us from mental wounds. Even if Grimnir lets us ignore them, they still aren't good.
  • Lastly, the Rune of Stone, the first rune every runesmith learns, protects our sense of self. Like rock, you may break us, but you will never change what we are.
  • Constructing this will require we either do the "Understand a Master Rune" for the Master Rune of Grimnir, or make it as a Bannercloak. Personally, I favour the former, because the Rune of Grimnir is dangerous. Pain is there for a reason, and an army of dawi empowered to ignore it is going to have a lot more dead. We're the only ones with the super-regenerating armour that makes it worthwhile.
Lastly, an axe, designed to cripple dangerous supercombatants while help arrives from the throng.

Rikunbak, or, Kingbreaker (Master Rune of Breaking, Rune of Striking, Rune of Cleaving)
  • Snorri, as mentioned, is not a supercombatant by dwarf standards. So we give him the Rune of Striking to help him find his target.
  • Master Rune of Breaking and Rune of Cleaving serve the same purpose - when we find a weak spot, cut it as deep as possible.
  • This is the idea that feels the least developed to me, I'm sure it can be improved.
That's enough for now, I think. I'll post the alternate Keep-the-Ruby-Cloak plan depending on what soulcake says regarding Snorri's willingness to retire it.
 
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Might as well go full in and use adamant as the Rune of Preservation reagent if we want to do it. It will take time to Understand the Master Rune of Grimnir anyway.
 
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